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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 3:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The WNBA, like socialism, is a wonderful system . . . until you run out of other people's money.
CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 5:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Like I‘ve said before, having people “highly qualified” academically as WNBA president hasn’t really worked. It might be time to try something different. Passion over academics. Coming from a place where the candidate truly knows what the players are going through. As far as Borders went, her most important qualification was to be on the Duke board of regents. It was a lazy hire for Silver, most likely because he doesn’t really care to make the effort. “Oh, while we’re here.... how would you like to be the WNBA president?” Lazy, lazy, lazy.


I guess being the former Vice President of Global Community Affairs at The Coca-Cola Company, serving as president of the Atlanta City Council of Atlanta, Georgia from 2004 to 2010, and being tremendously involved in getting a WNBA team in Atlanta in the first place are not important qualifications.

As an aside, Lisa Borders was also CEO of LMB LLC, a consulting company advising clients on community reinvestment, external affairs, marketing and communications; Senior Vice President of Marketing and External Affairs with Cousins Properties Incorporated, an Atlanta-based Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT); President of the Cousins Properties Foundation; Chief Administrator for Atlanta Women’s Specialists; and VP-Operations for Healthcap Atlanta.


Shades wrote:
If the players want a say in the WNBA president, do you think they’ll comb through resumes looking for the candidate with the best academics? How naive is that? They’re going to want somebody who actually cares and wants to make a difference. No more Silver puppets.


And yet you offer up Catchings, who has next to zero qualifications for the job.


CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 5:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mark Tatum on OTL: I couldn't agree with Nneka more that we all want the same thing. We all have the same vision for our league. ... We all want this league to thrive.

https://twitter.com/ESPN_WomenHoop/status/1058047597024288768

Mark Tatum on OTL, on financial picture of WNBA: The league has sustained incredible losses from the inception 22 years ago, including a $12 million just last season. ... The players' association has all those financials. We've made everything available to them.

https://twitter.com/ESPN_WomenHoop/status/1058047902696771591

Mark Tatum on OTL: We need more fan support, we need more corporate marketing support to join us in making the investments (in the WNBA). We can't be the only one making investments.

https://twitter.com/ESPN_WomenHoop/status/1058049146043727872


Randy



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 5:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If the $12 million in losses is right* - the players could play for nothing and the league would still be losing money. Silver said in another article the cost of charter air travel would be more than all ticket sales revenue.* Seems as though the league is postured at least for not giving anything up.


*I have no way of knowing that one way or the other.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 8:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:

I guess being the former Vice President of Global Community Affairs at The Coca-Cola Company, serving as president of the Atlanta City Council of Atlanta, Georgia from 2004 to 2010, and being tremendously involved in getting a WNBA team in Atlanta in the first place are not important qualifications.

As an aside, Lisa Borders was also CEO of LMB LLC, a consulting company advising clients on community reinvestment, external affairs, marketing and communications; Senior Vice President of Marketing and External Affairs with Cousins Properties Incorporated, an Atlanta-based Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT); President of the Cousins Properties Foundation; Chief Administrator for Atlanta Women’s Specialists; and VP-Operations for Healthcap Atlanta.


I've never been interested in who is the WNBA president or think it matters much, but this employment history is airtight convincing: The peripatetic Lisa Borders either can't keep a job or never wants to really work at the one she currently holds.
PUmatty



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 8:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:

I guess being the former Vice President of Global Community Affairs at The Coca-Cola Company, serving as president of the Atlanta City Council of Atlanta, Georgia from 2004 to 2010, and being tremendously involved in getting a WNBA team in Atlanta in the first place are not important qualifications.

As an aside, Lisa Borders was also CEO of LMB LLC, a consulting company advising clients on community reinvestment, external affairs, marketing and communications; Senior Vice President of Marketing and External Affairs with Cousins Properties Incorporated, an Atlanta-based Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT); President of the Cousins Properties Foundation; Chief Administrator for Atlanta Women’s Specialists; and VP-Operations for Healthcap Atlanta.


I've never been interested in who is the WNBA president or think it matters much, but this employment history is airtight convincing: The peripatetic Lisa Borders either can't keep a job or never wants to really work at the one she currently holds.


He just listed 6 jobs for a 60-year-old. Oh, the horror.

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 9:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:

I guess being the former Vice President of Global Community Affairs at The Coca-Cola Company, serving as president of the Atlanta City Council of Atlanta, Georgia from 2004 to 2010, and being tremendously involved in getting a WNBA team in Atlanta in the first place are not important qualifications.

As an aside, Lisa Borders was also CEO of LMB LLC, a consulting company advising clients on community reinvestment, external affairs, marketing and communications; Senior Vice President of Marketing and External Affairs with Cousins Properties Incorporated, an Atlanta-based Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT); President of the Cousins Properties Foundation; Chief Administrator for Atlanta Women’s Specialists; and VP-Operations for Healthcap Atlanta.


I've never been interested in who is the WNBA president or think it matters much, but this employment history is airtight convincing: The peripatetic Lisa Borders either can't keep a job or never wants to really work at the one she currently holds.


He just listed 6 jobs for a 60-year-old. Oh, the horror.


I wouldn't call it horror. But to be more precise, Cam listed six VP and CEO jobs seemingly since 2004. That doesn't count president of the WNBA and her current CEO position. So that's, what, eight executive jobs this century. Plus she ran for mayor of Atlanta in 2009. And she surely had lots of lower level jobs before she became a VP or CEO.

I have nothing against (or for) Borders, but do question her dedication to her jobs. She's been an effective job hopper and ladder climber. Good for her. But was she good for the WNBA? I'll demur and defer to others on that.
pilight



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 10:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:

I guess being the former Vice President of Global Community Affairs at The Coca-Cola Company, serving as president of the Atlanta City Council of Atlanta, Georgia from 2004 to 2010, and being tremendously involved in getting a WNBA team in Atlanta in the first place are not important qualifications.

As an aside, Lisa Borders was also CEO of LMB LLC, a consulting company advising clients on community reinvestment, external affairs, marketing and communications; Senior Vice President of Marketing and External Affairs with Cousins Properties Incorporated, an Atlanta-based Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT); President of the Cousins Properties Foundation; Chief Administrator for Atlanta Women’s Specialists; and VP-Operations for Healthcap Atlanta.


I've never been interested in who is the WNBA president or think it matters much, but this employment history is airtight convincing: The peripatetic Lisa Borders either can't keep a job or never wants to really work at the one she currently holds.


He just listed 6 jobs for a 60-year-old. Oh, the horror.


I wouldn't call it horror. But to be more precise, Cam listed six VP and CEO jobs seemingly since 2004. That doesn't count president of the WNBA and her current CEO position. So that's, what, eight executive jobs this century. Plus she ran for mayor of Atlanta in 2009. And she surely had lots of lower level jobs before she became a VP or CEO.

I have nothing against (or for) Borders, but do question her dedication to her jobs. She's been an effective job hopper and ladder climber. Good for her. But was she good for the WNBA? I'll demur and defer to others on that.



Seems like only yesterday you touting the virtues of Carly Fiorina, who has had even more jobs than Borders since 2004...



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tfan



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 10:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:


Quote:
He just listed 6 jobs for a 60-year-old. Oh, the horror.


I wouldn't call it horror. But to be more precise, Cam listed six VP and CEO jobs seemingly since 2004.


With one exception - Vice President of Global Community Affairs at The Coca-Cola Company (a position that could have very little importance inside Coca-Cola) - she worked for very small organizations or companies. She wasn't CEO of a Fortune 500 company. And as WNBA teams demonstrate, the title of VP and CEO is readily thrown around these days, even by small enterprises.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 10:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Seems like only yesterday you touting the virtues of Carly Fiorina, who has had even more jobs than Borders since 2004...


I posted about Borders only because there was a discussion about what kind of qualifications would be best for WNBA president -- academic, Catchings, Borders, a "Silver puppet", someone who cares more? It simply occurred to me that a serial job hopper might not be the best choice. Some of the greatest sports executives in history (not the WNBA) served for decades, sometimes until their deaths.

Fiorina? How is she relevant? Yes, at one point she was among my top three favorites of the 17 Republican nominees for President, and probably my #1 choice while she was in the race. So, in a sense, I did believe that Fiorina's background and personal style would be the best for the Presidency, and that her gender would help defeat the ultimate horror, Hillary. I'm not sure Fiorina has had any jobs other than political or charitable ones since getting fired-retired from HP in 2005.
tfan



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 11:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:

Seems like only yesterday you touting the virtues of Carly Fiorina, who has had even more jobs than Borders since 2004...


But based on her wiki page, it doesn't appear that Fiorina has had a full-time job since being fired as HP CEO (she was given a $21 million termination "golden parachute") in early 2005. Only "board member" type stuff.


tfan



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 12:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:


Quote:
“What we’re discussing and fighting for is a lot more intricate than simply pay us more. It’s a lot deeper than that. It’s infrastructural. Why is this so hard for people to understand? It’s kind of business 101. You’re not going to make money off a product that you don’t invest in. We are the product. The W is the product. And the investment is not there.”


I dunno.... seems like there’s been a generous upfront investment to have the WNBA exist in the first place. It’s up to the players to produce a mainstream product everyone wants to watch. Shouldn’t any additional investment be in advertising, not necessarily into players’ pocketbooks?


Yeah, it doesn't seem like calling for higher salaries for the players as an "investment" would work with the owners. But I believe that is coming from the new larger contracts that the NBA is paying to select G league players. Contracts that it refers to as an investment. But the WNBA has no higher league for which it's players could ascend to, so I don't think the same case can be made.

The two things I could see are "pay us more or we skip the WNBA" or "pay us more because we see you are profitable and can afford it". The former would likely cause the financially weaker teams to fold. The latter (if applicable) seems like the only real reason to strike.

They could also talk about re-distributing the wages. Less for bench and more for starters. Or more for all-stars and less for non all-stars.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 9:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Investments make sense if they pay off ...

It is unclear that investing more money in the WNBA -- extending the season, spending $10 million (or whatever on marketing), adding charter flights -- will generate any significant return.

In general, labor negotiations involve workers asking for more because they don't get their fair share, and owners saying they can't share any more without going broke. Neither side wears white hats, and both sides have clear and competing agendas.

I would love to believe that WNBA owners should pay significantly more, but it's just hard for me to justify given the small crowds, low ratings and general lack of national interest in the league.

Should the players get a bump in the next CBA? Sure, but doubling or tripling their salaries -- the only option that would allow for an extension of the season and no time overseas -- seems out of the question.

Should the players get charter flights? It's just too expensive. Now if they would be willing to take a pay cut, or drop some of their health benefits, something might be worked out.

Should the owners be more transparent? Of course, but that's going to happen when a player walks into the GM's office and says "I'm playing crummy, I'm giving back 1/3 of my paycheck."

I think one of the initial hopes of the WNBA and most women's leagues was that women would be fans of watching other women play as much or more than watching men play. That, however, has not turned out to be the case, and the audience for women's sports has never reached the levels many thought it would.



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CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 11/02/18 6:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:

I guess being the former Vice President of Global Community Affairs at The Coca-Cola Company, serving as president of the Atlanta City Council of Atlanta, Georgia from 2004 to 2010, and being tremendously involved in getting a WNBA team in Atlanta in the first place are not important qualifications.

As an aside, Lisa Borders was also CEO of LMB LLC, a consulting company advising clients on community reinvestment, external affairs, marketing and communications; Senior Vice President of Marketing and External Affairs with Cousins Properties Incorporated, an Atlanta-based Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT); President of the Cousins Properties Foundation; Chief Administrator for Atlanta Women’s Specialists; and VP-Operations for Healthcap Atlanta.


I've never been interested in who is the WNBA president or think it matters much, but this employment history is airtight convincing: The peripatetic Lisa Borders either can't keep a job or never wants to really work at the one she currently holds.


He just listed 6 jobs for a 60-year-old. Oh, the horror.


I wouldn't call it horror. But to be more precise, Cam listed six VP and CEO jobs seemingly since 2004. That doesn't count president of the WNBA and her current CEO position.


At what point in my post did I say all of these were since 2004...to be even more precise?


StevenHW



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 10:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Who is the head of the WNBA Player’s Union now? It used to be Pam Wheeler, and then Evie Goldstein was there for only one season. But I do not know who the current one is.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 11/03/18 7:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

StevenHW wrote:
Who is the head of the WNBA Player’s Union now? It used to be Pam Wheeler, and then Evie Goldstein was there for only one season. But I do not know who the current one is.


Terri Jackson is the current Executive Director



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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 11/05/18 3:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
But to be more precise, Cam listed six VP and CEO jobs seemingly since 2004.


To be precise, please point out when and where I stated these jobs were since 2004 or seemingly since 2004. That did not happen.


CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 6:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

HOWARD MEGDAL:
On a different note, obviously, from your experience as President of the WNBA, I'm just wondering what you feel is the most important elements of the job for whoever they decide to hire next, and also, specifically, if you think experience in the league: we have, now, a generation of executives who have done this at the team level. You have a Carley Knox, Kristin Bernert, Kelly Krauskopf. And so, you have this group of talent to choose from, do you think that they should choose from that group?


VAL ACKERMAN:
I think the job, one, is fan interest and support in the building and on the air waves. I mean, it's about building the business up of women's professional basketball and building revenues. They come principally from three sources. It's going to come from television, ticket sales, sponsorship and licensing. So, whoever takes this on has to be adept at all of those and has to understand where those future revenue streams are going to come from, or how they're going to grow. So that's one. Secondly, I can only speak for myself, it was enormously helpful for me that I knew the game. I knew the product. I came from within the system. I'd been at the NBA for eight years.


https://mailchi.mp/909f2c40d4bc/the-ix-basketball-wednesday-with-howard-megdal-november-7-2018


Shades



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 7:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Adam Silver isn't 'disappointed' that WNBA players opted out of CBA

http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/25205141/commissioner-adam-silver-disappointed-wnba-players-opted-cba-says-nba-support-wnba-remains-firm

Quote:
"I wasn't disappointed at all," Silver said. "And in a way, the silver lining of them opting out now is that, given that [WNBA president Lisa Borders] left when she did, my sense from talking to players and listening to what they're saying publicly is that we seem to be missing a connection, a real engagement between the players and the league.”


Quote:
Silver also sees greater engagement now between the players and their union, the Women's National Basketball Players Association, led by Terri Jackson. He thinks that's a good thing.


Quote:
Silver said the WNBA has been approached by interested candidates and also has a list of people it is approaching.


Quote:
The chief operating officer's position is open now, too. So while the two jobs are not necessarily being filled in tandem, it provides the opportunity to hire people with complementary skills at around the same time.

That conceivably could leave an avenue to the president's job for a former WNBA player who might not have significant direct experience with sales and marketing, but who has other skills.


Once again, ahead of the curve.

Quote:
"Given what is at stake here, in terms of the future of the league," Silver said, "we want to make sure to properly vet all the candidates.”


Unlike the last time he did this? I think that’s what he’s saying. It would make sense that he needs to make a much better effort than last time.

Quote:
"The question is fixing sales and marketing. How do we do a better job connecting with corporations and convincing them to support the league?


Figure it out. It’s your job, considering you’re the puppet master. Do you get the sense he’s just recently thinking about all this?

Quote:
"My sense is, though, that there is no magic bullet out there. It's not as if someone's going to come in and say, 'Aha! If only we had run this commercial, then our attendance would have been up and our ratings even higher.’”


Quote:
Even if we do a modified charter program for certain special occasions, there's enormous expense involved in it. We have to create budgets and decide where we can reasonably increase expenditures."

Other aspects of travel might be more readily attainable, including TSA Pre-Check and trying to get exit-row and aisle seating -- especially after a season in which the Las Vegas Aces opted to forfeit an Aug. 3 game at the Washington Mystics after more than 24 hours of travel delays.


Quote:
The WNBA as a whole has not made a profit during its 22 seasons, even though some individual franchises have. This year, it's expected the league will lose $12 million, according to NBA projections.


So how about negotiating a higher broadcasting fee from ABC, even if it’s in lieu of a slight discount on the NBA side? That could be secret way of “investing” in the WNBA.

Quote:
"We are in engaged in some constructive conversations with some potential buyers in the New York market," Silver said. "And while it is difficult in this market, because of the dearth of midsized buildings, we think we can continue to operate for some time at the Westchester County Center and that, over time, there will be some other potential venues that could house the Liberty."


We do? Why is up to you? Has the WNBA already secretly taken over the operation of the Liberty?

Quote:
"Each league is run independently," Silver said. "And the investment that we have made over the last 22 years in the WNBA is many times greater than the investment we've made in the G League. And the G League right now is roughly a break-even proposition for the NBA and its teams.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 7:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Comment about a former player is interesting. Anybody have any ideas on a former player for Pres? (Aside from Catchings who has been discussed already.)


pilight



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 8:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
So how about negotiating a higher broadcasting fee from ABC, even if it’s in lieu of a slight discount on the NBA side? That could be secret way of “investing” in the WNBA.


Remember that the current deal was a lowball from ESPN. The W got $12M per year. A year later MLS got $75M per year despite lower ratings. The NBA did a piss poor job of negotiating for the W.



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Richard 77



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 8:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One thing to desperately change is to find a different trading card company, like Topps or Panini and make WNBA cards accessible to kids again. Rittenhouse has got to go!



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awhom111



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 10:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Shades wrote:
So how about negotiating a higher broadcasting fee from ABC, even if it’s in lieu of a slight discount on the NBA side? That could be secret way of “investing” in the WNBA.


Remember that the current deal was a lowball from ESPN. The W got $12M per year. A year later MLS got $75M per year despite lower ratings. The NBA did a piss poor job of negotiating for the W.


MLS's rights are bundled with various national team games. Also, there are multiple outlets that actually want their games, which cannot be said about the WNBA. Part of this is because the MLS has better ratings in favorable demographics, particularly younger white men, a desirable advertising target that watches very little television compared to other demographics groups. The other part is that they have a Spanish-language package, which has its own value and multiple competitors for that as well.

The NWSL deal with Lifetime eventually failed and most of their broadcasts got moved to ESPNEWS. It was a major demographic mismatch from the channel's usual audience, which led to fun ratings moments like their pregame shows wildly outrating the games themselves. It was a worthwhile effort to try Lifetime, but it's probably not the best setup for a sports property at this point. At the end of the day, it would be hard anywhere else to even match ESPN's current level of exposure for the product.
pilight



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 11:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We don't know whether multiple outlets want W games. The NBA didn't explore other options.

The MLS Spanish language package is a separate deal, for an additional $15M.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 11/08/18 7:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The number of games broadcast in the two TV contracts (WNBA, MLS) is significantly different. The $75 million MLS gets from ESPN and Fox is for a minimum of 68 regular season games plus 15 playoff games (17 done this year??). The WNBA and ESPN negotiated their $12 million March 2013 (coming off worst WNBA ESPN ratings ever in 2012) deal for up to 30 games a year, including the finals. A year later (I think both WNBA negotiations were due to the NBA/ESPN negotiations) it was re-negotiated to be $25 million. I don't know what the new contract had as far as games televised. For 2018 they were scheduled to show 13 regular season games (maybe changed) plus were ready to show 19 playoff games. Four of the playoff games were to be on ESPNNews. Disregarding that difference gets 32 possible games televised. So the price per game ends up being a lot closer than $25 million versus $75 million. $25 million/32 is $781,250 per game for ESPN to broadcast a WNBA game this year if they maximized playoff games. The highest average price ESPN/Fox could pay for an MLS game is ($75 million / 85 ) $882,352 per game . All of the regular season and over half of the MLS playoff games are also shown on a "Deportes" Spanish version of ESPN and Fox Sports 1.


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