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Shades



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PostPosted: 10/23/18 2:28 pm    ::: CBA Opt-out Deadline is Looming Reply Reply with quote

http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/25062006/deadline-looms-wnba-players-association-opt-current-collective-bargaining-agreement

Quote:
The current CBA went into effect in March 2014 and runs through October 2021. However, both the league and the union have the right to opt out now, which would terminate the agreement after the 2019 season. Either side has until Oct. 31 to exercise that provision.


Quote:
The players, many of whom are with their overseas teams, have cast their ballots through an online voting process that was open from Oct. 14-21. Terri Jackson, the WNBPA director of operations, said the votes will be reviewed and certified.


Quote:
If the players opt out, it will not impact the 2019 season. But a new CBA would need to be in place before the 2020 season, which is also an Olympic year.


Quote:
The WNBA will be replacing the bulk of its leadership. In light of that, Jackson said the union offered to extend the opt-out date past Oct. 31, possibly giving the league a chance to get a president in place before a decision was made. WNBA officials declined the extension.

Jackson also requested the players have some substantive input on the next WNBA president, such as meeting with the finalists for the job. She said league officials indicated to her it was open to that.


If the players want a say who becomes president, I could see that helping a candidate like Catchings.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 10/23/18 2:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm sure the players would like a say in who they'll be negotiating with



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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 10/23/18 3:49 pm    ::: Re: CBA Opt-out Deadline is Looming Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
If the players want a say who becomes president, I could see that helping a candidate like Catchings.


In April 2017, Catchings was named Director of Player Programs and Franchise Development for Pacers Sports & Entertainment.

I am not sure 1.5 years in that capacity qualifies her to to be the President of the WNBA.

Perhaps a role in the front office would be a good fit for Catchings, but outside of name recognition, what are her qualifications for the position of President?


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PostPosted: 10/24/18 5:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howard Megdal (High Post Hoops) weighs in:

Quote:
First, the WNBPA. As the year's gone on, what we haven't heard from Terri Jackson on down is anything approaching a straightforward, easy-to-understand set of asks, either general or specific. This is a mistake on two fronts, in my opinion. One, it makes it difficult to rally the players around a set of easily digestible improvements to their working conditions. Two, it makes it hard for the public to get behind the players, and even easier for critics to incorrectly define and then knock down those strawman demands from the players.


Quote:
As for the league, it continues to make a distinction between the money it spends on the WNBA and the G League, for instance. The former is treated as losses, the latter as investment. And while I have long complained about the economic problem inherent in measuring women's sports against men's sports purely by economic outcomes—that is to say, looking at revenue without evaluating how much is invested in the front end—the reverse is, of course, true as well.


Quote:
To the NBA's enormous credit, the WNBA is very much part of the overall fabric of the NBA, just as the G League is, more with each passing year. So every time the NBA tries to separate the two, treating the G League like a part of the league and the WNBA as some black sheep that should be grateful for whatever losses the league incurs on its behalf, it sends a message that is unhelpful at best, and ignores the remarkable benefits the league has realized from its significant investment over the first two decades of the league as well.


https://mailchi.mp/496033f87cba/the-ix-basketball-wednesday-with-howard-megdal-october-24-2018


Randy



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PostPosted: 10/24/18 8:27 pm    ::: Re: CBA Opt-out Deadline is Looming Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Shades wrote:
If the players want a say who becomes president, I could see that helping a candidate like Catchings.


In April 2017, Catchings was named Director of Player Programs and Franchise Development for Pacers Sports & Entertainment.

I am not sure 1.5 years in that capacity qualifies her to to be the President of the WNBA.

Perhaps a role in the front office would be a good fit for Catchings, but outside of name recognition, what are her qualifications for the position of President?


She might have the only attribute that matters - wanting the job. Seems like the WBBA pres. Is unlikely to ever be successful. Who would want the Job?


Shades



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PostPosted: 10/24/18 9:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Like I‘ve said before, having people “highly qualified” academically as WNBA president hasn’t really worked. It might be time to try something different. Passion over academics. Coming from a place where the candidate truly knows what the players are going through. As far as Borders went, her most important qualification was to be on the Duke board of regents. It was a lazy hire for Silver, most likely because he doesn’t really care to make the effort. “Oh, while we’re here.... how would you like to be the WNBA president?” Lazy, lazy, lazy.

If the players want a say in the WNBA president, do you think they’ll comb through resumes looking for the candidate with the best academics? How naive is that? They’re going to want somebody who actually cares and wants to make a difference. No more Silver puppets.



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 10/25/18 12:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Would the WNBA players agree not to opt out of the CBA if Catchings were named president? That is the only way I could see her getting the job. The president is the mouthpiece of ownership. Installing Catchings could be good PR but I don't see her working in that role. If she were given the position she would be shadowed by someone else who would be directly accountable to both the WNBA owners and to the NBA.


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PostPosted: 10/31/18 10:34 am    ::: Re: CBA Opt-out Deadline is Looming Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/25062006/deadline-looms-wnba-players-association-opt-current-collective-bargaining-agreement

Quote:
The current CBA went into effect in March 2014 and runs through October 2021. However, both the league and the union have the right to opt out now, which would terminate the agreement after the 2019 season. Either side has until Oct. 31 to exercise that provision.




Looks like today is the day that the decision is supposed to be announced. With all the talk, tweets, posts, etc being made by the players it would be pretty shocking if they didn't opt out.


toad455



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PostPosted: 10/31/18 11:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

curious if there will an actual press release about the players opting out or if it'll just be someone tweeting that they've opted out today? Still early in the day.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 10/31/18 11:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I guess if they don't opt out then there will just be nothing said anywhere. I see nothing yet on their twitter account or web page.


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 10/31/18 11:30 am    ::: Re: CBA Opt-out Deadline is Looming Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Shades wrote:
http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/25062006/deadline-looms-wnba-players-association-opt-current-collective-bargaining-agreement

Quote:
The current CBA went into effect in March 2014 and runs through October 2021. However, both the league and the union have the right to opt out now, which would terminate the agreement after the 2019 season. Either side has until Oct. 31 to exercise that provision.




Looks like today is the day that the decision is supposed to be announced. With all the talk, tweets, posts, etc being made by the players it would be pretty shocking if they didn't opt out.

When there's an opt-out in these things it's just generally pretty likely that the CBA is going to end there. Usually one side or the other feels like they should be doing better than they've found themselves doing under the deal in the previous years.

Considering all the public talk about their financial position in the last year, it'll be pretty telling about what the players saw in the numbers they were given by the league if they don't opt out. It'd be a pretty loud statement of "shit, maybe what we're getting right now is actually about the best we can hope for and have the league continue to actually exist".



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pilight



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PostPosted: 10/31/18 11:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The players have been unhappy with this deal from day one. They canned the head of the union Pam Wheeler, right after it was finalized.



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PostPosted: 10/31/18 12:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
The players have been unhappy with this deal from day one. They canned the head of the union Pam Wheeler, right after it was finalized.


Are you trying to say the players’ vote didn’t matter, or Wheeler didn’t negotiate well enough and they felt they had no choice?



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Shades



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PostPosted: 10/31/18 12:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silver said in a recent article that chartered flights “aren’t in the cards”, so I’m seeing minor concessions at best in a new CBA. Maybe increase the cap about $10K and increase individual max about $2K. I would push for a guarantee of no compacted season like the last one (which probably created a lot of the recent dissension). Limit it to something like to a minimum 100-day season rather than the 90-day of this past season. Consider opening up Mondays for play, if the players will think it’ll help. Also, I would look into dropping the core limit from 4 to 2. Maybe drop the time to RFA from 4 years to 3.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 10/31/18 3:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Looks like ESPN got it wrong. Tomorrow is the day - not today according to the CBA:

Expiration Date.
This Agreement shall be effective from March 5, 2014 and shall continue in full force and effect through October 31, 2021 or, if later, on the day following the final playoff game of the 2021 Season; provided that the WNBA and the Players Association shall each have the option, exercisable by providing written notice on or before November 1, 2018, to terminate this Agreement effective on October 31, 2019 or, if later, on the day following the final playoff game of the 2019 Season.


toad455



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PostPosted: 10/31/18 4:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

it's been mentioned that the WNBAPA will make an announcement tomorrow.




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Randy



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 10:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here we are - deja vu all over again. Today is the day. Smile Unless it's not.


adamj95



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 11:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sounds like they’re opting out.



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Coyotes



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 11:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yup. Twitter has tweets saying they’re opting out—High Post Hoops.


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PostPosted: 11/01/18 11:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Why WNBA players are opting out of their CBA

https://www.sbnation.com/wnba/2018/11/1/18050302/wnba-players-opt-out-cba


Quote:
“We believe in women, we believe in the WNBA, we believe in the WNBPA, and we believe that, wherever the finish line is for this movement that we’re a part of…… we’re just not there yet,” WNBA Players Association president Nneka Ogwumike wrote in an essay on The Players Tribune. “We’re opting out because women’s basketball’s potential is infinite. We’re opting out because there’s still a lot more work to be done. And we’re betting on ourselves to do it.”


Quote:
“What we’re discussing and fighting for is a lot more intricate than simply pay us more. It’s a lot deeper than that. It’s infrastructural. Why is this so hard for people to understand? It’s kind of business 101. You’re not going to make money off a product that you don’t invest in. We are the product. The W is the product. And the investment is not there.”


I dunno.... seems like there’s been a generous up front investment to have the WNBA exist in the first place. It’s up to the players to produce a mainstream product everyone wants to watch. Shouldn’t any additional investment be in advertising, not necessarily into players’ pocketbooks?

Quote:
The league’s leading scorer, Liz Cambage, provided SB Nation a laundry list of non-pay items she’d like to see improved. The list included: marketing around the stars, marketing the teams like teams instead of billboards, spacing out the schedule, and improved travel conditions.


I don’t know why Cambage is writing out demands. Does she feel like a representative of the WNBA now because she recently achieved a record scoring game? I’m a little surprised she didn’t say anything about the refereeing. One thing about Cambage. She’s not content unless she’s complaining about something.

Quote:
After three seasons in charge, Borders left her post to become the CEO of Time’s Up in early October. It came to the surprise of many, as Borders was well respected by the players.


She was? I thought the players now wanting a say in who is president would reflect poorly in Borders.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 12:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If you feel that any deal will be an improvement on the deal you have, opting out makes sense -- and that's the impression I get.

The only risk is that you wind up with something worse, and given the economic climate, that seems unlikely.



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 12:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think it's a good thing the players opted out. An increase in the salary cap would be good--don't know about tying it to revenue, as is revenue goes down the owners could then lower the cap. Increasing max and rookie values. Charter flights aren't going to happen---at least not in this and likely not the next CBA.

Phasing in an increase in the percentage of basketball related revenue that goes to the players is something I would hope the players fight for.

A longer season needs to happen--34 games is just WAY too short--this isn't soccer.

Hopefully both the players and owners will act in good faith and sometime next year we'll have a CBA. At least this won't have any bearing on the 2019 season.


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PostPosted: 11/01/18 1:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here’s Ogwumike speaking on the opt out to the Player’s Tribune

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/nneka-ogwumike-wnba-cba-bet-on-women

Reading this, it doesn’t sound too demanding. She said she wants more transparency on what the owners make. So instead of being grateful to the owners for keeping the league going despite it not being a great investment, there’s this sense that the owners must be cheating them. I dunno.... doesn’t the trend of some owners wanting to sell give some indication that they’re not making money? Ownership of Ogwumike’s team just changed hands not too long ago.

She also spent a nice chunk of the article talking about how the seating isn’t comfortable on airlines. I don’t see why that needs to be a CBA item. Can’t the team rearrange tickets so the taller players get the aisle seats? I guess I don’t get that one either.



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 1:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hawkeye wrote:
A longer season needs to happen--34 games is just WAY too short--this isn't soccer.

When are you going to play these games? Over half the league still makes most of their money overseas, and often miss chunks of preseason due to an overlap (or get barely five minutes of rest between the two seasons at either end). Also, the players are already complaining about the compactness of the schedule and the travel demands caused by it (so shoving more games into the same space of time doesn't seem viable).

On top of that, the league's only going to want more games if the teams actually make money from each one. The TV deal isn't going to go up if they play 40 instead of 34, and neither are most sponsorship deals. Are the players going to play more games for the same money they're already working for? Because if they're not, where's the extra money coming from? I really doubt we're going up from 34 - I don't see where the appetite for it would be, or the room.



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 3:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It boils down to higher salaries. If they are making a decent wage where they don't have to go overseas, then it makes a longer season possible. If the players made more than 22% of basketball related revenue, salaries would go up and more of them wouldn't have to go overseas, so you get a longer season. A longer season means more ticket revenue, concession revenue, parking revenue, more games available for a TV package.

I'm not saying jump from 34 to 82 in 2020, but 34 games is and always has been too short of the season. It's seen in some circles as not really being a legit season length. Though phasing up to say 50 or 60 games and running the season with the NBA could work. Yes, there would be competition for eyeball and dollars with the NBA, but if the NBA really got serious about investing in the league and not just treating it like a rounding error in their marketing budget, perhaps it could work. Even staying with starting in April and playing through to August/September with 3 games a week can get you 60 games.

This is all predicated on the NBA being a willing partner in growing the league. The teams need to do their part, but there needs to be a much higher investment from the NBA in both salaries and marketing to both the male 18-34 demographic as well as to women and LGBT community.

The NBA shot the WNBA in the foot many years ago and put the W about 20-years behind where they should be. It's fixable, if the parties involved really want to fix it.


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PostPosted: 11/01/18 3:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The WNBA, like socialism, is a wonderful system . . . until you run out of other people's money.
CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 5:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Like I‘ve said before, having people “highly qualified” academically as WNBA president hasn’t really worked. It might be time to try something different. Passion over academics. Coming from a place where the candidate truly knows what the players are going through. As far as Borders went, her most important qualification was to be on the Duke board of regents. It was a lazy hire for Silver, most likely because he doesn’t really care to make the effort. “Oh, while we’re here.... how would you like to be the WNBA president?” Lazy, lazy, lazy.


I guess being the former Vice President of Global Community Affairs at The Coca-Cola Company, serving as president of the Atlanta City Council of Atlanta, Georgia from 2004 to 2010, and being tremendously involved in getting a WNBA team in Atlanta in the first place are not important qualifications.

As an aside, Lisa Borders was also CEO of LMB LLC, a consulting company advising clients on community reinvestment, external affairs, marketing and communications; Senior Vice President of Marketing and External Affairs with Cousins Properties Incorporated, an Atlanta-based Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT); President of the Cousins Properties Foundation; Chief Administrator for Atlanta Women’s Specialists; and VP-Operations for Healthcap Atlanta.


Shades wrote:
If the players want a say in the WNBA president, do you think they’ll comb through resumes looking for the candidate with the best academics? How naive is that? They’re going to want somebody who actually cares and wants to make a difference. No more Silver puppets.


And yet you offer up Catchings, who has next to zero qualifications for the job.


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PostPosted: 11/01/18 5:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mark Tatum on OTL: I couldn't agree with Nneka more that we all want the same thing. We all have the same vision for our league. ... We all want this league to thrive.

https://twitter.com/ESPN_WomenHoop/status/1058047597024288768

Mark Tatum on OTL, on financial picture of WNBA: The league has sustained incredible losses from the inception 22 years ago, including a $12 million just last season. ... The players' association has all those financials. We've made everything available to them.

https://twitter.com/ESPN_WomenHoop/status/1058047902696771591

Mark Tatum on OTL: We need more fan support, we need more corporate marketing support to join us in making the investments (in the WNBA). We can't be the only one making investments.

https://twitter.com/ESPN_WomenHoop/status/1058049146043727872


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PostPosted: 11/01/18 5:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If the $12 million in losses is right* - the players could play for nothing and the league would still be losing money. Silver said in another article the cost of charter air travel would be more than all ticket sales revenue.* Seems as though the league is postured at least for not giving anything up.


*I have no way of knowing that one way or the other.


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PostPosted: 11/01/18 8:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:

I guess being the former Vice President of Global Community Affairs at The Coca-Cola Company, serving as president of the Atlanta City Council of Atlanta, Georgia from 2004 to 2010, and being tremendously involved in getting a WNBA team in Atlanta in the first place are not important qualifications.

As an aside, Lisa Borders was also CEO of LMB LLC, a consulting company advising clients on community reinvestment, external affairs, marketing and communications; Senior Vice President of Marketing and External Affairs with Cousins Properties Incorporated, an Atlanta-based Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT); President of the Cousins Properties Foundation; Chief Administrator for Atlanta Women’s Specialists; and VP-Operations for Healthcap Atlanta.


I've never been interested in who is the WNBA president or think it matters much, but this employment history is airtight convincing: The peripatetic Lisa Borders either can't keep a job or never wants to really work at the one she currently holds.
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PostPosted: 11/01/18 8:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:

I guess being the former Vice President of Global Community Affairs at The Coca-Cola Company, serving as president of the Atlanta City Council of Atlanta, Georgia from 2004 to 2010, and being tremendously involved in getting a WNBA team in Atlanta in the first place are not important qualifications.

As an aside, Lisa Borders was also CEO of LMB LLC, a consulting company advising clients on community reinvestment, external affairs, marketing and communications; Senior Vice President of Marketing and External Affairs with Cousins Properties Incorporated, an Atlanta-based Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT); President of the Cousins Properties Foundation; Chief Administrator for Atlanta Women’s Specialists; and VP-Operations for Healthcap Atlanta.


I've never been interested in who is the WNBA president or think it matters much, but this employment history is airtight convincing: The peripatetic Lisa Borders either can't keep a job or never wants to really work at the one she currently holds.


He just listed 6 jobs for a 60-year-old. Oh, the horror.

Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


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PostPosted: 11/01/18 9:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:

I guess being the former Vice President of Global Community Affairs at The Coca-Cola Company, serving as president of the Atlanta City Council of Atlanta, Georgia from 2004 to 2010, and being tremendously involved in getting a WNBA team in Atlanta in the first place are not important qualifications.

As an aside, Lisa Borders was also CEO of LMB LLC, a consulting company advising clients on community reinvestment, external affairs, marketing and communications; Senior Vice President of Marketing and External Affairs with Cousins Properties Incorporated, an Atlanta-based Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT); President of the Cousins Properties Foundation; Chief Administrator for Atlanta Women’s Specialists; and VP-Operations for Healthcap Atlanta.


I've never been interested in who is the WNBA president or think it matters much, but this employment history is airtight convincing: The peripatetic Lisa Borders either can't keep a job or never wants to really work at the one she currently holds.


He just listed 6 jobs for a 60-year-old. Oh, the horror.


I wouldn't call it horror. But to be more precise, Cam listed six VP and CEO jobs seemingly since 2004. That doesn't count president of the WNBA and her current CEO position. So that's, what, eight executive jobs this century. Plus she ran for mayor of Atlanta in 2009. And she surely had lots of lower level jobs before she became a VP or CEO.

I have nothing against (or for) Borders, but do question her dedication to her jobs. She's been an effective job hopper and ladder climber. Good for her. But was she good for the WNBA? I'll demur and defer to others on that.
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PostPosted: 11/01/18 10:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:

I guess being the former Vice President of Global Community Affairs at The Coca-Cola Company, serving as president of the Atlanta City Council of Atlanta, Georgia from 2004 to 2010, and being tremendously involved in getting a WNBA team in Atlanta in the first place are not important qualifications.

As an aside, Lisa Borders was also CEO of LMB LLC, a consulting company advising clients on community reinvestment, external affairs, marketing and communications; Senior Vice President of Marketing and External Affairs with Cousins Properties Incorporated, an Atlanta-based Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT); President of the Cousins Properties Foundation; Chief Administrator for Atlanta Women’s Specialists; and VP-Operations for Healthcap Atlanta.


I've never been interested in who is the WNBA president or think it matters much, but this employment history is airtight convincing: The peripatetic Lisa Borders either can't keep a job or never wants to really work at the one she currently holds.


He just listed 6 jobs for a 60-year-old. Oh, the horror.


I wouldn't call it horror. But to be more precise, Cam listed six VP and CEO jobs seemingly since 2004. That doesn't count president of the WNBA and her current CEO position. So that's, what, eight executive jobs this century. Plus she ran for mayor of Atlanta in 2009. And she surely had lots of lower level jobs before she became a VP or CEO.

I have nothing against (or for) Borders, but do question her dedication to her jobs. She's been an effective job hopper and ladder climber. Good for her. But was she good for the WNBA? I'll demur and defer to others on that.



Seems like only yesterday you touting the virtues of Carly Fiorina, who has had even more jobs than Borders since 2004...



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PostPosted: 11/01/18 10:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:


Quote:
He just listed 6 jobs for a 60-year-old. Oh, the horror.


I wouldn't call it horror. But to be more precise, Cam listed six VP and CEO jobs seemingly since 2004.


With one exception - Vice President of Global Community Affairs at The Coca-Cola Company (a position that could have very little importance inside Coca-Cola) - she worked for very small organizations or companies. She wasn't CEO of a Fortune 500 company. And as WNBA teams demonstrate, the title of VP and CEO is readily thrown around these days, even by small enterprises.


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PostPosted: 11/01/18 10:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Seems like only yesterday you touting the virtues of Carly Fiorina, who has had even more jobs than Borders since 2004...


I posted about Borders only because there was a discussion about what kind of qualifications would be best for WNBA president -- academic, Catchings, Borders, a "Silver puppet", someone who cares more? It simply occurred to me that a serial job hopper might not be the best choice. Some of the greatest sports executives in history (not the WNBA) served for decades, sometimes until their deaths.

Fiorina? How is she relevant? Yes, at one point she was among my top three favorites of the 17 Republican nominees for President, and probably my #1 choice while she was in the race. So, in a sense, I did believe that Fiorina's background and personal style would be the best for the Presidency, and that her gender would help defeat the ultimate horror, Hillary. I'm not sure Fiorina has had any jobs other than political or charitable ones since getting fired-retired from HP in 2005.
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PostPosted: 11/01/18 11:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:

Seems like only yesterday you touting the virtues of Carly Fiorina, who has had even more jobs than Borders since 2004...


But based on her wiki page, it doesn't appear that Fiorina has had a full-time job since being fired as HP CEO (she was given a $21 million termination "golden parachute") in early 2005. Only "board member" type stuff.


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PostPosted: 11/02/18 12:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:


Quote:
“What we’re discussing and fighting for is a lot more intricate than simply pay us more. It’s a lot deeper than that. It’s infrastructural. Why is this so hard for people to understand? It’s kind of business 101. You’re not going to make money off a product that you don’t invest in. We are the product. The W is the product. And the investment is not there.”


I dunno.... seems like there’s been a generous upfront investment to have the WNBA exist in the first place. It’s up to the players to produce a mainstream product everyone wants to watch. Shouldn’t any additional investment be in advertising, not necessarily into players’ pocketbooks?


Yeah, it doesn't seem like calling for higher salaries for the players as an "investment" would work with the owners. But I believe that is coming from the new larger contracts that the NBA is paying to select G league players. Contracts that it refers to as an investment. But the WNBA has no higher league for which it's players could ascend to, so I don't think the same case can be made.

The two things I could see are "pay us more or we skip the WNBA" or "pay us more because we see you are profitable and can afford it". The former would likely cause the financially weaker teams to fold. The latter (if applicable) seems like the only real reason to strike.

They could also talk about re-distributing the wages. Less for bench and more for starters. Or more for all-stars and less for non all-stars.


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PostPosted: 11/02/18 9:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Investments make sense if they pay off ...

It is unclear that investing more money in the WNBA -- extending the season, spending $10 million (or whatever on marketing), adding charter flights -- will generate any significant return.

In general, labor negotiations involve workers asking for more because they don't get their fair share, and owners saying they can't share any more without going broke. Neither side wears white hats, and both sides have clear and competing agendas.

I would love to believe that WNBA owners should pay significantly more, but it's just hard for me to justify given the small crowds, low ratings and general lack of national interest in the league.

Should the players get a bump in the next CBA? Sure, but doubling or tripling their salaries -- the only option that would allow for an extension of the season and no time overseas -- seems out of the question.

Should the players get charter flights? It's just too expensive. Now if they would be willing to take a pay cut, or drop some of their health benefits, something might be worked out.

Should the owners be more transparent? Of course, but that's going to happen when a player walks into the GM's office and says "I'm playing crummy, I'm giving back 1/3 of my paycheck."

I think one of the initial hopes of the WNBA and most women's leagues was that women would be fans of watching other women play as much or more than watching men play. That, however, has not turned out to be the case, and the audience for women's sports has never reached the levels many thought it would.



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PostPosted: 11/02/18 6:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:

I guess being the former Vice President of Global Community Affairs at The Coca-Cola Company, serving as president of the Atlanta City Council of Atlanta, Georgia from 2004 to 2010, and being tremendously involved in getting a WNBA team in Atlanta in the first place are not important qualifications.

As an aside, Lisa Borders was also CEO of LMB LLC, a consulting company advising clients on community reinvestment, external affairs, marketing and communications; Senior Vice President of Marketing and External Affairs with Cousins Properties Incorporated, an Atlanta-based Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT); President of the Cousins Properties Foundation; Chief Administrator for Atlanta Women’s Specialists; and VP-Operations for Healthcap Atlanta.


I've never been interested in who is the WNBA president or think it matters much, but this employment history is airtight convincing: The peripatetic Lisa Borders either can't keep a job or never wants to really work at the one she currently holds.


He just listed 6 jobs for a 60-year-old. Oh, the horror.


I wouldn't call it horror. But to be more precise, Cam listed six VP and CEO jobs seemingly since 2004. That doesn't count president of the WNBA and her current CEO position.


At what point in my post did I say all of these were since 2004...to be even more precise?


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PostPosted: 11/02/18 10:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Who is the head of the WNBA Player’s Union now? It used to be Pam Wheeler, and then Evie Goldstein was there for only one season. But I do not know who the current one is.



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PostPosted: 11/03/18 7:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

StevenHW wrote:
Who is the head of the WNBA Player’s Union now? It used to be Pam Wheeler, and then Evie Goldstein was there for only one season. But I do not know who the current one is.


Terri Jackson is the current Executive Director



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PostPosted: 11/05/18 3:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
But to be more precise, Cam listed six VP and CEO jobs seemingly since 2004.


To be precise, please point out when and where I stated these jobs were since 2004 or seemingly since 2004. That did not happen.


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PostPosted: 11/07/18 6:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

HOWARD MEGDAL:
On a different note, obviously, from your experience as President of the WNBA, I'm just wondering what you feel is the most important elements of the job for whoever they decide to hire next, and also, specifically, if you think experience in the league: we have, now, a generation of executives who have done this at the team level. You have a Carley Knox, Kristin Bernert, Kelly Krauskopf. And so, you have this group of talent to choose from, do you think that they should choose from that group?


VAL ACKERMAN:
I think the job, one, is fan interest and support in the building and on the air waves. I mean, it's about building the business up of women's professional basketball and building revenues. They come principally from three sources. It's going to come from television, ticket sales, sponsorship and licensing. So, whoever takes this on has to be adept at all of those and has to understand where those future revenue streams are going to come from, or how they're going to grow. So that's one. Secondly, I can only speak for myself, it was enormously helpful for me that I knew the game. I knew the product. I came from within the system. I'd been at the NBA for eight years.


https://mailchi.mp/909f2c40d4bc/the-ix-basketball-wednesday-with-howard-megdal-november-7-2018


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PostPosted: 11/07/18 7:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Adam Silver isn't 'disappointed' that WNBA players opted out of CBA

http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/25205141/commissioner-adam-silver-disappointed-wnba-players-opted-cba-says-nba-support-wnba-remains-firm

Quote:
"I wasn't disappointed at all," Silver said. "And in a way, the silver lining of them opting out now is that, given that [WNBA president Lisa Borders] left when she did, my sense from talking to players and listening to what they're saying publicly is that we seem to be missing a connection, a real engagement between the players and the league.”


Quote:
Silver also sees greater engagement now between the players and their union, the Women's National Basketball Players Association, led by Terri Jackson. He thinks that's a good thing.


Quote:
Silver said the WNBA has been approached by interested candidates and also has a list of people it is approaching.


Quote:
The chief operating officer's position is open now, too. So while the two jobs are not necessarily being filled in tandem, it provides the opportunity to hire people with complementary skills at around the same time.

That conceivably could leave an avenue to the president's job for a former WNBA player who might not have significant direct experience with sales and marketing, but who has other skills.


Once again, ahead of the curve.

Quote:
"Given what is at stake here, in terms of the future of the league," Silver said, "we want to make sure to properly vet all the candidates.”


Unlike the last time he did this? I think that’s what he’s saying. It would make sense that he needs to make a much better effort than last time.

Quote:
"The question is fixing sales and marketing. How do we do a better job connecting with corporations and convincing them to support the league?


Figure it out. It’s your job, considering you’re the puppet master. Do you get the sense he’s just recently thinking about all this?

Quote:
"My sense is, though, that there is no magic bullet out there. It's not as if someone's going to come in and say, 'Aha! If only we had run this commercial, then our attendance would have been up and our ratings even higher.’”


Quote:
Even if we do a modified charter program for certain special occasions, there's enormous expense involved in it. We have to create budgets and decide where we can reasonably increase expenditures."

Other aspects of travel might be more readily attainable, including TSA Pre-Check and trying to get exit-row and aisle seating -- especially after a season in which the Las Vegas Aces opted to forfeit an Aug. 3 game at the Washington Mystics after more than 24 hours of travel delays.


Quote:
The WNBA as a whole has not made a profit during its 22 seasons, even though some individual franchises have. This year, it's expected the league will lose $12 million, according to NBA projections.


So how about negotiating a higher broadcasting fee from ABC, even if it’s in lieu of a slight discount on the NBA side? That could be secret way of “investing” in the WNBA.

Quote:
"We are in engaged in some constructive conversations with some potential buyers in the New York market," Silver said. "And while it is difficult in this market, because of the dearth of midsized buildings, we think we can continue to operate for some time at the Westchester County Center and that, over time, there will be some other potential venues that could house the Liberty."


We do? Why is up to you? Has the WNBA already secretly taken over the operation of the Liberty?

Quote:
"Each league is run independently," Silver said. "And the investment that we have made over the last 22 years in the WNBA is many times greater than the investment we've made in the G League. And the G League right now is roughly a break-even proposition for the NBA and its teams.



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 7:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Comment about a former player is interesting. Anybody have any ideas on a former player for Pres? (Aside from Catchings who has been discussed already.)


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PostPosted: 11/07/18 8:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
So how about negotiating a higher broadcasting fee from ABC, even if it’s in lieu of a slight discount on the NBA side? That could be secret way of “investing” in the WNBA.


Remember that the current deal was a lowball from ESPN. The W got $12M per year. A year later MLS got $75M per year despite lower ratings. The NBA did a piss poor job of negotiating for the W.



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 8:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One thing to desperately change is to find a different trading card company, like Topps or Panini and make WNBA cards accessible to kids again. Rittenhouse has got to go!



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PostPosted: 11/07/18 10:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Shades wrote:
So how about negotiating a higher broadcasting fee from ABC, even if it’s in lieu of a slight discount on the NBA side? That could be secret way of “investing” in the WNBA.


Remember that the current deal was a lowball from ESPN. The W got $12M per year. A year later MLS got $75M per year despite lower ratings. The NBA did a piss poor job of negotiating for the W.


MLS's rights are bundled with various national team games. Also, there are multiple outlets that actually want their games, which cannot be said about the WNBA. Part of this is because the MLS has better ratings in favorable demographics, particularly younger white men, a desirable advertising target that watches very little television compared to other demographics groups. The other part is that they have a Spanish-language package, which has its own value and multiple competitors for that as well.

The NWSL deal with Lifetime eventually failed and most of their broadcasts got moved to ESPNEWS. It was a major demographic mismatch from the channel's usual audience, which led to fun ratings moments like their pregame shows wildly outrating the games themselves. It was a worthwhile effort to try Lifetime, but it's probably not the best setup for a sports property at this point. At the end of the day, it would be hard anywhere else to even match ESPN's current level of exposure for the product.
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PostPosted: 11/07/18 11:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We don't know whether multiple outlets want W games. The NBA didn't explore other options.

The MLS Spanish language package is a separate deal, for an additional $15M.



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PostPosted: 11/08/18 7:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The number of games broadcast in the two TV contracts (WNBA, MLS) is significantly different. The $75 million MLS gets from ESPN and Fox is for a minimum of 68 regular season games plus 15 playoff games (17 done this year??). The WNBA and ESPN negotiated their $12 million March 2013 (coming off worst WNBA ESPN ratings ever in 2012) deal for up to 30 games a year, including the finals. A year later (I think both WNBA negotiations were due to the NBA/ESPN negotiations) it was re-negotiated to be $25 million. I don't know what the new contract had as far as games televised. For 2018 they were scheduled to show 13 regular season games (maybe changed) plus were ready to show 19 playoff games. Four of the playoff games were to be on ESPNNews. Disregarding that difference gets 32 possible games televised. So the price per game ends up being a lot closer than $25 million versus $75 million. $25 million/32 is $781,250 per game for ESPN to broadcast a WNBA game this year if they maximized playoff games. The highest average price ESPN/Fox could pay for an MLS game is ($75 million / 85 ) $882,352 per game . All of the regular season and over half of the MLS playoff games are also shown on a "Deportes" Spanish version of ESPN and Fox Sports 1.


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