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Coyotes
Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 4167
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 Posted: 09/30/18 6:07 pm ::: |
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| bballgrl wrote: |
| MrCam wrote: |
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| I don't know whether she is or not. I'm just saying, with her still being at the point of her career where she has to go overseas to make any real money, if she was even a little banged up at the end of the WNBA season, she should have taken the WC off, rather than try to play, and risk her bread. |
But I think the point is, Bird and Taurasi did it. That’s why they get the loyalty...
... Candace is another matter all together. But at the end of they day, who did people want to take off the team for her? Catch? Stewie? Angel? All of them deserved to be there just as much. The problem was USA is deep at the 3/4. |
I have maintained, and continue to maintain, that "deserve" don't have shit to do with shit. What I'm not here for is to hear this lip service about "loyalty," and then come back around on some, "But who would you leave off the team, though? X, Y and Z deserve their spot, too!" Fuck deserve. Either loyalty counts, or it don't. Don't make exceptions. Taurasi and the Compiler ain't never getting left off the team because there are other "deserving" players. Maya Moore ain't at World's: if she wants to play in Tokyo, ain't nobody going to say boo about other "deserving" players. Or even "loyalty," for that matter. So miss me with all that.
Can you demonstrate how Parker was "disloyal" to USAB? Because, if "loyalty" counts, then the answer to the "Who do you leave off the team to bring her back?" question is ridiculously simple: last one in, first one out. Problem solved. |
"Silky Johnson" stated:
Can you demonstrate how Parker was "disloyal" to USAB? Because,
if "loyalty" counts, then the answer to the "Who do you leave off the
team to bring her back?" question is ridiculously simple: last one in,
first one out. Problem solved.
--------------------------------------------
Lets take it a step further. Who do you leave off the team to bring her
[Candace Parker] back?" Simple, USAB should have left Morgan Tuck
& Nneka Ogwumike @ home and taken Candace Parker & Elizabeth
Williams in their place. And I defy ANYONE to show me how that is not
a significant upgrade. Morgan Tuck has been a WASTE of a roster spot.
Nneka Ogwumike has played way BELOW her capabilities.
Elizabeth Williams could be used as a sacrificial lamb to defend and
BEAT up on Liz. Candace, you just turn her loose.
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Mr Cam, you are aware that Candance was asked to play on this team but she declined. She said she was done with USA Basketball. Seems like some folks are more upset about her not being on the team than she is. |
Candace was not asked to play on the team, she was invited to try out, big difference. After the way she was treated in 2016 I don't blame her one bit for declining. I don't think anyone is upset about her not being on THIS team.
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 21929
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| Posted: 09/30/18 6:26 pm ::: |
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| Forget Parker. Y'all know who was by far the most overlooked by Team USA? Samantha Prahalis!
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Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
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BamaEd
Joined: 11 May 2014
Posts: 855
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09/30/18 8:07 pm ::: |
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How about I reword this thread a little?
Team USA needs to get serious about getting the next generation backcourt in and learning from two great guards in Bird and Taurasi.
I think loyalty has been great over the past several tournaments and there have been great experienced guards. But this should be an ever evolving roster so the team isn't going to experience a wholesale "changing of the guard" (forgive the pun). I think they have done a very good job in the frontcourt, but the backcourt hasn't had that same influx. We saw in this tournament how important it is to have a strong bench in the backcourt.
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allenleavell
Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 677
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boogiezen
Joined: 29 Nov 2004
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 19760
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| Posted: 09/30/18 10:01 pm ::: |
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| BamaEd wrote: |
How about I reword this thread a little?
Team USA needs to get serious about getting the next generation backcourt in and learning from two great guards in Bird and Taurasi.
I think loyalty has been great over the past several tournaments and there have been great experienced guards. But this should be an ever evolving roster so the team isn't going to experience a wholesale "changing of the guard" (forgive the pun). I think they have done a very good job in the frontcourt, but the backcourt hasn't had that same influx. We saw in this tournament how important it is to have a strong bench in the backcourt. |
That should have been what this tournament and the Olympics are..elite guards should have jumped at the chance to learn from these two.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
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| Posted: 09/30/18 10:04 pm ::: |
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| Instead Plum and Clarendon jumped at the chance. They clearly made the most of the opportunity.
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MrCam
Joined: 19 Sep 2018
Posts: 164
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| Posted: 09/30/18 10:21 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| bballgrl wrote: |
| MrCam wrote: |
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| I don't know whether she is or not. I'm just saying, with her still being at the point of her career where she has to go overseas to make any real money, if she was even a little banged up at the end of the WNBA season, she should have taken the WC off, rather than try to play, and risk her bread. |
But I think the point is, Bird and Taurasi did it. That’s why they get the loyalty...
... Candace is another matter all together. But at the end of they day, who did people want to take off the team for her? Catch? Stewie? Angel? All of them deserved to be there just as much. The problem was USA is deep at the 3/4. |
I have maintained, and continue to maintain, that "deserve" don't have shit to do with shit. What I'm not here for is to hear this lip service about "loyalty," and then come back around on some, "But who would you leave off the team, though? X, Y and Z deserve their spot, too!" Fuck deserve. Either loyalty counts, or it don't. Don't make exceptions. Taurasi and the Compiler ain't never getting left off the team because there are other "deserving" players. Maya Moore ain't at World's: if she wants to play in Tokyo, ain't nobody going to say boo about other "deserving" players. Or even "loyalty," for that matter. So miss me with all that.
Can you demonstrate how Parker was "disloyal" to USAB? Because, if "loyalty" counts, then the answer to the "Who do you leave off the team to bring her back?" question is ridiculously simple: last one in, first one out. Problem solved. |
"Silky Johnson" stated:
Can you demonstrate how Parker was "disloyal" to USAB? Because,
if "loyalty" counts, then the answer to the "Who do you leave off the
team to bring her back?" question is ridiculously simple: last one in,
first one out. Problem solved.
--------------------------------------------
Lets take it a step further. Who do you leave off the team to bring her
[Candace Parker] back?" Simple, USAB should have left Morgan Tuck
& Nneka Ogwumike @ home and taken Candace Parker & Elizabeth
Williams in their place. And I defy ANYONE to show me how that is not
a significant upgrade. Morgan Tuck has been a WASTE of a roster spot.
Nneka Ogwumike has played way BELOW her capabilities.
Elizabeth Williams could be used as a sacrificial lamb to defend and
BEAT up on Liz. Candace, you just turn her loose.
|
Mr Cam, you are aware that Candance was asked to play on this team but she declined. She said she was done with USA Basketball. Seems like some folks are more upset about her not being on the team than she is. |
Do you know WHY she declined???
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MrCam
Joined: 19 Sep 2018
Posts: 164
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| Posted: 09/30/18 10:31 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| BamaEd wrote: |
How about I reword this thread a little?
Team USA needs to get serious about getting the next generation
backcourt in and learning from two great guards in Bird and Taurasi.
I think loyalty has been great over the past several tournaments and
there have been great experienced guards. But this should be an ever evolving roster so the team isn't going to experience a wholesale
"changing of the guard" (forgive the pun). I think they have done a
very good job in the frontcourt, but the backcourt hasn't had that same influx. We saw in this tournament how important it is to have a strong
bench in the backcourt. |
I REFUSE to believe that the USA basketball system, the best BASKET-
BALL DEVELOPMENT SYSTEM on the planet. Cannot at a MINIMUM, pro-
duce two solid backup GUARDS for Team USA.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 3318
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| Posted: 09/30/18 11:32 pm ::: |
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| boogiezen wrote: |
I guess this is not about Bird or Taurasi at all, you're bitching because of Parker. |
You've clearly decided not to believe me, but I'm really not. Parker just happens to be the one example which refutes this whole notion of "Gray/Diggins/et. al aren't on the team because they weren't loyal enough" for whom no one can provide an effective counter-rebuttal. Parker turned down an opportunity to "try out" for Tenerife (as well she should have, IMO) because she was still offended over getting taken off the team in Rio, after everything that she's given to USAB.
I don't Stan for Parker like that, but the simple fact is, if you can't come up with a justifiable reason why Parker was left off the team in Rio, then you can't hide behind "loyalty" as the reason why other good players are being similarly snubbed/passed over, which is what other Rebkellians have been doing.
_________________
Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
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MrCam
Joined: 19 Sep 2018
Posts: 164
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| Posted: 10/01/18 12:35 am ::: |
Reply |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| boogiezen wrote: |
I guess this is not about Bird or Taurasi at all, you're bitching because of Parker. |
You've clearly decided not to believe me, but I'm really not. Parker just happens to be the one example which refutes this whole notion of "Gray/Diggins/et. al aren't on the team because they weren't loyal enough" for whom no one can provide an effective counter-rebuttal. Parker turned down an opportunity to "try out" for Tenerife (as well she should have, IMO) because she was still offended over getting taken off the team in Rio, after everything that she's given to USAB.
I don't Stan for Parker like that, but the simple fact is, if you can't come up with a justifiable reason why Parker was left off the team in Rio, then you can't hide behind "loyalty" as the reason why other good players are being similarly snubbed/passed over, which is what other Rebkellians have been doing. |
And to make Silky Johnson's point even more emphatic, in the
2012 Olympic Gold Medal Final, Candace Parker went into BEAST
mode, took over the game, and beat France by herself. It was the
single most dominant game by a woman on a ladies USA Basket-
ball Team.
And if ANYONE can show me a better game by a lady Team USA
player, show me the evidence.
And here is the game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IOFIajQEIA
And here are the stats for the game:
http://www.fiba.basketball/pages/eng/fa/player/p/pid/49633/sid/6233/tid/379/_/2012_Olympic_Women/index.html
Last edited by MrCam on 10/01/18 12:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 3318
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| Posted: 10/01/18 12:39 am ::: |
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| I suddenly feel like I need to re-think my entire platform.
_________________
Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22474
Location: NJ
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| Posted: 10/01/18 10:08 am ::: |
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| And I don't think Washington would have gotten past Atlanta if they had McCoughtry.
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LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
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dtbtbtb
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 122
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| Posted: 10/01/18 12:54 pm ::: |
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| Is there any doubt that If Diggins and Gray would have made themself available they would have been on this team? But they didn't and as such should (unless they were injured) not be on the Olympic team for 2020! DT and Bird if they continue to play in the next 2 seasons as they did this last season, should and will be!
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63781
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| Posted: 10/01/18 12:59 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| And I don't think Washington would have gotten past Atlanta if they had McCoughtry. |
Yep, they stumbled into the Finals and got swept, eerily similar to when Delle Donne went to the Finals in 2014.
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24356
Location: London
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| Posted: 10/01/18 1:18 pm ::: |
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| dtbtbtb wrote: |
| Is there any doubt that If Diggins and Gray would have made themself available they would have been on this team? But they didn't and as such should (unless they were injured) not be on the Olympic team for 2020! DT and Bird if they continue to play in the next 2 seasons as they did this last season, should and will be! |
The thing is, if they were hurt, shouldn't they and their agents have been shouting that from the rooftops? I'd be posting pictures from the operating room on instagram, or rehab session clips on facebook, or whatever. Instead, the silence has been deafening. |
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
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| Posted: 10/01/18 1:53 pm ::: |
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| Is there any reason to think that in 2020 any of the competitors will be any better than they were in WC 2018? Questionable as this Team USA was (or wasn't) - why wouldn't they still be favorites to win? (Assuming Bird and Taurasi don't go the way of Whalen.)
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63781
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| Posted: 10/01/18 2:08 pm ::: |
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| They’ll be the overwhelming favorites to win in 2020. 2018 had a lot of B-team members.
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
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| Posted: 10/01/18 3:04 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| Shades wrote: |
| They’ll be the overwhelming favorites to win in 2020. 2018 had a lot of B-team members. |
Right - but what I'm asking is why can't the same players (even the B-teamsters) win again?
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63781
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| Posted: 10/01/18 3:11 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| They’ll be the overwhelming favorites to win in 2020. 2018 had a lot of B-team members. |
Right - but what I'm asking is why can't the same players (even the B-teamsters) win again? |
Are you suggesting Maya, Fowles, McCoughtry, and whatever guards needn’t try out for the 2020? That’s up to them.
_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: 10/01/18 3:28 pm ::: |
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| MrCam wrote: |
And to make Silky Johnson's point even more emphatic, in the
2012 Olympic Gold Medal Final, Candace Parker went into BEAST
mode, took over the game, and beat France by herself. It was the
single most dominant game by a woman on a ladies USA Basket-
ball Team.
And if ANYONE can show me a better game by a lady Team USA
player, show me the evidence. |
Lisa Leslie, 1996 quarterfinals against Japan. She accounted for 35 points (16 made field goals, out of 21 attempts) in the 108-93 win.
In the 1996 semis against Australia, a 93-71 win for the U.S., Leslie put up 22 points and 13 rebounds. She shot 10-16 from the floor.
And in the gold medal game against Brazil, Leslie put up 29 points in the 111-87 win, shooting 12-14 from the floor and 5-5 from three free throw line.
For the tournament, Leslie averaged 19.5 ppg and 7.3 rpg in eight games, shooting over 66 percent from the floor. But in the medal round games (the teams who advanced to the quarterfinals and beyond), she averaged 28.67 points per game while shooting 74.51 percent from the floor.
https://www.usab.com/history/national-team-womens/games-of-the-xxvith-olympiad-1996.aspx
https://www.usab.com/history/national-team-womens/us-womens-olympic-team-records.aspx
http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/player/p/pid/6713/pid2//sid/2951/tid/379/tid2//_/1996_Olympic_Games_Tournament_for_Women/index.html
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
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| Posted: 10/01/18 3:32 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Shades wrote: |
| Randy wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| They’ll be the overwhelming favorites to win in 2020. 2018 had a lot of B-team members. |
Right - but what I'm asking is why can't the same players (even the B-teamsters) win again? |
Are you suggesting Maya, Fowles, McCoughtry, and whatever guards needn’t try out for the 2020? That’s up to them. |
Your making my simple question complicated.
Not saying those 3 don't need to try out- I'm just trying understand all the angst/anger over various players not being on the team* - it appears they aren't really needed. Why the angst/anger or whatever it is? Had USA lost maybe the selection committee might change things, but as I see they may figure they don't need to change a thing and if players don't like it - well tough luck.
*eg Diggins, Smith, Parker whoever.
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MrCam
Joined: 19 Sep 2018
Posts: 164
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| Posted: 10/01/18 3:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| MrCam wrote: |
And to make Silky Johnson's point even more emphatic, in the
2012 Olympic Gold Medal Final, Candace Parker went into BEAST
mode, took over the game, and beat France by herself. It was the
single most dominant game by a woman on a ladies USA Basket-
ball Team.
And if ANYONE can show me a better game by a lady Team USA
player, show me the evidence. |
Lisa Leslie, 1996 quarterfinals against Japan. She accounted for 35 points (16 made field goals, out of 21 attempts) in the 108-93 win.
In the 1996 semis against Australia, a 93-71 win for the U.S., Leslie put up 22 points and 13 rebounds. She shot 10-16 from the floor.
And in the gold medal game against Brazil, Leslie put up 29 points in the 111-87 win, shooting 12-14 from the floor and 5-5 from three free throw line.
For the tournament, Leslie averaged 19.5 ppg and 7.3 rpg in eight games, shooting over 66 percent from the floor. But in the medal round games (the teams who advanced to the quarterfinals and beyond), she averaged 28.67 points per game while shooting 74.51 percent from the floor.
https://www.usab.com/history/national-team-womens/games-of-the-xxvith-olympiad-1996.aspx
https://www.usab.com/history/national-team-womens/us-womens-olympic-team-records.aspx
http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/player/p/pid/6713/pid2//sid/2951/tid/379/tid2//_/1996_Olympic_Games_Tournament_for_Women/index.html |
Well done and I thank you for the information. However,
even with Parker's game against France downgraded to say
5th best game all-time. It STILL makes Silky Johnson's point.
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