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Davis4632



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PostPosted: 09/12/18 9:14 pm    ::: Washington Mystics 2019 Reply Reply with quote

Now what? Is Emma coming back?


Randy



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PostPosted: 09/12/18 9:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

More important than that - when are they going to start getting some refs on the payroll? Razz


Michelle89



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PostPosted: 09/12/18 9:16 pm    ::: Re: Washington Mystics 2019 Reply Reply with quote

Davis4632 wrote:
Now what? Is Emma coming back?


You get Emma back. Try to get EDD healthy and try again. Nobody expected them in the finals this year. I cant see them getting worse next season



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 09/12/18 9:20 pm    ::: Re: Washington Mystics 2019 Reply Reply with quote

I'm still not sure how you play Emma and EDD together. If Emma is willing to play elsewhere, I would at least test those waters. Can you get a better center if you are willing to part with her, for example?


Randy



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PostPosted: 09/12/18 9:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah let's start the find a new home for Emma game. Problem with trading her for a center is most teams have one good center or less. Don't know anyone with 2.


Aladyyn



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PostPosted: 09/12/18 9:28 pm    ::: Re: Washington Mystics 2019 Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
I'm still not sure how you play Emma and EDD together. If Emma is willing to play elsewhere, I would at least test those waters. Can you get a better center if you are willing to part with her, for example?

Trading Emma for a center is not a worthwhile pursuit. We're not getting a top one for her and the ones below that top tier are not as valuable as her.


Michelle89



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PostPosted: 09/12/18 9:33 pm    ::: Re: Washington Mystics 2019 Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
I'm still not sure how you play Emma and EDD together. If Emma is willing to play elsewhere, I would at least test those waters. Can you get a better center if you are willing to part with her, for example?


Sanders did pretty good at center so you dont really need that. If EDD and Hawkins can play together then EDD and Meesseman can do that aswell. You need a solid 3rd option( Atkins and Emma as your 3rd and 4th option is pretty solid)so let Emma come off the bench for 25 minutes or so and keep on starting Sanders. I would trade Hawkins



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Aladyyn



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PostPosted: 09/12/18 9:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sanders is a starter but she can't really play 30+ minutes consistently because of her condition. There should be plenty minutes for Emma+MHA off the bench.


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 09/12/18 9:42 pm    ::: Re: Washington Mystics 2019 Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
I'm still not sure how you play Emma and EDD together. If Emma is willing to play elsewhere, I would at least test those waters. Can you get a better center if you are willing to part with her, for example?


Sanders did pretty good at center so you dont really need that. If EDD and Hawkins can play together then EDD and Meesseman can do that aswell. You need a solid 3rd option( Atkins and Emma as your 3rd and 4th option is pretty solid)so let Emma come off the bench for 25 minutes or so and keep on starting Sanders. I would trade Hawkins


Why would you want Messeman to play like Hawkins. She is much better and much more valuable. A team where your two best players (certainly not Hawkins) play the same position is a real problem. Seems to me that Messeman is more valuable on the market that she is on the team. They did well without her, and it seems to me they can improve more by adding a piece that plays a different position than they can adding an All-Star who doubles up their best player.

Looks like a similar issue that CT has to me.


Aladyyn



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PostPosted: 09/12/18 9:45 pm    ::: Re: Washington Mystics 2019 Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
I'm still not sure how you play Emma and EDD together. If Emma is willing to play elsewhere, I would at least test those waters. Can you get a better center if you are willing to part with her, for example?


Sanders did pretty good at center so you dont really need that. If EDD and Hawkins can play together then EDD and Meesseman can do that aswell. You need a solid 3rd option( Atkins and Emma as your 3rd and 4th option is pretty solid)so let Emma come off the bench for 25 minutes or so and keep on starting Sanders. I would trade Hawkins


Why would you want Messeman to play like Hawkins. She is much better and much more valuable. A team where your two best players (certainly not Hawkins) play the same position is a real problem. Seems to me that Messeman is more valuable on the market that she is on the team. They did well without her, and it seems to me they can improve more by adding a piece that plays a different position than they can adding an All-Star who doubles up their best player.

Looks like a similar issue that CT has to me.

Please suggest an Emma trade that does this. Because I'm still drawing a blank after talking about this all season.


Aladyyn



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PostPosted: 09/12/18 9:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And honestly? If you don't have Griner/Fowles/Cambage I don't think it really matters who's playing the 5 for you as long as they're at least 6 foot 3, good, and can rebound the ball. Against most teams it doesn't matter and you're not stopping the aforementioned 3 with single coverage anyways (unless you have one of them specifically).


Michelle89



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PostPosted: 09/12/18 10:04 pm    ::: Re: Washington Mystics 2019 Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
I'm still not sure how you play Emma and EDD together. If Emma is willing to play elsewhere, I would at least test those waters. Can you get a better center if you are willing to part with her, for example?


Sanders did pretty good at center so you dont really need that. If EDD and Hawkins can play together then EDD and Meesseman can do that aswell. You need a solid 3rd option( Atkins and Emma as your 3rd and 4th option is pretty solid)so let Emma come off the bench for 25 minutes or so and keep on starting Sanders. I would trade Hawkins


Why would you want Messeman to play like Hawkins. She is much better and much more valuable. A team where your two best players (certainly not Hawkins) play the same position is a real problem. Seems to me that Messeman is more valuable on the market that she is on the team. They did well without her, and it seems to me they can improve more by adding a piece that plays a different position than they can adding an All-Star who doubles up their best player.

Looks like a similar issue that CT has to me.


Im not saying that she has to play like Hawkins. Im saying both are powerforwards so if EDD can play with Hawkins without the team giving up leads etc then with Emma will not be that much of a problem. Emma has more of a postgame then Hawkins and is a better 3pointshooter. Also you dont want EDD to play 30+ minutes.
Have her play around 27-28 max Give those 12-13 min to Emma and then have Sanders play around 25 min. Also you can go big for 5-10 min per game when the defensive matchups allow that or when the opposing bench unit is in.

Trade Emma to the Mercury or Sky and you wont get the return that she is worth



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 09/12/18 10:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A genuine 3 who can shoot would be an alternative to trade Meesseman for - Atkins is really a 2, and will probably be the successor to Toliver in the not-too-distant future - but those aren't easy to find either. Most likely they just bring Mees back, add her into the mix and make themselves deeper. It'd give them more cover for the inevitable times Delle Donne gets hurt.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/12/18 11:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Also can we be sure Meesseman does come back? And even if she would come back to Washington would she come back for another team? She has National team commitments, makes more money over-seas and isn't an American does she risk injury and possible messing up her National team and bigger contract? This isn't meant as a slight but it is a legit question and it does lower her trade value.


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PostPosted: 09/13/18 12:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Also can we be sure Meesseman does come back? And even if she would come back to Washington would she come back for another team? She has National team commitments, makes more money over-seas and isn't an American does she risk injury and possible messing up her National team and bigger contract? This isn't meant as a slight but it is a legit question and it does lower her trade value.

You can't be certain of anything, and obviously EuroBasket might impinge on the WNBA occasionally, but Meesseman's shown pretty impressive dedication to the WNBA. She'd missed 11 games total prior to this season, for any reason, in five years since being drafted. That's better than a bunch of the Americans, frankly.

I expect her to show up in Washington. Whether she would be as dedicated somewhere else is certainly open to question. Personal relationships can always turn these decisions, and she and Thibault seem to understand each other well. But she may also be one of those basketball junkies driven to improve and to test herself on the highest level - who would therefore continue to show up elsewhere in the US. That's something you'd talk to her and her agent about before making any moves.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/13/18 12:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

After watching the Toliver/Langhorne story I think it would interesting if UFA Langhorne went back to Washington to finish out her career (they don't really need her if Emma is back, but she would be a good fit, and give them scoring and experience in the post).


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/13/18 12:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
Also can we be sure Meesseman does come back? And even if she would come back to Washington would she come back for another team? She has National team commitments, makes more money over-seas and isn't an American does she risk injury and possible messing up her National team and bigger contract? This isn't meant as a slight but it is a legit question and it does lower her trade value.

You can't be certain of anything, and obviously EuroBasket might impinge on the WNBA occasionally, but Meesseman's shown pretty impressive dedication to the WNBA. She'd missed 11 games total prior to this season, for any reason, in five years since being drafted. That's better than a bunch of the Americans, frankly.

I expect her to show up in Washington. Whether she would be as dedicated somewhere else is certainly open to question. Personal relationships can always turn these decisions, and she and Thibault seem to understand each other well. But she may also be one of those basketball junkies driven to improve and to test herself on the highest level - who would therefore continue to show up elsewhere in the US. That's something you'd talk to her and her agent about before making any moves.


I hope she does come back.

My only counter to that is she is in her late twenties instead of her early twenties and as we get older we tend to make more conservative decisions. And in year round basketball land she might choose rest, preperation for the Olympics and protection of assets over great competition.


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/13/18 12:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

#10 draft possibilities

who knows with Mike T no one had Atkins that high and everyone was wrong.

Guards/wing
Cunningham, Laska, Calhoun (just thought I throw in a Mike T curve ball) Matin, Kea, Bell, Higgs (or a bunch)

Posts
Anigwe, Sheppard, Gustafason, Turner, Jenning


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/13/18 12:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What I would do

sign Langhorne
draft Cunningham
Start EDD at the 3 but quickly sub in a SF for one of Emma or EDD for better balance

Toliver/Cloud
Atkins/Powers/SWK
EDD/Hines-Allen/Cunningham
Meesseman/Hawkins
Sanders/Langhorne

keep K. Thomas if one of Meesseman or Sanders doesn't play in 19

Maybe keep SWK instead of TRP, and play Hines-Allen at the 3 and the 4




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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 09/13/18 12:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

She only turned 25 in May. These Euros start young, don't forget. And there's every chance Belgium won't qualify for the Olympics (even a pretty decent chance they don't qualify for the World Olympic Qualifying groups) which would reduce those commitments.

I agree that nothing is certain, but I just think it's unfair at this point to tar her as one of these unreliable foreigners. She took one season off when her country qualified for the biggest tournament in their history (and she's struggling to be fit for it anyway, by the way). At this point she's skipped a similar amount of time to people like Taurasi and McCoughtry.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/13/18 12:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TBH I am just putting myself in her shoes not trying to paint her as unreliable.

Risk of injury is a real thing and if you make $500,000 at one job, want to bring your country to a new level in your sport, playing in a third league when you could rest and spend time with your family and not get hurt doesn't seem unreasonable.

I view as only slightly different for the American's in the W, but can understand why even they choose to rest or end their career here and continue to play over-seas.

It is nothing against Emma, this is her first year not playing in the W, but it is exactly that which might make her realize she is OK without it.


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PostPosted: 09/13/18 4:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mystics should draft a PG at #10. I hope Thibault keeps Hines-Allen around and develops her. She's had some very nice bright spots this season. I believe Hawkins is a FA and will likely go elsewhere.

PG: Cloud/#10 pick
SG: Toliver/Powers/Walker-Kimbrough
SF: Atkins/Ruffin-Pratt
PF: Delle Donne/Meesseman
C: Sanders/Hines-Allen/free agent



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Randy



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PostPosted: 09/13/18 6:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:

I hope she does come back.

My only counter to that is she is in her late twenties instead of her early twenties and as we get older we tend to make more conservative decisions. And in year round basketball land she might choose rest, preperation for the Olympics and protection of assets over great competition.


She was only 25 in May. As I recall she wanted to come back this season, but couldn't be available for the playoffs due to her NT duties. Had they brought her back, they might easily have won another game and gotten the 2 seed, and perhaps the 1 seed. With Delle Donne's injury history it seem to be me they keep her and just figure out how to best use her.


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PostPosted: 09/13/18 9:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Injuries are a fact of athletic life at this level, and you can never have too many good players. If they're all healthy, then maybe you have a problem, but as noted in another thread, only one top team stayed healthy all year ...

Or, think about it this way: How much better off would the Mystics have been if they had Emma when EDD got hurt?



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RP



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PostPosted: 09/13/18 9:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aladyyn wrote:
And honestly? If you don't have Griner/Fowles/Cambage I don't think it really matters who's playing the 5 for you as long as they're at least 6 foot 3, good, and can rebound the ball. Against most teams it doesn't matter and you're not stopping the aforementioned 3 with single coverage anyways (unless you have one of them specifically).


Meesseman does not rebound very well for her natural position, which makes her at the 5 a little different. I expect her to still see close to her usual minutes, but the least of that to come at the 5.

Outside of adding her, next season should mostly just be a continuation. No longer will the Mystics start the season searching for the right starting lineup. If an Atkins jump comes, Toliver may not see the opponent's best perimeter defender for the first time in career. The Storm just set a league record for ORtg, but the Mystics have the potential to shatter it.


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PostPosted: 09/13/18 11:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Injuries are a fact of athletic life at this level, and you can never have too many good players. If they're all healthy, then maybe you have a problem, but as noted in another thread, only one top team stayed healthy all year ...

Or, think about it this way: How much better off would the Mystics have been if they had Emma when EDD got hurt?


With that argument they still wouldn't have been in the final as The Dream and Angel would have been Wink Laughing


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PostPosted: 09/13/18 12:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Krystal Thomas clearly isn't returning. Hawkins, I believe, is a FA. This should automatically make them keep Meesseman. And hopefully Hines-Allen. Pick up a FA center to back up Sanders.



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PostPosted: 09/13/18 12:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Krystal Thomas clearly isn't returning.

Eh. There are worse players to keep around in the 11th/12th spot if she's willing to stay for the vet minimum.

toad455 wrote:
Hawkins, I believe, is a FA.

Nope.



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greg5222



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PostPosted: 09/13/18 1:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
More important than that - when are they going to start getting some refs on the payroll? Razz


Tried...…….Failed Smile

PEACE & LOVE GO MYSTICS!!!!!



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toad455



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PostPosted: 09/24/18 5:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://georgetowner.com/articles/2018/09/24/d-c-gets-another-new-sports-venue/



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PostPosted: 09/25/18 6:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I hope they reuse those shiny scissors.



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PostPosted: 09/25/18 1:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Toliver getting a good look at the Mystics' new home


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PostPosted: 09/25/18 2:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So this is like a high school gym for a small school -- bleachers only on one side?

That is not a good look when there are no fans behind the benches.



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PostPosted: 09/25/18 4:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Is it possible this is only a practice gym?

this is supposedly what it looks like:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/photos-from-the-opening-of-the-new-home-for-the-wnbas-washington-mystics/2018/09/22/ba50fa8a-be9e-11e8-8792-78719177250f_gallery.html?utm_term=.7f09140fc1a7
it's the 10th photo in this gallery



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PostPosted: 09/25/18 4:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Is it possible this is only a practice gym?


It is a practice gym.... for the Wizards.



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PostPosted: 09/25/18 4:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Any pictures of the "seats"? Haven't found any.



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PostPosted: 09/25/18 4:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You have to wade through all the pictures to get to it, but the seats looks fine to me. As I understand the area surrounding the arena is concern for Mystics fans, because it has a reputation for being unsafe.


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PostPosted: 09/25/18 10:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

*duplicate*




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tfan



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PostPosted: 09/25/18 10:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Home of the NBA G League Capital City Go-Go.



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PostPosted: 09/25/18 11:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
So this is like a high school gym for a small school -- bleachers only on one side?

That is not a good look when there are no fans behind the benches.



That’s the practice part of the building. The arena is a separate part of the same building.

The whole facility looks pretty nice. The arena part is just “intimate” as they like to say.



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PostPosted: 09/25/18 11:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote



Approx eight rows of seats on one side of the court.

Single level at ends.

Two levels on the other side.

4,200 total capacity.

That's fewer than the forty year old Smith Center at GW or the thirty year old Bender Arena at American U.

It's a pretty glaring statement about the insignificance of the Mystics. What a shame.


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PostPosted: 09/26/18 8:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

hopefully with their recent Finals appearance, Mystics' fans will fill that 4,200 seat arena. Maybe playoff games will go to the Capital One Arena?



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PostPosted: 09/26/18 9:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Definitely better, but still -- eight rows behind the team benches? Not a great look.

That said, if the Mystics pack this place every night, it could be really fun and a tremendous home court advantage.

I'm not optimistic, but I'm hopeful.



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PostPosted: 09/26/18 9:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Definitely better, but still -- eight rows behind the team benches? Not a great look.

That said, if the Mystics pack this place every night, it could be really fun and a tremendous home court advantage.

I'm not optimistic, but I'm hopeful.



agree. just wish the capacity was more. Like around 7k.



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PostPosted: 09/26/18 10:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Definitely better, but still -- eight rows behind the team benches? Not a great look.


They show the team benches on the side opposite the eight rows. But if they can’t get a TV camera up high enough on the eight row side and had to use the other side for it, the eight rows would end up being shown.




Last edited by tfan on 09/26/18 7:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
Randy



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PostPosted: 09/26/18 11:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If we have learned anything from the Dream going to GA Tech, and the Liberty's moves to WCC (and NJ before that), and other teams moving around it seems that what really matters is Location, Location, Location. The places that are hard to get to or lack parking generally suck when it comes to attendance. If, the new arena is located with convenient transportation in a safe area it should do well. From what ArtBest23 and others have posted that is not the case, so the numbers may be sparse.


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PostPosted: 09/26/18 12:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
hopefully with their recent Finals appearance, Mystics' fans will fill that 4,200 seat arena. Maybe playoff games will go to the Capital One Arena?


One would think that since the whole point of the deal was to try to draw people to an economically depressed and isolated part of the city (in exchange for spending $70M on a free practice facility for the Wizards), the deal wouldn't allow the Mystics to cherry pick the most popular games and move them downtown.

On the other hand, DC politics being what they are, it's possible the politicians are happy just being able to point to the shiny new building and proclaim "See, we care about Ward 8, look what we did for you!" and don't really care what happens afterwards or if anyone shows up. Once they get their pictures taken at the Mary J Blige concert next month, they may consider their job done and go right back to ignoring Ward 8.

Whatever the details of the deal are, though, Ted Leonsis and Shiela Johnson knew what they could and couldn't do when they signed up. I'm not convinced the good of the Mystics or their fans was even a minor consideration in Ted getting for free his long-desired practice facility.

BTW, with respect to new concert venues, The Anthem, recently opened at the big time, expensive, office/condo/hotel/entertainment complex at The Wharf on the waterfront in SW DC, holds 6,000. It opened with a concert by the Foo Fighters. Unlike the St. E's site of the Mystics arena, The Wharf has attracted lots of new restaurants, bars and retail, and a shiny expensive new InterContinental Hotel. Now if they had built the Mystics arena at the Wharf, it would have been a huge success, but then it would have cost a lot more money and the city wouldn't have picked up the tab.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 12724



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PostPosted: 09/26/18 12:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
If we have learned anything from the Dream going to GA Tech, and the Liberty's moves to WCC (and NJ before that), and other teams moving around it seems that what really matters is Location, Location, Location. The places that are hard to get to or lack parking generally suck when it comes to attendance. If, the new arena is located with convenient transportation in a safe area it should do well. From what ArtBest23 and others have posted that is not the case, so the numbers may be sparse.


It's in an area with a bad reputation, especially among suburbanites considering a trip downtown. Key is parking. It's not a difficult drive, and people went to RFK and the Armory because the parking was easy, close to the venue, and relatively isolated from the surroundings. I don't know the parking situation or plans yet at the new arena. But good parking and a confidence in the safety (both for car and subway travelers) are key to attracting families and kids. I'll be interested to see how that develops.

There's also nothing else there. I had Nationals season tickets when they played at RFK several years, but it was a drive in, go to the game, and get out and get home thing. It's not like going to the Capital One or the new Nationals park where you can go get food and a beer next door with friends before and/or after a game.

There's not likely to be anything of significant interest around the Mystics arena for a long time, if ever.

But, the place is so small that the crowd is probably going to look pretty good. After all, it's just not that hard to draw, say, 3,000, and that will look like a pretty full house in that little shoe box. I expect they will fill up frequently, at least in the beginning.

They really need to focus on security, though. Given the pre-existing doubts, one bad incident could really be a setback.

On the other hand, if the word after a couple months of WNBA play is that people feel safe and comment that there is lots of security and no problems, it will really boost things.

(BTW, I'm not really equating this site to the RFK/Armory site. They're similar in some ways, but crossing the Anacostia river is in the DC mentality like crossing into another land. This site is harder to get to, less well known, and has a worse reputation. People were familiar with going to RFK and the Armory for decades. I'm not sure yet that families who for years didn't hesitate to to take their kids to a Sunday afternoon Ringling Brothers show at the Armory will be willing,at least at first, to take their kids to the St E's arena for a Mystics game.)


Ay Mate



Joined: 12 Nov 2016
Posts: 1153



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PostPosted: 09/26/18 4:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aladyyn wrote:
Toliver getting a good look at the Mystics' new home


Pathetic. First the Liberty’s shithole and now this. Just fold the entire league now. It’s becoming a complete joke. Why not just play in a school yard.


CourtsideTix



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 4497
Location: Washington, DC


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PostPosted: 09/27/18 6:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:


Approx eight rows of seats on one side of the court.

Single level at ends.

Two levels on the other side.

4,200 total capacity.

That's fewer than the forty year old Smith Center at GW or the thirty year old Bender Arena at American U.

It's a pretty glaring statement about the insignificance of the Mystics. What a shame.


Yup. It's my understanding that there was an option to build the "arena" in a way that it could seat 5,000-plus (the first number would not have been a 4), but that the City would not pay for it. I have mixed feelings about all that, as I don't believe cities should be footing the bill for new arenas and stadiums for the zillionaire owners of sports teams. (Abe Pollin spent his own $$$ to build the MCI Center.)

BTW, season ticketholders have been invited to a come-see-the-new-digs event Friday night in conjunction with a Wizards practice.


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