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mavcarter
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Joined: 02 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: 09/09/19 2:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Well folks, it’s safe to say we can close the book on Howard getting punished here in 2019 for things she did to her ex-gf. They wouldn’t have the cajónes to suspend her during the playoffs. It’s not happening, and it probably won’t ever get publicly addressed again, even though that’s the least it deserves. No, at this point, all has been swept under the rug Mad


Is Howard’s ex pursuing criminal charges?

How Howard & Sims avoided suspensions this season is beyond me.



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Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 09/09/19 3:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
Well folks, it’s safe to say we can close the book on Howard getting punished here in 2019 for things she did to her ex-gf. They wouldn’t have the cajónes to suspend her during the playoffs. It’s not happening, and it probably won’t ever get publicly addressed again, even though that’s the least it deserves. No, at this point, all has been swept under the rug Mad


Is Howard’s ex pursuing criminal charges?

How Howard & Sims avoided suspensions this season is beyond me.


Idk if she is, though even if she weren’t it shouldn’t matter. The Storm org. said they were doing an investigation, thus I think the Storm fans/public has a right to know either how it’s going at this point (or when the Storm season ends) or what the results were if it’s over.

“Personal code of conduct” my A$$. Shouldn’t matter if a felony was charged or not.


Mixolydian



Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 39
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PostPosted: 09/09/19 8:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Agreed, Stormeo. It affected my fandom this season quite a bit. I used to never miss a Storm game on leaguepass, but after it all came out mid-season I found myself not bothering to tune in a lot of the time. Even when Sami was starting and kicking ass and Canada and Russell have been so much fun to watch improve.

I'm guessing that fans like me, for whom the silence on the subject from the league and team is a problem, are outnumbered by the fans for whom winning/having Howard play is more important.

I don't see it changing, either. She's too talented to trade and we'll probably never hear of the allegations, investigation, etc. again.


Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 09/09/19 10:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mixolydian wrote:
Agreed, Stormeo. It affected my fandom this season quite a bit. I used to never miss a Storm game on leaguepass, but after it all came out mid-season I found myself not bothering to tune in a lot of the time. Even when Sami was starting and kicking ass and Canada and Russell have been so much fun to watch improve.


I feel the same way! I lost my ability to feel invested with the team. Honestly I was hoping they would suspend Howard like they did Riquna Williams just so that there could be some sort of action that could hopefully lead to closure. No such thing.

Mixolydian wrote:
I'm guessing that fans like me, for whom the silence on the subject from the league and team is a problem, are outnumbered by the fans for whom winning/having Howard play is more important.


For me personally, I was wrestling with whether or not I'd feel as strongly as I do if the Storm hadn't yet won a championship. If I had a hunger for this team to win a 'ship (sort of like I do the Mariners, though those are almost different feelings entirely at this point), I don't think my feelings would be different, but I can't say for certain. Maybe I'd selfishly look the other way, too. But even last year's championship almost feels tainted for me now, knowing this abuse was likely going on back then.

Mixolydian wrote:
I don't see it changing, either. She's too talented to trade and we'll probably never hear of the allegations, investigation, etc. again.


She may be too talented to trade, but I want her gone if nothing's gonna come out of this. If it all really will get swept under the rug for the rest of this year, I don't want her on this team, especially knowing it could all happen again with the next relationship she enters. If we trade her, it's very likely not a trade we'll win, and I'm fine with that. Process matters. Doing things the right way matters.

And to think this organization had gone as far as having a Planned Parenthood Night at a game... no such statements like that or of any other sort this year Confused


Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 09/09/19 10:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So would a 10 game suspension been enough to change the way you feel about it?


Stormeo



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PostPosted: 09/10/19 12:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
So would a 10 game suspension been enough to change the way you feel about it?


Great question. Hard to say how I think things should happen. Is the goal to rectify the situation? Is the goal just straight-up punishment? When it comes to domestic violence that doesn't involve legal action, it becomes even more of a gray matter imo. And maybe her ex-gf doesn't want to bring charges.

Policy wise, I think the player - of any sports league - should be indefinitely suspended while an organizational investigation is taking place as issues become public? In theory, an organization would face a lot of backlash for not taking any sort of action, or even just acknowledging it, so it should force them to investigate. It would also keep the investigation moving quickly, as that org. wouldn't want to keep their player suspended longer than necessary. If found not guilty, maybe fines get rescinded and some sort of compensation happens. If found guilty without being serious enough for criminal charges, maybe a temporary ban?

Ugh, there are legal and sensical holes though to what I'm suggesting, I know. It's just so messy, and I'm having a hard time keeping objectivity. So, I'll get back to sort of answering the original question. If found to have formally violated the code of conduct: a fine, a suspension of say 5-7 games including a playoff game (since Riquna Williams got 10 and she of course had a felony charged to her... but then she should've been given like a 1-year ban or something), and for sure a counseling requirement. The Nothing that's happened so far is just unacceptable.


GEF34



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: 09/10/19 12:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Didn’t Natasha Howard actually file a case of abuse with the court against her ex wife. If she actually has a case pending in which she is accusing that person of causing the abuse where as everything against her is just twitter posts, perhaps there is more to the story and if she is claiming to be the abused one as opposed the abuser I don’t think the league or the team should be quick to just suspend her or take any type of action because of what has been posted on twitter without seeing how things actually develop.



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 09/10/19 1:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GEF34 wrote:
Didn’t Natasha Howard actually file a case of abuse with the court against her ex wife. If she actually has a case pending in which she is accusing that person of causing the abuse where as everything against her is just twitter posts, perhaps there is more to the story and if she is claiming to be the abused one as opposed the abuser I don’t think the league or the team should be quick to just suspend her or take any type of action because of what has been posted on twitter without seeing how things actually develop.


I was under the impression that the abuse was somewhat both-sided but Natasha was much more of the aggressor. Didn’t hear about the case of abuse thing. I doubt Natasha has much of a case tbh, unless she too has photos and timelines of events that she can produce. I tended to believe much of what Jacqueline said (sorry I mislabeled her as the ex-gf when really they had gotten married), and maybe I shouldn’t have, but generally speaking, I still do.


GEF34



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: 09/10/19 2:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
GEF34 wrote:
Didn’t Natasha Howard actually file a case of abuse with the court against her ex wife. If she actually has a case pending in which she is accusing that person of causing the abuse where as everything against her is just twitter posts, perhaps there is more to the story and if she is claiming to be the abused one as opposed the abuser I don’t think the league or the team should be quick to just suspend her or take any type of action because of what has been posted on twitter without seeing how things actually develop.


I was under the impression that the abuse was somewhat both-sided but Natasha was much more of the aggressor. Didn’t hear about the case of abuse thing. I doubt Natasha has much of a case tbh, unless she too has photos and timelines of events that she can produce. I tended to believe much of what Jacqueline said (sorry I mislabeled her as the ex-gf when really they had gotten married), and maybe I shouldn’t have, but generally speaking, I still do.


Given that it has gone to court it would seem that it’s more than just her word that the lawyers are taking. I mean I don’t know exactly how all lawyers work, but it would seem to me for the outside looking in they would only file cases or take cases to court they believe they have a chance to win so it wouldn’t be the best to just file going based on her word alone considering all that has already been made public. (I don’t remember which thread, but I recall reading it in a thread here and a person saying that given she would be committing perjury because she is now making sworn statements in the court it makes it seem less likely it is exactly as it is being portrayed by what was posted on Twitter.)



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 09/10/19 3:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GEF34 wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
GEF34 wrote:
Didn’t Natasha Howard actually file a case of abuse with the court against her ex wife. If she actually has a case pending in which she is accusing that person of causing the abuse where as everything against her is just twitter posts, perhaps there is more to the story and if she is claiming to be the abused one as opposed the abuser I don’t think the league or the team should be quick to just suspend her or take any type of action because of what has been posted on twitter without seeing how things actually develop.


I was under the impression that the abuse was somewhat both-sided but Natasha was much more of the aggressor. Didn’t hear about the case of abuse thing. I doubt Natasha has much of a case tbh, unless she too has photos and timelines of events that she can produce. I tended to believe much of what Jacqueline said (sorry I mislabeled her as the ex-gf when really they had gotten married), and maybe I shouldn’t have, but generally speaking, I still do.


Given that it has gone to court it would seem that it’s more than just her word that the lawyers are taking. I mean I don’t know exactly how all lawyers work, but it would seem to me for the outside looking in they would only file cases or take cases to court they believe they have a chance to win so it wouldn’t be the best to just file going based on her word alone considering all that has already been made public. (I don’t remember which thread, but I recall reading it in a thread here and a person saying that given she would be committing perjury because she is now making sworn statements in the court it makes it seem less likely it is exactly as it is being portrayed by what was posted on Twitter.)


Yeah, I mean, it's possible Jacqueline is fabricating stuff and things are much less one-sided on Natasha. The process sure sounds like it's playing itself out, but much more privately. Like I said, I didn't even realize it had gone to court like that. The Storm org. may have had to pause their own investigation to let the court stuff happen... maybe I shouldn't have been so quick to crucify them. At this point it's possible they can't legally speak out without there being consequences, I suppose.
I think I just wanted everything to be dealt with asap so that we could all just put it behind us, but unfortunately the legal system can't be rushed. And whoever is guilty, whether it's one of them or both of them, shouldn't be getting away with it; no one should get away with domestic violence. It could then be a while before we hear anything official, from anywhere. Hopefully it'll get wrapped up before the start of next season, but maybe that's wishful thinking, too Neutral


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 09/10/19 9:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What bothers me most is the cone of silence around the whole issue, as if it never happened or didn't matter.

The WNBA, it seems to me, has an obligation to stand up for protecting women from domestic violence, much more so than men's leagues -- and certainly failed the test with Howard.



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Force10rulz



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PostPosted: 09/10/19 10:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
GEF34 wrote:
Didn’t Natasha Howard actually file a case of abuse with the court against her ex wife. If she actually has a case pending in which she is accusing that person of causing the abuse where as everything against her is just twitter posts, perhaps there is more to the story and if she is claiming to be the abused one as opposed the abuser I don’t think the league or the team should be quick to just suspend her or take any type of action because of what has been posted on twitter without seeing how things actually develop.


I was under the impression that the abuse was somewhat both-sided but Natasha was much more of the aggressor. Didn’t hear about the case of abuse thing. I doubt Natasha has much of a case tbh, unless she too has photos and timelines of events that she can produce. I tended to believe much of what Jacqueline said (sorry I mislabeled her as the ex-gf when really they had gotten married), and maybe I shouldn’t have, but generally speaking, I still do.



How do you know if Natasha’s case is less credible? Do you know them? If not then you can’t judge either.



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