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pilight
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 Posted: 09/06/18 8:44 am ::: Women coaches |
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http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?p=1542850#1542850
| shades wrote: |
What about the quick firing of women coaches compared to men?
Is that something you can demonstrate graphically? |
The stats don't really bear it out.
44% of male coaches have careers of two seasons or less, compared to 37% of female coaches. That's being unfair to the guys, since women are far more likely to get stuck with interim jobs then not retained. Take those out and 41% of male coaches have careers of two seasons or less compared to 25% of female coaches.
25% of male coaches have gotten second jobs compared to 26% of female coaches.
Among coaches with winning records, 60% of the men have remained long enough to reach 100 wins compared to 60% of the women who have done so. Male coaches are more likely to have 200 wins, but that's mostly an artifact from the early days of the league when the male coaches being hired had much better qualifications than the female coaches.
Overall male coaches have been more successful coaches, but again that's largely due to the poor qualifications of female coaches from the early years of the league.
Look at the WNBA coaches from 1997
Nancy Darsch, who had a decent record at Ohio State but had a substantial downturn once all of Tara Vanderveer's recruits were gone.
Linda Hill-MacDonald, available because she'd been 60 games under .500 at Minnesota.
Marynell Meadors, available because she went 22-63 in her last three years at Florida State.
Cheryl Miller, with less than 60 games of head coaching experience.
Mary Murphy, with a career record of 87-135 as a college coach.
Linda Sharp, who's coaching skills at USC consisted of being able to write Cheryl Miller's name on a lineup card. The Ladies of Troy tanked badly when she couldn't do that anymore.
Denise Taylor, who had about 80 games of head coaching experience, none in a major conference.
Van Chancellor, 439 wins and a .740 winning percentage in the SEC, including 19 consecutive winning seasons.
Are you really shocked at which one took home the title?
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Last edited by pilight on 09/06/18 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 09/06/18 9:38 am ::: Re: Women coaches |
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| pilight wrote: |
| shades wrote: |
What about the quick firing of women coaches compared to men?
Is that something you can demonstrate graphically? |
The stats don't really bear it out.
44% of male coaches have careers of two seasons or less, compared to 37% of female coaches. That's being unfair to the guys, since women are far more likely to get stuck with interim jobs then not retained. Take those out and 41% of male coaches have careers of two seasons or less compared to 25% of female coaches.
25% of male coaches have gotten second jobs compared to 26% of female coaches.
Among coaches with winning records, 60% of the men have remained long enough to reach 100 wins compared to 60% of the women who have done so. Male coaches are more likely to have 200 wins, but that's mostly an artifact from the early days of the league when the male coaches being hired had much better qualifications than the female coaches.
Overall male coaches have been more successful coaches, but again that's largely due to the poor qualifications of female coaches from the early years of the league.
Look at the WNBA coaches from 1997
Nancy Darsch, who had a decent record at Ohio State but had a substantial downturn once all of Tara Vanderveer's recruits were gone.
Linda Hill-MacDonald, available because she'd been 60 games under .500 at Minnesota.
Marynell Meadors, available because she went 22-63 in her last three years at Florida State.
Cheryl Miller, with less than 60 games of head coaching experience.
Mary Murphy, with a career record of 87-135 as a college coach.
Linda Sharp, who's coaching skills at USC consisted of being able to write Cheryl Miller's name on a lineup card. The Ladies of Troy tanked badly when she couldn't do that anymore.
Denise Taylor, who had about 80 games of head coaching experience, none in a major conference.
Van Chancellor, 439 wins and a .740 winning percentage in the SEC, including 19 consecutive winning seasons.
Are you really shocked at which one took home the title? |
Great stuff, as always ...
This board would be so much worse without you. Thanks, and thanks again, for everything ...
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Randy
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| Posted: 09/06/18 10:13 am ::: |
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| Great analysis.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 09/06/18 1:00 pm ::: |
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| I feel like there's some vital context missing from the OP.
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Randy
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| Posted: 09/06/18 2:02 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| I feel like there's some vital context missing from the OP. |
I don't know what you were looking for, but when Amber Stocks got fired there was a suggestion that women coaches are getting fired more quickly or given less time to produce than men have. This may have also come up before. So pilight did this to address the issue starting with the quote shown. Not sure what thread that was pulled from however.
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Silky Johnson
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| Posted: 09/06/18 2:07 pm ::: |
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| Okay, what do the numbers say about women getting re-hired, relative to the men?
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pilight
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| Posted: 09/06/18 2:18 pm ::: |
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I added a link to Shades original post above. Started a separate thread so we wouldn't crowd out the Sky discussion.
| Quote: |
| Okay, what do the numbers say about women getting re-hired, relative to the men? |
As I mentioned in the original post, 25% of male coaches have gotten second jobs compared to 26% of female coaches. How else would you like it broken down?
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Silky Johnson
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| Posted: 09/06/18 2:44 pm ::: |
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Well, off the top of my head, I know that at least three men (Brian Agler, Dan Hughes, Fred Williams) have gotten a third head coaching job, compared to one woman (Anne Donovan). How does that break down overall?
I feel like Hughes is the most egregious because he's the only one of those four who didn't make it to the Finals at least once in either of this first two stops before getting hired a third time.
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pilight
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| Posted: 09/06/18 4:41 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
Well, off the top of my head, I know that at least three men (Brian Agler, Dan Hughes, Fred Williams) have gotten a third head coaching job, compared to one woman (Anne Donovan). How does that break down overall?
I feel like Hughes is the most egregious because he's the only one of those four who didn't make it to the Finals at least once in either of this first two stops before getting hired a third time. |
Bill Laimbeer is the only other one who's had three head coaching jobs.
That's not a large enough data set to say much of anything. Maybe Lin Dunn or Marynell Meadors could have gotten a third job (even though they were both pushing 70 when they finished their second jobs). Otherwise it goes back to the poor quality and qualifications of the women who got hired in the early days of the league.
Hughes not making the finals in his interim stint in Charlotte shouldn't really count against him. Is anyone going to not hire Taj McWilliams because she went out in the first round this year?
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Silky Johnson
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| Posted: 09/06/18 5:23 pm ::: |
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I don't keep track of the Wings so much: has she already been fired?
I couldn't see Meadors getting another job, after the blowup with McCoughtry. Dunn, maybe.
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pilight
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| Posted: 09/06/18 5:26 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| I don't keep track of the Wings so much: has she already been fired? |
She was an interim coach. I expect a search, perhaps with her getting an interview.
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tfan
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| Posted: 09/06/18 6:25 pm ::: |
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Are you counting interim coaches and coaches who left due to a better offer?
Can we get a list of male coaches who were fired in two years or less?
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Shades
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| Posted: 09/07/18 11:33 am ::: |
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Active male retread coaches
Hughes (17 yrs) 0🏆 but 1 still possible
Thibault (16 yrs) 0🏆 but 1 still possible
Agler (15 yrs) 2🏆
Laimbeer (14 yrs) 3🏆
Recently active male retread coach
Williams (10 yrs) 0🏆
[we’ll wait and see if he becomes active again]
Active male coach on first stint
Miller (3 yrs) 0🏆
Active female retread coaches
Chatman (8 yrs) 0🏆
Brondello (6 yrs) 1🏆
Active female coaches on first stint
Reeve (9 yrs) 4🏆
Collen (1 yr) 0🏆
Smith (1 yr) 0🏆
Recently active female coach on first stint
Stocks (2 yrs) 0🏆
Among active and recently active coaches
Men
6🏆 in 75 yrs = 0.08🏆/yr
(Included 🏆 for this yr)
Women
5🏆 in 27 yrs = 0.185🏆/yr
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