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Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 05/16/19 8:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Phoenix has too many guards and no true backup for Griner. Mercury should make a trade for Lavender. Cunningham for Lavender straight up?

Come on dude. We've just been going on about their cap situation, and we've been talking about LA wanting to dump Lavender's salary for ages. Dirt cheap second-round rookie for a max salary doesn't work for Phoenix.

Turner's a 5, anyway.



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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 05/16/19 12:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
The interesting thing is, if you do the maths, they can't keep 12 unless one of the cuts is Lyttle, Carson or Mitchell (or they find someone who'll take Little off their hands). So I have them looking something like this (with obvious fluidity in places and questionable orders):

January/Mitchell
Taurasi/Y.Turner/Cunningham
Bonner/Carson/Talbot
Lyttle/Little/Smith
Griner/B.Turner

That's 13. You either cut Lyttle, cut Carson, cut Mitchell, or cut two of the cheap group (Talbot, Y.Turner, B.Turner, Cunningham, Smith).

(all assuming Megdal's data is correct)


Richyyy wrote:
I'm honestly not sure what they're going to do, to the extent that I wonder if I'm missing something. I could imagine, say, Cunningham being cut - she's a second-round pick, after all - but someone else off that cheap list as well seems a bit much. B.Turner and Smith were both first round picks this year, and Y.Turner and Talbot have both been useful pieces at times. But you don't normally sign vet free agents like Carson and Lyttle with any intention of cutting them, and Mitchell's shooting has proven important in the past (plus Taurasi's injury makes her more necessary early in the year). Assuming I'm right, whoever gets cut here is immediately going to be on the lists of options for other teams.

The move Phoenix would probably like to make, given the ugly numbers last year, is getting rid of Little's guaranteed money. But while I still think she has her uses as a smart, savvy vet, I don't know if anyone would want her on that contract.



Richyyy, I was conducting a similar analysis last evening.

The other wrinkles with Phoenix's roster decisions are "age" and "player development." As of now, Phoenix will have the oldest team in the WNBA for the 2019 season.
--- Briann January, Diana Taurasi, Sancho Lyttle, Camille Little, Essence Carson, and Leilani Mitchell are all at least 32 years old.
--- DeWanna Bonner and Yvonne Turner will both turn 32 years old this year.

With Diana Taurasi turning 37 this year, the window of time to compete for another WNBA title is incredibly short. Yes, Taurasi is amazing, but she cannot be amazing forever. And it is possible she may not want to play more than a few years (I could see her playing in the WNBA in 2019 and 2020 and the 2020 Olympics, before deciding to retire).

Also, given the fact that Taurasi/Bonner/Brittney Griner combined for nearly 60 points per game last year and Lyttle (before her injury) and January each averaged between 7-8 ppg, Phoenix was very top heavy.

Phoenix needs to worry about playing heavy minutes among its core, but simultaneously needs younger players to step in and contribute right away and younger players who can be developed.

This is my ideal roster:

PG: January/Mitchell
SG: Taurasi/Y. Turner/Cunningham
SF: Bonner/Carson/Talbot
PF: Lyttle/Smith
C: Griner/B.Turner

Rotation-wise, this roster gives a little flexibility:

-- Bonner can slide to the four, if need be (and which she successfully did last year).
-- Smith can give spot minutes at center.
-- Cunningham, at her height and with her shooting range, can rotate between the two and three, depending on how she handles the defensive assignment.

This roster also gives Phoenix three-point shooting from four positions. And Griner greatly expanded her range at Baylor and in the W and is a weapon from 15' and in. This also takes her away from the glass, where she is only an average rebounder, but still the best on the Mercury...and one of Phoenix's weakness is rebounding (last in the WNBA in offensive boards per game last year and 8th in defensive caroms per contest).

In terms advanced stats for the players listed above, Camille Little had the second-worst offensive rating (95.5, the worst defensive rating (99.2), and the second-worst net rating (-3.7).

Find a way to get ride of Camille Little as a player. Maybe have her retire and joint the front office in some capacity. Or figure out a trade for her (with a little incentive thrown in for another team taking on her salary).


Tally24



Joined: 14 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: 05/16/19 12:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I just want Cunningham to make the final roster. And I’m so tired of Little.
myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
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PostPosted: 05/16/19 4:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Phoenix has too many guards and no true backup for Griner.


I totally don't get the Gulich for Turner trade. Turner played the 4 in college and is much less of a 5 than Gulich. Gulich is showing she belongs in the league. Turner has yet to do so. I guess it is better for Gulich to be somewhere she may get a few minutes than to sit on the bench in Phoenix, but I fail to see why this was a good idea from the Merc's perspective.



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TotalCardinalMove



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PostPosted: 05/16/19 4:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Phoenix has too many guards and no true backup for Griner.


I totally don't get the Gulich for Turner trade. Turner played the 4 in college and is much less of a 5 than Gulich. Gulich is showing she belongs in the league. Turner has yet to do so. I guess it is better for Gulich to be somewhere she may get a few minutes than to sit on the bench in Phoenix, but I fail to see why this was a good idea from the Merc's perspective.


Simple answer: It wasn’t.

I don’t think Brianna Turner belongs on a WNBA roster this season. Especially not on a team that thinks and wants to be contending.


hangtyme24



Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 2330



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PostPosted: 05/17/19 1:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
The interesting thing is, if you do the maths, they can't keep 12 unless one of the cuts is Lyttle, Carson or Mitchell (or they find someone who'll take Little off their hands). So I have them looking something like this (with obvious fluidity in places and questionable orders):

January/Mitchell
Taurasi/Y.Turner/Cunningham
Bonner/Carson/Talbot
Lyttle/Little/Smith
Griner/B.Turner

That's 13. You either cut Lyttle, cut Carson, cut Mitchell, or cut two of the cheap group (Talbot, Y.Turner, B.Turner, Cunningham, Smith).

(all assuming Megdal's data is correct)


pretty interesting stuff here. They will need to make a tough decision. Too bad they can't unload Little as part of the solution. If you're thinking about the future at all you want to keep Y. Turner, Cunningham, Smith, and probably B. Turner...but hard to do it with the current configuration.


The front office and coaching staff in Phoenix will have a tough decision to make. Is Little’s contract guaranteed?



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 05/17/19 11:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

hangtyme24 wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
The interesting thing is, if you do the maths, they can't keep 12 unless one of the cuts is Lyttle, Carson or Mitchell (or they find someone who'll take Little off their hands). So I have them looking something like this (with obvious fluidity in places and questionable orders):

January/Mitchell
Taurasi/Y.Turner/Cunningham
Bonner/Carson/Talbot
Lyttle/Little/Smith
Griner/B.Turner

That's 13. You either cut Lyttle, cut Carson, cut Mitchell, or cut two of the cheap group (Talbot, Y.Turner, B.Turner, Cunningham, Smith).

(all assuming Megdal's data is correct)


pretty interesting stuff here. They will need to make a tough decision. Too bad they can't unload Little as part of the solution. If you're thinking about the future at all you want to keep Y. Turner, Cunningham, Smith, and probably B. Turner...but hard to do it with the current configuration.


The front office and coaching staff in Phoenix will have a tough decision to make. Is Little’s contract guaranteed?


yep.



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Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 05/17/19 11:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lyttle didn’t play overseas.
They should have given her vet minimum ($56K) and made up the rest in no-overseas bonus of $24K.
Same with January (who they overpaid imo). She no long plays overseas. Pay her $26K below the max they gave her and make up the rest with the remaining no-overseas bonus.
I think the no-overseas bonus might even be up to $54K now.

That might be enough help them out of that dilemma. This front office isn’t as crafty as some of the others.



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CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 17866
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PostPosted: 05/17/19 11:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Lyttle didn’t play overseas.
They should have given her vet minimum ($56K) and made up the rest in no-overseas bonus of $24K.
Same with January (who they overpaid imo). She no long plays overseas. Pay her $26K below the max they gave her and make up the rest with the remaining no-overseas bonus.
I think the no-overseas bonus might even be up to $54K now.

That might be enough help them out of that dilemma. This front office isn’t as crafty as some of the others.


As an aside, January may decide to play overseas, as she left her assistant coach position at Arizona State (replaced by Nikki Blue) to focus on her playing career.

But yes, there are certainly decisions that the front office could have made with respect to salaries that might have helped in avoiding the current salary cap predicament.


root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 5105
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PostPosted: 05/17/19 12:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It looks to me like the Time Off Bonus is written into the contract and is included in the salary cap. Therefore, it is not a way to circumvent the team salary cap, although it can be used to get around the player max salary.

Quote:
Section 17. Time Off Bonuses.
(a) A Team shall be permitted to include a Time Off Bonus (as defined in Section 3(g) above) in any new Player Contract that is entered into with a Veteran Player after the date of this Agreement subject to the rules set forth below. A Player Contract entered into with a Veteran Player (either currently existing or entered into after the date of this Agreement) that does not contain a Time Off Bonus when signed may be amended to add one in accordance with the rules set forth below.

(b)(vi) All Time Off Bonuses for an Off-Season provided for in Player Contracts that were not previously cancelled in accordance with subparagraph (iv) above (whether or not the Time Off Bonus is earned by the player) shall be included for purposes of determining a Team’s Team Salary for the Salary Cap Year covering the Season preceding such Off-Season.



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Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 52124



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PostPosted: 05/17/19 1:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hmm... I could have sworn I read somewhere that it wasn’t included in cap calculations. It would explain Sims accepting $65,000 for a big role and some of the Lynx’s funky numbers. So they just raised the cap to compensate for the bonus? In that case, cap is too low.

Let’s just go no-cap and see who wants to win badly enough. Wink

First discussion of the bonus:
http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=79746



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CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 17866
Location: Phoenix


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PostPosted: 05/20/19 11:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Phoenix Mercury waived Emese Hof and Alexis Peterson.

https://www.wnba.com/transactions/


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 59301
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PostPosted: 05/21/19 3:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stephanie Talbot to the Lynx

https://lynx.wnba.com/news/minnesota-lynx-acquire-forward-stephanie-talbot/

Quote:
The Minnesota Lynx today announced the team has acquired forward Stephanie Talbot from the Phoenix Mercury in exchange for its second-round pick in the 2020 WNBA Draft



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toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 05/21/19 4:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Solves that problem.

PG: January/Mitchell
SG: Taurasi/Y.Turner/Cunningham
SF: Bonner/Carson
PF: Lyttle/Little/Smith
C: Griner/B.Turner



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Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 21369
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PostPosted: 05/21/19 4:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Solves that problem.

PG: January/Mitchell
SG: Taurasi/Y.Turner/Cunningham
SF: Bonner/Carson
PF: Lyttle/Little/Smith
C: Griner/B.Turner

Nope. For all the reasons gone into in great detail in previous posts on this thread.



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TotalCardinalMove



Joined: 13 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: 05/21/19 4:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Solves that problem.

PG: January/Mitchell
SG: Taurasi/Y.Turner/Cunningham
SF: Bonner/Carson
PF: Lyttle/Little/Smith
C: Griner/B.Turner

Nope. For all the reasons gone into in great detail in previous posts on this thread.


Really curious what they are doing here. With Talbot gone, I can’t imagine Cunningham not being a lock at this point, by virtue of them needing the shooting and depth at that spot now. Still over the cap by a lot, so I’m thinking one of those posts is on the move next.


Shades



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PostPosted: 05/21/19 4:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wonder if Reeve had an option to trade for Turner or Cunningham.
Cunningham has a higher ceiling, but Reeve probably wanted more experience in Talbot.



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miller40



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: 05/21/19 4:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TotalCardinalMove wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Solves that problem.

PG: January/Mitchell
SG: Taurasi/Y.Turner/Cunningham
SF: Bonner/Carson
PF: Lyttle/Little/Smith
C: Griner/B.Turner

Nope. For all the reasons gone into in great detail in previous posts on this thread.


Really curious what they are doing here. With Talbot gone, I can’t imagine Cunningham not being a lock at this point, by virtue of them needing the shooting and depth at that spot now. Still over the cap by a lot, so I’m thinking one of those posts is on the move next.


But at the same time, looking at their post depth, they’re in a tough spot when BG picks up her third foul in the second quarter for setting a moving screen.


TotalCardinalMove



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PostPosted: 05/21/19 4:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

miller40 wrote:
TotalCardinalMove wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Solves that problem.

PG: January/Mitchell
SG: Taurasi/Y.Turner/Cunningham
SF: Bonner/Carson
PF: Lyttle/Little/Smith
C: Griner/B.Turner

Nope. For all the reasons gone into in great detail in previous posts on this thread.


Really curious what they are doing here. With Talbot gone, I can’t imagine Cunningham not being a lock at this point, by virtue of them needing the shooting and depth at that spot now. Still over the cap by a lot, so I’m thinking one of those posts is on the move next.


But at the same time, looking at their post depth, they’re in a tough spot when BG picks up her third foul in the second quarter for setting a moving screen.


If it were me, I’d be feverishly looking for a way to dump Little and find an upgrade over B. Turner.


Shades



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PostPosted: 05/21/19 4:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If they could have moved Little, there would have been no need to move Talbot.

Now they need to move one more cheap contract.

PHX is failing at this.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 05/21/19 4:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TotalCardinalMove wrote:
Really curious what they are doing here.

Little does seem to have been injured for basically the whole of camp, which makes me wonder if that's going to help them out. Arica Carter's still hanging around, so I guess it could still be 12 if you add her and manage to remove Little's salary via some mechanic or another.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 05/21/19 4:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I know it is somewhere on this site but might as well ask here

when must teams make their final cuts by?


Shades



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PostPosted: 05/21/19 4:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
I know it is somewhere on this site but might as well ask here

when must teams make their final cuts by?


May 23.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 05/21/19 4:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Gotta suck to be traded away by your national team coach



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Shades



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PostPosted: 05/21/19 5:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Gotta suck to be traded away by your national team coach


She’s not the GM so that helps keep her hands clean.



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