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Dolan on the Liberty

 
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ClayK



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PostPosted: 12/17/18 10:37 am    ::: Dolan on the Liberty Reply Reply with quote

On why he's selling the WNBA's Liberty: "I don't know how to be successful with the Liberty. We've always tried to be helpful with the league, and I believe in the Liberty product. If you go to a Liberty game, they're fun basketball games to go to. But I'll be damned if I know how to get people to go to those games. ... We've pumped tons of marketing dollars, we've done everything we can to make the team successful, and people don't come. I think it's the time of year and the perception that the sport is not as good as the NBA."

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/25519902/james-dolan-unplugged



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 12/17/18 10:45 am    ::: Re: Dolan on the Liberty Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
On why he's selling the WNBA's Liberty: "I don't know how to be successful with the Liberty. We've always tried to be helpful with the league, and I believe in the Liberty product. If you go to a Liberty game, they're fun basketball games to go to. But I'll be damned if I know how to get people to go to those games. ... We've pumped tons of marketing dollars, we've done everything we can to make the team successful, and people don't come. I think it's the time of year and the perception that the sport is not as good as the NBA."

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/25519902/james-dolan-unplugged


He sure makes it sound appealing to a prospective buyer ...


Shades



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PostPosted: 12/17/18 12:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
On his support of President Donald Trump: "I've known him for a long time. I got married at Mar-a-Lago. I'm a member of Mar-a-Lago, and I support him as a friend. And you don't have to agree with everything that he's doing in order to support him. And he's, by the way, our president, and I don't understand people who wish our president to do badly. Why would you wish your president to do badly? It's like wishing that your milkman will bring you sour milk."


There’s a difference between wishing Trump would do badly and pointing out that he’s doing badly.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 12/17/18 2:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't know about the rest of Dolan's businesses, but until recently the solution for his teams has always been to throw money at their problems. Don't waste your time with the hard work of development. Just overpay for aging stars or trade half your team for selfish malcontents who put up gaudy numbers while losing. At one point, both the Knicks and Rangers had the highest payrolls in their respective sports and both teams were horrible. I've worked for large corporations, small companies, and one non-profit. I can tell you that few corporate executives have any ability to think outside the box. It's clear that the WNBA is different from men's sports. You need somebody with imagination who can come up with new ideas. Whoever buys the team should put a person in charge who has entrepreneurial or non-profit experience. They need someone who is resourceful and knows how to operate in survival mode -- not some fat cats who can only comprehend the obvious. For instance, how does a low profile arts institution like the Irish Arts Center, which operates out of a 99-seat theater, raise $54 million to build itself a new home in Manhattan? It's because their management has vision and drive. They believe in what they're doing and they know how to hustle. Those are the kinds of people you need to run the Liberty.



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PostPosted: 12/17/18 2:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I never understood the whole "it's not as good as the NBA" thing. There aren't any NBA games to watch in the summer anyways (Summer League is a joke).


pilight



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PostPosted: 12/17/18 2:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dolan has never had to make a business successful. He inherited or acquired already successful businesses and let them run.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 12/17/18 3:48 pm    ::: Re: Dolan on the Liberty Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
On why he's selling the WNBA's Liberty: "I don't know how to be successful with the Liberty. We've always tried to be helpful with the league, and I believe in the Liberty product. If you go to a Liberty game, they're fun basketball games to go to. But I'll be damned if I know how to get people to go to those games. ... We've pumped tons of marketing dollars, we've done everything we can to make the team successful, and people don't come. I think it's the time of year and the perception that the sport is not as good as the NBA."

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/25519902/james-dolan-unplugged


One could almost substitute the name for any WNBA team in what he said (save for 2-3 teams teams) and it would be accurate. Even the teams that are drawing better may not be telling the whole story. Recall that the Liberty were reporting 9-10k fans per game as well and suddenly those numbers were fluff and giveaways.


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PostPosted: 12/17/18 4:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

His best business decision might be starting a band.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Sg8YFGftg30" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 12/17/18 8:17 pm    ::: Re: Dolan on the Liberty Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
ClayK wrote:
On why he's selling the WNBA's Liberty: "I don't know how to be successful with the Liberty. We've always tried to be helpful with the league, and I believe in the Liberty product. If you go to a Liberty game, they're fun basketball games to go to. But I'll be damned if I know how to get people to go to those games. ... We've pumped tons of marketing dollars, we've done everything we can to make the team successful, and people don't come. I think it's the time of year and the perception that the sport is not as good as the NBA."

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/25519902/james-dolan-unplugged




One could almost substitute the name for any WNBA team in what he said (save for 2-3 teams teams) and it would be accurate. Even the teams that are drawing better may not be telling the whole story. Recall that the Liberty were reporting 9-10k fans per game as well and suddenly those numbers were fluff and giveaways.


Except the seats were actually full which makes me question th!e number he cites as high...discussed before so don't wanna go in circles but yeah I'm not fully buying his claim the butts don't lie



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Randy



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PostPosted: 12/17/18 8:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Before all this happened, I always thought the Liberty had great crowds. Dolan claimed at one point that several thousand tickets were given away. True or not, I don't know, but we do know that for many other teams the attendance numbers look bogus. Anyway, if he really wanted to sell the team seems like he wouldn't be saying this sort of thing.


josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 12/17/18 9:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Think maybe he is looking for a subsidy of some kind from someone or is playing some type of long term con game? Everyone here is very accurate when they say he sure isn't marketing the team very well.


tfan



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PostPosted: 12/17/18 9:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Dolan were to not say he has lost a lot of money on the Liberty he would get criticized for wanting to sell them. In talking about losses he isn't letting potential investors know anything that they wouldn't find out after looking at the books, and they would probably ask if the team was making money way before they got to looking at the books.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 12/17/18 10:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Before all this happened, I always thought the Liberty had great crowds. Dolan claimed at one point that several thousand tickets were given away. True or not, I don't know, but we do know that for many other teams the attendance numbers look bogus. Anyway, if he really wanted to sell the team seems like he wouldn't be saying this sort of thing.


In my view, it's folly to expect any logic from Hideous Lord Jimmy. This is the guy who, with the Liberty struggling in attendance, thought it would be great to bring in his sexual harasser BFF as president and (Jimmy hoped) part-owner of the team. This is the guy who, with Knicks' fans disgusted with the team's terrible record, thought it would be great to get into a serious public conflict with the beloved Charles Oakley. I could go on and on.

I've never heard any of Hideous Lord Jimmy's music. I'll give him credit for this: when he and his band are doing a gig, he will soar or flop onstage and it won't be because of Daddy. But, in terms of the MSG toys that Daddy Chuck gave to Jimmy, he's done a lousy job.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 12/17/18 10:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was flipping through some local sports channels and a reporter/talking head said Dolan was also considering selling the Knicks if the right offer came along.

I can't verify this but though it was interesting.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 12/17/18 10:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
I was flipping through some local sports channels and a reporter/talking head said Dolan was also considering selling the Knicks if the right offer came along.

I can't verify this but though it was interesting.


It's been reported in many places that he said that.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 12/17/18 10:53 pm    ::: Re: Dolan on the Liberty Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
ClayK wrote:
On why he's selling the WNBA's Liberty: "I don't know how to be successful with the Liberty. We've always tried to be helpful with the league, and I believe in the Liberty product. If you go to a Liberty game, they're fun basketball games to go to. But I'll be damned if I know how to get people to go to those games. ... We've pumped tons of marketing dollars, we've done everything we can to make the team successful, and people don't come. I think it's the time of year and the perception that the sport is not as good as the NBA."

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/25519902/james-dolan-unplugged


He sure makes it sound appealing to a prospective buyer ...


yep. appalling is right.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 12/18/18 1:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In 2017, it looked like 75%-80% of the lower bowl was filled in the 10 games I attended. That's probably a legit 8,500 to 9,000 fans. Not quite the official 9,888, but still substantial. As a certifiable cheap bastard, I'm always looking for freebies and discounts. I haven't seen a lot of free Liberty ticket offers -- at least not regularly and not in abundance. I did "win" tickets from a radio station in 2015. At halftime, they made us all take a picture together. There were maybe 25-30 people. I've also attended a couple of games free courtesy of the Liberty themselves as they tried to turn a partial subscriber into a full STH. They herded us into a room and made their pitch, but again it didn't look like much more than 30 people -- 40 tops. So, these efforts were a far cry from the 4,000-5,000 giveaways that management suddenly started claiming. OK, how else could they have given away the tickets? Well, schools and community groups are usually an outlet. However, if half of the crowd was made up of kids or large groups that attended together, wouldn't we notice? Groups tend to let you know that they're together by making collective noise, starting a wave or otherwise annoying their neighbors. In many cases, they wear matching T-shirts that identify their organization. However, I never noticed groups making up anything like half the crowd unless it was on camp day. In summary, MSG wants us to believe that they gave away 4k-5k tickets every game through a clandestine process that leads to inconspicuous results.Laughing I suppose anything is possible, but this sure needs explaining because it defies common sense.



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And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
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PostPosted: 12/18/18 1:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
In 2017, it looked like 75%-80% of the lower bowl was filled in the 10 games I attended. That's probably a legit 8,500 to 9,000 fans. Not quite the official 9,888, but still substantial. As a certifiable cheap bastard, I'm always looking for freebies and discounts. I haven't seen a lot of free Liberty ticket offers -- at least not regularly and not in abundance. I did "win" tickets from a radio station in 2015. At halftime, they made us all take a picture together. There were maybe 25-30 people. I've also attended a couple of games free courtesy of the Liberty themselves as they tried to turn a partial subscriber into a full STH. They herded us into a room and made their pitch, but again it didn't look like much more than 30 people -- 40 tops. So, these efforts were a far cry from the 4,000-5,000 giveaways that management suddenly started claiming. OK, how else could they have given away the tickets? Well, schools and community groups are usually an outlet. However, if half of the crowd was made up of kids or large groups that attended together, wouldn't we notice? Groups tend to let you know that they're together by making collective noise, starting a wave or otherwise annoying their neighbors. In many cases, they wear matching T-shirts that identify their organization. However, I never noticed groups making up anything like half the crowd unless it was on camp day. In summary, MSG wants us to believe that they gave away 4k-5k tickets every game through a clandestine process that leads to inconspicuous results.Laughing I suppose anything is possible, but this sure needs explaining because it defies common sense.


I have no inside information and wasn't at nearly as many games at the Garden as you and some others here. But the specifics you raise are quite persuasive.

I'd just add one thing. The MSG claim that they gave away 4,000 to 5,000 tickets for every game through whatever clandestine process is dubious enough. But even if you handed out on the street or somehow distributed 4,000 to 5,000 free tickets for each home game, how many of those 4,000 to 5,000 people would actually GO to the game? Surely many wouldn't.

I believe you're right. The MSG claim "defies common sense."



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Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 12/18/18 6:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This and this...when I say the numbers they claim don't match the butts THIS IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT thanks Bob and Root

Bob Lamm wrote:
root_thing wrote:
In 2017, it looked like 75%-80% of the lower bowl was filled in the 10 games I attended. That's probably a legit 8,500 to 9,000 fans. Not quite the official 9,888, but still substantial. As a certifiable cheap bastard, I'm always looking for freebies and discounts. I haven't seen a lot of free Liberty ticket offers -- at least not regularly and not in abundance. I did "win" tickets from a radio station in 2015. At halftime, they made us all take a picture together. There were maybe 25-30 people. I've also attended a couple of games free courtesy of the Liberty themselves as they tried to turn a partial subscriber into a full STH. They herded us into a room and made their pitch, but again it didn't look like much more than 30 people -- 40 tops. So, these efforts were a far cry from the 4,000-5,000 giveaways that management suddenly started claiming. OK, how else could they have given away the tickets? Well, schools and community groups are usually an outlet. However, if half of the crowd was made up of kids or large groups that attended together, wouldn't we notice? Groups tend to let you know that they're together by making collective noise, starting a wave or otherwise annoying their neighbors. In many cases, they wear matching T-shirts that identify their organization. However, I never noticed groups making up anything like half the crowd unless it was on camp day. In summary, MSG wants us to believe that they gave away 4k-5k tickets every game through a clandestine process that leads to inconspicuous results.Laughing I suppose anything is possible, but this sure needs explaining because it defies common sense.


I have no inside information and wasn't at nearly as many games at the Garden as you and some others here. But the specifics you raise are quite persuasive.

I'd just add one thing. The MSG claim that they gave away 4,000 to 5,000 tickets for every game through whatever clandestine process is dubious enough. But even if you handed out on the street or somehow distributed 4,000 to 5,000 free tickets for each home game, how many of those 4,000 to 5,000 people would actually GO to the game? Surely many wouldn't.

I believe you're right. The MSG claim "defies common sense."



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tfan



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PostPosted: 12/18/18 6:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/wnba/2018/11/16/a-year-later-the-new-york-liberty-still-for-sale/38541601/

This may have been mentioned already, but I found this in a photo caption:

Quote:
FILE - In this Oct. 20, 2018, file photo, Madison Square Garden chairman James Dolan, center, watches an NBA basketball game between the New York Knicks and the Boston Celtics at Madison Square Garden in New York. It's been a year since Dolan announced his intent to sell the New York Liberty, and the team is still on the market. There have been several potential buyers and a few have gotten close to purchasing the team, but for various reasons all the potential deals fell through. Even without a new owner on the horizon and the Liberty in the same situation as last November, there is no danger of the team ceasing to exist this winter. (AP Photo/Mary Altaffer, File)(Photo: The Associated Press)


That article also says that the Liberty averaged 1,886 fans at the 2,319 seat arena (the population of Westchester County is ~ 980,000) , and yet they still lost less money than at MSG due to the costs being almost 1/20th.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 12/18/18 10:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There are always "potential buyers" and "near deals" but in the 20+ years of the league's existence, no franchise has ever sold for actual dollars.



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