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WfanFrJmp



Joined: 24 May 2016
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PostPosted: 02/20/19 9:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

stever wrote:
WfanFrJmp wrote:
So, this reminded me that LA still has the rights to Tolo:
https://twitter.com/LA_Sparks/status/1097980881778618368

Does anyone know if she's planning to come over? If she does, do we think this changes the game regarding the desire to get Liz or does Tolo become trade bait?


Somewhere in the last 30 days or so, I read a quote from Tolo in an Aussie newspaper that said she's still kinda' rehabbing and had no plans to play here this summer...wanted to get 100% healthy for Tokyo, IIRC.


Gotcha! Thanks!


WfanFrJmp



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PostPosted: 02/21/19 6:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sooo hmmm, if these clips are an indication, Alina looks pretty good!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIbJY3WGP_I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LExeSXCDbcI


hangtyme24



Joined: 21 May 2006
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PostPosted: 02/21/19 8:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WfanFrJmp wrote:
Sooo hmmm, if these clips are an indication, Alina looks pretty good!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIbJY3WGP_I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LExeSXCDbcI


I like what I've seen from all the YouTube vids of hers. She's a big guard who can hit the 3 and attacks the basket. She might challenge Sims for the starting spot, or become our 6th player off the bench. The fact that she plays with Gray as well is a plus. I expect Chelsea to re-sign soon. Hopefully lol



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Last edited by hangtyme24 on 02/21/19 10:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
WfanFrJmp



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PostPosted: 02/21/19 9:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

hangtyme24 wrote:
WfanFrJmp wrote:
Sooo hmmm, if these clips are an indication, Alina looks pretty good!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIbJY3WGP_I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LExeSXCDbcI


I like what I've seen from all the YouTube vids of hers. She's a big guard who can hit the 3 and attacks the basket. She might challenge Sims for the starting spot, or become our 6th player off the bench. The fact thatbshe plays with Gray as well is a plus. I expect Chelsea to re-sign soon. Hopefully lol


100% agreed to everything you said, particularly that last part! lol!


hangtyme24



Joined: 21 May 2006
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PostPosted: 02/21/19 11:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="WfanFrJmp"]
hangtyme24 wrote:
WfanFrJmp wrote:
Sooo hmmm, if these clips are an indication, Alina looks pretty good!:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIbJY3WGP_I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LExeSXCDbcI


I like what I've seen from all the YouTube vids of hers. She's a big guard who can hit the 3 and attacks the basket. She might challenge Sims for the starting spot, or become our 6th player off the bench. The fact thatbshe plays with Gray as well is a plus. I expect Chelsea to re-sign soon. Hopefully lol


100% agreed to everything you said, particularly that last part! lol![/q9uote]


Alina Iagupova scored 24pts today in their Eurocup victory. Gray had 9pts.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 02/21/19 11:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Oh if you want to get excited about Iagupova, you can look at all her EuroCup stats: http://www.fiba.basketball/eurocupwomen/18-19/player/Alina-Iagupova . 52% from the field, including 47% from three for 21p/5r/6a per game. She can absolutely play. But we've just seen too many players who are successful in Europe end up as afterthoughts in the WNBA, so I'll get excited when it actually happens. So many players have had a really hard time adapting.

In an ideal world she'll make the LA roster and decide that sticking around is more important than EuroBasket Women 2019. Ukraine are in Great Britain's group...



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Michelle89



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PostPosted: 02/22/19 2:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Oh if you want to get excited about Iagupova, you can look at all her EuroCup stats: http://www.fiba.basketball/eurocupwomen/18-19/player/Alina-Iagupova . 52% from the field, including 47% from three for 21p/5r/6a per game. She can absolutely play. But we've just seen too many players who are successful in Europe end up as afterthoughts in the WNBA, so I'll get excited when it actually happens. So many players have had a really hard time adapting.

In an ideal world she'll make the LA roster and decide that sticking around is more important than EuroBasket Women 2019. Ukraine are in Great Britain's group...


She is a pure scorer though not only a pure shooter. So that really helps because she can score in multiple ways. Also she is big and very strong guard. She is ripped and we didnt have many of those from overseas Laughing
She is not starter material but she can give you 15 minutes off the bench and provide some offense.



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Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 02/22/19 11:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Interesting short sample and if I was playing with Gray, I would enjoy lots of open looks too. In 17 games she shot 33% which is a better sample than 2 games. Plus watching the game you posted I just kept seeing matador defense. Great to see Chelsea on the floor but why the heck hasn't she signed yet, that's when I will get excited.



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PostPosted: 02/22/19 12:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Gray's only played about a third of the season for them so whatever looks Iagupova's been getting haven't had that much to do with her. If you want to throw the EuroCup and Turkish league stats together to maximise the sample size this year, she's shot 39% from three. In a lot of cases they're playing teams with significantly less talent than them, but she's a part of that (and has led their scoring most of the season).

It has the chance to be a much more meaningful pickup than someone like Ben Abdelkader last year, and she's in her prime rather than a youngster you hope develops further like Zandalasini. I'm just wary. LA packed their bench with useful Euros a couple of years ago and they basically spent all year on the bench.



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WfanFrJmp



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PostPosted: 02/22/19 6:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Gray's only played about a third of the season for them so whatever looks Iagupova's been getting haven't had that much to do with her. If you want to throw the EuroCup and Turkish league stats together to maximise the sample size this year, she's shot 39% from three. In a lot of cases they're playing teams with significantly less talent than them, but she's a part of that (and has led their scoring most of the season).

It has the chance to be a much more meaningful pickup than someone like Ben Abdelkader last year, and she's in her prime rather than a youngster you hope develops further like Zandalasini. I'm just wary. LA packed their bench with useful Euros a couple of years ago and they basically spent all year on the bench.


I definitely hear you but they have a different coach who hopefully doesn't let half of the assets become glorified cheerleaders. No disrespect to Agler but that is pretty much what happened. Having a short bench is common but goodness nearly half the team really didn't play. Things should be interesting for sure!


hangtyme24



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PostPosted: 02/23/19 12:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WfanFrJmp wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Gray's only played about a third of the season for them so whatever looks Iagupova's been getting haven't had that much to do with her. If you want to throw the EuroCup and Turkish league stats together to maximise the sample size this year, she's shot 39% from three. In a lot of cases they're playing teams with significantly less talent than them, but she's a part of that (and has led their scoring most of the season).

It has the chance to be a much more meaningful pickup than someone like Ben Abdelkader last year, and she's in her prime rather than a youngster you hope develops further like Zandalasini. I'm just wary. LA packed their bench with useful Euros a couple of years ago and they basically spent all year on the bench.


I definitely hear you but they have a different coach who hopefully doesn't let half of the assets become glorified cheerleaders. No disrespect to Agler but that is pretty much what happened. Having a short bench is common but goodness nearly half the team really didn't play. Things should be interesting for sure!


I was gonna say the same thing as Wfan. And although Agler didn’t play the Euros much, we still won it all that season 🤷🏿‍♂️
I think Iagupova has a chance to contribute to this team. She’s a big scoring guard who can shoot. I’m hoping her game translates well to the W, because LA could use her talents. I’m optimistic with this signing. Just hope they hurry up and sign Chelsea next.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 02/23/19 1:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

hangtyme24 wrote:
Just hope they hurry up and sign Chelsea next.


I’m guessing Gray is part of the Sparks’ trade offer. I have a feeling everything is on hold until Ionescu decides if she’s entering this year’s draft.

Let’s say the Sparks’ offer is Gray + #7 or whatever variation.

The Aces’ offer might vary based on whether or not Ionescu declares.
For example,
Ionescu doesn’t declare:
Jefferson + #1
Ionescu does declare so that #1 gains value:
Jefferson + (swap of first round picks w/DAL)
Or if Aces want to keep #1 with Ionescu declaring:
Jefferson + (Choice of player not named Plum/McBride/Wilson) + first in 2020

Or whatever variation. I’m just illustrating why the free agency seems to be put on hold.



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hangtyme24



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PostPosted: 02/23/19 7:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
hangtyme24 wrote:
Just hope they hurry up and sign Chelsea next.


I’m guessing Gray is part of the Sparks’ trade offer. I have a feeling everything is on hold until Ionescu decides if she’s entering this year’s draft.

Let’s say the Sparks’ offer is Gray + #7 or whatever variation.

The Aces’ offer might vary based on whether or not Ionescu declares.
For example,
Ionescu doesn’t declare:
Jefferson + #1
Ionescu does declare so that #1 gains value:
Jefferson + (swap of first round picks w/DAL)
Or if Aces want to keep #1 with Ionescu declaring:
Jefferson + (Choice of player not named Plum/McBride/Wilson) + first in 2020

Or whatever variation. I’m just illustrating why the free agency seems to be put on hold.


As long as LA searched for a quality PG to pair with Parker, I think it would be a huge mistake to trade Gray for Cambage. Now if Liz showed up consistently that would be another story, but who’s gonna get her the ball? Parker gonna play pg? Sims? I think Penny knows how important Gray is to this team. She better not do anything wild lol



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canadaball



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PostPosted: 02/23/19 7:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
hangtyme24 wrote:
Just hope they hurry up and sign Chelsea next.


I’m guessing Gray is part of the Sparks’ trade offer. I have a feeling everything is on hold until Ionescu decides if she’s entering this year’s draft.

Let’s say the Sparks’ offer is Gray + #7 or whatever variation.

The Aces’ offer might vary based on whether or not Ionescu declares.
For example,
Ionescu doesn’t declare:
Jefferson + #1
Ionescu does declare so that #1 gains value:
Jefferson + (swap of first round picks w/DAL)
Or if Aces want to keep #1 with Ionescu declaring:
Jefferson + (Choice of player not named Plum/McBride/Wilson) + first in 2020

Or whatever variation. I’m just illustrating why the free agency seems to be put on hold.


Please explain how LA can afford to give up Gray. I see a very expensive roster (6 very highly paid players not counting the Gray/?Cam slot). They cannot even afford Williams (no pg there anyway). The only real guard on the roster should they trade Chelsea is Sims, coming off the worst year of her career, and a shaky pg to boot. Wiese has yet to show she belongs in league. Beyond Gray, this roster has almost no outside shooting (Sims shot 19%/27% last two years, and Beard/Pratt are not 3 point shooters)..


Luuuc



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PostPosted: 02/23/19 8:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't know if there are other factors at play, but purely from a basketball point of view I think Gray is just as irreplaceable to the Sparks as Parker, so if I am LA there's no way I'm including her in a trade that doesn't get me back a seriously good guard. Especially considering the lack of scoring power at the other backcourt positions atm.
Gray + #7 for Liz? I mean I love Liz, but no effin way would I do that. I wouldn't even do Gray for Liz as a straight swap.

I respect Liz for walking her own path through (and around) the WNBA, but one of the prices for that is reduced bargaining power/value in situations like this. LA will be fine without her, so there's no need for them to overpay for Cambage.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 02/23/19 8:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Absolutely. If Dallas said Gray had to be included or there's no deal, LA hang up the phone.

In terms of genuine top-end players, right now they've got one guard and two bigs. What's the logic in turning that into zero guards and three bigs?



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Shades



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PostPosted: 02/23/19 9:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

hangtyme24 wrote:
Now if Liz showed up consistently that would be another story, but who’s gonna get her the ball?


If she pledged a commitment, would it be worth it?

hangtyme24 wrote:
Parker gonna play pg?


She’ll be a point forward if Ogwumike is still on the team, which she should be if Gray is the trade piece.

hangtyme24 wrote:
Sims?


She played a couple years at PG with Griner back in the day.

hangtyme24 wrote:
I think Penny knows how important Gray is to this team.


Okay, so then there should be no reason not to sign her. Where’s the announcement?

hangtyme24 wrote:
She better not do anything wild.


You mean like signing Derek Fisher? She’s not wild like that.
I don’t think you guys have to worry that much. Dallas is probably
more interested in dealing with the Aces.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 02/23/19 9:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

canadaball wrote:
Please explain how LA can afford to give up Gray.


I’m not saying they can. I’m just exploring a possible explanation why she isn’t signed yet. This isn’t a prediction by me, even though I’m one of the few with the guts to make a prediction.

canadaball wrote:
I see a very expensive roster (6 very highly paid players not counting the Gray/?Cam slot).


Gray would be one of the expensive ones.

canadaball wrote:
They cannot even afford Williams.


They might be able to sign her since they let Carson go. Williams seems to be on hold too. Like I said before, Boyd not being signed could be connected too.

canadaball wrote:
The only real guard on the roster should they trade Chelsea is Sims, coming off the worst year of her career, and a shaky pg to boot.


They gave Sims a three year deal, so I think they have confidence in her.
If you want to make a championship omelette, you gotta be willing to break a few eggs. Do you want the same old roster, except with Fisher as a coach?



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Last edited by Shades on 02/23/19 9:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
Shades



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PostPosted: 02/23/19 9:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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canadaball



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PostPosted: 02/23/19 11:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LA currently carries 5 max contracts (Beard, Sims, Lavender, Neka and Parker), which comes to at least $575k; in addition, they just replaced Carson, with restricted free agent Ruffin Pratt (Wash did not match). It is fair to guess that Pratt did not sign for peanuts, which is why I used the term "six very highly paid" players. Throw in the max contract that goes to Gray (or Cam if there were a trade), and LA is close $800k for just 7 players. Now add 3 low paid players say Valdeeva ($44k), Weise (47k), and Samuelson ($38k) plus the upcoming first round pick ($49.5k) , and they are just about at the cap. There is zero room to sign Williams,(made $113k last year) or add a competent, veteran guard; in fact, looks like LA must go with 11 women roster. I would add that LA has past history of cap shenanigans (like paying Sims way under her value last year), so maybe they can find a veteran willing to take huge pay cut, but there is little room to manuever this year....of course, who knows, maybe they can "convince" Gray to play on the cheap.
Note: If you don't want, say, Weise or Samuelson, they probably must be replaced by a low paid non veteran, just to squeeze under cap. Remember that last year, LA was so close to cap that they had to delay re-signing Samuelson for a few games.
I suspect that LA might be shopping Lavender, just like Seattle might be offering Paris, and Phx Camille Little. Lavender has better credentials, but, like Sims, she is coming off her worst season ever. Tough to find a sucker who will pay that kind of player max $, in a league where several teams are already suffering cap problems.


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PostPosted: 02/24/19 5:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I suspect the signed Sims to a 3 year deal because they made an under the table deal with her last season for her to take a cut in order to get under the cap. They are just keeping their word.

Now the do have a new coach and who knows what type of player he values, but Sims can not handle the point full time. Neither can Parker. Parker is a half court two man game point but she does not see the entire floor, when she is focused on her own shot. Sims was able to play the point in college but the WNBA has exposed her weaknesses. She has a peripheral vision problem which is more evident on defense, but it surely affects her on offense as well.

Perhaps they are working out the same sort of deal with Gray that the did with Sims last season and are just waiting to see how much she will need to leave on the table. I agree with those that believe that they can not afford to have Sims play the point exclusively. Of course they could go back to Parker sharing the point as well. But Parker is too inconsistent and does not play well back to back. Of the big three I think the most expendable would be Parker, but after her it would be Nneka. Parker was always good at feeding Nneka and their is no reason she couldn't be even more successful with Cambage.

Why think that they have not signed Gray because she is part of the proposed trade ?- well to trade her you have to sign her. You can not trade her if she is not under contract. If she knew she was going to be traded she might just chose to sign with a different team of her own choice. It might be that they have not signed her because they know she will sign with them so there is no need to hurry. Maybe she wants a no trade clause. If I were her that is what I would ask for. She is happy in LA.

Then again Fisher might be an idiot and believe that Sims can handle the point. They guy has never coached before so who knows what he thinks or might do.



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PostPosted: 02/24/19 5:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If i was the Sparks i would rather trade Ogwumike then Gray



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PostPosted: 02/24/19 6:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Sparks would be stupid to trade Gray for Camabge. Going back to a big frontline is just idiotic. But if they want to give us Gray + the #7 pk...I won't complain about it.

Shades wrote:

Jefferson + (Choice of player not named Plum/McBride/Wilson) + first in 2020


And Dallas should hang up the phone. Like really....An injury prone pg + a bench player + a 2020 draft pick that's going to be in the 8-12 range....No Thank you.


canadaball



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PostPosted: 02/24/19 8:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

willtalk wrote:
I suspect the signed Sims to a 3 year deal because they made an under the table deal with her last season for her to take a cut in order to get under the cap. They are just keeping their word.

Now the do have a new coach and who knows what type of player he values, but Sims can not handle the point full time. Neither can Parker. Parker is a half court two man game point but she does not see the entire floor, when she is focused on her own shot. Sims was able to play the point in college but the WNBA has exposed her weaknesses. She has a peripheral vision problem which is more evident on defense, but it surely affects her on offense as well.

Perhaps they are working out the same sort of deal with Gray that the did with Sims last season and are just waiting to see how much she will need to leave on the table. I agree with those that believe that they can not afford to have Sims play the point exclusively. Of course they could go back to Parker sharing the point as well. But Parker is too inconsistent and does not play well back to back. Of the big three I think the most expendable would be Parker, but after her it would be Nneka. Parker was always good at feeding Nneka and their is no reason she couldn't be even more successful with Cambage.

Why think that they have not signed Gray because she is part of the proposed trade ?- well to trade her you have to sign her. You can not trade her if she is not under contract. If she knew she was going to be traded she might just chose to sign with a different team of her own choice. It might be that they have not signed her because they know she will sign with them so there is no need to hurry. Maybe she wants a no trade clause. If I were her that is what I would ask for. She is happy in LA.

Then again Fisher might be an idiot and believe that Sims can handle the point. They guy has never coached before so who knows what he thinks or might do.


Another reason for the delay in signing Gray might be the salary cap. As I noted above, LA has a history of getting very close to the cap, and the #'s this year indicate the same thing. It is possible that, when the full salary picture is apparent, just a couple of thousand less paid to Gray (say from $115 to $111K) might just be what is needed to stay under cap. Minny was the king of this approach, when several of their stars each took a few thousand less than max.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 02/24/19 10:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Why has no one considered the coaching change as a factor in Grays decision ? Agler brought her out of her shell and made her an All star PG ijs. Laughing



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