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Admiral_Needa



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PostPosted: 08/21/18 11:42 pm    ::: Minnesota Lynx 2019 Reply Reply with quote

As I've said before, the biggest threats to MIN's championship chances are LA and age... Idea

Well, LA got them, and Whalen has now retired... Shocked

What next for the Lynx? Question

They likely can keep the championship window open, but they won't be one of the favorites anymore... who can they add? Confused



    Thanks for all the great memories Lindsay! Mr. Green



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 08/21/18 11:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

well they at least had a great (surprisingly) positive in Fagbenle.

they will also get a good guard at #5, which is needed because Seimone sometimes looks like Seimone and sometimes looks like she is near the end of her career. And we know Wright is near the end of hers. That leaves guard pretty thin.



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 12:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
well they at least had a great (surprisingly) positive in Fagbenle.

they will also get a good guard at #5, which is needed because Seimone sometimes looks like Seimone and sometimes looks like she is near the end of her career. And we know Wright is near the end of hers. That leaves guard pretty thin.


Dallas is #5 Minny might get left with Arike Neverpassestherockay Huh Shades? Laughing



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toad455



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 7:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wonder if they keep Larkins as their veteran post off the bench? Arike seems a given to replace Augustus.

PG: Robinson/Wright
SG: Augustus/Ogunbowale/Jones
SF: Moore/Zandalasini
PF: Brunson/Larkins/#16 pick(Caliya Robinson?)
C: Fowles/Fagbenle



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Randy



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 8:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Age and injury have caught up with the Lynx but any team with Fowles and Moore should be a contender. Now they will have some cap space and room for another starter (or 2) so they could pick up someone in FA, or trade their draft pick for a good player to fill the void. Lynx are not necessarily done yet. But they need to really manage the minutes of Brunson and Augustus next year so that they have something in the tank for the playoffs.

Does look like Jones is not their PG of the future. CZ also has not been nearly as impressive starting as she was coming off the bench - but it may be teams just figured her out.

Maybe the will go after Dantas - she never played as well in Atlanta as she did for the Lynx.


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PostPosted: 08/22/18 11:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't think Ionescu should be counted out of the draft -- though I don't think she could be counted in either. But how would she fit with the Lynx?



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toad455



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 11:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I don't think Ionescu should be counted out of the draft -- though I don't think she could be counted in either. But how would she fit with the Lynx?


Ionescu will be the #1 pick regardless if it's the 2019 or 2020 draft. Indiana would get their starting PG for many, many years. McCowan falls to Vegas, Chicago might pass on Brown and take a guard(Durr or even Samuelson) and Brown falls to New York.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 11:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I don't think Ionescu should be counted out of the draft -- though I don't think she could be counted in either. But how would she fit with the Lynx?

I don't know if she'd the absolute nailed on #1 if she comes out (she would be if I were picking, based on what I've seen), but there's no way in hell she's there at #6. And basically all Minnesota have to trade at this point is their 1sts, Moore and Fowles. So she's not going to Minnesota unless she stays in school and next year is a disaster for the Lynx.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 11:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
ClayK wrote:
I don't think Ionescu should be counted out of the draft -- though I don't think she could be counted in either. But how would she fit with the Lynx?

I don't know if she'd the absolute nailed on #1 if she comes out (she would be if I were picking, based on what I've seen), but there's no way in hell she's there at #6. And basically all Minnesota have to trade at this point is their 1sts, Moore and Fowles. So she's not going to Minnesota unless she stays in school and next year is a disaster for the Lynx.


Or if someone hires Michael Cooper and he trades away a lottery pick for a bench player



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 12:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
ClayK wrote:
I don't think Ionescu should be counted out of the draft -- though I don't think she could be counted in either. But how would she fit with the Lynx?

I don't know if she'd the absolute nailed on #1 if she comes out (she would be if I were picking, based on what I've seen), but there's no way in hell she's there at #6. And basically all Minnesota have to trade at this point is their 1sts, Moore and Fowles. So she's not going to Minnesota unless she stays in school and next year is a disaster for the Lynx.


Agreed , Ionescu goes #1 if the right team gets the #1 pick . With the needs for Bigs in this draft , taking Her at #1 could force a team to do more rebuilding than before. She would be the best selection though as far as Pro-Ready goes.



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jewelsongs



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 1:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I am a huge Sparks fan, but I will really miss Whalen. What a terrific competitor. She killed my team again and again. I hope she has a great coaching career.


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 2:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I am having a strange vision of Sloot in a Lynx uniform.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 2:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
I am having a strange vision of Sloot in a Lynx uniform.


Did that same vision have Maya in a Wings Uni as well ? Wink



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 4:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
I am having a strange vision of Sloot in a Lynx uniform.

Did that same vision have Maya in a Wings Uni as well ? Wink


NO. I want J-Spoon's vision to have Maya in Dream Uni. What psychedelics do you need J-Spoon?


LynxFan32



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 4:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
I am having a strange vision of Sloot in a Lynx uniform.


if sloot and Charles end up in a lynx uniform next season....everyone will hate us as lynx fans and they will hate the lynx again



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pilight



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 5:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LynxFan32 wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
I am having a strange vision of Sloot in a Lynx uniform.


if sloot and Charles end up in a lynx uniform next season....everyone will hate us as lynx fans and they will hate the lynx again


If that happens even SpaceJunkie will have to say something nice about Reeve.



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 5:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
I am having a strange vision of Sloot in a Lynx uniform.

Did that same vision have Maya in a Wings Uni as well ? Wink


NO. I want J-Spoon's vision to have Maya in Dream Uni. What psychedelics do you need J-Spoon?


Ohhhhh in comes the plug ! Laughing



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 5:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What would be the motivation for Chicago to deal away the only star player that has been happy to stay with the team?

Reeve can no longer rely on gifts. She’s gotta get good at her job. Find the hidden gems that are out there, and hopefully draft a post player in the first round.

Now that Reeve has freed up additional capital by pushing Whalen out the door, it wouldn’t be surprising if she went after one of those beleaguered post players.

Wings fans aren’t happy with Glory Johnson? Really? They’d be happier with the #6 pick? Value-wise, I think that would intrigue Reeve, but the whole Griner ordeal left her looking forever kooky to me. Unless Reeve is getting desperate enough to drop her standards, Glory doesn’t seem to pass the no-knucklehead test.

Another player with high knucklehead potential, Bone, could be the odd man out in LVA, but according to Megdal, she’s making $112K. Can you imagine Reeve paying Bone $112K a year after not wanting to pay Howard the same? The ridicule would be immense. The only way Bone should end up with the Lynx is if Laimbeer cut her and the Lynx picks her up at a renegotiated price, say $80K. Even at that price, she may not pass the no-knucklehead requirement.

Hamby is a RFA that Laimbeer may let go, so maybe you could throw a low-ball offer at her. Even she is somewhat high on the knucklehead scale.

Dantas returning would be intriguing considering the success the Lynx had with her. Can she stay healthy? Lynx have three second rounders.

It’s hard finding good players at a fair price. This is why should hold onto players like Howard that you already have and should know what you got.
Man, ATL got Breland for free. How’d that happen?



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 6:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So what happens with Augustus? She was benched for the fourth quarter in the biggest game of the season for a relative unknown.

She's not the player she once was, and was below average on both sides of the ball according to the ratings (whatever those may be worth). She turns 35 in April and clearly isn't going to get better.

Rebekkah Brunson turns 37 in December and though she's still a solid defender, she's below-average offensively. On the right team, surrounded by youth and scorers, she might still be valuable -- but I don't see Minnesota as being that team.

For the sake of argument, let's say neither Brunson or Augustus start next year. With Whalen gone, the returning starters are

Maya Moore, who turns 30 next year and is coming off her worst season

Sylvia Fowles, who turns 33 in October

Possible replacements:

Danielle Robinson, turns 30 next May, an A/TO below 2.0, no perimeter threat, decent defender

Cecilia Zandalasini, turns 23 so should improve on her 8.0 PER (15.0 is average). Good three-point shooter, but how many teams in the league would she start for?

Temi Fagbenle, turns 26, had her best game against LA. Could be a nice post in the mold of Natasha Howard, LaToya Sanders. Or not.

Tanisha Wright, turns 35 in November. 39.6% from three, career best; 37.6% from two, career worst. Looked to be in good shape, high IQ, but again, how many teams would she start for?

Alexis Jones, 25 in May, way below average in offensive and defensive ratings. 6.2 PER (?!). 18/17 A/TO doesn't seem to indicate a PG.

It's a good draft, but No. 6 isn't likely to be an immediate impact player who can share the load with Augustus and Moore.

I will give a lot of credit to Cheryl Reeve if she sticks with this, because it sure looks like it's going to be a long rebuild.



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 6:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Whoever they draft at #6 could potentially start(Ogunbowale, Durr?). That's Augustus' replacement. Fagbenle would replace Brunson. Their main bench players would be Wright, Zandalasini and whatever FA Reeve targets.



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 6:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I believe this shouldn't be a tough rebuild for next season. The core is Moore and Fowles; everyone else is replaceable. The Lynx need to get younger. They can't afford to have expensive backups like Wright, and I don't see her as a 30 minute a game starter. Augustus and Brunson are both fine but certainly not vital. Moore and Fowles by themselves should be enough to take a team to the playoffs, and sculpting a team around those two stars should allow the team to be far more prepared for the playoffs.


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PostPosted: 08/22/18 7:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Brunson and Augustus are both still viable WNBA players, they're just not stars any more. They probably bring both back if they want to come. I think they need two pieces: One genuinely meaningful free agent pickup (not a pushing-40 fill-in, or maybe-rotation backup, but an actual starting-calibre addition); and hit a home run with the #6 pick.

If they get both of those, with maybe Maya bouncing back up a bit after the drop-off this season, and the defense they still seem able to build with Reeve+Fowles+virtually anyone, then I think they can be very competitive again very quickly. But they really do need to refresh. Maya, Fowles, Reeve and filler has been shown this season to not be enough.



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 9:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
I am having a strange vision of Sloot in a Lynx uniform.


Me too! We should form a Psychic Friends Network!



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 08/22/18 10:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Brunson and Augustus are both still viable WNBA players, they're just not stars any more. They probably bring both back if they want to come. I think they need two pieces: One genuinely meaningful free agent pickup (not a pushing-40 fill-in, or maybe-rotation backup, but an actual starting-calibre addition); and hit a home run with the #6 pick.

If they get both of those, with maybe Maya bouncing back up a bit after the drop-off this season, and the defense they still seem able to build with Reeve+Fowles+virtually anyone, then I think they can be very competitive again very quickly. But they really do need to refresh. Maya, Fowles, Reeve and filler has been shown this season to not be enough.



I didn't mean to suggest that Augustus and Brunson should be let go. If they could get something in a trade for one of them that would be fine, but the main point is that the Lynx can't hold on to both of them as well as Wright and Larkins. Both are still quality players and could have a role. But the league is getting quicker and the Lynx need to do so as well. As much as people loved Whalen I believe her play was the single biggest problem for the team in 2018.


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PostPosted: 08/23/18 7:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
It’s hard finding good players at a fair price. This is why should hold onto players like Howard that you already have and should know what you got.
Man, ATL got Breland for free. How’d that happen?


What if Reeve is so obsessed with her vet starters, she decided she didn't want to risk making them look "bad" by having any top-notch backups behind them? Reeve couldn't risk the Lynx making it to or winning the WNBA Finals if Brunson ever got injured (or if it didn't involved Brunson playing huge minutes), because Howard would just as easily be able to replace her in the lineup, so Reeve is probably thrilled the Lynx lost in the first round of the playoffs with Brunson out because it makes Brunson look better. Shocked That's why most Lynx fans are mad at me for being upset that the Lynx got rid of Howard and sucked this year: they'd rather go almost .500 and lose in the first round of the playoffs (and/or never win another title, while Seattle wins the next three titles) than have anybody other than (besides Maya & Fowles) Brunson, Augustus, or Whalen play any major role in the Lynx winning a title (even as a bench player, because I never said the Lynx ever had to get rid of any of their vet starters—it's who Reeve has on the bench I complain about).

I think Chicago used their core on Quigley, and Breland decided she'd rather play for THE DREAM TEAM than the Sky.
Otherwise top free agents rarely ever switch teams, so I don't know if I can count on the Lynx signing anybody who'll make any more of an impact than their big signing of Kizer this year.


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PostPosted: 08/23/18 9:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Brunson and Augustus are both still viable WNBA players, they're just not stars any more. They probably bring both back if they want to come. I think they need two pieces: One genuinely meaningful free agent pickup (not a pushing-40 fill-in, or maybe-rotation backup, but an actual starting-calibre addition); and hit a home run with the #6 pick.

If they get both of those, with maybe Maya bouncing back up a bit after the drop-off this season, and the defense they still seem able to build with Reeve+Fowles+virtually anyone, then I think they can be very competitive again very quickly. But they really do need to refresh. Maya, Fowles, Reeve and filler has been shown this season to not be enough.


I don't mean to suggest that Brunson and Augustus don't have a place in the league, but given the overall age of the Lynx lineup, I don't think they are good fits there. As veterans either as complementary starters or primary bench pieces, they are definitely valuable -- but to rely on them as part of a starting lineup that contains no one under 30 is risky.

Moore and Fowles are both elite players, but off the top of my head, I'd say the playoff teams all arguably had at least two (and younger). Where is the third elite player? Sixth pick? That's asking a lot, even in a good draft.

Tough choices ahead in Minnesota ...



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 08/23/18 10:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Brunson and Augustus are both still viable WNBA players, they're just not stars any more. They probably bring both back if they want to come. I think they need two pieces: One genuinely meaningful free agent pickup (not a pushing-40 fill-in, or maybe-rotation backup, but an actual starting-calibre addition); and hit a home run with the #6 pick.

If they get both of those, with maybe Maya bouncing back up a bit after the drop-off this season, and the defense they still seem able to build with Reeve+Fowles+virtually anyone, then I think they can be very competitive again very quickly. But they really do need to refresh. Maya, Fowles, Reeve and filler has been shown this season to not be enough.


I don't mean to suggest that Brunson and Augustus don't have a place in the league, but given the overall age of the Lynx lineup, I don't think they are good fits there. As veterans either as complementary starters or primary bench pieces, they are definitely valuable -- but to rely on them as part of a starting lineup that contains no one under 30 is risky.

Moore and Fowles are both elite players, but off the top of my head, I'd say the playoff teams all arguably had at least two (and younger). Where is the third elite player? Sixth pick? That's asking a lot, even in a good draft.

Tough choices ahead in Minnesota ...

With Fowles and Moore, I don't think you need a 3rd elite player. I think they need a player that can simply hit open 3s consistently. Teams are selling out on the doubles of Fowles and the Lynx haven't been able to make them pay.

Brunson still looked good out there, especially on defense, and her ability to hit a 3 is a nice added bonus. Unless she declines significantly this off season she is still a starter quality player, and if what we saw of Fagbenle in the Sparks game was a sign of things to come, that could be the relief Brunson needs.

Of course we were saying the same thing about Jones last year after her performance in the playoffs. Going into this season the team was super high on her future. That is clearly no longer the case, with good reason.



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PostPosted: 08/23/18 11:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I don't mean to suggest that Brunson and Augustus don't have a place in the league, but given the overall age of the Lynx lineup, I don't think they are good fits there. As veterans either as complementary starters or primary bench pieces, they are definitely valuable -- but to rely on them as part of a starting lineup that contains no one under 30 is risky.

Moore and Fowles are both elite players, but off the top of my head, I'd say the playoff teams all arguably had at least two (and younger). Where is the third elite player? Sixth pick? That's asking a lot, even in a good draft


justintyme wrote:
With Fowles and Moore, I don't think you need a 3rd elite player. I think they need a player that can simply hit open 3s consistently. Teams are selling out on the doubles of Fowles and the Lynx haven't been able to make them pay.


In 2017, Phoenix had Taurasi and Griner...and very little else (with Bonner missing the season due to being pregnant with her twins).

2017 Phoenix Mercury (selected team stats):
-- 81.9 ppg, 17.6 apg, 44 percent from the floor, 33.9 percent from three, 78.8 percent from the line.
--Offensive Rating: 102.3
--Defensive Rating: 105.2
--Net Rating: -2.8

2018 Phoenix Mercury (selected team stats):
-- 85.8 ppg, 20.6 apg, 45.7 percent from the floor, 36.0 percent from three, 84.9 percent from the line.
--Offensive Rating: 106.7
--Defensive Rating: 103.5
--Net Rating:3.1

Having that 3rd elite player is incredibly important for an older team because it presents yet another viable option that the opposition can defend.

In Phoenix's case, Bonner is another versatile player, having rotated between the 2-4 positions (the 4 this year) because of her height, ability to create, and shooting ability (midrange and out).

And with Taurasi having the ability to be a scorer and facilitator, it benefits tremendously having her surrounded with a dominant post presence and a versatile inside/outside third star.

With Minnesota, Cecilia Zandalasini can be a "Steph Talbot-type" for Minnesota, someone who, as a starter, can be a 4th or 5th option and produce efficient scoring (Talbot's last 10 games - 8.2 ppg, 49.0 percent from the floor, 41.9 percent from three). While Zandalasini has the ability to put the ball on the floor and is better at doing so than Talbot, I think 8-10 ppg is very reasonable for her for next season - especially since she is only 22 years old.

But as of now, Minnesota does not have a point guard/primary playmaker in the starting lineup, nor does the team have a third scoring option.

Frankly, if I were Minnesota, I might look to see if I could trade the #6 pick (and perhaps something else) to Las Vegas to secure Moriah Jefferson.
(bolded and italicized for thoughts from Admiral, Pilight, and Richyyy)


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PostPosted: 08/23/18 11:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Of course we were saying the same thing about Jones last year after her performance in the playoffs. Going into this season the team was super high on her future. That is clearly no longer the case, with good reason.


Jones followed the same pattern as Howard, except I secretly thought Howard's ceiling is superstar, while I figured Jones ceiling is just solid backup.
1. Young player shows promise
2. Sign old veteran to eat into young player's playing time following year, so have excuse not to play the young player, fooling people into thinking the player isn't as good when they don't play as well because they aren't given a role / regular minutes.
3. Give away player for nothing
4. Player magically "improves" dramatically.

So if Reeve signs more old vets so has an excuse not to play Fagbenle (and the 1st round pick) I'm going to riot. Cool


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PostPosted: 08/23/18 12:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:

But as of now, Minnesota does not have a point guard/primary playmaker in the starting lineup, nor does the team have a third scoring option.


As of NOW, Minnesota is done for the season. By the time the next season rolls around, they’ll have DRob as the starting PG. Maybe you missed the news of her re-signing? Not sure why Reeve loves DRob so much. Seems like whatever team she’s on underperforms.

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Frankly, if I were Minnesota,[i] [b]I might look to see if I could trade the #6 pick (and perhaps something else) to Las Vegas to secure Moriah Jefferson.


Too high a price, especially for a likely backup. Too similar to DRob. Need a backup that can switch things up if needed.

I don’t want to throw money or high draft picks at the guard position any longer. But if I did, I’d rather throw it at Cloud 9, who will be a RFA. She can play multiple positions and be a nice contrast to DRob.

In the draft, there’s a little stronger version of Jefferson that Reeve probably has her eye on in the second round. Of course Reeve will have to find the patience to develop this player. That may be a tall order.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 08/23/18 12:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howard definitely had flashes last season, though. I remember saying multiple times that if the Lynx didn't pay her, someone else around the league was going to. Jones, on the other hand, has pretty much been a disaster all year long whenever given a chance. Admittedly those chances dwindled disappointingly quickly, but on some level you've got to earn your opportunities.

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Frankly, if I were Minnesota, I might look to see if I could trade the #6 pick (and perhaps something else) to Las Vegas to secure Moriah Jefferson.

It's a reasonable idea, but I'm not sure if Jefferson showed enough this year coming off her injury to warrant the move. You don't want to give up that pick if you're getting a player back who's never going to be quite the same. Of course to some extent it depends on how good they feel like the player they get at #6 is going to be (and whether Reeve genuinely believes in Player X enough to commit to playing her). Most people seem to feel this draft is pretty deep in 'good' players, even if there aren't any sure-fire superstars right at the top.

On the positive side, at least Jefferson's still young. I really don't want to see them trade the pick for someone pushing 30. Jefferson would still be a rebulding piece at 24 (although you'd get three fewer years of her being cheap compared to the #6, which could be an issue if they're trying to make free agent moves as well).



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PostPosted: 08/23/18 12:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The difference between having two legit scorers/elite players and three is enormous.

If you have two players have to focus on, as a coach, I can designate 1.5 players to defend them, either by sagging off or rotating. If you have three, one of them is going to be able to go one-on-one.

And a three-point spotup shooter is not enough to take the heat off. Players like that are still too easy to guard ... you need need a player who will get 20 if I don't pay full attention to her.

That said, sure, Brunson could be your fifth best offensive player and you'd be fine. But if she's your fourth best, meaning someone worse is out there too, then your top three all better be able to light it up.



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SpaceJunkie



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PostPosted: 08/23/18 12:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Too high a price, especially for a likely backup. Too similar to DRob. Need a backup that can switch things up if needed.

I don’t want to throw money or high draft picks at the guard position any longer. But if I did, I’d rather throw it at Cloud 9, who will be a RFA. She can play multiple positions and be a nice contrast to DRob.

In the draft, there’s a little stronger version of Jefferson that Reeve probably has her eye on in the second round. Of course Reeve will have to find the patience to develop this player. That may be a tall order.


I agree with you that Lynx should draft the top PF/C with their first round pick (and if #6 is too high, perhaps try to trade down and get something). Between that player & Fagbenle, the Lynx would be set if/when Brunson retires. They can draft a guard for the future in the 2nd round. Also is it impossible to make Maya a SG or use a lineup of D-Rob, Maya, Zandalasini, PF, Fowles?


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PostPosted: 08/23/18 12:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
you need need a player who will get 20 if I don't pay full attention to her.


Sounds like Augustus to me. Maybe she’ll step up her conditioning this off season.



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LynxFan32



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PostPosted: 08/23/18 12:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:
Shades wrote:
It’s hard finding good players at a fair price. This is why should hold onto players like Howard that you already have and should know what you got.
Man, ATL got Breland for free. How’d that happen?


What if Reeve is so obsessed with her vet starters, she decided she didn't want to risk making them look "bad" by having any top-notch backups behind them? Reeve couldn't risk the Lynx making it to or winning the WNBA Finals if Brunson ever got injured (or if it didn't involved Brunson playing huge minutes), because Howard would just as easily be able to replace her in the lineup, so Reeve is probably thrilled the Lynx lost in the first round of the playoffs with Brunson out because it makes Brunson look better. Shocked That's why most Lynx fans are mad at me for being upset that the Lynx got rid of Howard and sucked this year: they'd rather go almost .500 and lose in the first round of the playoffs (and/or never win another title, while Seattle wins the next three titles) than have anybody other than (besides Maya & Fowles) Brunson, Augustus, or Whalen play any major role in the Lynx winning a title (even as a bench player, because I never said the Lynx ever had to get rid of any of their vet starters—it's who Reeve has on the bench I complain about).

I think Chicago used their core on Quigley, and Breland decided she'd rather play for THE DREAM TEAM than the Sky.
Otherwise top free agents rarely ever switch teams, so I don't know if I can count on the Lynx signing anybody who'll make any more of an impact than their big signing of Kizer this year.


Seattle may not win the next three titles...Reeve is probably thilled they lost in the first round.....what do you smoke or take to make you think like that



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PostPosted: 08/23/18 12:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LynxFan32 wrote:
Seattle may not win the next three titles...Reeve is probably thilled they lost in the first round.....what do you smoke or take to make you think like that


Then why would Reeve get rid of Howard for nothing instead of giving her any chance on the Lynx? Did she figure if Howard played well, it would make Brunson look bad by making her look replaceable (even though Brunson is at the end of her career anyways)? I waited the entire season to see if Kizer, Miyem, and Tanisha Wright would have more of an impact than Howard, like we were meant to believe, and never saw it. Teams that are trying to win titles aren't supposed to weaken their roster and make other teams stronger (which obviously makes your chances of winning much lower), or throw a season away to "tank" for a top six draft pick.




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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 08/23/18 12:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
As of NOW, Minnesota is done for the season. By the time the next season rolls around, they’ll have DRob as the starting PG. Maybe you missed the news of her re-signing? Not sure why Reeve loves DRob so much. Seems like whatever team she’s on underperforms.


I did not miss the re-signing. She is not a primary playmaker for a team with championship aspirations at this stage of her career, in my opinion.

Robinson was benched last year in Phoenix, in favor of Leilani Mitchell. Leilani started the final three regular season games (all won by Phoenix) and all five playoff games (Phoenix won two single elimination contests, including one on the road, before falling to LA in the playoff semis).

And Robinson's inability to be a consistent threat from three can hurt the offense, as teams can sag off of her to add an additional defensive layer around Sylvia Fowles.

I think she can fine as a starting PG, but again, not for a team that is a realistic championship contender.

Shades wrote:
Too high a price, especially for a likely backup.


Jefferson was a backup this year, as she was covering from her knee injury that cost her 13 games of the 2017 season and the first 17 of the 2018 season (she also was unable to practice at all during the the 2017 season).

Jefferson stayed away from basketball — except for shooting — for nine months until returning to practice June 21. She made her season debut July 1. As she stated last month, she is getting stronger and more explosive by the day - which means she will presumably be back to her starting role for next year.

Shades wrote:
Too similar to DRob. Need a backup that can switch things up if needed.


As a rookie, Jefferson averaged 13.9 points, 4.2 assists and 1.6 steals per game, starting all 34 games. Shed led the team in assists (142) and scoring (472) while also leading the team in three-point field goal percentage (.375). And she finished 3rd in the entire WNBA in steals per game that year.

Even in 21 games in her second season (24.5 minutes per contest), Jefferson shot 52.3 percent overall, 45.0 percent from three, and 74.1 percent from the line while producing 4.4 assists against only 2.0 turnovers per game (she would have finished 7th in the WNBA in steals per game had she played enough games to qualify for the official "league leaders").

Jefferson's career shooting numbers are 44.2 percent overall, 36.6 percent from three, and 77.4 from the line. Take away this year's three-point shooting (she only took 15 attempts and made three), she is 42-108 (38.89 percent from three) in her first two seasons.

Other than being known for speed (and at their ages and stages of their respective careers, Jefferson is quicker than Robinson), what are their similarities? How are they too similar???

Jefferson is a threat from the outside and can run a pick-and-roll or pick-and-pop much better than DRob right now. Robinson has NEVER been a three-point threat; she has made three 3-point shots total...in seven seasons.


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PostPosted: 08/23/18 1:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
ClayK wrote:
you need need a player who will get 20 if I don't pay full attention to her.


Sounds like Augustus to me. Maybe she’ll step up her conditioning this off season.


August has not averaged more than 11.2 ppg since 2015, when she averaged 13.8 ppg.

In terms of regular season games:
-- Augustus scored more than 15 points in a game three times this year - 16, 16, and 21.
-- August did not score 20 points in any regular season game in 2017. She scored more than 15 points five times.
-- In 2016, she had eight games of 15 or more points, with 4 at 20 or more.

She will be 35 next year. She can step up her conditioning all she wants (though she appears to be in pretty darn good shape as it is). Conditioning will not change her age nor the fact she is on the downside of her career and is not the lethal one-on-one scorer she once was.


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PostPosted: 08/23/18 1:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Shades wrote:
ClayK wrote:
you need need a player who will get 20 if I don't pay full attention to her.


Sounds like Augustus to me. Maybe she’ll step up her conditioning this off season.


August has not averaged more than 11.2 ppg since 2015, when she averaged 13.8 ppg.

In terms of regular season games:
-- Augustus scored more than 15 points in a game three times this year - 16, 16, and 21.
-- August did not score 20 points in any regular season game in 2017. She scored more than 15 points five times.
-- In 2016, she had eight games of 15 or more points, with 4 at 20 or more.

She will be 35 next year. She can step up her conditioning all she wants (though she appears to be in pretty darn good shape as it is). Conditioning will not change her age nor the fact she is on the downside of her career and is not the lethal one-on-one scorer she once was.


I forgot what exactly, but also doesn't Augustus have issues with her knees that she can't or shouldn't be playing big minutes?


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PostPosted: 08/23/18 1:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think my issue is with the word "elite". I do think you need a 3rd serious scoring threat. I just don't think they need to be "all-pro" level with the best duo in the game already on the team. Obviously if you can get one it makes it even easier, but imo "reliable scorer" who can play 30+ minutes and not be a defensive liability would be enough to elevate the team to serious championship contender again.

Starters:
DRob, [reliable scorer], Moore, Brunson, Fowles

Backups:
Augustus, Zandalasini, Fagbenle, Pick 6, Larkins, Jones

Just moving Augustus to off the bench would be huge. Play 15-20 minutes a night tops would allow her to feel her age much less.



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PostPosted: 08/23/18 1:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Augustus still shot 47% (50% last year) from the field with over 30% shooting from 3. And with the condensed schedule one would expect older players to see a drop this year.

But that is far from the numbers of a player who is washed up. She is just not the first or second option anymore and will disappear at times (likely due to fatigue).

But as an off the bench player? Someone who can be put in to boost scoring with the second team for 15-20 minutes a night? That is still a powerful weapon.



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PostPosted: 08/23/18 1:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They could still start Augustus. It doesn't matter that much who starts as long as they manage her minutes.



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PostPosted: 08/23/18 1:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:

I agree with you that Lynx should draft the top PF/C with their first round pick (and if #6 is too high, perhaps try to trade down and get something).


Not sure why Reeve would trade down. She’s collected enough 2nd round picks, and you probably already know part of the reason why she’s collecting them.

SpaceJunkie wrote:
Between that player & Fagbenle, the Lynx would be set if/when Brunson retires.


I wouldn’t be too obsessed about Fagbenle over one game. If she can keep playing anywhere near that level (could have been a once in a lifetime performance), that’d be great, but I wouldn’t exactly count on it. You got similarly excited over one good Zandalasini performance.

If Reeve could score Zahui for one of those second round picks, I might be a little more open to drafting a guard first, but the frontline really needs help. Who knows, maybe there will be a bidding war on Zahui. Most seem to agree she’s underutilized.

SpaceJunkie wrote:
They can draft a guard for the future in the 2nd round.


Exactly, and you already know who she has an eye on. Gotta save room on the roster for her. Maybe even two guards in the second round. There’s a poor man’s version of Ogunnerfromfaraway that should be available. It’d be nifty if Reeve started to get thrifty.

SpaceJunkie wrote:
Also is it impossible to make Maya a SG or use a lineup of D-Rob, Maya, Zandalasini, PF, Fowles?


I think you saw this notion in one of many posts where I explain why the Lynx don’t need to draft a guard first.
http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=94991&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=35



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SpaceJunkie



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PostPosted: 08/23/18 1:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
SpaceJunkie wrote:

I agree with you that Lynx should draft the top PF/C with their first round pick (and if #6 is too high, perhaps try to trade down and get something).


Not sure why Reeve would trade down. She’s collected enough 2nd round picks, and you probably already know part of the reason why she’s collecting them.


I just realized the connection that Howard became #6 on the Storm and the Lynx, on their own power, ended up with the #6 pick. That has to be the Natasha Howard Curse speaking to us, so I believe that means the Lynx must use the #6 pick on a PF/C, or they will be doomed to win 6 games like the Fever in the near future. Things would've been easier if Howard was #1. Smile

Shades wrote:
SpaceJunkie wrote:
Between that player & Fagbenle, the Lynx would be set if/when Brunson retires.


I wouldn’t be too obsessed about Fagbenle over one game. If she can keep playing anywhere near that level (could have been a once in a lifetime performance), that’d be great, but I wouldn’t exactly count on it. You got similarly excited over one good Zandalasini performance.

If Reeve could score Zahui for one of those second round picks, I might be a little more open to drafting a guard first, but the frontline really needs help. Who knows, maybe there will be a bidding war on Zahui. Most seem to agree she’s underutilized.


I figured the first round pick would be a future starter, and Fagbenele must have the ceiling of at least quality backup.
I wonder if Reeve even wants Zahui or not? I have a hard read on what kind of players Reeve wants, except usually players 28 or older who would've been more useful if it was 2012/2013 and not 2018. Smile

Shades wrote:
SpaceJunkie wrote:
They can draft a guard for the future in the 2nd round.


Exactly, and you already know who she has an eye on. Gotta save room on the roster for her. Maybe even two guards in the second round. There’s a poor man’s version of Ogunnerfromfaraway that should be available. It’d be nifty if Reeve started to get thrifty.


I need to find who that person is right now. Smile

Shades wrote:
SpaceJunkie wrote:
Also is it impossible to make Maya a SG or use a lineup of D-Rob, Maya, Zandalasini, PF, Fowles?


I think you saw this notion in one of many posts where I explain why the Lynx don’t need to draft a guard first.
http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=94991&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=35


Yes, and I remember from this article https://www.si.com/sportsperson/2017/12/05/maya-moore-sports-illustrated-performer-of-the-year
Quote:
Reeve likes to push her players to learn new roles on the court. To that end she plans on giving Moore significant time at shooting guard next year—which would make the Lynx very big and even tougher to guard. “Cheryl knows I love to be challenged and for my game to grow,” Moore says.

Which never happened, but if it did, it probably would've made everything much easier this season. 😡


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PostPosted: 08/23/18 2:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Neither one may be exactly what Reeve is looking for, but according to Megdal (I know - thin ice) both R. Williams and E. Prince will be UFA's next year along with a fair number of others. Williams is a risk due to her inconsistency and Prince due to her injury, but SG is the most overstocked position in the WNBA - she ought be able to find one, to either start, or take the pressure off of Augustus.

I think the whole Howard episode shows how inexact talent evaluation is. Reeve obviously misjudged Howard despite seeing her in games and in practice for 2 seasons. However, there certainly other examples of coaches ignoring talent right on their bench.


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PostPosted: 08/23/18 3:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
I think the whole Howard episode shows how inexact talent evaluation is. Reeve obviously misjudged Howard despite seeing her in games and in practice for 2 seasons. However, there certainly other examples of coaches ignoring talent right on their bench.


Too make things worse Reeve also didn't think a team with Breanna Stewart on it would ever be capable of being good, and a team with just Maya Moore, Sylvia Fowles and 9 to 10 corpses and/or elderly women from a retirement home would still be a top team in the WNBA, otherwise she should've done better than the infamous futile pick swap. Smile


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PostPosted: 08/23/18 3:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:
Randy wrote:
I think the whole Howard episode shows how inexact talent evaluation is. Reeve obviously misjudged Howard despite seeing her in games and in practice for 2 seasons. However, there certainly other examples of coaches ignoring talent right on their bench.


Too make things worse Reeve also didn't think a team with Breanna Stewart on it would ever be capable of being good, and a team with just Maya Moore, Sylvia Fowles and 9 to 10 corpses and/or elderly women from a retirement home would still be a top team in the WNBA, otherwise she should've done better than the infamous futile pick swap. Smile


Ah crap! Reeve probably wanted to help Flagrant Fowles get a head start on her mortician career by making her play with a team full of nothing but corpses this year. R.I.P. Minnesota Lynx.


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PostPosted: 08/23/18 3:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:
Randy wrote:
I think the whole Howard episode shows how inexact talent evaluation is. Reeve obviously misjudged Howard despite seeing her in games and in practice for 2 seasons. However, there certainly other examples of coaches ignoring talent right on their bench.


Too make things worse Reeve also didn't think a team with Breanna Stewart on it would ever be capable of being good, and a team with just Maya Moore, Sylvia Fowles and 9 to 10 corpses and/or elderly women from a retirement home would still be a top team in the WNBA, otherwise she should've done better than the infamous futile pick swap. Smile


Yeah, who would have thought a team that hadn't had a winning record since 2011 and hired a coach who hadn't had a winning record since 2012 would suddenly be the best team in the league?



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PostPosted: 08/23/18 3:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Neither one may be exactly what Reeve is looking for, but according to Megdal (I know - thin ice) both R. Williams and E. Prince will be UFA's next year along with a fair number of others. Williams is a risk due to her inconsistency and Prince due to her injury, but SG is the most overstocked position in the WNBA - she ought be able to find one, to either start, or take the pressure off of Augustus.


Exactly, Lib fans want to dump most their guards, and Reeve would probably drool at the thought of Zellous. Apparently TWright is signed for next year (probably guaranteed). Why again should the Lynx throw their #6 pick at a guard in this great draft of post players?

Randy wrote:
I think the whole Howard episode shows how inexact talent evaluation is.

If it’s too inexact when it’s your job to be exact enough to get the job done, you probably should get a different job.

Randy wrote:
Reeve obviously misjudged Howard despite seeing her in games and in practice for 2 seasons. However, there certainly other examples of coaches ignoring talent right on their bench.


If you’re defending Reeve, this would be a good place to drop a long list of slip-ups as bad as the Howard one. Reeve had plenty of money to sign Howard. She chose to make her priorities DRob, TWright, and having 12 players.



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SpaceJunkie



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PostPosted: 08/23/18 3:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Yeah, who would have thought a team that hadn't had a winning record since 2011 and hired a coach who hadn't had a winning record since 2012 would suddenly be the best team in the league?


I did, because it's the job of Minnesota to turn as many teams as possible into title contenders/winners, except their own. Unfortunately, I was stupid enough to not put 100% confidence into it from the start because I was naive enough to try to convince myself Reeve wasn't winning a title for the Storm even though every sign initially told me she was.




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