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pilight
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Richyyy
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 Posted: 08/21/18 11:19 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| Rock Hard wrote: |
There were many detractors on this board that did not believe A'ja Wilson was going to become an incredible player in the WNBA. She proved those detractors wrong her rookie season.  |
There were more than many detractors on this board that did not believe Diamond Deshiedls was going to become an incredible player in the WNBA. She proved those detractors wrong her rookie season as well.  |
DeShields had a good rookie year. Last season she would have been rookie of the year with that performance. |
Although that may say more about how utterly ordinary last year's group was than how good DeShields has been. |
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Rock Hard
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Shades
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WNBA 09
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FrozenLVFan
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| Posted: 08/21/18 1:18 pm ::: |
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| Maybe the Sky thread would be a better place to argue about DD.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 08/21/18 1:40 pm ::: |
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I was NOT a Wilson detractor. However, I can see where the skepticism came from. In college, A'ja was primarily a low post scorer and she did miss a lot of bunnies. At the pro level, she has mostly shot midrange jumpers and scored off drives to the hoop. Wilson did these things in college, but not anywhere near the extent to which she has done them in the WNBA. So, one can argue that A'ja is functioning as a very different type of offensive player.
As for DeShields, no one has ever questioned her talent. The areas of concern have mostly been about maturity, judgment, and willingness to play team ball. Her decision-making and unselfishness this season was way better than I've ever seen it. Kudos to Diamond. However, given her history, I don't think it's unreasonable to be wary and say let's see this one more time to make sure there really is a new Diamond.
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pilight
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| Posted: 08/21/18 1:41 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| As for DeShields, no one has ever questioned her talent. The areas of concern have mostly been about maturity, judgment, and willingness to play team ball. Her decision-making and unselfishness this season was way better than I've ever seen it. Kudos to Diamond. However, given her history, I don't think it's unreasonable to be wary and say let's see this one more time to make sure there really is a new Diamond. |
Perhaps that comes from good coaching...
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Silky Johnson
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| Posted: 08/21/18 2:08 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| I was NOT a Wilson detractor. However, I can see where the skepticism came from. In college, A'ja was primarily a low post scorer and she did miss a lot of bunnies. At the pro level, she has mostly shot midrange jumpers and scored off drives to the hoop. Wilson did these things in college, but not anywhere near the extent to which she has done them in the WNBA. So, one can argue that A'ja is functioning as a very different type of offensive player. |
So, what you're saying is that she was held back at South Carolina?
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pilight
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| Posted: 08/21/18 2:10 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| I was NOT a Wilson detractor. However, I can see where the skepticism came from. In college, A'ja was primarily a low post scorer and she did miss a lot of bunnies. At the pro level, she has mostly shot midrange jumpers and scored off drives to the hoop. Wilson did these things in college, but not anywhere near the extent to which she has done them in the WNBA. So, one can argue that A'ja is functioning as a very different type of offensive player. |
So, what you're saying is that she was held back at South Carolina? |
It's like the old joke about Dean Smith being the only man who could hold Jordan to 15 points/game.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 08/21/18 3:25 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| I was NOT a Wilson detractor. However, I can see where the skepticism came from. In college, A'ja was primarily a low post scorer and she did miss a lot of bunnies. At the pro level, she has mostly shot midrange jumpers and scored off drives to the hoop. Wilson did these things in college, but not anywhere near the extent to which she has done them in the WNBA. So, one can argue that A'ja is functioning as a very different type of offensive player. |
So, what you're saying is that she was held back at South Carolina? |
"Held back" suggests something intentional. I've always made the argument that player success is very dependent on system and role. Coaches don't misuse their players intentionally. The coach is just executing his/her preferred system and using the player in a role that fits the system. Or maybe the coach simply assessed the best use of a player incorrectly. When you have a tall player, the knee-jerk reaction is to stick her in the low post. This could have been Staley's reasoning. Another example would be Geno Auriemma's handling of Azura Stevens. By constantly pushing her to post-up more, it looks like he made Azura self-conscious and turned her into a flat-out bad 3-Pt shooter while at UConn.
Give Laimbeer some credit. I remember this observation from before the draft:
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"You don't get many players that can drive like she can. She can attack the basket and with one dribble cover a tremendous amount of ground," Laimbeer said...
I think in our league her biggest thing is just going to be she can scare a lot of people who are guarding her because she's able to take the ball to the basket off the drive. |
https://www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc-womens-basketball/article208179474.html
For anyone who was paying attention, Bill essentially told us what was coming.
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bballjunkie
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| Posted: 08/21/18 3:32 pm ::: |
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| Jeez I hope you are joking. First A’ja couldn’t drive as the defense is allowed to actually be in the key in college basketball, so she would pick up fouls. Second Z shot 3s and shot away from the basket at Uconn, Z missed them, not Geno. Blaming anyone else for missing shots is just plain silly. Z struggled as she was asked to think and react to the defense, that is what she found difficult both offensively and especially defensively. Same reason Fred couldn’t play her down the stretch in a lot of games.
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pilight
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| Posted: 08/21/18 3:37 pm ::: |
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| A'ja Wilson definitely benefits from the defensive three seconds rule
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Silky Johnson
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| Posted: 08/21/18 4:03 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| I was NOT a Wilson detractor. However, I can see where the skepticism came from. In college, A'ja was primarily a low post scorer and she did miss a lot of bunnies. At the pro level, she has mostly shot midrange jumpers and scored off drives to the hoop. Wilson did these things in college, but not anywhere near the extent to which she has done them in the WNBA. So, one can argue that A'ja is functioning as a very different type of offensive player. |
So, what you're saying is that she was held back at South Carolina? |
"Held back" suggests something intentional. I've always made the argument that player success is very dependent on system and role. Coaches don't misuse their players intentionally. |
Yes, they do. All the time.
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| ... The coach is just executing his/her preferred system and using the player in a role that fits the system. |
Uh, that happens to qualify as intentional misuse. The disconnect is that you appear to be operating from the belief that "intentional misuse" necessitates malice, and I am ascribing no such motives. A coach who misuses her talent because she is wedded to a particular style is a coach who is intentionally misusing said talent. That doesn't mean that she did it out of spite, or out of a desire to tank Wilson's career; it just suggests a measure of inflexibility in Staley's coaching style. Being either unable or unwilling to switch up your playbook to accommodate your personnel is, in fact, a form of intent.
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Silky Johnson
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| Posted: 08/21/18 4:06 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| A'ja Wilson definitely benefits from the defensive three seconds rule |
And there's also this: WNBA rules favor bigs who are adept at putting the ball on the floor. Your friendly reminder that #ZoneIsForCowards.
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WNBA 09
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| Posted: 08/21/18 4:15 pm ::: |
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| bballjunkie wrote: |
| Jeez I hope you are joking. First A’ja couldn’t drive as the defense is allowed to actually be in the key in college basketball, so she would pick up fouls. Second Z shot 3s and shot away from the basket at Uconn, Z missed them, not Geno. Blaming anyone else for missing shots is just plain silly. Z struggled as she was asked to think and react to the defense, that is what she found difficult both offensively and especially defensively. Same reason Fred couldn’t play her down the stretch in a lot of games. |
Z Struggled at UCONN due to being forced to play out of position. Never has she been or will she be a Center . #Anywhere
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bballjunkie
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| Posted: 08/21/18 4:41 pm ::: |
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[quote="WNBA 09"][quote="bballjunkie"]Jeez I hope you are joking. First A’ja couldn’t drive as the defense is allowed to actually be in the key in college basketball, so she would pick up fouls. Second Z shot 3s and shot away from the basket at Uconn, Z missed them, not Geno. Blaming anyone else for missing shots is just plain silly. Z struggled as she was asked to think and react to the defense, that is what she found difficult both offensively and especially defensively. Same reason Fred couldn’t play her down the stretch in a lot of games.[/quote]
Z Struggled at UCONN due to being forced to play out of position. Never has she been or will she be a Center . #Anywhere[/quote]
Funny I guess that makes you miss shots LOL. Plus film doesn’t lie, UCONN’s offense involves ball and player movement, she took outside shots whenever she wanted but if you feel the need to make excuses feel free.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 08/21/18 4:44 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| I was NOT a Wilson detractor. However, I can see where the skepticism came from. In college, A'ja was primarily a low post scorer and she did miss a lot of bunnies. At the pro level, she has mostly shot midrange jumpers and scored off drives to the hoop. Wilson did these things in college, but not anywhere near the extent to which she has done them in the WNBA. So, one can argue that A'ja is functioning as a very different type of offensive player. |
So, what you're saying is that she was held back at South Carolina? |
"Held back" suggests something intentional. I've always made the argument that player success is very dependent on system and role. Coaches don't misuse their players intentionally. |
Yes, they do. All the time.
| Quote: |
| ... The coach is just executing his/her preferred system and using the player in a role that fits the system. |
Uh, that happens to qualify as intentional misuse. The disconnect is that you appear to be operating from the belief that "intentional misuse" necessitates malice, and I am ascribing no such motives. A coach who misuses her talent because she is wedded to a particular style is a coach who is intentionally misusing said talent. That doesn't mean that she did it out of spite, or out of a desire to tank Wilson's career; it just suggests a measure of inflexibility in Staley's coaching style. Being either unable or unwilling to switch up your playbook to accommodate your personnel is, in fact, a form of intent. |
What ultimately is your point? That Staley is a bad coach? Wouldn't it be easier just to come out and say that?
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Nixtreefan
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| Posted: 08/21/18 5:00 pm ::: |
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| What does it have to do with Staley? The game is different and she played with different players.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 08/21/18 5:00 pm ::: |
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| bballjunkie wrote: |
| Jeez I hope you are joking. First A’ja couldn’t drive as the defense is allowed to actually be in the key in college basketball, so she would pick up fouls. Second Z shot 3s and shot away from the basket at Uconn, Z missed them, not Geno. Blaming anyone else for missing shots is just plain silly. Z struggled as she was asked to think and react to the defense, that is what she found difficult both offensively and especially defensively. Same reason Fred couldn’t play her down the stretch in a lot of games. |
All I know is that Stevens looked better at Duke and she instantly looked better with Dallas -- 32% in both places vs 18% at UConn. I'm not saying Geno didn't have the right to ask Stevens to do new things -- that's partly why she went to UConn. But clearly, the approach or process caused a loss of confidence. Yes, the player bears responsibility, but so does the coach.
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Nixtreefan
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| Posted: 08/21/18 5:03 pm ::: |
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| C'mon Duke played zone, their players didn't have to work hard or think about anything. So what your saying is the kid has trouble being challenged - not a good look.
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WNBA 09
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| Posted: 08/21/18 5:17 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| bballjunkie wrote: |
| Jeez I hope you are joking. First A’ja couldn’t drive as the defense is allowed to actually be in the key in college basketball, so she would pick up fouls. Second Z shot 3s and shot away from the basket at Uconn, Z missed them, not Geno. Blaming anyone else for missing shots is just plain silly. Z struggled as she was asked to think and react to the defense, that is what she found difficult both offensively and especially defensively. Same reason Fred couldn’t play her down the stretch in a lot of games. |
All I know is that Stevens looked better at Duke and she instantly looked better with Dallas -- 32% in both places vs 18% at UConn. I'm not saying Geno didn't have the right to ask Stevens to do new things -- that's partly why she went to UConn. But clearly, the approach or process caused a loss of confidence. Yes, the player bears responsibility, but so does the coach. |
Root , thats a lost cause. Rules are a bit skewed when its directed at the guy up north.
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WNBA 09
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| Posted: 08/21/18 5:17 pm ::: |
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| bump
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#Occasionalwnbafan
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| Posted: 08/21/18 6:31 pm ::: |
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| Other then the fact that LouConn doesn’t strike me as a number 1 overall pick, do they Ace really need a shooter when the have Plum and K Mac? Young fits the group nicely at small forward and should remain with the team. Brown who has size and rang would be a great fit next to Wilson. |
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. Thanks Rock for being an adult about it !