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Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 03/14/19 10:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
The Liberty have hired Jonathan Kolb as GM

https://liberty.wnba.com/news/liberty-announce-front-office-hire-gm-jonathan-kolb/

Quote:
Kolb joins the Liberty after working in the WNBA league office for five years, most recently serving as the Director of Basketball Strategy and Analytics. In the role he oversaw the management of the league’s roster and salary cap and assisted with collective bargaining agreement compliance. In addition, Kolb assisted in the streamlining of the league’s statistical monitoring systems, focusing on the potential on-court impact of proposed rule changes.


Wow! Fascinating. And I'm glad our team actually has a general manager.

But for me the most fascinating part of this press release is that Oliver P. Weisberg is identified as the "Alternate Governor" of the New York Liberty. Now there's a title I've never heard. What does it mean to be the "Alternate Governor" of the team? I detest Andrew Cuomo. Can we get an "Alternate Governor" for New York State? Smile


root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 03/14/19 11:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It sounds like he has an interesting background for the business end of things. There doesn't seem to be much on the talent evaluation side. However, given that the only ideas Katie Smith can muster are signing three players from last year's training camp who didn't make the team, I guess this guy can't do any worse.

Yes, that Alternate Governor title caught my attention too. Will they have a board of governors like the Federal Reserve? Is this guy one of two people in charge of corporate governance? Or are the Liberty now a colony? That actually works better with the Knick(erbocker)s. It harkens back to the days of Peter Stuyvesant or Peter Minuit before him.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
Randy



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PostPosted: 03/14/19 11:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Seems like he's got some analytics in his background. Could be helpful.


Shades



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PostPosted: 03/14/19 11:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Seems like he's got some analytics in his background. Could be helpful.


It might be like having Megdal as your GM. Remember how awful his first mock draft was not being familiar with the league and just going by the metrics. Wink



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Last edited by Shades on 03/14/19 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total
Shades



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PostPosted: 03/14/19 11:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sounds like David Nurse will be training Han Xu. He’s had connections with the Nets, so putting two and two together....



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 03/14/19 11:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

From a league perspective, it's yet another member of the central head office leaving for a different gig, even if this one happens to be within the league rather than outside. It's getting to the point where I wonder if there's anyone left in those offices. Remember the interns we used to speculate picked the Players of the Week? At this point that person's probably making the coffee, answering the phones, and running the damn league when Mark Tatum has better things to be doing.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 03/14/19 12:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah, what the heck is that "alternate governor" title?



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 03/14/19 1:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Yeah, what the heck is that "alternate governor" title?


Yes, I raised that question above. OK, here's a little about our new "Alternate Governor," Oliver P. Weisberg. He seems to be a money guy tied to Joseph Tsai (as noted in the second link):

http://hcf.fas.harvard.edu/profiles/oliver-p-weisberg/

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/small-biz/money/family-offices-of-alibabas-jack-ma-and-joseph-tsai-exploring-investments-in-india/articleshow/52719761.cms

I think we should have a contest. Who can come up with the best job description for the Alternate Governor of a women's pro basketball team? We vote on all proposed language. The winner gets... well, submit ideas for the prize.


root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 03/14/19 1:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
From a league perspective, it's yet another member of the central head office leaving for a different gig, even if this one happens to be within the league rather than outside. It's getting to the point where I wonder if there's anyone left in those offices. Remember the interns we used to speculate picked the Players of the Week? At this point that person's probably making the coffee, answering the phones, and running the damn league when Mark Tatum has better things to be doing.


Maybe they're downsizing the league office to reduce overhead. We'll know when the address of the WNBA is a PO Box.



_________________
Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 2726
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 03/14/19 1:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
From a league perspective, it's yet another member of the central head office leaving for a different gig, even if this one happens to be within the league rather than outside. It's getting to the point where I wonder if there's anyone left in those offices. Remember the interns we used to speculate picked the Players of the Week? At this point that person's probably making the coffee, answering the phones, and running the damn league when Mark Tatum has better things to be doing.


Maybe they're downsizing the league office to reduce overhead. We'll know when the address of the WNBA is a PO Box.


LOL. Or maybe they will attempt a grand public experiment and see if they can run a professional sports league entirely through social media. No league office, no upper-echelon staff, just a Digital Director and four or five interns. Smile


Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 2538



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PostPosted: 03/14/19 2:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:
root_thing wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:
Dolan sucks, Dolan sucks and he can keep Iaiasa Thomas Laughing Laughing

Plus yeah you take those players, that would be nice for the rest of us Laughing Laughing


You still haven't said who you like. You simply hate and criticize. You're like one of those perma-bears on wall street who only predicts disaster. Until you commit and tell us who you like -- so we can make fun of your picks -- you have no credibility. Until then, all we can conclude is that you have no balls! Razz


Aww Root and I really liked you. And here I thought I was posting on a message board, I must have missed the part where you need balls, fire the moderator for not asking for my balls. No credibility, thanks for pointing that out, can you point me in the direction of the credibility police so I can apply for my badge?



So don't hold your breath as I sit and ponder whether I will commit to any of your demands, unless of course you have some kind of incentive that you are holding back, please let me know so I can reconsider?

And hark, to all the GMs out there, will you please tell everyone who you really want and not FUCK with them as someone on a message board really thinks you have no balls? Cool


Dude, you constantly ridicule other people's opinions. That's basically insulting us. And yet, you won't take a stance of your own and defend it. Yes, you deserve to be called out for that.


I am not insulting anyone root, when did you become master of the board. I am giving an opinion and most of the time with my tongue in my cheek. If you take it as offense, you are being too sensitive.

Here's a little ditty for you that i put on the other page

So dUrr in the tournament was

25/65 for 38% FGs 5/25 for 20% from three playing 38 mins per game

Ogunnerbrawler was

21/61 for 34% FGs 5/18 for 27% from three playing 33 mins per game in 3 blow out games

I am scratching my head why anyone would think that these 2 are All Americans and their seasons are not that great either?

ESPNw has no credibility on this.

Feel free to take any of these 2.

And before you say tell me who I want, think about why anyone would give you what you want just because you ask for it on a message board



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 03/14/19 3:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:

And before you say tell me who I want, think about why anyone would give you what you want just because you ask for it on a message board


Because this is a community where we discuss basketball. It's supposed to be a two-way street, and simply ridiculing other people's opinions with glib remarks is no better than trolling. What I asked wasn't so demanding. Anyone else would have answered. You're the one turning this into a big deal. You're acting like you have some kind of valuable secret that's too important to share. It's not like I actually want to know. It just struck me that for you to attack our player preferences while not sharing your own was rather cowardly. You want to make fun of us without the risk of us doing the same to you. But hey, whatever. I stopped expecting an answer after your initial reply.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
5thmantheme



Joined: 11 Apr 2016
Posts: 449



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PostPosted: 03/14/19 3:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The simple version of the Deal goes something like:

Aces have no involvement, just who they pick.
Meaning it's McCowan or Brown+someone being picked/dealt to Dallas, and the reason for the delay.
Liz to L.A.
Probably Nneka going to NY.


Problem with said simple deal:

Doesn't explain what the Aces are doing with their extra players.
Doesn't explain all the other players unsigned connected to the involved teams.
Doesn't explain all the other other players unsigned and not connected to the involved teams.

So the simple deal is not the deal (might be part of the basics though).


toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 19255



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PostPosted: 03/14/19 5:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

5thmantheme wrote:
The simple version of the Deal goes something like:

Aces have no involvement, just who they pick.
Meaning it's McCowan or Brown+someone being picked/dealt to Dallas, and the reason for the delay.
Liz to L.A.
Probably Nneka going to NY.


Problem with said simple deal:

Doesn't explain what the Aces are doing with their extra players.
Doesn't explain all the other players unsigned connected to the involved teams.
Doesn't explain all the other other players unsigned and not connected to the involved teams.

So the simple deal is not the deal (might be part of the basics though).


Doesn't explain what the Liberty are giving up to get Nneka. Or exactly what Dallas is getting if Vegas isn't involved.



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myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
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PostPosted: 03/14/19 7:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

or why Nneka to NY. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense since their best player plays the same position.



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J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 03/14/19 11:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I am not exactly sure what people are talking about with the simple deal that seems to include 4 teams.

Now if you are trying to come up with a 3 team deal with LV, NY. and Dallas I have something like

Dallas gets #2 pick (McCowan), Jefferson and Harrison

LV gets Cambage and Boyd

NY get #1 pick (Ionescu) and #17 pick

Dallas
Jefferson, Gray, Stevens, Johnson, McCowan
(Diggins-Smith), Hill, Davis, Thorton, Harrison, Plaisance and #5

LV
Plum, McBride, Young, Wilson, Cambage
Boyd, Allen, Nared, Coffey, Hamby, Park and Swords

NY
Ionescu, Nurse, Zelous, Charles, Stokes
Hartley, Rodgers, R. Allen, NRE, Zahui B, #14 (Han Xu or Turner) and #17 (ideally a sf type Howard, Cuningham, Carlton, Martin, Blockton or Dillard or Mabrey just for fun and shooting/scoring).

But I think this was a pointless exercise since I see Cambage going to LA

so simple version
Boyd and #2 McCowan to LV for #1 Ionescu


Shades



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PostPosted: 03/15/19 6:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Boyd to Vegas doesn’t make much sense since they already have 4 PG’s on the current roster. I’m leaning towards Laimbeer trading one of them, possibly Jefferson.

If it came down to
CGray + #7
vs
Jefferson + #1
for Cambage, which would you want if you were Dallas?



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 03/15/19 8:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
I am not exactly sure what people are talking about with the simple deal that seems to include 4 teams.

Now if you are trying to come up with a 3 team deal with LV, NY. and Dallas I have something like

Dallas gets #2 pick (McCowan), Jefferson and Harrison

LV gets Cambage and Boyd

NY get #1 pick (Ionescu) and #17 pick

Dallas
Jefferson, Gray, Stevens, Johnson, McCowan
(Diggins-Smith), Hill, Davis, Thorton, Harrison, Plaisance and #5

LV
Plum, McBride, Young, Wilson, Cambage
Boyd, Allen, Nared, Coffey, Hamby, Park and Swords

NY
Ionescu, Nurse, Zelous, Charles, Stokes
Hartley, Rodgers, R. Allen, NRE, Zahui B, #14 (Han Xu or Turner) and #17 (ideally a sf type Howard, Cuningham, Carlton, Martin, Blockton or Dillard or Mabrey just for fun and shooting/scoring).

But I think this was a pointless exercise since I see Cambage going to LA

so simple version
Boyd and #2 McCowan to LV for #1 Ionescu


Was it convenient to give the #1 pick to NY instead of Dallas ? Giving us #2 when we have the prized possession of the entire trade? Swap those picks Dallas gets #1 and NY takes #5 or just take NY out in totality. Chicago would be a better trade partner or maybe even Connecticut with Jonquel or Chiney. Confused



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root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 03/15/19 10:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
I am not exactly sure what people are talking about with the simple deal that seems to include 4 teams.


Laughing Like everything else in modern life, simplicity has gotten inflated.



_________________
Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 12775



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PostPosted: 03/16/19 9:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
root_thing wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:
root_thing wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:
Dolan sucks, Dolan sucks and he can keep Iaiasa Thomas Laughing Laughing

Plus yeah you take those players, that would be nice for the rest of us Laughing Laughing


You still haven't said who you like. You simply hate and criticize. You're like one of those perma-bears on wall street who only predicts disaster. Until you commit and tell us who you like -- so we can make fun of your picks -- you have no credibility. Until then, all we can conclude is that you have no balls! Razz


Aww Root and I really liked you. And here I thought I was posting on a message board, I must have missed the part where you need balls, fire the moderator for not asking for my balls. No credibility, thanks for pointing that out, can you point me in the direction of the credibility police so I can apply for my badge?



So don't hold your breath as I sit and ponder whether I will commit to any of your demands, unless of course you have some kind of incentive that you are holding back, please let me know so I can reconsider?

And hark, to all the GMs out there, will you please tell everyone who you really want and not FUCK with them as someone on a message board really thinks you have no balls? Cool


Dude, you constantly ridicule other people's opinions. That's basically insulting us. And yet, you won't take a stance of your own and defend it. Yes, you deserve to be called out for that.


I am not insulting anyone root, when did you become master of the board. I am giving an opinion and most of the time with my tongue in my cheek. If you take it as offense, you are being too sensitive.

Here's a little ditty for you that i put on the other page

So dUrr in the tournament was

25/65 for 38% FGs 5/25 for 20% from three playing 38 mins per game

Ogunnerbrawler was

21/61 for 34% FGs 5/18 for 27% from three playing 33 mins per game in 3 blow out games

I am scratching my head why anyone would think that these 2 are All Americans and their seasons are not that great either?

ESPNw has no credibility on this.

Feel free to take any of these 2.

And before you say tell me who I want, think about why anyone would give you what you want just because you ask for it on a message board


You don't seem to be high on Ionescu or Collier either based on our earlier discussions. It's fine to not be high on players but SOMEONE still has to go number two.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 03/16/19 9:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

On the Liberty GM hire, it's interesting that:

A) It's an analytics person
B) It's someone with no prior connection to the organization or anyone in it
C) It happened two months after free agent negotiations were permitted to begin

I get why a new owner would bring in new people of course. But that doesn't change the potential ramifications of the timing. We haven't signed any free agents, and several of our current FAs remained unsigned. WNBA Fans Nation on facebook, a source proven to be credible in the past, recently suggested that Kia and Piph will return but are committed to overseas play till I believe June.

I wonder how that will mesh in an organization based in whatever degree of influence possessed by former players in Smith, Spoon and Cash. Analytics is at the core of most MLB decision-making these days and the WNBA in recent years has developed an emphasis on it as well. How will that mesh with the basketball people in the Liberty organization? Time will tell but it makes me nervous. The draft is about 4 weeks away. Hopefully the analytics point to Collier though.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 03/16/19 10:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've been concerned that Smith is a bit too close with her players. You need to be somewhat cold-blooded to function as a GM. Decisions need to be based on performance or potential -- not friendship, loyalty, and sympathy. If Kolb brings objectivity to the process, then it will be a welcomed addition. It's one reason why most sports separate the GM and head coach/manager jobs. The GM has to be dispassionate and look at the long-term big picture. Meanwhile, coaches have to get close enough to players to earn their trust and motivate them. It's a hard balancing act to do both.



_________________
Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 2726
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 03/16/19 11:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I really like the decision to bring in an "outsider" as GM. Perhaps Kolb will prove to be a brilliant choice, or mediocre, or a disaster. I have no idea. But I believe the organization needed a shakeup at the top.

The hiring of Kolb puts Katie Smith on a short lease as coach. I never view it as ideal, in any sport, when a GM inherits a coach that they didn't select. I don't view our likely roster as a playoff team; I can't believe a great season is ahead. If I'm right, Smith nevertheless will have to show Kolb that she deserves a third season as coach.


Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 2538



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PostPosted: 03/16/19 11:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Does that mean Katie has to take a pay cut Cool



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"White privilege is unseen by white pompous asses"
Feelings, nothing more than feelings...
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 2726
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 03/16/19 12:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Does that mean Katie has to take a pay cut Cool


Do you have anything to offer that will genuinely ADD to our discussion? (Please note the valuable statements made above by root_thing about "glib remarks" and "trolling.")


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