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Lib Fan



Joined: 10 May 2005
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PostPosted: 03/10/19 6:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When did this become a Knicks /Dolan thread ?
Let focus on The New York Liberty
Just saying !



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 03/10/19 7:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lib Fan wrote:
When did this become a Knicks /Dolan thread ?
Let focus on The New York Liberty
Just saying !


So far four of us (bballjunkie, toad, Nixtreefan, and myself) have chosen to talk about Dolan. Just one objection.

Hideous Lord Jimmy is a crucial part of the history of the New York Liberty and always will be. In my view, he bears significant responsibility for the current problems of our team.

Just saying!


toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 03/10/19 7:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Until the Liberty re-sign Boyd or a free agent, we're kind of idle now.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 03/10/19 7:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Until the Liberty re-sign Boyd or a free agent, we're kind of idle now.


Yes, there's that as well. Smile


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 03/11/19 12:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here is something for conversation

Young declares

Young or Durr at #2? (It is an either or not a here is an alternative options)

I still pick Durr
For me Durr's offense trumps Youngs two way game for what I want for the Liberty (I know Young killed her today in the ACC 'shio) but both could be stars at the next level.

and going off the draft thread

we decide to go post with #14

Gustafson, Turner, Shepard and Han Xu are all still on board who do you pick?

I probably pick Han Xu because why not swing for the fences but my steadier pick would be

and I am sure I will get torched for this but I pick Turner (Anigwe would be my first choice but I am breaking my no alternatives rule and I just don't think she could possibly still be available at 14). I am more confident that Turner's two way game translates to the W more than Gustafson's offense, I think both will be 4s in the W but probably will play some 5 depending on match ups. But yeah I think Turner will develop into the better pro, and will continue on her upward trajectory as she get farther away from her injury.

and finally (even though I think I already did this somewhere) we decide to go SF at #14 Howard and Cuningham are both still on board who do you pick?

I am going Howard here. I like Howard more, that is probably not the best reasoning, but I feel like what she does will translate and she can develop her outside shot. I would be OK with Sophie as I think I could be wrong and she will be a better pr but I am just not sure, so Howard for now. (I also think both players could be gone by 14 which makes this 3rd either/or a little pointless).

Also all of my choices are just opinions. Sometimes I am a really good talent evaluator and sometimes I am way off.


Shades



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PostPosted: 03/11/19 3:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What you are going to get torched for is taking Turner at #14, and then taking Howard at #14. You can only have one player for #14. Which one do you want more?



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 03/11/19 4:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
What you are going to get torched for is taking Turner at #14, and then taking Howard at #14. You can only have one player for #14. Which one do you want more?


They are separate hypotheticals;

one is preferred post at #14 Gustafson, Turner, Shepard, Han Xu the element that might get negative feedback is my preference of Turner to Gustafson.

The second hypothetical is preferred wing at #14 Cuningham or Howard. In which case I prefer Howard, though it is almost a coin toss IMO.

I am basically throwing out topics for debate starting with if you had to choose one at #2 would it be Durr or early declaring Young?


root_thing



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PostPosted: 03/11/19 10:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Cunningham has played better in the second half of the season, culminating in the two big games this weekend. Preseason I had her as solidly in the 1st Round, but then she got off to a so-so start and it seems like most of the mocks had her slipping out of the 1st Round. Throw in speculation that Ionescu and maybe more juniors would come out early, and that's where the forecast of her being available at #14 comes in. If Cunningham continues to play well through the tournament, I don't think she'll be there at #14. She has a well-rounded inside-outside game, and her career shooting percentages (50.3/40.7/83.6) are up there with Samuelson. Cunningham isn't the greatest athlete, but she works hard and competes. Lateral quickness on defense is largely a function of anticipation, not speed. So, if you study film and position yourself correctly, that can make up for the lack of speed. Cunningham is nothing if not intense. I think a lot of coaches and GMs will fall in love with her. However, if she were to fall to #14, I'd take Sophie over Howard. NY needs the outside shooting, and while Howard has certainly improved in that area, Cunningham is that rare 40%+ career 3Pt shooter who has done it on high volume. I know a lot of people love Howard's all-around game, especially her rebounding. I think an underappreciated player who can give you some of that is Naomi Davenport. She's not even showing up on a lot of mock drafts. I would take her at #26. Davenport had a big game earlier this year while Katie Smith was in attendance, so it wouldn't shock me if it actually happened.

So after emphasizing that NY needs outside shooting, I will now contradict myself and say I'd take Young over Durr. Laughing It's close, but I just think Young is a safer pick because of her more complete skill set and her ability to play multiple positions. Jackie can do everything except shoot 3's, and we don't know that she can't because she hardly ever takes one. She's shooting 40% for the season on low volume. Young is 33-95 34.7% in three seasons. For what it's worth, even a big-time scorer like Seimone Augustus was only 15-45 33.3% after three seasons. So, while it isn't ideal, I'm willing to roll the dice on Young because we can otherwise check all the boxes for her. I think Jackie can genuinely play multiple positions at least on a part-time basis. I see it suggested that so many other players can play 1-3 or even 1-4 and it makes me laugh. Just because your college coach shoves you into a position where she lacks better alternatives doesn't mean you can play that position at the pro level. However, with Young I think it's real. She is definitely equipped to play 2/3 and can fill in as an emergency 1. I'm not convinced Durr is anything more than a 2.

Regarding the post players, it's a hard choice. I think I'd be tempted to take Gustafson. Her low post skills are just so superior to anyone else I've ever seen that getting her at #14 seems like a bargain. Just remember, teams game plan to stop her and Megan still puts up close to 30 points every game while shooting almost 70%. That's insane. Hebard is close to that efficiency but without the volume or the multiple defenders. Anigwe gets similar defensive attention, but she can't put up anywhere near as many points on a consistent basis, and Kristine isn't even on the same planet when it comes to efficiency. Think about it: 20 points is a bad game for Gustafson. Shooting 60% is a bad game. Yes, she'll be facing bigger, better athletes at the next level. However, she'll also be seeing more single coverage in a wider lane and with the benefit of the defensive 3 seconds rule. I think Megan will kill anyone not named Griner, Cambage or Fowles. It will be interesting to see if she can shoot well enough from mid-range to score on even those three players. Gustafson rarely shoots the mid-range jumper, but she seems pretty accurate whenever I've seen it. On defense, Megan will struggle some but I don't think she'll be much worse than the average WNBA center. Again, defense isn't just man-to-man, it's also team defense which means switching and helping. Gustafson seems pretty alert and active. As a comparison, I think Megan is quicker than Dolson or Achonwa on defense, and potentially better offensively. Maybe she's already better. Is that worth the #14 pick to you?

For the Liberty, Turner would be somewhat redundant because like Stokes her calling card is defense and shot-blocking. Yes, Turner has more offensive ability than Kiah, but I wouldn't say a lot more. Mostly, it's having a better attitude because Kiah often looks like she doesn't even want the ball. However, Turner isn't as strong as Stokes which will hurt when it comes to rebounding and fighting for position. As far as Han Xu goes, I can see the argument for her logically, but I can't get excited about it. I just think it's going to be a very difficult process, between cultural differences and the need for Han to change her body. Who do we have on staff who can oversee this transformation? Herb Williams can maybe help an American player who just needs to polish her skills. However, how successful has he been with Stokes and Zahui B? Now you're going to hand him a player who is really raw, needs to get a lot stronger and doesn't speak the language? Sorry, I have no confidence that Herb or this management group in general can get it done.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 03/11/19 11:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

for j-spoon's scenarios
Young
Gustafson
Cunningham

guess that means I agree with root Very Happy



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toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 03/11/19 12:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I would be elated if Gustafson dropped to #14!



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stever



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PostPosted: 03/11/19 5:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Kia Nurse wrote an open letter encouraging young female athletes to pursue their dreams


https://www.bardown.com/kia-nurse-wrote-an-open-letter-encouraging-young-female-athletes-to-pursue-their-dreams-1.1270354



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 03/11/19 6:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So based on the responses this would be a Liberty team that would make most fans happy

Boyd/Hartley
Nurse/Rodgers
J. Young/(Zelous)/R. Allen
Charles/Gustafson/NRE
Stokes/Zahui B

and someone (I guess Faris has the edge on our 3rd round pick at this point, but I think one of our UFA Prince or Zelous probably would get the last spot, so I will give it to Zelous for now).

I don't hate it but for some reason it is just not doing it for me.

It would be your classic defensively strong Liberty team but it would be offense by committee outside of Charles for another season.


Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 03/11/19 8:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dolan sucks, Dolan sucks and he can keep Iaiasa Thomas Laughing Laughing

Plus yeah you take those players, that would be nice for the rest of us Laughing Laughing



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toad455



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PostPosted: 03/11/19 8:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Still hoping they sign Boyd & a free agent PG. I'd love to have:

PG: Boyd/free agent
SG: Durr/Rodgers/Hartley
SF: Nurse/Allen or 3rd round pick
PF: Charles/Zahui B/Raincock-Ekunwe
C: Gustafson/Stokes



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 03/11/19 10:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Dolan sucks, Dolan sucks and he can keep Iaiasa Thomas Laughing Laughing

Plus yeah you take those players, that would be nice for the rest of us Laughing Laughing


You still haven't said who you like. You simply hate and criticize. You're like one of those perma-bears on wall street who only predicts disaster. Until you commit and tell us who you like -- so we can make fun of your picks -- you have no credibility. Until then, all we can conclude is that you have no balls! Razz



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
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Bob Lamm



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Posts: 2726
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PostPosted: 03/11/19 11:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:
Dolan sucks, Dolan sucks and he can keep Iaiasa Thomas Laughing Laughing

Plus yeah you take those players, that would be nice for the rest of us Laughing Laughing


You still haven't said who you like. You simply hate and criticize. You're like one of those perma-bears on wall street who only predicts disaster. Until you commit and tell us who you like -- so we can make fun of your picks -- you have no credibility. Until then, all we can conclude is that you have no balls! Razz


Many of my favorite people in the world have no balls. But they have courage, boldness, and integrity.


Shades



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PostPosted: 03/12/19 1:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Still hoping they sign Boyd & a free agent PG. I'd love to have:

PG: Boyd/free agent
SG: Durr/Rodgers/Hartley
SF: Nurse/Allen or 3rd round pick
PF: Charles/Zahui B/Raincock-Ekunwe
C: Gustafson/Stokes



Boyd/Hartley
Durr/Rodgers/Mabrey
Nurse/Allen
Charles/Zahui B/Raincock-Ekunwe
Stokes/Gustafson

Jersey girl Mabrey at #26
If a player is starter quality, how are they going to end up at #14?
The Liberty are lucky like that?
They did get Nurse at #10 last year, but most likely the only way she got the opportunity to prove herself was because of multiple injuries. That’s how it is for low picks in the WNBA today.

What makes you assume Boyd is coming back? I still think she’s tied into the Sparks/Dallas shenanigans somehow.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 03/12/19 8:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Liberty have sign Reshandra Gray to a training camp invite. Are there any other players that we can bring in that weren't in our training camp last year? Any kind of new bodies would be welcoming news.



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Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 03/12/19 8:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:
Dolan sucks, Dolan sucks and he can keep Iaiasa Thomas Laughing Laughing

Plus yeah you take those players, that would be nice for the rest of us Laughing Laughing


You still haven't said who you like. You simply hate and criticize. You're like one of those perma-bears on wall street who only predicts disaster. Until you commit and tell us who you like -- so we can make fun of your picks -- you have no credibility. Until then, all we can conclude is that you have no balls! Razz


Aww Root and I really liked you. And here I thought I was posting on a message board, I must have missed the part where you need balls, fire the moderator for not asking for my balls. No credibility, thanks for pointing that out, can you point me in the direction of the credibility police so I can apply for my badge?

So don't hold your breath as I sit and ponder whether I will commit to any of your demands, unless of course you have some kind of incentive that you are holding back, please let me know so I can reconsider?

And hark, to all the GMs out there, will you please tell everyone who you really want and not FUCK with them as someone on a message board really thinks you have no balls? Cool



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 03/12/19 12:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
root_thing wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:
Dolan sucks, Dolan sucks and he can keep Iaiasa Thomas Laughing Laughing

Plus yeah you take those players, that would be nice for the rest of us Laughing Laughing


You still haven't said who you like. You simply hate and criticize. You're like one of those perma-bears on wall street who only predicts disaster. Until you commit and tell us who you like -- so we can make fun of your picks -- you have no credibility. Until then, all we can conclude is that you have no balls! Razz


Aww Root and I really liked you. And here I thought I was posting on a message board, I must have missed the part where you need balls, fire the moderator for not asking for my balls. No credibility, thanks for pointing that out, can you point me in the direction of the credibility police so I can apply for my badge?

So don't hold your breath as I sit and ponder whether I will commit to any of your demands, unless of course you have some kind of incentive that you are holding back, please let me know so I can reconsider?

And hark, to all the GMs out there, will you please tell everyone who you really want and not FUCK with them as someone on a message board really thinks you have no balls? Cool


Dude, you constantly ridicule other people's opinions. That's basically insulting us. And yet, you won't take a stance of your own and defend it. Yes, you deserve to be called out for that.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
LibFan25



Joined: 01 Sep 2012
Posts: 678
Location: NY


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PostPosted: 03/12/19 5:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Gray is just another body dummy for training camp, nothing more.

but it does bother me we keep bringin back the same ol players


toad455



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PostPosted: 03/12/19 6:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LibFan25 wrote:
Gray is just another body dummy for training camp, nothing more.

but it does bother me we keep bringin back the same ol players


There's literally a dozen PGs we can bring in to training camp. And we're still waiting on re-signing Boyd.



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LibFan25



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PostPosted: 03/12/19 6:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
LibFan25 wrote:
Gray is just another body dummy for training camp, nothing more.

but it does bother me we keep bringin back the same ol players


There's literally a dozen PGs we can bring in to training camp. And we're still waiting on re-signing Boyd.


so true, i really liked Loryn Goodwin last year out of college. she was drafted by Dallas the second round but got beat out by Chong in training camp.

why not give her another shot? but anyway, yeah i want Boyd back


tfan



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PostPosted: 03/12/19 11:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
bballjunkie wrote:
Porzingis escaped, but I do not understand why any player would want to play for him.


well, look at the team now. They got Deandre Jordan and a bunch of table scraps. I'm surprised Lance Thomas continues to stay with the team. No way Durant, Irving or any big-time free agent joins the Knicks with Dolan at the helm.


Dolan's money is just as green as any other filthy rich owner.


pilight



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PostPosted: 03/14/19 10:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Liberty have hired Jonathan Kolb as GM

https://liberty.wnba.com/news/liberty-announce-front-office-hire-gm-jonathan-kolb/

Quote:
Kolb joins the Liberty after working in the WNBA league office for five years, most recently serving as the Director of Basketball Strategy and Analytics. In the role he oversaw the management of the league’s roster and salary cap and assisted with collective bargaining agreement compliance. In addition, Kolb assisted in the streamlining of the league’s statistical monitoring systems, focusing on the potential on-court impact of proposed rule changes.



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