RebKell's Junkie Boards

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

[root_thing]

Katie Smith is out there working. She was in Morgantown last Sunday to watch West Virginia play Texas. Smith also had an interview with the Amsterdam News two days ago where she talked about preparing to make roster moves (vague references, nothing useful). I would expect that she's aware of the sale and if her job is at risk. My guess is that things remain status quo through the end of this season, and then the new owners will reassess.

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You can always do something else.

[J-Spoon]

Based on nothing at all except gut feeling I think the opposite.

If the announcement is next week it is because the new owner will want to implement change and it is just early enough to get it done.

Based on the rumors and rumblings this has probably been in the works a little bit so I wouldn't be surprised if there have also been some behind the scenes discussions around other issue like re organizing the top level structure as well as venue.

I doubt Dolan will care about the dates the Liberty already have at WCC and i am not sure a new owner would want another mediocre season in limbo. It may not even be a coincidence that the majority of game dates are still open at Barclays. This new owner sound like someone who would want to start out with a bang not a whimper

Maybe Smith has some form of guarantee for this season with the new owner and will get a lot of input on roster moves to get a head start on the transition. No contracts can be signed until February I won't be shocked at all if new executives and venue are part of the announcement.

[Bob Lamm]

[J-Spoon]

Now just to slightly change the subject or return to draft talk and maybe be a little contrversial

Ionescu declares, Laimbeer offers the #1 pick for Charles, the cored Charles is open to the trade, do you do it?

I could see Laimbeer making this offer he had some good years with Charles, Charles and Wilson could make a great position-less front-court similar to say Stewart and Howard or Parker and N. Ogwumike. Charles and Wilson with Plum and McBride on the perimeter would be a really hard line up to guard and is probably the quickest way LV could become a true title contender.

NY would basically be saying the Charles years are over and rebuilding for the future with the #1 (Ionescu) and #2 (Brown, McCowan, Collier, KLS, Durr, Ogunbowale) pick this year and a decent group of role players like Nurse, Boyd, Hartley, Rodgers, Stokes, NRE and Zahui B they would probably be headed for another year in the lottery or could attract some decent free agents (if they want to rebuild faster). If you think Ionescu is closer to the next Taurasi than the next Plum the team reset could lead to a brighter future for the New New York, or not.

[Bob Lamm]

I haven't seen enough of Ionescu to say how likely it is that she'll become a star in the WNBA. But, despite my complete admiration for Tina Charles, I'd trade her if the deal feels right. Four reasons:

1. In the heart of the 2019 season, Charles will be about 30 1/2 years old. In the heart of the 2020 season, she'll be about 31 1/2 years old. I can't imagine any way that the Liberty will be a genuine championship contender this season or next. How will Tina Charles's health hold up for the 2021 season (age 32 1/2) and beyond? How well will her skills hold up? For me, those are real questions.

2. Tina Charles's trade value can only go down each successive year.

3. Imagine keeping Charles and trying to build a serious championship contender around her. In my view, the likely roster for 2019, even with the current first-round pick, even with a free-agent signing or two, will be FAR from encouraging. Of the players from last year's roster who will or may return, the only ones I view as starters on a championship contender are Charles and Nurse. I view all the rest as at best good bench players.

4. Perhaps saying this will be heresy, but I'd love to see Tina Charles win a WNBA championship somewhere and I fear it will have to be for some other team.

I don't see anything great happening for New York in 2019 or 2020. I'd be very sad to see Tina Charles go, but I believe the Liberty needs a dramatic rebuild.

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[Shades]

Laimbeer isn’t going to trade for Tina Charles. He’s already got his much younger and further along at same point of career version in A’ja Wilson.

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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned

[Randy]

[toad455]

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

I don't think that's enough for Tina. Meesseman rarely draws double teams. Tina destroys 1 on 1 coverage if it happens and then faces 2 or 3 defenders for the remainder of a game. I think trading Tina for fair value is going to be very difficult, thus I'd keep her. First off, there's probably only two teams she'd agree to go to, and both of those teams have 4 spot players already. Secondly, Laimbeer isn't trading for Tina. He won't want her to play C and Vegas is already one of the league's best scoring teams and one of the poorer ones defensively. They'd be much better served, if Ionescu declares, to trade down to 2. Get a true C who provides length at the rim. Get something from the Libs that would benefit them and the system Laimbeer uses and trade from the surplus. It would be sensible in my mind to trade Jefferson. She's a bad fit the way Vegas plays, yet she could really help a team with a different system. A Thibault philosophy would be very good for her I think...and it would help the Mystics as well. They were very thin at PG last year...occasionally rotating TRP into that mix when they had injuries. I legitimately think if the Liberty offered Boyd and #2 for #1 that Laimbeer would be interested in that. Plum remains your PG. McBride is etched in at 2...and not likely to move to the 3. Coffey played well at 3 till she got hurt and they also have Young for depth. They're basically a rim protector away from being a top 4 team.

Back to NY, I'm not trading Tina unless you get a proven franchise player. A number one scorer who can carry a team even against double or triple teams. Given her age and rebounding drop-off that's probably unrealistic. That doesn't mean I'm trading her for less than her value just because she's about to be 30 years old. If the Liberty are judicious this offseason, they'll be able to add a minimum of one impact player in the draft. They should also either find a way to play Nurse starters' minutes or trade her for someone else who can. The #14 pick also has a chance to be a rotation player. I can think of a few (Mabrey, Kea) who could help the Liberty immediately. That may be a team that's still a ways from winning but I think trading Charles only makes your rebuild that much longer. In two years Tina is still going to be a primary scorer as long as she is healthy. She has more post moves than any post player in the world. Even at 32 you aren't replacing that. So...I'd find my pieces elsewhere. #2 in this draft is a good start. Nurse is a building block with value either to her own team or elsewhere. If the team isn't good this year (the rationale for a full-scale rebuild in the first place) they will have another lottery pick next year. So if you're telling me that two lottery picks, Nurse (or someone you acquire for her) a #14 pick in the deepest draft in memory and a very good free agent class isn't good enough to help you be a strong team by next year, then Tina isn't your problem. Management is. If you're not winning in 2020 with those types of assets around your proven 20 ppg scorer you need a new GM and a new coach.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[toad455]

It's up to Charles. Hopefully with the new ownership she stays, especially if even a portion of games get played in Brooklyn.

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LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY

[J-Spoon]

Just for clarification I was presenting a hypothetical I never said Charles wanted out or that we should trade Charles

However I do think Laimbeer would want Charles I think Tina and Aja's game could be very complimentary and a team with Charles as your second post option with decent 3 point shooters on the perimeter would be a ccontender imo just look at Seattle and LA's championship teams. #1 for Charles would be the better quality version of #1 for Tan Smith PIX won because of that trade

[toad455]

Both Charles and Wilson are PFs under Laimbeer, so no. If Charles is to go anywhere best for her; Chicago & Phoenix are tops.

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LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY

[J-Spoon]

[Shades]

[Michelle89]

If Charles wants out then you are not getting equal value for her. It almost never happens. Meesseman and 10th pick sounds pretty oke to me.

Tbh i was a bit disappointed with what i saw when Stewart and Charles played overseas together at Kursk. It didnt match that well IMO so i dont know how that would go with Wilson and Charles together.. I think that would result in Wilson being too much on the perimeter just like Stewie was..

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[CamrnCrz1974]

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

There's truth to that perspective. But I'd say that was a by-product of a lack of 5-spot talent rather than a desire to use Wilson at the 5 spot. Laimbeer said himself (I know he doesn't always do exactly as he says by design) that he viewed Wilson at the 4 as a player who could penetrate and use her quickness to score and draw fouls. Which is the majority of how she was used. Your point, however, is true just the same. But then I'd look at how Tina was used by Bill. Bill moved her to PF in 2014 part-time...then did it full-time in 2015. My thought is twofold on the future of the Aces with all this in mind.

A) I think if Bill has his ideal type of team, he'd have a taller and stronger player at the 5 spot than either Wilson or Tina.

B) Vegas is a better offensive team than it is a defensive team...6th in offensive points per possession...8th on defense. I'd view McCowan as more influential in terms of improving their defense than I would Tina. Vegas needs a rim protector badly alongside Wilson. Plus she's younger and cheaper in terms of the cap.

That's not to say there isn't an argument for Tina. 20 ppg players don't often find themselves available and you'd have 2 on the same team to go with McBride and Plum. That's a scary amount of offense and a pretty strong rebounding team as well. And Tina is a solid man defender. She just doesn't protect the rim that well. Then there's the fact that McCowan's only offense is a layup. Question becomes...can a team win a championship without being a top defensive team? I believe every championship team since 2010 has been in the top 3 of points per possession against. Would Vegas be of that caliber defensively as a result of adding Tina? I don't see how. So I'd ask, in spite of that likelihood, could Vegas move toward championship caliber by adding Tina, just on the strength of its offense and rebounding? I think the only way you trade a #1 overall pick for Tina is if you think you can win a championship by doing so.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[stever]

https://elitesportsny.com/2019/01/17/new-york-liberty-2019-free-agency-preview-crucial-times/

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[ClayK]

The shaky credibility of the writer is undermined by his inability to spell Zahui's name -- not to mention naming Marissa Coleman as a valuable free agent.

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[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

[Richyyy]

[root_thing]

Even if it's true, what's the significance? You might make a more impressive case by simply saying the Liberty didn't win a single game when Zellous didn't play. However, the response would be that New York was 7-15 with her on the court, which is nothing to boast about either. Sometimes, the analytical stuff is just meaningless overthinking. It's no surprise that any time someone not named Tina scores double digits, the offensively deficient Liberty have a better chance of winning. They are always searching for those additional scorers and on that particular day, they found at least one.

He lost me early on with this sentence:

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]