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root_thing



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PostPosted: 12/30/18 10:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:

I still say since we have a lot of rfas if we trade into the 8-12 range with an RFA and the 14 and pick up say a Cunningham with that second pick...I feel the is enough at 2 that if you go 3 or post at the 2 pick there's value late first worth offloading someone with the 14 pick thoughts?


If NY can turn any of their existing players not named Charles, Nurse or Boyd into picks, they should do it. Even Nurse has had a worrisome season in Australia. She got off to a hot start, has played well the last two games, but in-between Kia shot around 30% for ten games. Boyd, of course, has yet to establish her outside shot and she regularly misses layups. However, when she doesn't try to do too much, Brittany is a very good playmaker and she can be disruptive on defense. I'm happy to give Boyd a new contract, but if a worthwhile trade comes along she is certainly not untouchable.

I am even more confident now that there will be a useful player available at #14. Not a starter level player, but someone who can make an impact off the bench like Stokes and Boyd did in 2015. So, if we add #2, #14, and can turn one of the veterans into even a high 2nd Round pick, I think with judicious rebalancing we can significantly improve the roster. The fly in the ointment is that we don't know who is making the decisions and if they're competent. We also don't know if the coach is competent. Worst of all, they may be the same person.



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PostPosted: 12/30/18 11:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I’ve been wanting Reeve to check into Zahui for #16, so I like the way you guys are thinking. Sign her for $100K and ship her out to the Lynx. Cool



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PostPosted: 12/30/18 11:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
I’ve been wanting Reeve to check into Zahui for #16, so I like the way you guys are thinking. Sign her for $100K and ship her out to the Lynx. Cool


Not unless she has been talking to GMSpacejunkie or GMShades. More likely she offers Kia Vaughn a max deal instead. Razz (Ok, I know that was mean.)




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toad455



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PostPosted: 12/30/18 11:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If the Liberty let Zahui B go elsewhere, we're likely to re-sign Vaughn. Not really desirable, so you have to wonder how much the Liberty will match. She's not a max player, so you also have to wonder how much other teams will throw at her.



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PostPosted: 12/30/18 3:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
The fly in the ointment is that we don't know who is making the decisions and if they're competent. We also don't know if the coach is competent. Worst of all, they may be the same person.


Well said. I find it difficult to feel any confidence.


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PostPosted: 12/30/18 5:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Happycappie25 wrote:

I still say since we have a lot of rfas if we trade into the 8-12 range with an RFA and the 14 and pick up say a Cunningham with that second pick...I feel the is enough at 2 that if you go 3 or post at the 2 pick there's value late first worth offloading someone with the 14 pick thoughts?


If NY can turn any of their existing players not named Charles, Nurse or Boyd into picks, they should do it. Even Nurse has had a worrisome season in Australia. She got off to a hot start, has played well the last two games, but in-between Kia shot around 30% for ten games. Boyd, of course, has yet to establish her outside shot and she regularly misses layups. However, when she doesn't try to do too much, Brittany is a very good playmaker and she can be disruptive on defense. I'm happy to give Boyd a new contract, but if a worthwhile trade comes along she is certainly not untouchable.

I am even more confident now that there will be a useful player available at #14. Not a starter level player, but someone who can make an impact off the bench like Stokes and Boyd did in 2015. So, if we add #2, #14, and can turn one of the veterans into even a high 2nd Round pick, I think with judicious rebalancing we can significantly improve the roster. The fly in the ointment is that we don't know who is making the decisions and if they're competent. We also don't know if the coach is competent. Worst of all, they may be the same person.


Nurse is shooting 38% from the field in a league where Kelsey Griffin shoots 57% and averages almost 20 ppg. That's not exactly awe-inspiring although it does appear they lean on her for much of their perimeter scoring. Still, a cause for concern.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/sport/basketball/kia-nurse-lights-up-canberra-capitals-in-townsville-fire-thrashing-20181228-p50oma.html

In the article above, she says something about being worried about hitting too many shots in warmups because it sometimes means you hit fewer in the game itself. What??? I've never heard that type of thought process before. It's strange.

Regarding the confidence in the organization....none here either. Confidence is earned. I have an open mind about 2019 but I'll believe in results only when I see them first.

At least the Yankees appear good in 2019. The rest of my teams (Jets, Devils, Liberty) are terrible, though the first two each have pieces that might make them better quickly.



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PostPosted: 12/30/18 8:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I imagine Griffin plays the PF in the WNBL, which has always even her most comfortable position. She needed to convert to a SF in the WNBA, but didn’t seem to have the success of Clark in achieving that.



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PostPosted: 12/30/18 9:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
root_thing wrote:
Happycappie25 wrote:

I still say since we have a lot of rfas if we trade into the 8-12 range with an RFA and the 14 and pick up say a Cunningham with that second pick...I feel the is enough at 2 that if you go 3 or post at the 2 pick there's value late first worth offloading someone with the 14 pick thoughts?


If NY can turn any of their existing players not named Charles, Nurse or Boyd into picks, they should do it. Even Nurse has had a worrisome season in Australia. She got off to a hot start, has played well the last two games, but in-between Kia shot around 30% for ten games. Boyd, of course, has yet to establish her outside shot and she regularly misses layups. However, when she doesn't try to do too much, Brittany is a very good playmaker and she can be disruptive on defense. I'm happy to give Boyd a new contract, but if a worthwhile trade comes along she is certainly not untouchable.

I am even more confident now that there will be a useful player available at #14. Not a starter level player, but someone who can make an impact off the bench like Stokes and Boyd did in 2015. So, if we add #2, #14, and can turn one of the veterans into even a high 2nd Round pick, I think with judicious rebalancing we can significantly improve the roster. The fly in the ointment is that we don't know who is making the decisions and if they're competent. We also don't know if the coach is competent. Worst of all, they may be the same person.


Nurse is shooting 38% from the field in a league where Kelsey Griffin shoots 57% and averages almost 20 ppg. That's not exactly awe-inspiring although it does appear they lean on her for much of their perimeter scoring. Still, a cause for concern.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/sport/basketball/kia-nurse-lights-up-canberra-capitals-in-townsville-fire-thrashing-20181228-p50oma.html

In the article above, she says something about being worried about hitting too many shots in warmups because it sometimes means you hit fewer in the game itself. What??? I've never heard that type of thought process before. It's strange.

Regarding the confidence in the organization....none here either. Confidence is earned. I have an open mind about 2019 but I'll believe in results only when I see them first.

At least the Yankees appear good in 2019. The rest of my teams (Jets, Devils, Liberty) are terrible, though the first two each have pieces that might make them better quickly.


This a little OT but I take it that you are sold on Sam Darnold as the franchise QB for the Jets? What about the other pieces on the team such as the rest of the offense and the defense? Who would you be your choice for HC if Bowles is fired?


root_thing



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PostPosted: 12/30/18 10:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:

In the article above, she says something about being worried about hitting too many shots in warmups because it sometimes means you hit fewer in the game itself. What??? I've never heard that type of thought process before. It's strange.


There's a simple explanation - Kia is insane. Laughing

During her career, Nurse has often come out in the 1st Half and simply shot the lights out. Then she cools off in the 2nd Half. I think this is a case of rationalization after the fact. She sees a pattern and turns it into superstition. However, if Kia truly believes the theory, then she should limit her number of makes during warm-ups. Like, stop after six no matter how many attempts.



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PostPosted: 12/30/18 11:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:

In the article above, she says something about being worried about hitting too many shots in warmups because it sometimes means you hit fewer in the game itself. What??? I've never heard that type of thought process before. It's strange.

There's a simple explanation - Kia is insane. Laughing

I used to have a similar thing back when I played, and I'd say Kia's is mostly joking as mine was.
Some nights you can't miss during warm-ups, but naturally that doesn't translate to 100% shooting in the game. Other nights they don't come out of the hand too well during warm-ups but still drop in the game when it matters. So when you're bricking them in warm-ups it becomes "don't worry, I'm saving up the makes for the game"

She had a few bad perimeter shooting games in a row a little while back as noted in the WNBL thead, but overall she is 36% which is still decent.
(She is WNBL POTW this week btw, for scoring 33 & 26 in her 2 games, incl 13/22 3P)



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PostPosted: 12/31/18 5:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Which #14 draft picks turned out to be serviceable players? I'm not convinced this draft is so strong that #14 has a good chance to help immediately. Of course, some #14s do, but so do some #22s.



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PostPosted: 12/31/18 5:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Which #14 draft picks turned out to be serviceable players? I'm not convinced this draft is so strong that #14 has a good chance to help immediately. Of course, some #14s do, but so do some #22s.


It is a little early to tell on some of these, but here is a list of players drafted 14 or later.
2018
S. Mavunga
Monique Billings
Ji-Su Park
M. Hines-Allen
2017
Lindsey Allen
2016
Temi Fagbenle
2015
Natasha Cloud
2014
Astou Ndour
Teresa Plaisance
J.Faulkner
A. Taylor
2013
Sugar Rodgers
Emma Messeman
2012
Tiffany Hayes
R. Williams
Lynetta Kizer

Also - in 2011 Jessica Breland was drafted 13th while in 2013 Alex Bentley was drafted 13th. So that's close. I believe both have been All Stars. As an aside - the Dream have to lead the WNBA in players drafted in the second round who are starters and have been All Stars.

So there are some, but hard to count on it. Hayes was All WNBA this year. I think Messeman has been an All Star.


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PostPosted: 12/31/18 5:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Which #14 draft picks turned out to be serviceable players? I'm not convinced this draft is so strong that #14 has a good chance to help immediately. Of course, some #14s do, but so do some #22s.


I don't necessarily see a bunch of All-Stars in this draft, but more or less a lot of 6th woman type players. I feel anyone drafted in the second round has a solid chance to make a roster on any team.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 12/31/18 6:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Which #14 draft picks turned out to be serviceable players? I'm not convinced this draft is so strong that #14 has a good chance to help immediately. Of course, some #14s do, but so do some #22s.


Right now, this does not look like a typical top-heavy draft. There is less convincing talent at the top, but more depth in terms of players who would normally fill the middle and bottom of a 1st Round. The excess will spill into the 2nd Round.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: the average WNBA player is very replaceable. Two seasons ago, Phoenix replaced 10 out of 12 players and ended up improving by two wins. LA replaced almost their entire bench from a championship team and once again got to the finals -- barely losing in Game 5. Dallas added six new players -- five of them rookies -- and improved by 5 wins. NY needs to reshuffle the deck. I think the #14 pick in a deep draft if targeted to fill a specific need can make an impact off the bench. Obviously, this requires astute management, which NY may or may not have.



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PostPosted: 01/09/19 5:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, well, well, this is some interesting news. STHs, what do you think?

https://apnews.com/85bc4d6de70a4c5a893a00bc37a9231a?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP_Sports

AP source: Nets minority owner’s group nearing Liberty deal


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PostPosted: 01/09/19 5:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

BamaEd wrote:
Well, well, well, this is some interesting news. STHs, what do you think?

https://apnews.com/85bc4d6de70a4c5a893a00bc37a9231a?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP_Sports

AP source: Nets minority owner’s group nearing Liberty deal


I think I put it in this thread during the WNBA playoffs that I was on a plane with Theresa Pleasance and she said the liberty were probably going to move to Brooklyn next season.


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PostPosted: 01/09/19 9:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shmermerer1 wrote:
BamaEd wrote:
Well, well, well, this is some interesting news. STHs, what do you think?

https://apnews.com/85bc4d6de70a4c5a893a00bc37a9231a?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP_Sports

AP source: Nets minority owner’s group nearing Liberty deal


I think I put it in this thread during the WNBA playoffs that I was on a plane with Theresa Pleasance and she said the liberty were probably going to move to Brooklyn next season.



This you did. I rememeber as well. Great work!



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PostPosted: 01/12/19 9:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

First off agreed on that info from the Plaisance discussion. Good to hear that potential is on the horizon in terms of a billionaire owner who will keep the team in NY. I'd think Brooklyn would be the choice over Nassau because I think Brooklyn will be a draw. LI I don't think would be. Brooklyn people take pride in their teams.

Regarding the Liberty and its draft position, I have some evolving thoughts. First off I think it's clear that every top 5 senior has a deficiency that makes it difficult to assess their future potential. Here's my take now that I've seen every player play a few times.

Before I go in on the seniors I'll also say that Ionescu is the clear top pick should she come out. I'd be curious to see if the Libs could potentially flip-flop picks with Vegas being that Vegas is already a high octane offensive team desperately in need of rim protection in the middle. I wonder if Boyd and #2 would be enough to move to #1 as it would also give Vegas the potential to trade Moriah Jefferson. Anyway, other than the Ionescu scenarios, here's my take.

Kalani Brown-Stock obviously up after her Connecticut performance, but I'd use caution in overanalyzing that performance. I read Megdal's latest mock draft and he talked about talent evaluators considering her as stock up. While I get that, I also feel like the skills she displayed should already be known. We know she's a good mid-range shooter. We know she can rebound over smaller players. We know she's good on the left block. I like her game and her BB IQ. I think WNBA spacing will help her game. She's also not super-quick or agile. She's not that physical. Would she help the Libs? Definitely. Would I take her if Ionescu is unavailable? Yes. Do I think she's a guaranteed threat to do SOME scoring? Yes. Do I think there's question marks as to whether she's just a run-of-the-mill starter or more than that? For sure. That said, a 6'7" player with long arms who can shoot from 18" is a weapon. She'd immediately make the Liberty better. Regarding the CT game, they played most of it without a C. So let's put her performance in perspective.


Asia Durr-I've warmed to parts of her game but still have reservations. I see her as being improved going to the rim and passing the ball. She had a big-time game against the #1 team in the country after several down games against elevated competition. Her 3 point percentage is down to .316...mainly because she seems far more willing to take off-balance 3s off the dribble that she is struggling to make. Those are the kinds of shots that the franchise players like the Moores and Taurasis can make. I also think that she doesn't combine scoring and passing that well at the same time because she's not a natural vision player. On the positive side, her 2 point percentage and FTs are way up. I feel like she has probably acknowledged that's an area of her game she needed to do better with and to her credit, she has. She's still very heavily left hand but actually can drive right handed with at least some efficiency. There are scenarios in which I wouldn't be too mad at the Libs picking her (trading Nurse or Nurse/Hartley to Dallas for the 5th pick, getting a Latoya Sanders as a FA, etc.). More on those scenarios later.

Katie Lou-Stock mixed. Less-than-stellar in big games. Faced double-teams in most screen and roll situations vs. Baylor, which resulted in a lot of flat, missed 3s. Plus side is she added some penetration moves and a mid-range step-back. She's an improved rebounder. She is a good passer who plays within the flow of an offense. WNBA spacing should be an enormous help to her, and she'd be a fit if Katie Smith wants to use occasional undersized lineups. I'm not as worried about her defense as some people because she's a long-strider with length. Those types (i.e. EDD) can be labeled as worse defensively than they really are. I'm not saying she's DPOY worthy. But I don't see her as anymore or less a defensive liability than Durr, who's probably Louisville's worst perimeter defender. I'd take her at #2 over Durr if they're not going for a C and IF they are not clearing the logjam at 2 guard.

McCowan-Still a dominant physical talent. Has size, agility and length. Will be an immediate defensive force and rebounder who can chip in with occasional layups for scoring. But she has no offensive moves that are WNBA-worthy. Just on talent alone, with the WNBA's wider spacing, she'll probably average double digits as a rookie if she gets the minutes. But I think you want your 6'7" talent to do more. Can she someday? Maybe. But there's no guessing for sure if she will or not.

Collier-I still love her game. She gets points within the flow of the offense and unlike what people say, she has a perimeter game. Yes, she is only shooting 21% from three but her mid-range game is just fine. Facing up over Lauren Cox, she easily scored from mid-range multiple times. She can also score inside against smaller WNBA SFs. I'm telling you, and feel free to mark my words and address this if I'm wrong, but she's WNBA ready at SF right now. She scores 18 ppg and rebounds extremely well at her size. She can pass. And she scores that much with very limited touches relative to a big scorer. Plus, she can shoot from 18 feet. If she can shoot from 18 feet, she can become more consistent from 22. It's also not her fault that she plays with nothing but perimeter players on her college team. It forces her to play out of position and she STILL thrives. On the Libs, Z plays a lot of SF. She does almost all her scoring from mid-range. Collier can do that too, but better. I'd characterize Z as a solid sixth or seventh player at this stage of her career. Collier is better than her right now. With some development time...

Plus she could also do that undersized power forward thing and actually do it well if that's what Katie Smith wants to do. Collier is strong. She has very strong hands and is an excellent rebounder. She'd give the Libs considerable flexibility.

On Dallas having the fifth pick and the Libs attempting to trade for it...Agler is a defensive coach. LA thrived using AB as an on-the-ball shutdown defender. Dallas already has several SFs and the potential to use big lineups with Glory at SF. What they don't have is a shutdown perimeter defender. They could legitimately use Kia Nurse more than Katie Lou or Collier. They could also use Hartley as a backup guard...something they needed desperately last year. I love Nurse but the Libs have more of a need for what a Katie Lou or Collier can do. Conversely, Dallas has more of a need for what Nurse can do. If you think about it, it makes a ton of sense for both teams. In this scenario, I'd still rather have Brown or McCowan, but I'd certainly be a lot happier with Durr. I'm really down on Stokes right now (bad overseas stats) but a lineup of Boyd, Durr, KLS/Collier, Tina and maybe a Sanders in FA would be nice. A lot of scoring there. And you'd still have your #1 pick next year as insurance if the team's defense and rebounding still aren't that good. I think the rebounding would be better with either KLS or Collier at the 3 spot. Plus a healthy Stokes would at least be a better rebounder than an unhealthy one. Either way, if the team still isn't good, you'd have your #1 pick while still adding needed pieces right now.



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PostPosted: 01/12/19 10:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Were not trading the 5th pick. Just a word to the wise.



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PostPosted: 01/12/19 10:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Were not trading the 5th pick. Just a word to the wise.


You may be right. Doesn’t really change the fact that both personnel-wise and fit for Agler that it would make total sense.

But if no mid-round trades involving Collier turn out to be on the table, then my attitude toward Durr changes dramatically. No sense in bringing Durr if you’re keeping Nurse. Nurse should become a building block player at her natural position...unless she physically fills out over time. Then your move has to be SF or big. In this scenario I wouldn’t be opposed to either UConn player to play with Nurse, a former teammate. If trading down from 2 nets you Collier (could slip to 6 or 7) and some additional value, I’d also consider that a no-brainer. The Lynx arguably also have more of a need for Nurse as a potential shutdown defender than Collier, though either player would be a great fit with Maya Moore. Collier also could do the undersized 4 thing for the Lynx. Whereas with Dallas they’re jammed at both the 3 and 4 spots but kind of light in terms of players who give you all the aspects of guard play.



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PostPosted: 01/12/19 11:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My plan right now is to remain aloof unless a couple of players really excel and separate themselves from the pack. Between the uncertainty over what Katie Smith wants (or if she's actually making the decisions) and disagreement over the quality of these prospects, I won't let myself grow attached to any particular player. It's like living on a farm and naming the turkey right before Thanksgiving. You can't make something your pet when there's a good chance it will be taken away from you. At this point, I can probably live with any of the top six players (Brown, Collier, Durr, McCowan, Ogunbowale, Samuelson). Just don't do anything totally stupid -- you know, like something along the lines of drafting Molly Creamer out of Bucknell.



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PostPosted: 01/12/19 11:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If the team gets sold, who will be the GM? Who will be the coach? Is it too late to get somebody else, or will they be of the opposite mindset and let Smith be both GM and coach. If this ownership group was following along this last season, they might consider starting with a whole new front office including the coach, kinda like Vegas did... only they brought a remnant along in VJ.

Free agency starts in a few days, so maybe they’ll be stuck with the current group.



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PostPosted: 01/12/19 12:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
If the team gets sold, who will be the GM? Who will be the coach? Is it too late to get somebody else, or will they be of the opposite mindset and let Smith be both GM and coach. If this ownership group was following along this last season, they might consider starting with a whole new front office including the coach, kinda like Vegas did... only they brought a remnant along in VJ.

Free agency starts in a few days, so maybe they’ll be stuck with the current group.


hopefully there's an announcement regarding the sale to Tsai soon. Once that happens, the rest of the questions can follow.



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PostPosted: 01/12/19 5:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Assuming the sale goes through, I see two options as to what's ahead regarding the front office and coaching:

1. Most likely scenario: it's too late to make such changes for the 2019 season. Just stick with whoever is actually making front office decisions, stick with Katie Smith as coach, and assume there will be a new regime in 2020 unless the Liberty have a surprisingly terrific season.

2. If Tsai and his associates have known for a good while that this sale was likely to happen, they may have been researching the options and planning some major moves once the deal is announced. It could be that a new GM and a new coach are already ready to take over.

I expect to see option #1 rather than option #2, but option #2 isn't out of the question.


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PostPosted: 01/12/19 7:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
My plan right now is to remain aloof unless a couple of players really excel and separate themselves from the pack. Between the uncertainty over what Katie Smith wants (or if she's actually making the decisions) and disagreement over the quality of these prospects, I won't let myself grow attached to any particular player. It's like living on a farm and naming the turkey right before Thanksgiving. You can't make something your pet when there's a good chance it will be taken away from you. At this point, I can probably live with any of the top six players (Brown, Collier, Durr, McCowan, Ogunbowale, Samuelson). Just don't do anything totally stupid -- you know, like something along the lines of drafting Molly Creamer out of Bucknell.


Yeah that’s why I’ve warmed to Durr, provided they clear their logjam at her position. That whole pack of seniors is very similar in actual value. Hoping the Libs use the offseason to make a minimum of two starting lineup changes and/or position upgrades (ideally hoping for 3). But if they upgrade two positions and can do so without giving up next year’s number 1 I’d be pretty happy.



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