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toad455



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 3:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nice article on Johannes.

https://theathletic.com/1128658/?amp#click=https://t.co/SKoacOy8XT



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Lib Fan



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 3:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Angel is a speed and penetration player coming off an ACL. More than half her success has involved getting free throw attempts. Returning to that form at that age with that injury is dicey.


I agree and do we really want her on the team ?



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 4:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lib Fan wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Angel is a speed and penetration player coming off an ACL. More than half her success has involved getting free throw attempts. Returning to that form at that age with that injury is dicey.


I agree and do we really want her on the team ?


I definitely do not. She’s used to being far and away the do-it-all playmaker. Ain’t gonna happen on this team.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 4:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
For what it's worth...Not that it means anything...I just think Nurse is smaller than listed.


I suppose we could go back and forth all day and between camera angle, slouching, bending, leaning, and lens type nothing would be conclusive. I will however point out that in your pictures Nurse is standing back farther from the camera than Taurasi or Moore. Just look at their feet. Here are the pictures I previously posted. The bottom one is Kia with Shona Thorburn, who is listed at 5-10.






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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 4:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don’t think Nurse’s height or length are up for debate. She’s long, tall and lean. The lean part is the issue but young players often fill out. In an ideal world you’d have Nurse and someone who can physically dominate the 3 spot. But moving forward I’d expect both Durr and Nurse to physically develop and learn veteran tricks. To have a young wing tandem like that moving forward is fine.

I’m not looking to win a title in 2020. What I do want is another long-term nucleus player. If we are fortunate enough to get Ionescu, your 1-3 slots are covered for a decade with a “big 3” many teams will envy.

And, somewhere along the line there’s likely to be a vet who demands a trade to NY to play with those 3. All I can say is if you give me Ionescu, Durr and Nurse for the next ten years, I’m a very happy fan.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 5:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:



I don't believe Thorburn is a legit 5'10......But I'm going to let it rest. I'm not going to get into a back and forth with Liberty fans. The same Liberty fans (Not necessarily you) that said Zahui b was only 6'2...when she's clearly a legit 6'4.......I'll just post this last picture....And won't comment anymore on Nurse height (I still think she's closer to 5'11 than 6'0)

Nurse,Thorburn and Miah Marie Langlois who is listed at 5'8



Of course, people do grow. So it's plausible Thorburn grew 1-2 inches.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 6:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nurse is taller than Taurasi and pretty close to Maya in those pics. I’m not really sure what you’re seeing. As for Zahui, I’ve seen her from five feet away. She’s not 6’5” but she’s definitely taller than 6’2”. Doesn’t have long arms though.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 6:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Nurse is taller than Taurasi and pretty close to Maya in those pics. I’m not really sure what you’re seeing. As for Zahui, I’ve seen her from five feet away. She’s not 6’5” but she’s definitely taller than 6’2”. Doesn’t have long arms though.


Taurasi's clearly leaning to the side....Nurse and Taurasi are about the same height, Maya is an inch taller than both of them.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 9:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:

Of course, people do grow. So it's plausible Thorburn grew 1-2 inches.


Thorburn is 14 years older than Nurse, so regardless of when that picture was taken Shona stopped growing. Smile However, Nurse is clearly tilted and Thorburn looks hunched.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 9:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Does this really matter?



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 9:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rooting for Ionescu and not saying things are fixed but NY moving to Brooklyn getting the #1 pick would be an awesome big boost to a struggling original franchise.

With that said NY seems to have a little bit of a black cloud around it, so when we end up with the #4 pick and some of our internationals miss the season because of the Olympics we get something like this maybe, would this look OK?

Durr/L. Allen/#13 Harris or Cooper or Mangakahia
Nurse/Hartley
#4 K. Charles/R. Allen
Charles/Gray
Zahui B/Stokes/IMS

no true PG in the starting lining up but maybe enough handle and passing between Durr, Nurse and K. Charles to get away with it.


zune69



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 9:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Does this really matter?


No. Nurse's height is a non-issue. But I do think playing SF rather than SG has worn Kia down and contributed to her late season slump....Nurse is 10 for 45 (22%) in the last 5 games. If Nurse was playing SG. I believe the chances of her going into a post all star game slump would've been less likely.


LibFan25



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 10:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We had a chance to get a SF a few times, could of got Coffey for nothing. Could of got Nared, could of signed Laney in the off season. We had our chances to makes some moves but of course this management likes to keep the same status quo players and never take chances to improve so...


LibFan25



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 10:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Rooting for Ionescu and not saying things are fixed but NY moving to Brooklyn getting the #1 pick would be an awesome big boost to a struggling original franchise.

With that said NY seems to have a little bit of a black cloud around it, so when we end up with the #4 pick and some of our internationals miss the season because of the Olympics we get something like this maybe, would this look OK?

Durr/L. Allen/#13 Harris or Cooper or Mangakahia
Nurse/Hartley
#4 K. Charles/R. Allen
Charles/Gray
Zahui B/Stokes/IMS

no true PG in the starting lining up but maybe enough handle and passing between Durr, Nurse and K. Charles to get away with it.


I like K. Charles from Maryland, very athletic, has a nice jump shot, nice handle, I would like to see her improve the 3pt shot

Te'a Cooper is a interesting one for me, ima be watching her closely playing for the lady Bears this fall


Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 08/12/19 11:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Rooting for Ionescu and not saying things are fixed but NY moving to Brooklyn getting the #1 pick would be an awesome big boost to a struggling original franchise.


+1. Ionescu would surely have to transform into a floor-general PG in this scenario, whereas she has mostly been a SG up to this point. There will be a learning curve for at least the first 1-2 years if not more. She has the leadership and work ethic to make the adjustment, but hopefully NY fans will know to have a little patience - even if a new, good coach is hired, a turnaround may not be as quick as fans desperately want. I don’t think Ionescu will be Maya Moore-like in terms of being a big missing piece to a mostly solved puzzle of a team. Hope to be wrong though!

J-Spoon wrote:
With that said NY seems to have a little bit of a black cloud around it, so when we end up with the #4 pick


Laughing but also Confused and Crying or Very sad I have the same mentality when it comes to my baseball team, the Seattle Mariners: Home of the Longest Active Playoff Drought in the Big 4 American Sports Leagues


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 8:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ionescu has natural PG skills that coupled with Cazorla’s departure will probably result in her playing PG primarily this year anyway. The Libs also desperately need the competitive nature and dedication to basketball that she would bring.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2817445-sabrina-ionescu-is-always-on.amp.html



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 9:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LibFan25 wrote:

I like K. Charles from Maryland, very athletic, has a nice jump shot, nice handle, I would like to see her improve the 3pt shot

Te'a Cooper is a interesting one for me, ima be watching her closely playing for the lady Bears this fall


Not to pick on you specifically because these are two players who get a lot of love on Rebkell, but it somewhat puzzles me. Does Kaila Charles need to improve her 3-pt shot or find one? She was 1-14 last year and 7-35 in her career. After people on this board killed Collier and Jackie Young for not shooting 3s, I'm surprised no one is complaining about it for Charles.

As far as Cooper goes, can we wait until she actually has a good year in college before we project her into the 1st Round? Cooper has somehow made it to grad student status while playing only 2 years. In her first season, Te'a shot 36.9%, had 23 more turnovers than assists, then got kicked off Tennessee's team for fighting with a teammate. Next, she moves to South Carolina and has an OK but not great season (note still more TOs than assists). The Gamecocks paid two years of tuition for that one season, but Cooper shows her gratitude by bolting for Baylor. So, history indicates that Cooper is a potential troublemaker, she's disloyal, and if you're a Liberty fan looking for a PG, Te'a averages only 2.1 apg while compiling more TOs than assists. This at the college level. I'm not seeing how she is an improvement over Boyd and Hartley. Yes, Cooper still has her whole senior season to improve, and Mulkey did a nice job turning Chloe Jackson into a decent college PG, but right now it's a big leap of faith to think Cooper is a solution to the point guard problems of any WNBA team.



_________________
Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 13172



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 9:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

With what we've experienced the past few years, the only solutions for me are true pass-first PG types who are comfortable orchestrating an offense. Should we get to the greatest lottery odds, that assures us a top-3 pick, which would mean either Ionescu, Cox or probably Sabally. Sabally would be converting to a new position if she were to play for NY, so that would be murky, but it would be hard to pass on the talent.

For me, Ionescu not only represents the ability, but also the leadership the Liberty need from a core young player. Durr also knows her, which would be another plus. If we are unable to get Ionescu, then for me the only solution is a veteran who has proven she can play the position. Dangerfield is a good player, but I don't see her as a top-3 pick in this draft.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 11:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
With what we've experienced the past few years, the only solutions for me are true pass-first PG types who are comfortable orchestrating an offense. Should we get to the greatest lottery odds, that assures us a top-3 pick, which would mean either Ionescu, Cox or probably Sabally. Sabally would be converting to a new position if she were to play for NY, so that would be murky, but it would be hard to pass on the talent.

For me, Ionescu not only represents the ability, but also the leadership the Liberty need from a core young player. Durr also knows her, which would be another plus. If we are unable to get Ionescu, then for me the only solution is a veteran who has proven she can play the position. Dangerfield is a good player, but I don't see her as a top-3 pick in this draft.


I never believed in Bill Laimbeer's "lead guard" approach, whether it was Cappie Pondexter or anyone else. I've always wanted exactly what you've described: a "true, pass-first" point guard with genuine leadership skills.

I never saw Brittany Boyd becoming that type of point guard. I hoped Lindsay Allen could, but so far it hasn't happened anywhere. I certainly hope New York can get Ionescu, but if not we need to get a veteran who can fit your description. No one currently on our roster can do so.


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PostPosted: 08/13/19 1:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think that approach (lead guard) is partially what’s left us in the position we are in. Winning without what amounts to a true PG is only possible within a framework of extreme defense and rebounding. That means both in talent and approach. The Liberty have neither the defensive talent nor the approach.

Katie Smith attempted radical change by utilizing Marissa Coleman in the manner she did last year. We have undersized wings this year. Neither team has been built for D. Yet Katie has said that they “hang their hat” on defense. That hat must not be attached to a sturdy hook.

Barring an unforeseen amount of success down the stretch, we are nearly guaranteed the opportunity to add a quality 2020 starter in the draft. That will leave 4/5 of the lineup at least with a quality starter. My expectation is that the organization will be creative enough to handle the other fifth with a quality starter as well.

Although I’d be ok with trading up a spot or two to get Ionescu if it comes down to that. When you add all her abilities and leadership together, you’re talking about building a core that can win multiple future championships. That’s my goal over anything to do with 2020.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 3:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Nice article on Johannes.

https://theathletic.com/1128658/?amp#click=https://t.co/SKoacOy8XT


Katie Smith says she wants Johannes to be more aggressive. Would probably be easier to do if she touched the ball more. Charmin Smith said the same about Durr. Smh.



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LibFan25



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 4:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
LibFan25 wrote:

I like K. Charles from Maryland, very athletic, has a nice jump shot, nice handle, I would like to see her improve the 3pt shot

Te'a Cooper is a interesting one for me, ima be watching her closely playing for the lady Bears this fall


Not to pick on you specifically because these are two players who get a lot of love on Rebkell, but it somewhat puzzles me. Does Kaila Charles need to improve her 3-pt shot or find one? She was 1-14 last year and 7-35 in her career. After people on this board killed Collier and Jackie Young for not shooting 3s, I'm surprised no one is complaining about it for Charles.

As far as Cooper goes, can we wait until she actually has a good year in college before we project her into the 1st Round? Cooper has somehow made it to grad student status while playing only 2 years. In her first season, Te'a shot 36.9%, had 23 more turnovers than assists, then got kicked off Tennessee's team for fighting with a teammate. Next, she moves to South Carolina and has an OK but not great season (note still more TOs than assists). The Gamecocks paid two years of tuition for that one season, but Cooper shows her gratitude by bolting for Baylor. So, history indicates that Cooper is a potential troublemaker, she's disloyal, and if you're a Liberty fan looking for a PG, Te'a averages only 2.1 apg while compiling more TOs than assists. This at the college level. I'm not seeing how she is an improvement over Boyd and Hartley. Yes, Cooper still has her whole senior season to improve, and Mulkey did a nice job turning Chloe Jackson into a decent college PG, but right now it's a big leap of faith to think Cooper is a solution to the point guard problems of any WNBA team.


I'm with you on that point, What's interesting about Kaila Charles, a 6'1 wing she lead team in scoring(17.9) that's 18 a game and rebounding with 8.1 per game.

That right there tells me she works hard, comparing Jackie, she's a better scorer but Jackie has a better overall game in my opinion, much better passer and defender.

If the Libs don't get in the Top 2 picks in 2020, I hope they seriously look into Charles for a SF

Cooper looks as if right now 2nd or 3rd round pick, I liked her game in South Carolina that's why I said ima be watching how she does with a hall of fame coach like Mulkey. She made Jackson who was a scorer into one of the best point guards last year, with Cooper speed and strength, it will be interesting to see how her game will improve


LibFan25



Joined: 01 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: 08/13/19 4:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Nice article on Johannes.

https://theathletic.com/1128658/?amp#click=https://t.co/SKoacOy8XT


Katie Smith says she wants Johannes to be more aggressive. Would probably be easier to do if she touched the ball more. Charmin Smith said the same about Durr. Smh.


Lol how can she be aggressive if you keep yanking her every time she makes a mistake? how bout yanking Wright when she makes those lazy passes to Charles in the post


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 4:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Katie Smith says she wants Johannes to be more aggressive. Would probably be easier to do if she touched the ball more. Charmin Smith said the same about Durr. Smh.


Smith's comment is just ridiculous.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/13/19 5:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LibFan25 wrote:

Cooper looks as if right now 2nd or 3rd round pick, I liked her game in South Carolina that's why I said ima be watching how she does with a hall of fame coach like Mulkey. She made Jackson who was a scorer into one of the best point guards last year, with Cooper speed and strength, it will be interesting to see how her game will improve


You keep begging Liberty management to sign Jaime Nared. Fighting with Nared is what got Cooper kicked out of Tennessee. I guess if the Libs move to Barclays, Nared and Cooper have the option of playing basketball or boxing. Laughing



_________________
Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
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