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root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/08/19 2:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I like Dangerfield as a college player, but she's 5-5 and would put even more pressure on your help defense. If Ionescu and Cox are gone, I'd still go with the best player available rather than need since this isn't a deep draft. I don't think Sabally comes out early since she recruited her sister to play at Oregon, and then her sister missed last season with an injury. They'd probably want more than one season together. The wildcard high-ceiling player to watch is Bella Alarie. She's 6-4/6-5, moves like a guard with the ball, and plays a good all-around game. The drawback is that she's really skinny and faces weak competition in the Ivy League. Nonetheless, if Alarie can put on 10 lbs of muscle and recapture the 3pt shooting ability she had as a freshman, then I believe she'll be a lottery pick. If Bella does only one of those two things, then mid-1st round is more likely. But if she does neither, then I can see her really sliding. What's interesting about Alarie is that you might be able to use her to some degree at all three frontcourt positions, depending on match-ups. At this point, the Delle Donne comparisons you see in the press are overblown. Alarie is probably more like an Azurá Stevens level prospect, assuming her senior year goes well.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/10/19 12:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I haven’t seen Alarie but I’ll see if I can find some video. I think any and all versatility is welcome. Sabally is a ridiculously talented player at her height. Cox would be our starting 5 spot player on opening night and Ionescu’s greatness speaks for itself. I’m not keen on waiting around for one more rebuilding season so should we fill the 5 spot with something, we gotta get a veteran PG. Danielle Robinson might well be available. We wouldn’t be asking for Hall of Fame caliber. Just a good passer with a solid basketball IQ. If we get a PG in the draft we need a veteran C and a new coach who corrects defensive mistakes. If DC can win with Latoya Sanders in the middle, then the Libs should be able to find a way to make it work. Or Stokes comes back and gives us that, whichever.

Respect Women’s Basketball on Facebook reporting no Durr or Zahui tmw also BTW.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/10/19 5:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:

Respect Women’s Basketball on Facebook reporting no Durr or Zahui tmw also BTW.


Jackie Powell of High Post Hoops is reporting the same thing -- concussion for Zahui and groin strain for Durr.



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PostPosted: 08/10/19 6:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:

Respect Women’s Basketball on Facebook reporting no Durr or Zahui tmw also BTW.


Jackie Powell of High Post Hoops is reporting the same thing -- concussion for Zahui and groin strain for Durr.


Terrible news both ways. But especially Zahui's concussion. I've been afraid about that from the moment where I saw the replay of her head hitting the floor. I hope she'll be OK.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/10/19 6:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As we know these days, concussions can have real-life consequences in an ongoing way. Hope she's ok as well.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/10/19 6:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Was there ever any report why Boyd didn't play Wednesday?



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toad455



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PostPosted: 08/10/19 6:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Interesting with Durr out as well. Does Hartley start at SG? She was the backup PG in their last game. Really hoping Han gets a few minutes for the fans.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/10/19 6:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'd think Hartley's status is tied to Boyd's availability. If Boyd doesn't play, I'd assume they'd hold Hartley to play the point.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 08/10/19 7:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Does Boyd have an injury or has she simply been benched? If an injury was announced, I missed that. Thanks for anyone for clarifying.


toad455



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PostPosted: 08/10/19 7:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Does Boyd have an injury or has she simply been benched? If an injury was announced, I missed that. Thanks for anyone for clarifying.


There was no report about her not playing on Wednesday, so it's to be assumed she's in the dog house. With only ten available for tomorrow, I would assume Boyd plays.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 08/10/19 7:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
Does Boyd have an injury or has she simply been benched? If an injury was announced, I missed that. Thanks for anyone for clarifying.


There was no report about her not playing on Wednesday, so it's to be assumed she's in the dog house. With only ten available for tomorrow, I would assume Boyd plays.


Is there no competent beat writer for the Liberty?



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PostPosted: 08/10/19 10:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
Does Boyd have an injury or has she simply been benched? If an injury was announced, I missed that. Thanks for anyone for clarifying.


There was no report about her not playing on Wednesday, so it's to be assumed she's in the dog house. With only ten available for tomorrow, I would assume Boyd plays.


Thanks for this information. I hadn't read or heard of any injury to Boyd, so I assumed she had simply been benched.

With Durr out and Johannes's minutes limited since she has these terrible games where she makes ALL of her field goal attempts, I guess we'll see Boyd out on the court. Smile


toad455



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PostPosted: 08/11/19 7:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
Does Boyd have an injury or has she simply been benched? If an injury was announced, I missed that. Thanks for anyone for clarifying.


There was no report about her not playing on Wednesday, so it's to be assumed she's in the dog house. With only ten available for tomorrow, I would assume Boyd plays.


Is there no competent beat writer for the Liberty?


Geoff Magliochetti is probably the best source for Liberty info. But when the Liberty are on the road, any info is usually lacking. He'll probably have info later today.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 08/11/19 6:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So today at the Barclay Center I got the answer... perhaps... to a question that we've discussed here.

Some people speculated that it might take time for Marine Johannes to learn the Liberty's offense (if indeed there is one--but that's a different question!) because of language difficulties. Which led me and others to wonder: does Johannes speak English. And, if so, how well? No one knew the answer.

Late in the first quarter against Seattle, I saw Johannes alone under the basket with a Seattle player. (Sorry, I didn't catch who it was.) Johannes lost the Seattle player for a second, the ball got to her, Rebecca Allen had to come over, and she committed a foul.

As soon as the foul was called, Allen went over to Johannes and started talking to her. Allen did not look angry, but obviously wanted to talk to Johannes about what had just happened. Of course I couldn't hear their words. But, from looking at them, I'd say only these conclusions are possible:

1. Johannes speaks English reasonably well.
2. Allen speaks French reasonably well.
3. Both of the above.

I'm guessing the correct answer is #1. But if anyone can find out, that information would be welcome.


Lib Fan



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PostPosted: 08/11/19 6:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob what is the point you are making ?

Yes Bec Allen speaks English
Yes Im sure Bec speaks some French since she played in Lyon in the off season
Yes if Marine speaks English they spoke

Are we back to the "Who speaks French thread ?"



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 9:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One thing about Johannes’ situation that annoyed me irrespective of the language question is how she was used yesterday. She had that one handed 3 at the end of the shot clock. Not a great moment, but after that she was pulled right away. Comes in in the fourth quarter, Loyd backdoors her for a layup, yanked again.

In the first 14 minutes of the second half, we had 14 points. Knowing that Johannes can score in bunches...

I don’t think yanking a young player after every mistake is likely to help her future performance either.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 10:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Liberty could definitely use a bigger SF. Nurse's defense and rebouding are subpar for a SF. Playing against bigger/stronger wings has physically taken a toll, she's not playing with the same energy. Nurse would be better suited playing SG. She's listed at 6'0 but is closer to 5'11. She also doesn't have a long wingspan to make up for the lack of height/weight.

Some people may think there isn't much of a size/weight difference between the two wings positions, but there really is.

Shooting guards:
Quigley- 5'10/140
C.Williams- 5'8/136
Loyd- 5'9/148
Cloud- 6'0/160
January- 5'8/144
Young- 6'0/165
Plum- 5'8/145
Hayes- 5'10/155
Gray- 5'10/167
Beard- 5'11/160
T.Mitchell- 5'9/152
Augustus- 6'0/172


Small forwards:
DeShields- 6'0/163
Stricklen- 6'1/178 lb
Clark- 5'11/167
Atkins- 6'1/173....Atkins is listed at 5'8 on WNBA.com Rolling Eyes
McCoughtry- 6'0/173
Moore- 6'0/175
Bonner- 6'4/143
TRP- 6'0/180
McBride- 5'11/174
Vivians- 6'0/183
Thornton- 6'1/190
Nurse- 6'0/168...I believe Nurse is closer to 5'11

There's literally a 2 inch/20-30 pound difference between sg's and sf's

Most SF's are not only taller/longer than Nurse, but also well built.....I understand over the course of a game there's going to be lots of switching between sf/sg. But what are the Liberty switching?...Durr is only 5'9. So if she switches on the opposing SF, that's a disadvantage for the Liberty.

The Liberty have 4 options IMO.

1. Start Allen
2. Sign (Copper)
3. Trade (McCoughtry)
4. Get a defensive/rebounding center (Stokes?)

The only way the Liberty can get away with playing Nurse at SF and become a legit contender is if they improve the defense at the center position.




Last edited by zune69 on 08/12/19 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total
NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 11:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The SF's who've really posted Nurse up this year are TRP and Clark. A few others use their strength as a mismatch. While I also view Nurse as not a true SF, I also think her body is projectible. I see her as having the body type to add ten pounds of muscle in the future. But, this is one of the reasons I advocated for Collier, figuring that having Nurse at the 2 spot and Collier at the 3 spot would really be a strong combo defensively. A defensive C would help, but even with that, I think you have to double team against certain matchups no matter what, something the Liberty rarely do.

They also never trap screen and roll and seem to always switch on screens where Tina is the defender. Whitcomb hit several 3s yesterday while being guarded by Tina. OTOH, Russell slipped screens a few times or just rolled to the basket and was wide open. Teams know what we are going to do defensively and capitalize without fear of retribution/adjustment. Seattle, OTOH, trapped us pretty hard. With success.

I think having Nurse at SF long-term will be ok even if this year it results in some negative matchups defensively. This year in terms of wins and losses has become a lost cause in my eyes anyway. So now it's about how we build for 2020. If the Liberty are fortunate enough to get Ionescu, you're talking about a team that should be an upper-echelon offensive team. The question will then become, can they defend to be better than .500? Ionescu, Durr, Nurse and Tina would be an elite amount of offensive talent. With that group, you better be able to figure out a way to defend.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 1:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pre-Draft, we had a group picture of UConn grads standing side-by-side at a USA-Canada game. Nurse was clearly taller than Taurasi, and maybe even slightly taller than Moore. Height isn't Kia's problem -- it's strength. While, I'm not in love with Nurse at SF, it's also not NY's main problem on defense. As NYL_WNBA_FAN points out, there is too much unnecessary switching in their defensive scheme. Also, Bec Allen has commented that the team suffers from "over-helping". I've posted that same observation, which I believe is due to the lack of rim protection from the post players. Defending drives is a big problem for the Liberty. Just as bad as the easy baskets and constant fouling is their tendency to overcompensate. It's causing too many players to converge on the ballhandler, thereby leaving shooters wide open on the perimeter. NY needs to plug that hole in the middle. That's why I wanted to draft McCowan: to provide rim protection as well as better rebounding. Getting Stokes back next year will help in that regard, but you'll end up paying on the offensive end.

I don't have any grand trade proposals that will magically transform the Liberty. I'll leave that to others who love that kind of stuff. However, I do see a couple of minor moves that might help in the short run. New York needs height that they're willing to use, as opposed to a Han-like project. I know McGee-Stafford hasn't been great, but she might be a useful situational player off the bench. Based on her 11.5 mpg, I don't think Agler will fight too hard to keep her. IMS is probably a gettable RFA.

After that, in terms of a realistically obtainable PG who is known for ball security, I'd check on Lindsay Allen to see if she is fully healthy. If she's OK, Allen could be at least a short-term bandaid if not more. I think Laimbeer is committed to Plum and Young, and Colson gives LVA some veteran leadership. I think we can get Allen for a 2021 2nd Round pick, or if you're really greedy, wait to see if she gets cut. Personally, I think it's smarter to give up a pick and get the player into camp. I'd keep the 2020 2nd Round pick from Atlanta, which right now looks like #13 overall. With Han, Johannes, and Nayo likely to miss next season, that pick has a decent chance of making the roster.



_________________
Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 13063



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 1:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I like Lindsay Allen too, and thinking back to 2017, she was an underrated part of our success and a 2018 missing piece whose absence you could argue really hurt the Libs. This would lead me to a question in regard to 2020. It seems as though in an ideal world Katie Smith's preferred style of offense would spread the floor at multiple positions, which may be a reason why Lindsay Allen was allowed to walk in the first place.

When you look at the Libs' defensive schemes (general lack of aggression, lack of double teams, consistent switching by Tina), they seem more geared to preserving Tina's freshness than they are geared to short-term winning. It really makes me wonder if Katie also has assurances regarding 2020 already. The PG position, clearly a priority no matter who coaches next year, is going to have an extra layer of interest attached to it if Katie Smith is still the head coach.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 1:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Forgot about Lindsay Allen. If we get Ionescu, we can sign her and dump Boyd.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 1:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

For what it's worth...Not that it means anything...I just think Nurse is smaller than listed.









zune69



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 2:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If she's healthy, I think NY should make a play for McCoughtry....If NY lands Ionescu, this would be my trade offer to Atlanta:


Durr, Boyd, 2021 1st & 2nd rd pk for McCoughtry.


G-Ionescu
G-Nurse
C-Stokes
F-Charles
F-McCoughtry
6-Johannes
7-Allen
8-Zahui B
9- Colson or L.Allen
10- K.Thomas or Ndour or Alexander

This squad would be a legit title contender.

NY could also make contract offers to Hawkins and Copper.


toad455



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 2:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Is McCoughtry a UFA? No need to trade then. I'd be open to trade Boyd & Stokes for a post. Maybe for Kalani Brown? Izzy Harrison? I also believe Han Xu sits out next season.

PG: Ionescu/L. Allen
SG: Nurse/Durr/Johannes
SF: McCoughtry/R. Allen
PF: Charles/Gray/Raincock-Ekunwe
C: Zahui B/Brown or Harrison



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/12/19 3:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Angel is a speed and penetration player coming off an ACL. More than half her success has involved getting free throw attempts. Returning to that form at that age with that injury is dicey.



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