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toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 07/08/19 11:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

przemoe wrote:
Anyone knows why Bec is not playing?


Hand injury she suffered during a game a few weeks ago.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 11:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
I find it a little crazymaking thinking about Brittany Boyd.

Over four previous seasons with the Liberty, at times she showed great promise. Many of us wondered what it would be like if she could stay healthy and settle into being our starting point guard. Of course there were questions and not just about her shooting.

Now, for almost half a season, she's been healthy and has been the starting point guard. She's played 24.5 minutes per game and is second in the WNBA with 5.9 assists per game. That's a great stat! And yet...

And yet her outside shooting, while perhaps slightly better, is still subpar.

And yet we still can't trust Boyd to make an open layup.

But, most important to me, despite her impressive 5.9 assists per game, despite the fact that she's made many beautiful passes, Boyd has questionable judgment. A point guard has to make the right decisions. Boyd too often doesn't.

Going forward, this team will need a solid starting point guard. I don't know if Johannes can succeed in that role; I hope so. I know it isn't Boyd and I know it isn't Hartley.


6 turnovers for Boyd yesterday. Many, if not all, unforced. Many, if not all, because defenses dare her to shoot knowing she won’t. Boyd is at about 3 turnovers per game. Roughly one every 8 minutes. Becky Hammon used to average about one turnover every 8 minutes but she could also score, space the court and draw additional defensive coverage to her instead of it going away from her. If Boyd were averaging 18 ppg you could live with the turnovers. To have that turnover rate going hand in hand with defenses leaving her wide open so much is unfathomable. Her 3 and FT %’s are both decent. She pulled up and nailed a 15-footer yesterday the one time she took it. I’d much rather some missed shots mixed with a few makes instead of forcing things. Even her drives are difficult because of the angles defenses force her to shoot from. When she’s setting tempo she’s at times spectacular. When she isn’t she’s often awful. She’s still ideally a change-of-pace sub, and that’s her ceiling unless she decides to shoot the ball every now and then. So frustrating.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 12:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
6 turnovers for Boyd yesterday. Many, if not all, unforced. Many, if not all, because defenses dare her to shoot knowing she won’t. Boyd is at about 3 turnovers per game. Roughly one every 8 minutes. Becky Hammon used to average about one turnover every 8 minutes but she could also score, space the court and draw additional defensive coverage to her instead of it going away from her. If Boyd were averaging 18 ppg you could live with the turnovers. To have that turnover rate going hand in hand with defenses leaving her wide open so much is unfathomable. Her 3 and FT %’s are both decent. She pulled up and nailed a 15-footer yesterday. I’d much rather some missed mixed with a few makes in exchange of forcing things. Even her drives are difficult because of the angles defenses force her to shoot from. When she’s setting tempo she’s at times spectacular. When she isn’t she’s often awful. She’s still ideally a change-of-pace sub, and that’s her ceiling unless she decides to shoot the ball every now and then.


"Ideally a change-of-pace sub" is exactly right.

But even if she were to take more outside shots and make a decent number, I'm still not convinced that she has good enough judgment to be a starting point guard who plays crucial minutes.


pilight



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 12:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Warley-Talbert waived

Stokes is sitting the season out



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 12:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

On Facebook, the Liberty has posted Welcome Back notices for Bria Hartley and Amanda Zahui B and a Welcome for Marine Johannes. This doesn't mean they're actually in New York, as Zahui B seemingly isn't, stuck in Serbia for the moment.

Terrible news that Kiah Stokes is sitting out the season. I hope someone will explain why.


toad455



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 12:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stokes sitting out is likely fatigue. But it helps the Liberty in having to waive either Raincock or Han.

https://twitter.com/DishNSwish/status/1148277401371197441?s=19

PG: Boyd/Hartley
SG: Durr/Johannes/Wright
SF: Nurse/Allen
PF: Charles/Gray/Raincock
C: Zahui B/Han Xu



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 12:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://twitter.com/elindsay08/status/1148276698754015234?s=09



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 1:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Stokes sitting out is likely fatigue. But it helps the Liberty in having to waive either Raincock or Han.

https://twitter.com/DishNSwish/status/1148277401371197441?s=19

PG: Boyd/Hartley
SG: Durr/Johannes/Wright
SF: Nurse/Allen
PF: Charles/Gray/Raincock
C: Zahui B/Han Xu


I wish Stokes well and respect any player's decision to sit out for whatever personal reasons. But for the rest of the 2019 season I'd much rather have Stokes than Raincock-Ekunwe or Han. Stokes would be our best interior defender. I view this as very bad news. Tempered only by the fact that Zahui and Gray have been playing so well.


bluedevilaztecfan5



Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 128
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PostPosted: 07/08/19 1:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Excited to see how the team gels together! I agree with Boyd being a spark off the bench. Also hoping Johannès can be a lead guard, I would love to see her alongside Durr and Nurse, with Charles and Zahui that’s all positions with 3pt ability.

Boyd 5’9/Hartley 5’8
Durr 5’10/Wright 5’11/Johannès 5’10
Nurse 6’0/Allen 6’2
Charles 6’4/Gray 6’2/Raincock-Ekunwe 6’2
Zahui B 6’5/Xu 6’9

https://liberty.wnba.com/news/liberty-make-changes-to-roster/

Sad Stokes is sitting out for ‘personal reasons’. Really coulda used her defense.
On Instagram she just posted “I’ll be back next summer don’t worry” but did not specify why she is sitting this season out.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 1:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Having not seen Stokes tweet anything Liberty-related, I had this in the back of my mind but I was really hopeful to have her. I’ll never begrudge a player choosing to sit out for rest or whatever other reason so I too wish her the best.

For the 2019 Liberty, this alters the equation considerably from my view. I thought they had potential to be a late-season force with Stokes being a part of that from a defensive standpoint. Now, my best hope is that Han is better integrated into the team later in the season. Watching yesterday live, it appears to me she struggles to know where to position herself in different plays. Which is understandable given the language constraint. She showed some signs of life defensively though. But either way, I view the Libs much more as a win-here lose-there type of team for the rest of this season. That said, I view the 2020 Liberty as having the upside to be a potential force just from within. I see Johannes as the 2020 PG unless that position is upgraded in the draft or free agency. C has plenty of upside with Zahui’s continued improvement as well as Han. Kiah is a free agent according to Megdal’s database (does she lose the year by sitting out?) so we will see if she comes back.

For 2019, we get to view the youth of Durr, Nurse and Johannes. That’s potentially true of Han as well later in the summer. Older but somewhat inexperienced players like Zahui and Gray have shown signs of upward mobility as well. Cap-wise the Libs are in excellent position to add players if any want to come. Which might be the case if the move to BK comes to fruition.

2019 now looks very up and down. But it’s still not a bad time to be a Liberty fan moving forward. They’ve upgraded several parts of the team with youth as compared to last year. They compete in a professional, intangible way a vast majority of the time, which is how winners carry themselves. There’s a lot of reasons to watch just based on that alone.



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NYSports56



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 1:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
On Facebook, the Liberty has posted Welcome Back notices for Bria Hartley and Amanda Zahui B and a Welcome for Marine Johannes. This doesn't mean they're actually in New York, as Zahui B seemingly isn't, stuck in Serbia for the moment.

Terrible news that Kiah Stokes is sitting out the season. I hope someone will explain why.


NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am heartbroken. She's my favorite player, and with this, her future with the Liberty seems very doubtful.

They must have known this all along, and that's why she didn't play at the start of the season.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 1:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYSports56 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
On Facebook, the Liberty has posted Welcome Back notices for Bria Hartley and Amanda Zahui B and a Welcome for Marine Johannes. This doesn't mean they're actually in New York, as Zahui B seemingly isn't, stuck in Serbia for the moment.

Terrible news that Kiah Stokes is sitting out the season. I hope someone will explain why.


NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am heartbroken. She's my favorite player, and with this, her future with the Liberty seems very doubtful.

They must have known this all along, and that's why she didn't play at the start of the season.


You have a PM.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 2:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One blessing in disguise is that it helps the minutes distribution and gives Zahui likely starters minutes. And it opens a door for Han to potentially play more meaningful minutes as the season goes on.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 4:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't think Stokes can be assed, to be honest. It's not like she really needs the rest. She was a part-time player with her club team during the European season, then had a couple of months preparing before playing all of three games in Serbia. But it does mean she gets a break, and on a monetary basis this is probably the time to take it.

If there's an actual personal reason then I apologise, but I think the most likely story is that she just doesn't really want to.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 4:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This also makes me wonder if Stokes wants out of the Liberty. I'm fine if she is as she's mostly a defensive stopper and rebounder which we have with Gray now. To me it's no big loss and we keep both Han and Raincock. I believe Stokes contract is up anyways, so we can let her walk next season if she wants to go elsewhere.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 5:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
One blessing in disguise is that it helps the minutes distribution and gives Zahui likely starters minutes. And it opens a door for Han to potentially play more meaningful minutes as the season goes on.


Plus the advantage, as I already pointed out, of not having to cut Raincock-Ekunwe, who should add to Johannes’ comfort level. With two teammates of Johannes on the Liberty, there could be some instant chemistry they wouldn’t have had otherwise.

In fact, it works out so well that I wonder if the team coaxed or encouraged Stokes to take the rest of the year off. 🤔



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Shades



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 5:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Kiah is a free agent according to Megdal’s database (does she lose the year by sitting out?) so we will see if she comes back.


Under current CBA guidelines, she still needs to put in two more years of actual play to reach unrestricted free agency. This year doesn’t count towards anything since she’s no longer under rookie contract guidelines.



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Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 6:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
One blessing in disguise is that it helps the minutes distribution and gives Zahui likely starters minutes. And it opens a door for Han to potentially play more meaningful minutes as the season goes on.


Plus the advantage, as I already pointed out, of not having to cut Raincock-Ekunwe, who should add to Johannes’ comfort level. With two teammates of Johannes on the Liberty, there could be some instant chemistry they wouldn’t have had otherwise.

In fact, it works out so well that I wonder if the team coaxed or encouraged Stokes to take the rest of the year off. 🤔


Was thinking same thing



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 7:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
I don't think Stokes can be assed, to be honest. It's not like she really needs the rest. She was a part-time player with her club team during the European season, then had a couple of months preparing before playing all of three games in Serbia. But it does mean she gets a break, and on a monetary basis this is probably the time to take it.

If there's an actual personal reason then I apologise, but I think the most likely story is that she just doesn't really want to.


without seeing her ass, we may not be able to tell if she is assed or not... Wink



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 7:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I can see some relevance in that but how do we know they even like each other? If they do, that’s a plus, but I don’t see it as that big a deal. That would be like saying the Liberty should have taken Collier because she was Nurse’s teammate. Durr is doing fine. Johannes would too even if Nayo was the odd person out. The Liberty have generally good chemistry already. Once Durr, Nurse and Tina receive passes from a guard that actually enables easier shots they’ll probably love her. Maybe they’ll even learn some French phrases. Possibly sentences even. Like for instance “Wow, great pass. We haven’t had a guard do that on this team in years. Thank God you’re finally here.”

Does Nayo speak French?



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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 7:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If these excessively optimistic Lib fans here don't want to take their foot off the gas then I'm glad that Kiah is doing it for them. A few recent wins against some bad opponents doesn't mean the team is suddenly a contender.
Building chemistry and hope after bottoming-out last year, while keeping further scope for improvement in 2020, is ideal IMO.
Work on getting Johannes an effective role, get Xu some more minutes where you can, and have a focussed drafting/recruiting plan going into next year. You are long overdue some success so do it properly.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 8:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don’t think they’re a contender yet. I just look at talent. And what they’re missing. Johannes is a legit WNBA player who provides two things the Liberty desperately need more of. Playmaking and shooting. Next year Nurse, Durr and Tina will be a legit big 3 that can probably compete talent-wise and production-wise with that of most teams. They aren’t there yet because Nurse and Durr need to improve their playmaking and passing. The other thing they need is defense near the rim. Gray does not provide good help defense nor does she bring length. Zahui is somewhat better but erratic. Next year with Stokes, a hopefully improved Han and an improved Zahui, there’s a good chance that’s covered. Plus they lose Hartley’s cap number which leaves a potential FA or vet who demands a trade to play in Barclays Center as well.

I did think they could win 19-20 games this year with Kiah’s defensive presence and rebounding though. I don’t think that anymore. .500 is probably attainable being the talent around the league is much worse than normal and the schedule the rest of the way is quite favorable. Our games against LV are done. Two pacific games the rest of the year. Extra road games coming pretty much against all the teams we match up well to and the extra home games against teams that we match up more poorly to. We are 7-8. I’d have us at 4-11 in a regular year, maybe worse. I don’t think the Liberty as constructed in 2019 are a particularly good team. I just think this year’s WNBA is very substandard compared to the standard it usually sets.

People forget how much of a difference maker Kiah was when she was healthy and in shape compared to hurt or not in shape. The Libs started 19-8 in 2016 with Kiah and finished 3-6 including playoffs. They gave up 100 points twice in those last 9 games.

At minimum, Atlanta, Dallas, Indy and Chicago all realistically appear worse than NY. Finishing 8th does very little for me especially with the dumb playoff setup. They could finish a touch higher and that’s whatever too. But if we’re not getting Ionescu, Sabally or maybe Cox I see more potential for improvement from within or in free agency than I do in the draft anyway. So the few extra draft positions don’t mean that much to me either if it’s a difference between 5, 6 or 7.



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mavcarter



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 9:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
At minimum, Atlanta, Dallas, Indy and Chicago all realistically appear worse than NY.


Now I’m looking forward to the next time the Sky play the Liberty. Twisted Evil



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 9:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
At minimum, Atlanta, Dallas, Indy and Chicago all realistically appear worse than NY.


Now I’m looking forward to the next time the Sky play the Liberty. Twisted Evil


You will get your wish on Friday. Wink



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NYSports56



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PostPosted: 07/08/19 9:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
At minimum, Atlanta, Dallas, Indy and Chicago all realistically appear worse than NY.


Now I’m looking forward to the next time the Sky play the Liberty. Twisted Evil

Great, now James Wade can plaster NYL_WNBA_FAN's post all over their bulletin board. See what you've done, NYL?

Seriously, until I see the returning players taking the team to the next level, I don't think we're any better than the Sky. I can't begin to describe how good the wins felt, but as Luuuc pointed out, the teams we beat aren't that great. None of the teams we defeated in the 4 game winning streak have a winning record, and 2 of the games were against the worst teams in the league

I think Indiana's better than both the Liberty and the Sky right now. They've got a great front line, and Erica Wheeler is a good point guard who could be an All-Star if she gets her turnovers down.


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