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root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/02/18 4:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shooting guard is the easiest position to fill in this league. If people really want Durr, you should trade down for her. You wouldn't take her at #2 unless she had Augustus-like accuracy or Taurasi-type clutch ability. Those two are also big guards. Durr is listed at 5-10 but watching the ND games she looked noticeably shorter when standing next to 5-11 Mabrey.



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PostPosted: 09/02/18 6:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I am going to try and keep an open mind about this draft.

What I don't like about #2 is if the bigs go 1 and 2 then our choice is made by who LV takes and in theory we get the weaker one. So even if one of the bigs proves to be a close to sure bet we won't be getting that one. There are more question marks about the top players then we are used to. There will even be months of debate over who should go #1. If there are still question marks about both bigs I would rather take a player I feel confident will be a good scorer if nothing else I think both Durr and KlS and Ogunbowale will be effective on the offensive end.

One of the reasons I was ok with the 4th pick was I was going to like who we drafted and not have to worry about whiffing on the star at the next level who we might now miss if we go with the 2nd best big instead of the 2nd best player.

Hopefully Brown and McCowan kill it this season and are clearly the two best in the draft.

Because I don't want to be losing games to chicago with Durr and Deshields killing our guards or Indy with KlS and the Mitchell's lighting us up.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 09/02/18 7:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Shooting guard is the easiest position to fill in this league. If people really want Durr, you should trade down for her. You wouldn't take her at #2 unless she had Augustus-like accuracy or Taurasi-type clutch ability. Those two are also big guards. Durr is listed at 5-10 but watching the ND games she looked noticeably shorter when standing next to 5-11 Mabrey.


1,000% agree. I get why people want her, but you're not talking a Cappie or Taurasi impact here. If the thought is eventually she might be a 15 ppg player and she's not really a standout in other areas then I'm not seeing the impact you can get elsewhere. Especially in a draft where you can have whatever you choose in terms of style of player.

And...I think highly of J-Spoon's opinion. Totally get where he/she is coming from in terms of wanting a reliable scorer after watching the Libs brick shots all season. And this is definitely a unique draft in that there's no obvious top pick but a lot of very good players. That depth is why I am particularly eager to get some type of matchup advantage at a position as well as versatility. The thing I think Durr specifically doesn't give you is a major physical matchup advantage. She's listed at 5'10" and honestly even if she is a legit 5'10" she plays like a medium-sized shooting guard. The not being great at creating contact is another concern. She's ok at getting to the line, but her game is at its best when pulling up.

That's why I'd prefer KLS or even Collier. Durr is possibly a more dynamic 1-on-1 offensive player but there's no doubt the other two give more versatility. Although if we get anything other than a post player out of that pick I'm going to lose my mind.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/02/18 8:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

OK here's a fun hypothetical

What if Ionescu comes out? Do you offer Charles for the #1 pick? Is Ionescu the next once in a generation guard?

(I love Charles this is not meant as offense to her, but in another thread a Jefferson and #1 for Fowles trade was suggested and I though I could see that offer for Charles if Ionescu didn't enter so if she did would straight up or with the Jefferson throw in be considered. I also have to admit when this trade crossed my mind it was when some were suggesting if we stay in WC Tina might want out and we might need a full scale rebuild and starting with the #1 and #2 pick in a draft isn't a bad place to start. Wilson and Charles as a modern position-less from-court with Tina's game working in both the high post and out to the perimeter and Wilson on the block, with Plum, McBride and for now Young would be an intriguing combination).


root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/02/18 8:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If I didn't go big, I would personally prefer KLS. She is unique in her shooting ability at that height. I know some people say she's a bad defender. I don't agree. Defense is more than just staying in front of your man. It includes help defense, being in the right place, knowing when to switch, boxing out after the shot, etc. I would also point out that people have been saying for years that Taurasi, Bird, Dupree, and Parker are bad defenders. That's enough bad defense to make three of them sure hall-of-famers and the fourth a strong candidate. They've also got some rings.

As I've been re-watching games lately, it appears that Brown and McCowan are different enough so that I'm not sure who is "better." Both have obvious strengths and weaknesses. Brown is clearly more skilled offensively in just about every way imaginable. On defense, Kalani is more of a question mark. I found the Oregon State game to be rather telling. First off, why does Kim Mulkey send 6-4 Cox out there for the opening tip rather than 6-7 Brown? Is Cox a great leaper or is Brown a below average jumper? Then halfway through the game, Mulkey grew frustrated with Brown's defense and she switched to Cox guarding Gulich. Later, trailing in the 4th Qtr, the coach went offense-defense by swapping out Brown but leaving Cox on the court. At one point, with Baylor trailing by 3 and only 57 seconds left in the game, she continued the swap even after Cox had fouled out. It was rather shocking that with her season in jeopardy of ending, Mulkey pulled her supposed star player. For anyone scouting, that's not exactly a vote of confidence from the coach.

As for McCowan, she is a monster rebounder and appears to be a somewhat better shot-blocker than Brown. I'm not totally sure if it's actually better or if Teaira is just more active. Brown can back-off because she has Big 12 DPOY Cox helping her out. What we can say is that McCowan probably has more room to grow, which is an important consideration. Teaira is the choice for anyone who prefers defense, so my guess is that Laimbeer would choose her. Obviously, players can improve their game between now and draft day, rendering our current assumptions moot.



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LibFan25



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PostPosted: 09/24/18 6:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Our wonderful Coach is in town to watch the "Games" I call it



I would love to see Nayo back in a Liberty Uniform


Shades



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PostPosted: 09/24/18 6:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LibFan25 wrote:


I would love to see Nayo back in a Liberty Uniform


Since she’s in the picture, I suspect she’ll be back in the Liberty picture.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 09/24/18 6:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
LibFan25 wrote:


I would love to see Nayo back in a Liberty Uniform


Since she’s in the picture, I suspect she’ll be back in the Liberty picture.


I hope so.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 09/26/18 5:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sK2tihvxk1U" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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Ay Mate



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PostPosted: 09/26/18 6:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If both KLS and or Collier don’t go somewhere in the first 4 picks, those GM’s should be fired. You ain’t gonna win championship’s without Uconn players on your roster.


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PostPosted: 09/26/18 6:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
If both KLS and or Collier don’t go somewhere in the first 4 picks, those GM’s should be fired. You ain’t gonna win championship’s without Uconn players on your roster.

I'm sure Kelly Faris will be available if that's a requirement.



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PostPosted: 09/26/18 6:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Aces, Sky and Liberty already meet that "mandatory" requirement. Pokey could pick up Chong on the cheap though and save her job.


toad455



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PostPosted: 09/26/18 8:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
If both KLS and or Collier don’t go somewhere in the first 4 picks, those GM’s should be fired. You ain’t gonna win championship’s without Uconn players on your roster.


To me, there's 6 players that could be deemed lottery picks. Two will miss out. My 6 are: McCowan, Brown, Durr, Samuelson, Collier & Ogunbowale. Let's see what all six do their senior year.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/26/18 9:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
If both KLS and or Collier don’t go somewhere in the first 4 picks, those GM’s should be fired. You ain’t gonna win championship’s without Uconn players on your roster.


To me, there's 6 players that could be deemed lottery picks. Two will miss out. My 6 are: McCowan, Brown, Durr, Samuelson, Collier & Ogunbowale. Let's see what all six do their senior year.


And that is before the much hinted at Ionescu declaration.

And before her injury Turner was 1a to Wilson's 1, so almost two years removed from her injury, with plenty of time when all she could do was work on her strength and shooting, and a coming year of high exposure on the top team I could see her climb into the conversation. If she is rebounding and shooting well Chicago at 4 doesn't seem too unrealistic.


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PostPosted: 09/28/18 3:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So let's say just for a fun hypothetical that NY doesn't go big with the #2 (feel free to solve this decision however you like maybe Ionescu declares and falls to #2 as Laimbeer goes with a big at #1 which is my latest save the Liberty fantasy, or KLS or Durr have insanely great seasons and NY simply believes they are the best available, what ever floats your boat) and instead goes big at #14

for those watching the Worlds how would you feel about NY swinging for the fences and drafting Han Xu or Li Yueru? (Probably doesn't fit with the Charles window but Ionescu and Han Xu could be great building blocks for the future, ok I am grasping at straws a little bit just trying to stir things up).

Also what other bigs would be possible at 14 and how would you rate them I am thinking (if Anigwe and Sheppard are gone) maybe Gustafason or Jennings?

would Durr/Jennings or KLS/Gustafason be better than say Brown/Mabrey or McCowan/Moore?


toad455



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PostPosted: 09/28/18 7:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've been thinking the same thing. I prefer Durr over KLS. Anigwe may be available at #14.

PG: Boyd/L. Allen(off waivers)
SG: Durr/Rodgers/Hartley
SF: Nurse/free agent
PF: Charles/Raincock-Ekunwe
C: Zahui B./Anigwe/Stokes



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Shades



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PostPosted: 09/28/18 11:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Boyd/Hartley
Nurse/Rodgers/BPA at #16 or #18
BAllen/Zellous
Charles/Raincock-Ekunwe/BPA at #14
Stokes/Brown(#2)

Only 3 signed for 2019.

Since Charles wasn’t signed to an extension, I’ll say she gets cored.
If the Liberty are lucky, they’ll get Raincock back.
It’s hard to predict stability for this roster with Boyd and Zahui both looking for raises, and Rodgers, Prince, Zellous, Coleman, and Vaughn all looking for their vet salaries.
I’ll go with letting Vaughn walk, and Prince walking unless she is willing to work for dirt cheap, like what Coleman supposedly worked for last season.
I’ll go with trading Zahui for #16 or #18, and that will become your rookie guard addition.
#14 will be best available at PF (or guard if preferred. I know Spooner has had an eye on Mabrey. Perfect way to waste a pick)



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/28/18 12:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Again, someone please explain to me why Anigwe is going to fall out of the 1st Round when she was arguably the best player in her class for the first two years. There's no lack of athleticism or height, and Anigwe's statistical drop-off as a junior is no worse than that of Collier. If somehow Anigwe is available at #14, we should grab her and then do cartwheels.

I'm not convinced Li Yueru is 6-7. On TV, she looks noticeably shorter than both Cambage and Han Xu. I'm not sure she's even taller than Alex Bunton (6-5). Neither Chinese center appears anywhere near WNBA-ready to me. However, Han seems more active and she has all that length going for her with decent mobility. If you want to roll the dice on Han with #14, that's fine. However, I doubt she'll contribute much in her 1st year.

Just to put size in perspective, USA Basketball lists Griner at 6-9 205, K. Brown at 6-7 245, and McCowan at 6-7 238. Han Xu looked taller than Cambage, so she's probably a legitimat 6-9. However, she had a fraction of the girth. Han is thinner than Griner with less muscle definition, so I'm guessing maybe 180 lbs?



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PostPosted: 09/28/18 12:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:


Just to put size in perspective, USA Basketball lists Griner at 6-9 205, K. Brown at 6-7 245, and McCowan at 6-7 238. Han Xu looked taller than Cambage, so she's probably a legitimat 6-9. However, she had a fraction of the girth. Han is thinner than Griner with less muscle definition, so I'm guessing maybe 180 lbs?


So she has the build of Olive Oyl - give her some spinach.


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PostPosted: 09/28/18 12:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Both Han Xu and Li Yueru need to build some muscle to complete in the WNBA. Cambage, Griner, Williams, and even Zahui B, Dolson and Paris will out muscle them inside.



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PostPosted: 09/28/18 12:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
If you want to roll the dice on Han with #14, that's fine. However, I doubt she'll contribute much in her 1st year.


The Chinese version of Hamson.

Vadeeva was a much better prospect and she barely contributed her rookie year.

It’s good that Xu is apparently enthusiastic about trying out for the WNBA, but enthusiasm only gets you so far, as Park as shown.

I think once World Cup is over, people will quickly forget about her and return the focus on college players.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 09/28/18 12:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Han Xu should only be a late second round pick. Someone willing to make her their project. Vadeeva was late and actually saw her playing time increase throughout the season. Sometimes getting more minutes than Lavender. Let's see what Vadeeva does next season. Ji Su Park showed promise, and according to Laimbeer, has a very high basketball IQ.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 09/28/18 1:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:

I'm not convinced Li Yueru is 6-7. On TV, she looks noticeably shorter than both Cambage and Han Xu. I'm not sure she's even taller than Alex Bunton (6-5). Neither Chinese center appears anywhere near WNBA-ready to me. However, Han seems more active and she has all that length going for her with decent mobility. If you want to roll the dice on Han with #14, that's fine. However, I doubt she'll contribute much in her 1st year.

I'd want Han's rights, but I'd be more than happy for her to take a couple of years to show up.

One problem with some of those height comparisons is that Liz is freaking ginormous and probably under-listed, unlike most basketball players.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/28/18 1:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:

I'd want Han's rights, but I'd be more than happy for her to take a couple of years to show up.

One problem with some of those height comparisons is that Liz is freaking ginormous and probably under-listed, unlike most basketball players.


I agree. Han is intriguing but she would really benefit from playing overseas a couple of years to let both her game and body develop.

I think Cambage's height is probably correct. Where she's woefully underreported is in the weight department. WNBA.com has her listed at 216 lbs. If USA Basketball is correct about Brown being 245 and McCowan at 238, then I'm guessing Cambage has to be at least 250 lbs.



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PostPosted: 09/29/18 12:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There is 250Lbs of slo-mo and 250Lbs of Cambage go-mo 2 quite different things Laughing


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/29/18 3:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
I've been thinking the same thing. I prefer Durr over KLS. Anigwe may be available at #14.

PG: Boyd/L. Allen(off waivers)
SG: Durr/Rodgers/Hartley
SF: Nurse/free agent
PF: Charles/Raincock-Ekunwe
C: Zahui B./Anigwe/Stokes


I would like this very much.

But I agree with Root Anigwe isn't making it out of the first round.

Maybe something like Hartley and #14 would be enough to move up to Conn or Washington's first round pick.

I also want to give Brown a chance to impress me this season, and McCowan (but for some reason I am just not feeling her ATM).

My latest idea which I don't see happening is the #2 pick for Deshields, but I don't see why Chicago does that unless the new coach/gm doesn't like Diamond or desperately wants to start Gabby at the 3.


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PostPosted: 10/05/18 1:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://nypost.com/2018/10/04/msg-moving-ahead-with-plans-to-spin-off-the-knicks-and-rangers/

Quote:
MSG, meanwhile, reiterated Thursday it is exploring a sale for its WNBA team, the New York Liberty, a plan it announced last November.


Quote:
“Under Jim’s leadership, MSG has generated significant value for shareholders, nearly doubling MSG’s stock price, equating to an increase of $3.5 billion in market cap, since MSG was spun from MSG Networks in 2015,” a spokeswoman said.

“Now Jim is charting the company’s path for future growth, driven by the creation of state-of-the-art live entertainment venues.”



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PostPosted: 10/05/18 1:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
https://nypost.com/2018/10/04/msg-moving-ahead-with-plans-to-spin-off-the-knicks-and-rangers/

Quote:
MSG, meanwhile, reiterated Thursday it is exploring a sale for its WNBA team, the New York Liberty, a plan it announced last November.


Quote:
“Under Jim’s leadership, MSG has generated significant value for shareholders, nearly doubling MSG’s stock price, equating to an increase of $3.5 billion in market cap, since MSG was spun from MSG Networks in 2015,” a spokeswoman said.

“Now Jim is charting the company’s path for future growth, driven by the creation of state-of-the-art live entertainment venues.”


I'm sure the new WNBA president will discuss all those "prospective buyers" out there ... just as every WNBA president has said in similar situations.

In this case, as in others before it, the lack of interest/value of the franchise could conceivably result in the folding of the whole operation. I sure hope not, and would love to hear some positive news from those closer to the situation.



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PostPosted: 10/05/18 3:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Shades wrote:
https://nypost.com/2018/10/04/msg-moving-ahead-with-plans-to-spin-off-the-knicks-and-rangers/

Quote:
MSG, meanwhile, reiterated Thursday it is exploring a sale for its WNBA team, the New York Liberty, a plan it announced last November.


Quote:
“Under Jim’s leadership, MSG has generated significant value for shareholders, nearly doubling MSG’s stock price, equating to an increase of $3.5 billion in market cap, since MSG was spun from MSG Networks in 2015,” a spokeswoman said.

“Now Jim is charting the company’s path for future growth, driven by the creation of state-of-the-art live entertainment venues.”


I'm sure the new WNBA president will discuss all those "prospective buyers" out there ... just as every WNBA president has said in similar situations.

In this case, as in others before it, the lack of interest/value of the franchise could conceivably result in the folding of the whole operation. I sure hope not, and would love to hear some positive news from those closer to the situation.



Stephen A. Smith & Max Kellerman [hard-core Knicks fans] both
revile James L. Dolan!!! Let that sink into your brain for a moment.
A man that owns one of the PRIMER sports properties in the WORLD
is a DOLT. This man is a living breathing saboteur of the New York
Knicks. To expect his "leadership" to build the Liberty into a winning
WNBA franchise is to believe in pink unicorns that fart pixe dust.


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PostPosted: 10/05/18 3:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Shades wrote:
https://nypost.com/2018/10/04/msg-moving-ahead-with-plans-to-spin-off-the-knicks-and-rangers/

Quote:
MSG, meanwhile, reiterated Thursday it is exploring a sale for its WNBA team, the New York Liberty, a plan it announced last November.


Quote:
“Under Jim’s leadership, MSG has generated significant value for shareholders, nearly doubling MSG’s stock price, equating to an increase of $3.5 billion in market cap, since MSG was spun from MSG Networks in 2015,” a spokeswoman said.

“Now Jim is charting the company’s path for future growth, driven by the creation of state-of-the-art live entertainment venues.”


I'm sure the new WNBA president will discuss all those "prospective buyers" out there ... just as every WNBA president has said in similar situations.

In this case, as in others before it, the lack of interest/value of the franchise could conceivably result in the folding of the whole operation. I sure hope not, and would love to hear some positive news from those closer to the situation.


Seems like the spin off plan is to sell the teams then charge them a rent for using MSG. So MSG makes more money while the teams are possibly losing money.

As for the Liberty - not clear from the article if they would be part of the spin off or the idea is sell them before the spin off.


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PostPosted: 10/05/18 4:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Best case scenario for the Liberty is their new owner moves them to Brooklyn (Barclays).



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PostPosted: 10/05/18 6:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:

Seems like the spin off plan is to sell the teams then charge them a rent for using MSG. So MSG makes more money while the teams are possibly losing money.

As for the Liberty - not clear from the article if they would be part of the spin off or the idea is sell them before the spin off.


When you do a spin-off, the new entity belongs to the current stockholders. They're hoping that the sum of the parts will be worth more than the whole. It's all about market capitalization as reflected in the stock price. Imagine you have a sandwich, a bag of chips, and a soda in your lunchbox. You take them out of the lunchbox and put them on your desk so everyone can see them. Hopefully, someone hungry walks by and offers you a lot of money for the sandwich, someone thirsty offers you a lot of money for the soda, and someone with the munchies offers you a lot for the chips. Greater and clearer visibility will help you capture the real value of the asset -- at least that's the theory.

Some of the big shareholders are looking at the astronomical prices being paid for sports franchises, and they want to cash in. However, Dolan wants to hold on to the teams because it makes him a big man in town. This is his way of trying to have his cake and eat it too. As a point of reference, the Atlanta Braves are publicly traded as The Liberty Braves Group (BATRA). According to Yahoo Finance, their current market cap is $1.343 billion. The Florida Marlins were sold last year for $1.2 billion. I'm not sure how the assets compare in terms of what is included -- for instance, BATRA includes a mixed-use development next to the stadium -- so it may be apples and oranges. However, my gut reaction is that the Braves should be worth more than a 12% premium over the Marlins. So, public trading of a team may not get you as much as selling the entire team to a private ownership group.



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PostPosted: 10/05/18 6:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thanks for explaining that. BTW - the Braves are a "tracking stock" which seems a bit different. Don't know about the Marlins.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 10/05/18 11:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Thanks for explaining that. BTW - the Braves are a "tracking stock" which seems a bit different. Don't know about the Marlins.


Good point. I've had very little experience with tracking stocks. When Dell merged with EMC, we were issued a tracking stock for VMware because it was believed to have great potential value that was very hard to price. I'm sure some Finance professor could explain to you the finer points of risk associated with owning the tracking stock versus having a claim on the assets. To be honest, I just treated it like a regular stock. One could argue that a tracking stock is another route Dolan could have taken. Either way, I still don't think you'll get top dollar for a team until you sell the whole thing to someone who wants full control. The ego boost for the new owner is what gets them to overpay... that and the fact that there is always a "greater fool" down the road who will buy the team for an even higher price.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
tfan



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PostPosted: 10/30/18 10:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

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5thmantheme



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PostPosted: 10/30/18 3:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<clicks link> ... Oooooooooo Naahhhhh !!

I'd pay to see this fight.
Spoon can handle flagrant fouls from true heavyweights, and is 3 fight weight classes stronger.
Rousey wouldn't be more maneuverable with the heels on, and her #1 finishing move would be stymied by the jacket = slide right out. Meanwhile, she can't breathe in that dress (or so I'm told).

Very Happy Wink


Randy



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PostPosted: 10/30/18 3:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'd take Spoon in one on one basketball, but Rousey in a fight. Both would be very one sided.


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