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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 08/31/18 2:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here is why I think Durr is what the Liberty need.

IMO Durr will be excellent on the offensive end. I think from day 1 she will be a 13 ppg player (if she gets close to starter minutes) and that will easily raise to 15 ppg once she gets her footing. I think she will be better than say K. Mitchell she is a better shooter and bigger. I do not think that is as common as it looks. For instance NY hasn't had anyone else besides Tina score in double digits the last two years. Having a legit 2nd option on offense will make things easier for Charles and everyone else. Having a guard who can get there own shot will also give us a weapon we haven't had the last two seasons. Durr isn't a PG but she can initiate the offense. Also Durr, Nurse as your 2/3 gives you a lot of options I think they will be great compliments. I realize defense wins championship but I am so sick of being anemic on the offense end. I want someone to score the damn ball. Durr is capable of that. I'm still going to watch the bigs all season but I am much more excited about Durr than any other lottery player ATM.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/31/18 4:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Here is why I think Durr is what the Liberty need.

IMO Durr will be excellent on the offensive end. I think from day 1 she will be a 13 ppg player (if she gets close to starter minutes) and that will easily raise to 15 ppg once she gets her footing. I think she will be better than say K. Mitchell she is a better shooter and bigger. I do not think that is as common as it looks. For instance NY hasn't had anyone else besides Tina score in double digits the last two years. Having a legit 2nd option on offense will make things easier for Charles and everyone else. Having a guard who can get there own shot will also give us a weapon we haven't had the last two seasons. Durr isn't a PG but she can initiate the offense. Also Durr, Nurse as your 2/3 gives you a lot of options I think they will be great compliments. I realize defense wins championship but I am so sick of being anemic on the offense end. I want someone to score the damn ball. Durr is capable of that. I'm still going to watch the bigs all season but I am much more excited about Durr than any other lottery player ATM.


Listen, I hear you. There were games this year when NO ONE on the perimeter could make a jump shot. And the nice thing about Durr is that she can hit them from really long range. Often times she doesn't even need to create -- defenders just don't go out that far to challenge.

On the negative side, it perpetuates this problem we've had with carrying too many natural 2-guards and forcing most of them to play out of position. If everyone is playing their second best position, you're not getting the most out of them. I also believe you have a better chance of getting a decent shooter at #14 than a decent center. I truly do not believe that Anigwe will be there at #14. I don't understand how she could be arguably the best player in this class for two years and then suddenly be kicked down to the second round -- sometimes low 2nd -- in all these mock drafts. If she gets back to where she was as a sophomore, and maybe improves a tiny bit, then she's similar to an Ogwumike sister (the tall ones). That's both statistically and athletically. Her drop-off this past season was no worse than that of Collier whom everyone continues to believe is a 1st Rounder. So, if Anigwe is gone too, I don't really love any of the other centers.



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PostPosted: 08/31/18 4:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
Here is why I think Durr is what the Liberty need.

IMO Durr will be excellent on the offensive end. I think from day 1 she will be a 13 ppg player (if she gets close to starter minutes) and that will easily raise to 15 ppg once she gets her footing. I think she will be better than say K. Mitchell she is a better shooter and bigger. I do not think that is as common as it looks. For instance NY hasn't had anyone else besides Tina score in double digits the last two years. Having a legit 2nd option on offense will make things easier for Charles and everyone else. Having a guard who can get there own shot will also give us a weapon we haven't had the last two seasons. Durr isn't a PG but she can initiate the offense. Also Durr, Nurse as your 2/3 gives you a lot of options I think they will be great compliments. I realize defense wins championship but I am so sick of being anemic on the offense end. I want someone to score the damn ball. Durr is capable of that. I'm still going to watch the bigs all season but I am much more excited about Durr than any other lottery player ATM.


Listen, I hear you. There were games this year when NO ONE on the perimeter could make a jump shot. And the nice thing about Durr is that she can hit them from really long range. Often times she doesn't even need to create -- defenders just don't go out that far to challenge.

On the negative side, it perpetuates this problem we've had with carrying too many natural 2-guards and forcing most of them to play out of position. If everyone is playing their second best position, you're not getting the most out of them. I also believe you have a better chance of getting a decent shooter at #14 than a decent center. I truly do not believe that Anigwe will be there at #14. I don't understand how she could be arguably the best player in this class for two years and then suddenly be kicked down to the second round -- sometimes low 2nd -- in all these mock drafts. If she gets back to where she was as a sophomore, and maybe improves a tiny bit, then she's similar to an Ogwumike sister (the tall ones). That's both statistically and athletically. Her drop-off this past season was no worse than that of Collier whom everyone continues to believe is a 1st Rounder. So, if Anigwe is gone too, I don't really love any of the other centers.


This is exactly it. My beef isn’t with Durr or her game. It’s more a matchup thing but also the idea that it’s extremely difficult to find a quality post player. I know we’re not talking Leslie or Griner but they’re each potentially dominant players in their own ways. When else are we going to have a chance to draft 6’6” or 6’7” with real physical ability? The chance may not come again. You HAVE to take the opportunity.

Hopefully it’s just coachspeak so as not to reveal her true thoughts who knows? But given the events of the past year I certainly don’t trust that her decision will be what I think is best.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 08/31/18 8:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There will be one very happy Pokey if Katie takes a guard.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/31/18 9:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
There will be one very happy Pokey if Katie takes a guard.


Myrtle, you watch a lot of Pac-12 basketball. What's your opinion of Anigwe?



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PostPosted: 08/31/18 11:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
myrtle wrote:
There will be one very happy Pokey if Katie takes a guard.


Myrtle, you watch a lot of Pac-12 basketball. What's your opinion of Anigwe?


mixed thoughts. You know Cal-Stanford is a big rivalry right!? so I may not be totally unbiased. Wink So my thoughts. She is good, certainly very good at the college level. She has not had the best support crew around her. She has not had the best coaching (very nice person, not such a great coach IMO). I hate it that she is so terrible at the FT line. (one of my pet peeves) She hasn't performed great against the best teams though I think she had an ok game against UConn last year. However she really lives with double and triple teams because of the lack of support...which makes me think she may well be ok when she gets to the next level, where there will be much better guards, one on one coverage, and theoretically much better coaching. That said, I didn't think Billings would do as well as she has...and I think Anigwe is better than Billings...so maybe my opinion shouldn't hold too much weight. The thing to me that makes Billings as good as she is IMO is her 'want to' attitude. It's not clear to me that Anigwe has that clear ambition. It's a bit of a concern that she hasn't developed more from Freshman year until now...so this season may well tell us something. Depending on where she drops to though, she could be a really nice sleeper pick for someone.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/01/18 2:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
root_thing wrote:

Myrtle, you watch a lot of Pac-12 basketball. What's your opinion of Anigwe?


mixed thoughts. You know Cal-Stanford is a big rivalry right!? so I may not be totally unbiased. Wink So my thoughts. She is good, certainly very good at the college level. She has not had the best support crew around her. She has not had the best coaching (very nice person, not such a great coach IMO). I hate it that she is so terrible at the FT line. (one of my pet peeves) She hasn't performed great against the best teams though I think she had an ok game against UConn last year. However she really lives with double and triple teams because of the lack of support...which makes me think she may well be ok when she gets to the next level, where there will be much better guards, one on one coverage, and theoretically much better coaching. That said, I didn't think Billings would do as well as she has...and I think Anigwe is better than Billings...so maybe my opinion shouldn't hold too much weight. The thing to me that makes Billings as good as she is IMO is her 'want to' attitude. It's not clear to me that Anigwe has that clear ambition. It's a bit of a concern that she hasn't developed more from Freshman year until now...so this season may well tell us something. Depending on where she drops to though, she could be a really nice sleeper pick for someone.


I had the same thought about the double and triple teams. You hear people say so-and-so is always doubled and tripled but it's usually an exaggeration. With Anigwe, it really is the norm. Cal is another one of these athletic teams that can kill you if they get out and run, but in the half-court they can look pretty feeble. Anigwe is in a similar situation as Tina Charles except that it's worse because college coaches seem to feel they can send help with impunity. At the pro level, coaches are rarely that heedless.

Here's an article about her aspirations and supposed reasons for her dropoff last year:

Quote:
“I’m obsessed with basketball. It consumes me,” Anigwe said a day ahead of flying to Arizona for this season’s game played closest to Phoenix. “I’m selfish. I guess that’s bad to say in women’s basketball, but I want to be the best, dominate every game and help my team in every way possible.” In that vein, Anigwe has allowed her scoring average to dip from the 20 points per game that gained national notice in her first two seasons to 16.8. After failing to get to the Sweet 16 in her first two seasons, she wanted more. That means getting her teammates more involved...

“I felt like I had to put up 20 (points) and 10 (rebounds) every game, and it was stressful,” Anigwe said. “The night before games, I would think: ‘How am I going to do it? They know all of my moves.’

“But, now I’m getting better at trusting my teammates and watching it evolve.”

...Anigwe is known for doing 45-minute cardio sessions on her days off, but this season, she’s taken a longer view. She watches a ton of college basketball that doesn’t involve Top 25 teams and more WNBA games than many of the coaches and talent evaluators involved.

...“I experienced all the highs of college basketball at 17, getting all the love and all the fans. You’re playing well, so you don’t really realize the importance of winning. But if I want to be the WNBA’s No. 1 draft pick, I have to really win. I have to be a dominant player and elevate everyone else around me.”


https://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/article/Cal-s-Kristine-Anigwe-improving-all-around-game-12474914.php

If there's someone not currently in the conversation to go high in the draft who can crash the party, my money would be on Anigwe.

Thanks.



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PostPosted: 09/01/18 8:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm about to pull up some Cal games so I can take a look. I've never seen Anigwe play. Some general thoughts though. If she's as athletic as some of the scouting reports I've read would lead you to believe, then she could be in that category of player who looks better at the pro level where you have better complimentary players along with the defensive 3-second rule that tends to give posts more room to operate. You look at an A'ja Wilson who simply tore up the pro game this year when there were times in college that heavy defensive coverage forced her to take shots at a higher degree of difficulty.

Also, as the league is changing, I think the highly athletic posts also have the capacity to alter a team's balance in terms of free throw differential. I complained about the Libs' free throw differential for much of the year. I think still with some justification in terms of HOW the games are officiated but it's also clear that having posts slow to rotate was a bigger factor. The league is officiated these days in favor of offense, much like the NBA. Which is a reasonable thing if you want to draw fans. It puts heavy pressure on defenses to rotate with precision to avoid fouling. Agility in a post player nowadays is that much more important as a result. I'd argue that it is more so than physicality, with Cambage being the one exception to that rule. But even she has pretty good footwork and agility for someone that big.

Anybody who watched all the Libs' games will also remember the times they would rotate haphazardly. Julianne Viani even talked about it a few times. Among the things that does is open up the offensive boards to opponents. Which adds to negative FT opportunities and second chance points. So I'd say adding athleticism and wingspan inside can have an impact on the team in ways that don't necessarily show in the numbers of that individual.

Anyway, I'll watch when I can and share more thoughts when I do. But if she's as athletic as what I am reading and provides defense along with some offensive punch then you can bet she will be valued more as an early to mid first rounder.



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PostPosted: 09/01/18 9:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not sure why Anigwe is a Liberty topic, unless you want the team to trade down for her. She’s not going to go at #2, and she probably won’t make it to #14 either. Minnesota would probably be eager to do #6 and #16 for #2, but admittedly you can probably get a better deal from Dallas. Although I’m not exactly sure who they’d want to trade up for.... a big for Cambage insurance?

I find it hard to believe that teams that have been lucky enough to receive the ability to acquire a prominent big in this draft are thinking about not doing that.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/01/18 10:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Not sure why Anigwe is a Liberty topic, unless you want the team to trade down for her. She’s not going to go at #2, and she probably won’t make it to #14 either. Minnesota would probably be eager to do #6 and #16 for #2, but admittedly you can probably get a better deal from Dallas. Although I’m not exactly sure who they’d want to trade up for.... a big for Cambage insurance?

I find it hard to believe that teams that have been lucky enough to receive the ability to acquire a prominent big in this draft are thinking about not doing that.


The question is how good is Anigwe? Like most people, she dropped off the radar for me this season. However, unlike a lot of the people doing mock drafts, I didn't kick her to the curb. People seem to forget she was national freshman of the year and followed that up with a better season. She's 6-4 188 lbs and athletic. I find it hard to believe that pro scouts are going to like unathletic Meg Gustafson more or prefer raw Ezi Magbegor. And yet those two are being pushed as sure 1st Rounders while Anigwe is an after-thought in the second round. Sorry, for me that doesn't compute. However, I admit that I didn't pay much attention to Anigwe this year, so like NYL_WNBA_FAN, I'm going to see if I can find some games to watch.

Edit: Actually, I'm going to take back what I said about Gustafson because I haven't seen her that much. "Unathletic" might be too extreme, but nothing about her athletic ability seems to stand out.



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PostPosted: 09/01/18 10:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have her going #11 to ATL in my early mock draft. Seems like a good fit for them. She can move up her senior season if she’s worthy. I haven’t been that intrigued.... maybe if she was on a better team. She doesn’t exactly make her team great like a McCowan.

How about you? Where do you have her in the draft?



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PostPosted: 09/01/18 11:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The success of Diamond DeShields should help Anigwe's draft stock, as DeShields showed that issues in college don't necessarily translate to the WNBA.

And it could be that a different coach will make a big difference for Anigwe ...

I'm not as convinced about the impact of the double- and triple-teams because a college double team isn't that much different than being guarded by Griner or Fowles or any accomplished WNBA post defender.

It would help Anigwe greatly if she had a little more perimeter game, and defended without fouling quite as much, but neither of those are necessarily permanent issues.

All in all, she's a very solid roll of the dice around seven or eight, I'd say, and if someone feels they can do more with her, DeShields' success might convince that someone to pick her even higher.



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PostPosted: 09/01/18 11:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Are we really hoping Anigwe drops to #14 and we gamble and take Durr at #2?



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PostPosted: 09/01/18 11:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Even with all the double and triple teaming, Anigwe's sophomore stats are only slightly below that of Nneka Ogwumike as a senior and better than that of Glory Johnson as a senior. She is generally on the same level as those two athletically -- and slightly bigger -- so what if she's also on a similar level as a basketball player? What would that be worth in this draft? I'm not saying that Anigwe is actually that good, but if it's possible, isn't that worth a closer look? Right now, I think the crowd is wrong. The question is how wrong? All the draft talk we're doing now is premature anyway because not a single game has been played in these players' senior season. I don't see what's the harm in doing some extra due diligence. It's all for amusement anyway. None of us actually get to do the drafting.



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PostPosted: 09/01/18 1:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Are we really hoping Anigwe drops to #14 and we gamble and take Durr at #2?


Maybe Root wants to move up from #14.

How about you draft Durr #2, and then trade fresh contract Sugar Rodgers (I believe she went to Georgetown) and #14 to the Mystics for #10. If that’s too steep, maybe the Mystics chips in a late rounder.



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PostPosted: 09/01/18 8:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="toad455"]Are we really hoping Anigwe drops to #14 and we gamble and take Durr at #2?[/quote

For me these two things are not related.

Until I am more impressed with Brown or McCowan I want to draft Durr because I think she will be elite on the offensive end.

If we draft Durr I hope Anigwe is still there at 14 but it seems less and less likely though that is where some summer mocks have had heard.

If it meant getting Anigwe I would consider Shade's. Trade because I think Anigwe will be really good at the next level


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PostPosted: 09/01/18 9:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:

If it meant getting Anigwe I would consider Shade's trade because I think Anigwe will be really good at the next level


Trading Rodgers to move up 4 spots seems pricey. But if you draft Durr, you might be looking to unload her anyway. But what if #10 isn’t high enough of a pick? Got a backup prospect?

CON at #9 doesn’t need Sugar, but I could maybe see them taking Anigwe. I have them picking Collier at this point. I’m 95% sure PHX will pick Magbegor at #8 if available, so might not have to worry about them taking Anigwe. The Sparks at #7 wouldn’t help you. They don’t need another expensive guard. They might be intrigued by the Cal girl. Reeve at #6 would be too embarrassed to pay Rodger’s expensive contract after giving her away. I have no clue if she’d want Anigwe. She’s been obsessed with the PAC before. Anigwe better show signs of a WNBA player before Reeve picks her.

Too much Anigwe talk. Who started this hype?



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PostPosted: 09/02/18 8:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Are we really hoping Anigwe drops to #14 and we gamble and take Durr at #2?


I know I'm not. I think it would be insanity. But if you think about it, why would Katie Smith be so transparent as to reveal the Libs' exact plans in an article? I don't really know. The whole year has been one giant head-scratcher so I can't even say what's what.

But I'm going to take a look at Anigwe for awhile.



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PostPosted: 09/02/18 8:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Even with all the double and triple teaming, Anigwe's sophomore stats are only slightly below that of Nneka Ogwumike as a senior and better than that of Glory Johnson as a senior. She is generally on the same level as those two athletically -- and slightly bigger -- so what if she's also on a similar level as a basketball player? What would that be worth in this draft? I'm not saying that Anigwe is actually that good, but if it's possible, isn't that worth a closer look? Right now, I think the crowd is wrong. The question is how wrong? All the draft talk we're doing now is premature anyway because not a single game has been played in these players' senior season. I don't see what's the harm in doing some extra due diligence. It's all for amusement anyway. None of us actually get to do the drafting.


If she's that good athletically, she isn't going to last that long. Especially with the league trending toward highly athletic post players.



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PostPosted: 09/02/18 10:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I actually can't watch. No Cal games on youtube. Unless I missed something.



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PostPosted: 09/02/18 12:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If the Liberty want a big wing, draft KLS. She’s the best shooter in the draft, she’s 6’3 or 6’4, shoots lights out at 3, posts up, defends, etc. The Liberty want a home run? Draft KLS with #2 pick.


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PostPosted: 09/02/18 12:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:

If it meant getting Anigwe I would consider Shade's trade because I think Anigwe will be really good at the next level


Trading Rodgers to move up 4 spots seems pricey. But if you draft Durr, you might be looking to unload her anyway. But what if #10 isn’t high enough of a pick? Got a backup prospect?

CON at #9 doesn’t need Sugar, but I could maybe see them taking Anigwe. I have them picking Collier at this point. I’m 95% sure PHX will pick Magbegor at #8 if available, so might not have to worry about them taking Anigwe. The Sparks at #7 wouldn’t help you. They don’t need another expensive guard. They might be intrigued by the Cal girl. Reeve at #6 would be too embarrassed to pay Rodger’s expensive contract after giving her away. I have no clue if she’d want Anigwe. She’s been obsessed with the PAC before. Anigwe better show signs of a WNBA player before Reeve picks her.

Too much Anigwe talk. Who started this hype?


I don’t think Collier is going to be a very successful WNBA player. Just a feeling.


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PostPosted: 09/02/18 1:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If we're not taking a post, I'd prefer Durr over KLS. Go with a three guard starting line up with Boyd-Durr-Nurse.



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PostPosted: 09/02/18 2:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
Shades wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:

If it meant getting Anigwe I would consider Shade's trade because I think Anigwe will be really good at the next level


Trading Rodgers to move up 4 spots seems pricey. But if you draft Durr, you might be looking to unload her anyway. But what if #10 isn’t high enough of a pick? Got a backup prospect?

CON at #9 doesn’t need Sugar, but I could maybe see them taking Anigwe. I have them picking Collier at this point. I’m 95% sure PHX will pick Magbegor at #8 if available, so might not have to worry about them taking Anigwe. The Sparks at #7 wouldn’t help you. They don’t need another expensive guard. They might be intrigued by the Cal girl. Reeve at #6 would be too embarrassed to pay Rodger’s expensive contract after giving her away. I have no clue if she’d want Anigwe. She’s been obsessed with the PAC before. Anigwe better show signs of a WNBA player before Reeve picks her.

Too much Anigwe talk. Who started this hype?


I don’t think Collier is going to be a very successful WNBA player. Just a feeling.


I secretly have been hoping that Anigwe is or would be good enough so she can be slotted where the Lynx pick, so someone fits my demands for an athletic PF/C 6'3" or taller. to end my Severe Outrage 🙊😭


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PostPosted: 09/02/18 3:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wish we could see Queenie's thoughts on this thread and what she thinks NY needs, besides a location in the City.



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