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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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 Posted: 03/16/19 3:29 pm ::: |
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| So wondering whether there will be less money with the hiring of new staff is not a valid question, I would hope that the the new owner would add some dollars too, its not like Dolan was throwing money around.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 03/16/19 4:23 pm ::: |
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| Nixtreefan wrote: |
| So wondering whether there will be less money with the hiring of new staff is not a valid question, I would hope that the the new owner would add some dollars too, its not like Dolan was throwing money around. |
You didn't pose your comment about Katie Smith as a serious question. That's obvious. Please refer back to all of root_thing's statements about you. He had it exactly right.
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Nixtreefan
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| Posted: 03/16/19 9:47 pm ::: |
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I am actually a Katie Smith fan, but then you are such a mind reader you should have known that. Here's wishing Katie much luck and better fortune under the new owners.
And no I won't, I didn't realize you were someone elses keeper.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 03/16/19 10:12 pm ::: |
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| Nixtreefan wrote: |
I am actually a Katie Smith fan, but then you are such a mind reader you should have known that. Here's wishing Katie much luck and better fortune under the new owners.
And no I won't, I didn't realize you were someone elses keeper. |
You evaded what root_thing wrote and you're evading what I wrote. But everyone can see the truth about you.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 03/17/19 9:19 am ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
I am not exactly sure what people are talking about with the simple deal that seems to include 4 teams.
Now if you are trying to come up with a 3 team deal with LV, NY. and Dallas I have something like
Dallas gets #2 pick (McCowan), Jefferson and Harrison
LV gets Cambage and Boyd
NY get #1 pick (Ionescu) and #17 pick
Dallas
Jefferson, Gray, Stevens, Johnson, McCowan
(Diggins-Smith), Hill, Davis, Thorton, Harrison, Plaisance and #5
LV
Plum, McBride, Young, Wilson, Cambage
Boyd, Allen, Nared, Coffey, Hamby, Park and Swords
NY
Ionescu, Nurse, Zelous, Charles, Stokes
Hartley, Rodgers, R. Allen, NRE, Zahui B, #14 (Han Xu or Turner) and #17 (ideally a sf type Howard, Cuningham, Carlton, Martin, Blockton or Dillard or Mabrey just for fun and shooting/scoring).
But I think this was a pointless exercise since I see Cambage going to LA
so simple version
Boyd and #2 McCowan to LV for #1 Ionescu |
Without getting into all the specifics, I think the last trade above is actually starting to make more and more sense. WNBA Fans Nation on facebook (always reliable with injury info so I trust him/her) reported that the Libs will not re-sign Coleman or Z (no surprise on either one, since I feel if Z was returning she already would have). It's also reported that the Libs will decide whether to deal Boyd depending on the draft. If that's true (it makes sense for 2 reasons which I'll explain) then the only player the Liberty could be targeting is Ionescu, as she's the only first round caliber pick who can play PG.
Trading Boyd to LV makes sense since we see she hasn't even signed with the Libs yet, as a RFA that means there's got to be a reason. Secondly, it would give LV enormous flexibility. MoJeff becomes expendable (makes sense...she's small and would be of more value elsewhere) and Plum becomes entrenched as your starter. Also, you might be able to trade Jefferson for a pick that becomes Collier, a player that Vegas could dearly use if Bill wants to alternate between big and small lineups. In his system, Collier would probably be a star at a hybrid 3/4...much like a young Swin Cash. Boyd gives the change of pace option off the bench (and the ability to pressure the ball on D) and you'd have speed and size lineups to hurt the opposition with.
For NY, they get a second franchise player....a player who immediately improves the team and makes every other player on it better. It would mean they'd solidify PG for years while making positions 2-4 better offensively just as a result of her presence. It would be a win/win in terms of the future in two ways. IF you get improvement from your young 5 spot players, you're right back in the 20+ win neighborhood. If you don't, you're probably back in the lottery (albeit with a more competitive team) and you can target the single position (5 spot) that you really need to improve. As such you'd make yourself viable in 2020 when you also move back into a facility more befitting of a professional team. That to me is the best "can't lose" proposition. Everyone wins in that deal. LV becomes an immediate championship contender. NY gets Ionescu while not having to yield its 2020 first round pick. If they have significant improvement, awesome. If they don't, they have a lottery pick as insurance and only have a desperate need to improve one position.
Based on the reporting, I believe this has a reasonable chance of actually happening. It improves both teams equally.
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Shades
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| Posted: 03/17/19 10:16 am ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
Boyd and #2 McCowan to LV for #1 Ionescu |
It's also reported that the Libs will decide whether to deal Boyd depending on the draft. |
Wait, I thought that was my speculation. But I see it as Boyd possibly going to DAL, LAS, or staying at NYL.... whoever ends up needing a PG in the end. Vegas doesn’t need a PG. If they do, they might as well keep Ionescu. 🤔
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| If that's true (it makes sense for 2 reasons which I'll explain) then the only player the Liberty could be targeting is Ionescu, as she's the only first round caliber pick who can play PG. |
Ogunnerfromfaraway will probably have to be developed as a PG, just like Plum.
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| Secondly, it would give LV enormous flexibility. MoJeff becomes expendable (makes sense...she's small and would be of more value elsewhere) and Plum becomes entrenched as your starter. |
They already have enormous flexibility without Boyd. They have Lindsay Allen, who has developed her scoring overseas, which most likely makes Laimbeer very happy.
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| Boyd gives the change of pace option off the bench (and the ability to pressure the ball on D) and you'd have speed and size lineups to hurt the opposition with. |
If she gives a team all that, you might be better off keeping her.
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| For NY, they get a second franchise player....a player who immediately improves the team and makes every other player on it better. It would mean they'd solidify PG for years while making positions 2-4 better offensively just as a result of her presence. |
Okay, let’s say she’s a franchise player. Laimbeer doesn’t want a second franchise player? Apparently, nobody outside Ionescu is a franchise player in this draft. The difference between a franchise player and a non-franchise player is Boyd, somebody who isn’t good enough for the Liberty (who could really use a PG) but would be a big difference-maker to Vegas, who is overloaded at PG (besides Allen they signed Chong too). It’s not adding up for me.
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| It would be a win/win in terms of the future in two ways. IF you get improvement from your young 5 spot players, you're right back in the 20+ win neighborhood. If you don't, you're probably back in the lottery (albeit with a more competitive team) and you can target the single position (5 spot) that you really need to improve. |
Who you spying for the center position next year? I don’t consider Hebard a center at the next level. There’s some nice forwards coming out in Cox and Sabally.
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| That to me is the best "can't lose" proposition. Everyone wins in that deal. LV becomes an immediate championship contender. NY gets Ionescu while not having to yield its 2020 first round pick. If they have significant improvement, awesome. If they don't, they have a lottery pick as insurance and only have a desperate need to improve one position. |
Vegas helps themselves by not taking a franchise player but the player they really need in McCowan. Couldn’t other teams do the same and be more generous with an offer better than Boyd? Maybe Laimbeer likes Mitchell, Gabby, or DeShields.... or more draft picks in a deep draft. He’s only playing with one in this draft.
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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| Posted: 03/17/19 12:45 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| Nixtreefan wrote: |
I am actually a Katie Smith fan, but then you are such a mind reader you should have known that. Here's wishing Katie much luck and better fortune under the new owners.
And no I won't, I didn't realize you were someone elses keeper. |
You evaded what root_thing wrote and you're evading what I wrote. But everyone can see the truth about you. |
I will tell you the truth but it is more my feelings, I will not fit into your little box. Or do you want to send me a template so I can follow along and answer questions like a LIB fan.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 03/17/19 1:24 pm ::: |
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| I am skeptical that Bill Laimbeer or anyone else will give up much of anything to get Brittany Boyd. I'm not saying this to trash her. But, for me, she's nothing more than a backup point guard. If she's back with New York this season and is a terrific starting point guard, she'll have proven me wrong and I'll be thrilled.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 03/17/19 1:30 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| I am skeptical that Bill Laimbeer or anyone else will give up much of anything to get Brittany Boyd. I'm not saying this to trash her. But, for me, she's nothing more than a backup point guard. If she's back with New York this season and is a terrific starting point guard, she'll have proven me wrong and I'll be thrilled. |
Agreed. There could also be some kind of PG trade involving all four mentioned teams. Boyd to Vegas, Gray to Dallas, Jefferson to LA, Ionescu to NY(#1 pick). Then the trade involving post players & picks. Cambage to LA, Harrison to Dallas, Lavender to NY, #7 pick to Dallas, #2 pick to Vegas.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 03/17/19 1:40 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
Agreed. There could also be some kind of PG trade involving all four mentioned teams. Boyd to Vegas, Gray to Dallas, Jefferson to LA, Ionescu to NY(#1 pick). Then the trade involving post players & picks. Cambage to LA, Harrison to Dallas, Lavender to NY, #7 pick to Dallas, #2 pick to Vegas. |
I just don't get it. Perhaps Bill Laimbeer sees Boyd as a good starting point guard. Perhaps people here do. I don't. In her best moments, she's terrific. I like her as a player. I like having her on my team. I just don't see her ever having the consistency to be an effective starting point guard.
I suspect that all these trade rumors about Boyd will go nowhere and she will, indeed, be our starting point guard for 2019. So I hope she's outstanding. And I'll be happy to say here in print that I was wrong.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 03/17/19 1:52 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
Agreed. There could also be some kind of PG trade involving all four mentioned teams. Boyd to Vegas, Gray to Dallas, Jefferson to LA, Ionescu to NY(#1 pick). Then the trade involving post players & picks. Cambage to LA, Harrison to Dallas, Lavender to NY, #7 pick to Dallas, #2 pick to Vegas. |
I just don't get it. Perhaps Bill Laimbeer sees Boyd as a good starting point guard. Perhaps people here do. I don't. In her best moments, she's terrific. I like her as a player. I like having her on my team. I just don't see her ever having the consistency to be an effective starting point guard.
I suspect that all these trade rumors about Boyd will go nowhere and she will, indeed, be our starting point guard for 2019. So I hope she's outstanding. And I'll be happy to say here in print that I was wrong. |
I clearly said “change of pace” and that Plum would be entrenched as the starting PG. They’d be losing one draft position to take the player they need anyway. They’d also be able to move Jefferson, a player who doesn’t fit their system but would still have trade value. It may not happen but it makes total sense. I watched Vegas play about 10-15 times last year. Trust me. Jefferson is not a fit. On Vegas, a team that plays at a much faster pace than NY, Boyd would be, and she’d be big enough to play defense the way Laimbeer prefers. Not to mention, it’s March 17th. The draft is 3 weeks away. Maybe all this is nothing and Boyd will still be here. But if so, why hasn’t she signed yet? This feels awfully late in the game for an RFA. Particularly at such an important position.
In answer to Shades, why would Chicago trade lots of value for Ionescu when their 1 and 2 positions are set (and the two people in question are married and going nowhere) and they have other needs? Why would Laimbeer make any move (keeping Ionescu) that would maintain or make worse a team that was 8th in defense in terms of that side of the ball? It goes against his philosophy. Ain’t no way he’s making any move that involves moving Mcbride to SF, which obtaining Ionescu would likely do. And Ionescu isn’t a SF, no matter what he said in that regard. He’s clearly said and demonstrated that SG is McBride’s spot. If he won’t start her at SF there’s no chance he would start Ionescu there.
The other option would be moving Plum to NY, but that has nothing to do with the draft. And I believe the rumor carries some weight (Libs waiting for the draft if they decide to deal Boyd) precisely because the person bringing it up has a track record of accuracy.
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toad455
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| Posted: 03/17/19 1:58 pm ::: |
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Laimbeer likes Boyd, and she'd be Plum's back up in Vegas. Smith isn't confident in Boyd, so there's the reason she's coming up in trade talks. We get this trade along with someone like Lavender or Harrison and we take a SG or SF at #14. Cunningham? Carleton? Anriel Howard?
PG: Ionescu/Hartley
SG: #14 pick/Rodgers
SF: Nurse/Allen
PF: Charles/Zahui B/Raincock-Ekunwe
C: Lavender/Stokes
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Shades
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J-Spoon
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| Posted: 03/17/19 2:40 pm ::: |
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I see everyone's point
My suggestion of Boyd and #2 for #1 includes two theoretical ideas that might make it make more sense
1 that Laimbeer actually wants McCowan as much as Ionecu so talking her up lets him get the player he wants at #1 anyway and another asset.
And 2 having both Boyd and Allen frees up Jefferson to be traded, gives you better defense when Plum is mot working, and allows you to play Plum at the two spot when McBride is rested giving you options for speed with Boyd or steady hand with Allen. Both Boyd and Allen can play next to Plum in a way that Jefferson and Ionecu. probably couldn't in Laimbeer eye which also makes for a more balanced 3 guard line up with plum McBride and your choice of Allen or Boyd
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5thmantheme
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| Posted: 03/17/19 2:43 pm ::: |
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The alternative Simple deal might go :
Liz to LA
Nneka to Vegas
#1 to Dallas
plus a whole lot of massaging
NY's not in the deal at all, except Ionescu / McCowan changes other deals like Boyd or Bonner.
Still doesn't explain Aces 2 extra players.
Might handle some of the unsigned players on the teams involved.
Doesn't explain a pile of unsigned players on NY and other teams not in the deal.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 03/17/19 2:49 pm ::: |
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| In that scenario Wilson or Nneka is the starting C. On a Laimbeer team there’s no chance. Zero.
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dab44lb
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| Posted: 03/17/19 2:51 pm ::: |
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| 5thmantheme wrote: |
The alternative Simple deal might go :
Liz to LA
Nneka to Vegas
#1 to Dallas
plus a whole lot of massaging
NY's not in the deal at all, except Ionescu / McCowan changes other deals like Boyd or Bonner.
Still doesn't explain Aces 2 extra players.
Might handle some of the unsigned players on the teams involved.
Doesn't explain a pile of unsigned players on NY and other teams not in the deal. |
Why would LA trade Nneka for a player that may not show up in 2020? Are they any closer with Liz to a title for one year than they would be with Nneka in general? This trade makes no sense for LA.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 03/17/19 3:00 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
I see everyone's point
My suggestion of Boyd and #2 for #1 includes two theoretical ideas that might make it make more sense
1 that Laimbeer actually wants McCowan as much as Ionecu so talking her up lets him get the player he wants at #1 anyway and another asset.
And 2 having both Boyd and Allen frees up Jefferson to be traded, gives you better defense when Plum is mot working, and allows you to play Plum at the two spot when McBride is rested giving you options for speed with Boyd or steady hand with Allen. Both Boyd and Allen can play next to Plum in a way that Jefferson and Ionecu. probably couldn't in Laimbeer eye which also makes for a more balanced 3 guard line up with plum McBride and your choice of Allen or Boyd |
Exactly. And above all a Boyd deal is being rumored by an excellent source who says they’re waiting for the draft to decide if they’re dealing Boyd. There’s only one logical reason to wait for the draft. To see if Ionescu declares.
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J-Spoon
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| Posted: 03/17/19 7:33 pm ::: |
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| dab44lb wrote: |
| 5thmantheme wrote: |
The alternative Simple deal might go :
Liz to LA
Nneka to Vegas
#1 to Dallas
plus a whole lot of massaging
NY's not in the deal at all, except Ionescu / McCowan changes other deals like Boyd or Bonner.
Still doesn't explain Aces 2 extra players.
Might handle some of the unsigned players on the teams involved.
Doesn't explain a pile of unsigned players on NY and other teams not in the deal. |
Why would LA trade Nneka for a player that may not show up in 2020? Are they any closer with Liz to a title for one year than they would be with Nneka in general? This trade makes no sense for LA. |
Liz not showing up might be an issue but the answer to the Liz. Vs Nneka question imo is yes Liz and Parker are a better combo for getting a title. Last year with Parker and Ogwumike and the remaining starters from that season la was 6th and had probably a superior coach with Agiler. I think the Parker/Ogwumike years have run their course so I thinkswitching things up might be really good for la
I also would like to see Nneka with a more featured role and she with Diggins would be a nice combo (as I see the trade as Ogwumike for Cambage straight up no need for Vegas. For the three team variation above if I am Dallas I try to get LV to throw in Jefferson so Jefferson and #1 for Cambage or the three team variation that include Ogwumike to LV).
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toad455
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Luuuc
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| Posted: 03/20/19 7:42 am ::: |
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Excellent. Pack that place out, Lib fans!
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Nixtreefan
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toad455
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| Posted: 03/20/19 8:50 am ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
Excellent. Pack that place out, Lib fans! |
The two camp games are still TBD though. Still no announcement. Single game tickets go on sale April 1.
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toad455
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| Posted: 03/20/19 8:52 am ::: |
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| Nneka would still be forced to play center in Vegas though. Not ideal especially when the Aces would have 3 or possibly 4 true centers on their roster(Swords, Bone, Park and possibly McCowan).
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toad455
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