RebKell's Junkie Boards

[root_thing]

There is a difference in the ultimate goal. I think most WNBA owners hope for the day when their franchises become money-making ventures. Most don't want to keep absorbing large losses. That's not the case overseas. They don't ever expect to make money. Teams just hope that the current sponsor continues, and if that doesn't happen, they look for a new sponsor.

_________________
You can always do something else.

[Randy]

The WNBA should really consider whether its business model - based on a hard salary cap and limiting salaries to big stars is a failure. It is pretty much a minor league model where teams have low budgets and try to make a profit in a town or leave. Except it doesn't work.

A "sky is the limit but there is no floor" CBA would allow teams to spend as much or as little as they want. If they are cheap they could still be in the WNBA and maybe lose a lot of games. Some teams now lose a lot games. On the other hand wealthy ego maniacs might like the idea of buying a championship by outspending other owners. In that case franchise values for owner that didn't want to stick around would probably allow their teams to be sold quickly, and for more than they are worth now. After 20 years the crowds are thin and declining, the teams are financial losers and the players don't like the CBA anyway. They are all pretty much used to the overseas model where they can get their market value.

[ClayK]

I think the fear is that too many owners would just quit, leaving only four or five franchises.

_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā

[Mojo]

[Shades]

[myrtle]

[myrtle]

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

It should also be pointed out that a 100K salary for a WNBA player is different from the general public in other ways. If a person can have a 30-year career in their occupation with a pension or retirement plan, that’s a different type of long-term security. Other than the stars making mega amounts of money overseas, a WNBA career alone does not provide long-term security. Nor does it account for the physical toll placed on one’s body, especially those who play year-round.

_________________
The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[Randy]

[root_thing]

Some of the WNBL players are the equivalent of high school kids. They are either amateurs or only nominally paid. I remember Lauren Scherf with Dandenong a few years ago. She used to miss games because she had to take exams. Rebecca Allen played on a team where the coach's daughter was one of the players. I think she was 14 when the season started. So, the WNBL is not really a great comparison.

_________________
You can always do something else.

[tfan]

[Richyyy]

[tfan]

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

Back to draft discussion:

At this point, unless Ionescu comes out and the Libs make some type of blockbuster trade to move up from 2 to 1, I'm thinking that the choices have now narrowed down to Durr or Collier. I have several reasons. First off, I'd think if Z or Piph were returning via UFA, they'd already have done so, particularly Piph, who is from NY and doesn't really need the money. Secondly I think McCowan is out because LV is going to ultimately want her either as #1 or via trade. Secondly I think NY has its 4 posts already and Katie Smith has shown a desire to want undersized lineups over more conventional ones. The undersized trend largely was successful for teams in 2018, so I'd expect the Libs to continue to try to mirror that if able. That's why even though I personally want Collier, putting that aside, I think the Libs' choice may also very well be Collier based on how they've constructed their roster to this point. Their only true SF right now is Allen, who may not even be healthy when the season starts. Beyond that, I'm not sold that they want their entire SF responsibility to be in the hands of Nurse. Not even sure based on LY's minutes that they would have wanted the primary responsibility in Z's hands. Enter Collier, who has enough size and speed with just enough face-up ability to play the position, while also filling that undersized 4 spot that Katie Smith loves.

Anyway, here's the case for each player:

The case for Durr: I see Durr as markedly improved over her junior season. Her numbers may not reflect the extent to which her game has changed, but I love the improved step-back jumper even when contested. It's not only reminiscent of a young James Harden but it's enabled her to get to the foul line at an increased rate because you have to really be ready to close out even as Durr is dribbling. She's not a speed player, nor a pure playmaker, but she's got good open-floor ability and excellent balance and body control near the basket. She's also not bad going right. I've gone from not being a big fan to now thinking that she's a future star. Shot creation is something that not all players feature, but Durr can flat-out do that. Her defense and rebounding are ordinary but if you can live with that, her offense has high upside upon WNBA development, IMO.

The case for Collier: Clearly the most versatile player in the draft. I think her stock went up in the South Carolina game because she demonstrated her open-court ability and speed by going coast-to-coast a few times against one of the fastest teams in the country. Further, she held her own inside against some strong players physically. She can defend both 3s and 4s, and I'm personally of the opinion that she will eventually be a first-team WNBA defensive player due to her suddenness, lateral ability, desire and basketball IQ. People have compared her to Gabby Williams. I don't see that at all. I see Alyssa Thomas with a 15 foot jumper. She's got handle (she's not Sue Bird but for a 6'2" 180-190 pound player it's quite good), playmaking ability, speed, and size and strength. She can also finish at multiple angles at the rim, just like Thomas. Unlike Thomas, Collier can also play a face-up game out to about 15-18 feet. She's basically played C for two years. Put her in a combo wing's role and you'll see her perimeter game improve. She didn't shoot 44 from 3 and 80 from the line two years ago by accident. Further, I think Katie Smith has to be actively considering drafting Collier. She loves that ability to switch to an undersized 4. If she thought Coleman could do it, she has to be thinking Collier can. As such, you could feature a variety of lineups:

Boyd-Nurse-Collier-TIna-Stokes/AZB

Hartley-Sugar-Nurse-Collier-Tina

Hartley-Nurse/Sugar-Collier-Tina-AZB

Two of the above would be "space the floor" options. It would give you the depth you need at both the 3 and 4 spots. Given the lack of re-signings at this point, and what Katie Smith has shown herself to want to do as a coach, right now I consider Collier the odds-on favorite to be drafted by NY. Of course, we will see what personnel changes might still be made, but if all things stay the same, this is what I think. Drafting Durr would mean Nurse would be the starting SF with only Allen behind her off the bench. Considering Nurse wasn't even the first SF OFF THE BENCH last year, I seriously doubt Katie Smith is going to want her to be a starting SF if there's another option readily available.

_________________
The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[toad455]

At this stage in her career, it's likely best for Charles to remain at the 4 spot. This is why I've been pushing to have Zahui B start at center. Stokes isn't much of a "banger" inside, but Zahui B has built up the toughness to deal with a lot of the stronger posts inside. Zahui B also provides more offense than Stokes and with Raincock-Ekunwe back, she can play a lot more minutes at center. I think the team needs offense first and that's why I'm in favor of drafting Durr at #2 and the best available post at #14.

_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY

[Randy]

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

[Nixtreefan]

Because unlike Antonelli, most GMs know that you actually have to have size and height to play in the paint in the W and just like Chicagos experiment last year with a more athletic player you cannot make someone into something that are not.

I remember her love of Mitchell last year, she would be the last person I would listen to.

_________________
"White privilege is unseen by white pompous asses"
Feelings, nothing more than feelings...

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

[Nixtreefan]

You are right that she is not Williams who is an athletic beast but not with your other comments IMO, Williams was much stronger and a better leaper, and she is no where near as tall as Howard. I watched her in person at Cal and she was 4 inches shorter than Anigwe, which is why they had to double Anigwe.

_________________
"White privilege is unseen by white pompous asses"
Feelings, nothing more than feelings...

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

[Nixtreefan]

Wasn't talking about Williams being shorter My only reference to Williams was that the only comment I agreed with you on that she wasn't like Williams the rest I disagreed with LMAO AND just like Williams she has no SF skills and is a worse free throw shooter.

_________________
"White privilege is unseen by white pompous asses"
Feelings, nothing more than feelings...

[bballjunkie]

[quote="NYL_WNBA_FAN"][quote="Nixtreefan"]Because unlike Antonelli, most GMs know that you actually have to have size and height to play in the paint in the W and just like Chicagos experiment last year with a more athletic player you cannot make someone into something that are not.

I remember her love of Mitchell last year, she would be the last person I would listen to.[/quote]

She's as tall as Howard and 15 pounds heavier and Seattle won a title last year so...

Collier isn't Gabby Williams no matter how many times you want to say that she is. She's a much more accomplished player in the paint, stronger, and a better scorer. Plus, she's essentially played the 5 spot for 2 years at UConn. The only parallel to Gabby Williams is that they both played at UConn. They're otherwise not really alike at all.[/quote]

This is not true and I don’t know why you have to dis Gabby Williams as she was much stronger and did not need nearly as many double teams against posts when she was in college as she was much quicker and could out rebound bigger players. Gabby was also a much better passer and could read the defense much better. One of the reasons we have had to dumb down our offense is because only Crystal and KLS know them. This is where we really miss Gabby.

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]