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KML: It's not happening
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ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 9:44 am    ::: KML: It's not happening Reply Reply with quote

OK, she's only 22, but I don't see it -- I think third overall pick Kaleena Mosequeda-Lewis can officially be classified as a WNBA bust.

As mentioned in another thread, her greatest strength -- shooting -- has not translated to the WNBA level (career 24.7%), she has more turnovers than assists, doesn't rebound well and can't start for one of the lesser teams in the league.

You can't really say Seattle blew the pick, though, as AZB hasn't been much better (she was the second pick) and despite Elizabeth Williams' resurgence so far this year, KML seemed like the better choice at the time.

Ironically, Kiah Stokes, who couldn't start for UConn while KML got lots of hype, is pretty clearly the best player after Jewell Loyd in a very undistinguished draft class. One would hope to get more from a No. 3 pick, however, even in this group. Cheyenne Parker, Dearica Hamby and Isabelle Harrison all look to be better players than KML.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 10:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

KML not KLM



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StevenHW



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 10:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
KML not KLM


Yeah, when I first read the title, my first thought was that something happened to that Dutch airline. Wink



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 11:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have more hope that Zahui B. will turn out as a solid player in the WNBA. Was never a fan of KML & always thought she was overhyped simply because she played for UCONN. She's shown much next to nothing since arriving in the WNBA last year. Zahui B. is clearly putting in the work & I think having her work with Laimbeer will benefit her down the road. KML is currently 2-17 from 3pt. And that's her strongest part of her game. Doesn't seem like she's put work into her game in the offseason, nor in her conditioning. Probably just another Shoni Shimmel.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 11:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We kinda already had this thread a couple of times before, only it was more like "What's wrong with Agler?" thread, even though Agler was never KML's coach. This person who has a similar level in investment in the WNBA was confused why Stokes was doing better than KML. Maybe I can find the thread later.

I predicted SEA would draft KML only because they hinted that they would, but I always felt Williams was the better prospect. I believe I had her as the #1 pick before the two declarations. So yeah, if you don't factor in the time-space continuum factor, Williams would be the perfect fit for this current SEA squad.

It's hard to be right or wrong about something like this, because if SEA would have selected Williams instead of KML, how does that affect their chances of getting Stewart? I think getting Stewart is the most important occurrence for the future of SEA. So to debate who SEA should have picked becomes a null argument, because whatever they did to get to the point they are now is exactly what they should have done. Getting Stewart is by far the most important event for this franchise.

Just like with the Lynx and Maya. Whatever sequence of events occurred that caused Minnesota to miss the 2010 playoffs (Lynx fans should love Anosike's intolerance for pain and Thompson's clutch shooting, should enshrine Augustus' fibroids and Wiggins' cast for her Achilles, and should thanking their lucky stars they took Wright over Prince in the draft) is what needed to happen for the Lynx to be the nastiest of dynasties ever in the WNBA. I know this time-space continuum stuff may be a little deep for someone who struggles with KML/KLM, so I'll try to keep it simple. KML was the perfect choice for SEA.

Now as far as being a complete bust for the league, this is only KML's second year, so it's a little early to be calling her that. It looks like she'll be sticking around at least this year. A lot positive things could happen. She has the natural skills. It just comes down to how badly she wants a WNBA career compared to doing something else. Is it worth it for her to do what she needs to do.... just like with Schimmel, Liston, Adams, Appel, etc.

You can probably come up with a fairly long list of prospects where it didn't look good for them early on and they eventually came around. Latta and Larkins. 2009 is a good year for this. Toliver looked like a first year bust. She got traded for a second round pick. Coleman and Paris. Renee Montgomery is only starting to get a little respect (but I do fear regression from her). Alysha Clark had a rocky start. Ever heard of Quigley? Clarendon? You can probably add to this list.

BTW, Harrison is from the 2015 class, not KML's. Maybe you were thinking Achonwa?



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SpaceJunkie



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 11:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
BTW, Harrison is from the 2015 class, not KML's. Maybe you were thinking Achonwa?


KML is from the 2015 Draft, just like Harrison.


Randy



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 12:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, as long as we are into the space-time continuum stuff, I was thinking that there probably is a parallel universe somewhere where Seattle took Stokes at No. 3. If I could only log into their version of RebKell it would be fascinating to see how it all turned out. Yeah - Seattle only got Stewart by going all out to lose the last game with the Stars. Stokes might have won them just one more game than KML and changed Seattle's world.

On a side note - it's not surprising that the Shoni for KML trade talk has died down. However, it may now be a more even trade than anyone thought before. It will be interesting to see if either of these players is in the WNBA a year or two from now. I'm not betting on either being around, though KML, at least, is still getting some playing time.


SpaceJunkie



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 12:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Well, as long as we are into the space-time continuum stuff, I was thinking that there probably is a parallel universe somewhere where Seattle took Stokes at No. 3. If I could only log into their version of RebKell it would be fascinating to see how it all turned out. Yeah - Seattle only got Stewart by going all out to lose the last game with the Stars. Stokes might have won them just one more game than KML and changed Seattle's world.


I think everybody was underestimating Stokes, so nobody had her in the lottery. Even expert talent evaluator (Smile), pilight, posted nonstop on how Stokes isn't good enough to make a roster spot in the WNBA. Very Happy Now if the Chicago Sky "reached" for Stokes at #5 instead of Cheyenne Parker would be a better parallel universe.


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PostPosted: 06/02/16 12:32 pm    ::: Re: KML: It's not happening Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
One would hope to get more from a No. 3 pick, however, even in this group. Cheyenne Parker, Dearica Hamby and Isabelle Harrison all look to be better players than KML.

Which Cheyenne Parker have you been watching?

Hamby's likely languishing on the bench for virtually any other team, too.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 12:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy, I think Williams has a higher ceiling than Stokes. They're pretty similar defensively but offensively I'd say Williams has the upper hand. If Williams was working with a PG like Bird, that could have been interesting to see.

I don't what to think of your conspiracy theory on SEA losing that last game. SEA beat MIN down the stretch. They could have easily lost that game and no one would be the wiser (except maybe SpaceJunkie). It's kinda like saying a game came down to that last bad call, and the rest of the game didn't matter.

Is it time-space continuum or space-time continuum? That confuses me more than deferred picks. I suppose we should ask the expert, JunkieSpace. I also have a feeling Back to the Future was one of his all time favorite movies. Smile



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 1:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Why does this surprise anyone?

It was apparent in college that she (a) could not create her own shot, and (b) could not play defense. Guess what. In the WNBA she still can't create her own shot and still can't play defense. She doesn't get those wide open set shots the UConn offense was designed to provide her and she is defended by taller, quicker, more talented opponents than she typically faced. And frankly now she looks like she's getting desperate. Most of her shots look forced, not smooth or confident. I'm not convinced she's as bad as she looks this year, but she's not likely to ever be a star.

If she was a LOT quicker, maybe she could be more succesful at the 2, but it's probably a little late to develop that quickness and ball handling now.

Too bad Seattle didn't take Hamby.


Randy



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 1:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Randy, I think Williams has a higher ceiling than Stokes. They're pretty similar defensively but offensively I'd say Williams has the upper hand. If Williams was working with a PG like Bird, that could have been interesting to see.


Is it time-space continuum or space-time continuum? That confuses me more than deferred picks. I suppose we should ask the expert, JunkieSpace. I also have a feeling Back to the Future was one of his all time favorite movies. Smile


I hope you are right about WIlliams v. Stokes. Williams is already scoring more, and others have said she didn't have a good coach in college. Stokes does seem to be the better rebounder, and blocks are about the same. I'm pretty sure Stokes had good coaching in college.

The profs always used Space-Time Continuum back when I was getting my degrees in Physics.


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 2:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Too bad Seattle didn't take Hamby.

Because what the Storm really need is another undersized post who hasn't shown much ability to be able to defend anyone? Williams made more sense than KML positionally when they were drafted, and still would be a useful fit in Seattle.

The problem KML has had so far this season is that she's not even hitting her open shots. She had several good looks last night against Indiana. Hopefully that's a blip, considering how good her shot was in college. Obviously, if that's not even going to be there, she's of no use whatsoever in the pros.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 2:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
I know this time-space continuum stuff may be a little deep for someone who struggles with KML/KLM, so I'll try to keep it simple. KML was the perfect choice for SEA.


I appreciate you making the effort to communicate with me at my level.

And yes, however Seattle wound up with Stewart was the right move, no question.

Finally, as for Parker, I'd rather have a tall mediocre player than a shorter one who's not as quick. Neither are all that, granted, but which would you rather have on your roster for tonight's game?



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Shades



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 2:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Shades wrote:
Randy, I think Williams has a higher ceiling than Stokes. They're pretty similar defensively but offensively I'd say Williams has the upper hand. If Williams was working with a PG like Bird, that could have been interesting to see.


Is it time-space continuum or space-time continuum? That confuses me more than deferred picks. I suppose we should ask the expert, JunkieSpace. I also have a feeling Back to the Future was one of his all time favorite movies. Smile


I hope you are right about WIlliams v. Stokes. Williams is already scoring more, and others have said she didn't have a good coach in college. Stokes does seem to be the better rebounder, and blocks are about the same. I'm pretty sure Stokes had good coaching in college.

The profs always used Space-Time Continuum back when I was getting my degrees in Physics.


You have a degree in physics? You should have been the one who made my point about the space-time continuum. Wink

You also have to learn to spot somebody who has an agenda, and determine whether their arguments have much merit based on that.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 2:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Parker's the fourth-choice center behind a clapped-out Erika, a mediocre Dos Santos, and a raw Boyette. I find it hard to see a blind bit of difference between having her hold down the end of the bench or Mosqueda-Lewis doing it.

KML was always something of a gamble pick, similar to the way NBA teams take kids with raw athleticism and a high ceiling over players who've actually produced something in college. Seattle were betting on the possibility that they could get her into better shape, make her a viably mediocre defender, and that her positive skills would translate to the pros. 40 games in, yeah, it's a gamble that hasn't paid off.



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 3:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So wait, I spent a year reading about how the Storm should play KML to let her figure it out and now I have to read about how they shouldn't play KML because she's had enough time to figure it out? Great.

I think she's not playing loose right now. She had the same issue when she came into games last year. This year, she is being given the chance to play and try and find her rhythm. Boucek's already said that she's "looking for the scorers from the bench" which means she's giving her a good half-dozen games to try and get comfortable. She is definitely in better shape and condition than last year. The Storm are still working out the offense and KML is being given a good chance to show how she might fit.

Bust? Well, until Jewell came out this draft was going to vie for worst class ever. I never expected KML to be anything more than a 3 point specialist bench player for a team anyway so can you imagine if she was the top pick? I don't blame anyone for Stokes: if Geno couldn't get her motivated in 4 years, who could have expected that she'd turn it on now? The Liberty had the team to take a chance on a post project and it worked out better than expected. The WNBA is such a step up and the top picks always go to the sub-par teams from last year. So, I personally give everyone 3 years to blossom before I writ them off.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 3:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:


KML was always something of a gamble pick


What? If Loyd hadn't come out early, KML was by most accounts going to be Seattle's first pick -- the #1 overall pick in the draft. A team might "gamble" on a 7 footer with that pick, but on a 5'11" player without a true position? I don't think anyone "gambles" on that with the first pick in the draft. I think they believed she was a sure thing.

Now "misjudgment" might be a fair term for it.


Shades



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 4:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Oh, another player that has come around is Kizer. She was the player of the game for IND last night. She was cut by Tulsa in her first training camp. She shot 18% in the preseason games. Bballfan2005 said she had to go, and gone she went. I liked her cause she was a good rebounder and had the pro body factor, and figured her shooting would improve.

Kizer didn't get a great first opportunity, but I suppose it could be argued in some cases that players need to be cut or traded before they are motivated enough to make things happen for themselves.



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blaase22



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 4:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Someone shold start a AZB thread, it's not happening thread!
AZB had far more hype than KML when she declared and she is getting overshadowed by UCONN bench warmer Stokes too( on the same team) Did she even play a single minute the last two Liberty home games? Laughing


blaase22



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 4:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:


KML was always something of a gamble pick


What? If Loyd hadn't come out early, KML was by most accounts going to be Seattle's first pick -- the #1 overall pick in the draft. A team might "gamble" on a 7 footer with that pick, but on a 5'11" player without a true position? I don't think anyone "gambles" on that with the first pick in the draft. I think they believed she was a sure thing.

Now "misjudgment" might be a fair term for it.


Are you forgetting AZB came out even before Loyd Rolling Eyes Laughing


Michelle89



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 4:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ill give KML some more time. To me she looks in better shape then last season but like Richyyy said she is not even hitting her open shots right now. So might be a confidence thing. Storm are not going anywhere anyway



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Nerd2



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 4:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:


KML was always something of a gamble pick


What? If Loyd hadn't come out early, KML was by most accounts going to be Seattle's first pick -- the #1 overall pick in the draft. A team might "gamble" on a 7 footer with that pick, but on a 5'11" player without a true position? I don't think anyone "gambles" on that with the first pick in the draft. I think they believed she was a sure thing.

Now "misjudgment" might be a fair term for it.


No one thought KML was a "sure thing" that I talked to. She was the most qualified of all the candidates for the #1 pick that year but her downsides were many. Had Seattle been able to trade in that pick for two the following year instead they might have taken that deal. I personally wanted Hamby but in hindsight they knew they had other PF candidates in Bishop and Tokashiki. They also had a hole at the 2 with Monty as the only other known guard option (O'Hea was penciled in as a 3 to back up Clark). So KML was the most qualified to fill the guard slot they had the mot need for. Looking back, I still think it was the best pick based on the player ratings at the time.


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PostPosted: 06/02/16 4:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

KML as a Freshman and Sophomore was devastating !!
Even injured she was scaring teams just sitting there on the bench, UConn was "uconn-ing" without her, and was that much better with her.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/02/16 4:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

blaase22 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:


KML was always something of a gamble pick


What? If Loyd hadn't come out early, KML was by most accounts going to be Seattle's first pick -- the #1 overall pick in the draft. A team might "gamble" on a 7 footer with that pick, but on a 5'11" player without a true position? I don't think anyone "gambles" on that with the first pick in the draft. I think they believed she was a sure thing.

Now "misjudgment" might be a fair term for it.


Are you forgetting AZB came out even before Loyd Rolling Eyes Laughing


No, but it's not at all clear that Zaui would have displaced Lewis from the #1 spot.


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