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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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 Posted: 01/26/19 10:47 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| these still look to me like Dallas is getting too much for a player that wants out, and especially a player who may only play one or two seasons for her new team. If I'm LA, I'm not giving up Nneka and a pick for her...and maybe not even Nneka str8 across. And since Davis didn't get a lot of playing time in Dallas, why does LA want her too? It looks like you're just trying to unload her somewhere. |
I agree with this in theory but
If you are LA or LV and you believe getting Cambage makes you a legit contender for a championship any season she plays (which I believe it does) even if you pay say Ogwumike and #7 or #1 Harrison and Jefferson, than why not role the dice.
Also in my imaginary deals I am trying to hook up Dallas because even though I like Liz I think she is screwing them over, so I really want them to get something decent to continue to build with,
But since this is a Chicago thread I will return to the fact that I don't see why they get involved unless they get Parker or Owumike out of the equation (or at bare minimum Johnson and a pick) to solve the not having a starting PF problem, or there is someone on their roster who also wants out and it hasn't been leaked and they end up in the trade.
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Randy
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tfan
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 01/27/19 12:57 am ::: |
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@J-Spoon,
I like your trade proposal better. At least Dallas gets to keep their 1st rd pk.
| Shades wrote: |
To Zune,
DeShields + Coates = Ogwumike + #7 = Cambage + GJohnson + Davis + #5
Doesn’t look much like a balanced equation. |
I think your right shades...What Chicago is getting back is a bit excessive. The #7 pk in my trade proposal should go to Dallas. I would prefer to exclude our #5 pk from this trade....but I highly doubt that Chicago is going to give up DD without getting back Nneka or Candace...Dallas can probably get a combination of Gabby/Ogwumike without giving up the #5 pk, but I really want DD/Nneka.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 01/27/19 2:45 am ::: |
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| DeShields is arguably Chicago's most valuable asset -- even more important than Vandersloot given their age difference. The Sky are not going to trade her just to grease the wheels for Dallas' Cambage deal -- a trade the Wings desperately need, but the Sky don't. The only way Chicago trades DD is if they get back an all-star or budding all-star. If they need to balance their lineup, then it's Gabby Williams who should be traded. And Dallas fans are overrating Glory Johnson. Her 8 ppg, 6 rpg are OK, but nothing to get overly excited about. Coming with off-court baggage and some on-court moodiness, Johnson's trade value is probably even lower than her numbers would suggest.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010
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| Posted: 01/27/19 3:15 am ::: |
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| Glory is 13p/8r for her career(6 seasons).....14.7 ppg or better 3x...8.9 rpg or better 4x.....I believe last season was more of an aberration. The addition of Cambage reduced Glory's post up opportunities. The emergence of Thornton and drafting of Stevens played a huge role in the reduction of Glory's minutes(22.5). I believe Glory would avg 14p/9r minimum with Chicago, especially playing with a pass-first pg(Sloot) and good passing center(Dolson)...but I also understand not wanting to include DD in a trade unless the Sky are getting Ogwumike or Parker in return.
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DFWub2018
Joined: 24 Aug 2018
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| Posted: 01/27/19 11:37 am ::: |
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root_thing,
Dallas fans aren't necessarily attached to Glory from her on court performance, as much so, but from an emotional standpoint!
Both Glory (about 10 minutes from me) and Skylar actually live here, not just play here, so we all have a different relationship with those two from a fan standpoint, so we take what happens with them a bit more personal!
I'm not really sure what you, and at least one other person that I can remember, keep referring to in relation to her "off the court" issues? The Britney issues were a few YEARS ago and has been an afterthought, so why keep bringing that up as if it were yesterday?
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DFWub2018
Joined: 24 Aug 2018
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| Posted: 01/27/19 11:40 am ::: |
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root_thing,
"On court moodiness," why, because she's a competitor who actually cares and wants to win? I'm confused....
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 01/27/19 12:46 pm ::: |
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As always, I feel way too much value is put into draft picks ... sure, there are some decent players (at the WNBA level) who appear to be available, but giving up a proven WNBA player for draft picks that historically are a roll of the dice makes little sense.
Cambage, though, is also a roll of the dice (and more power to her). She'll play when she feels like playing, and WNBA money isn't really enough to tip the scales dramatically, you wouldn't think.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 01/27/19 12:51 pm ::: |
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| DFWub2018 wrote: |
root_thing,
"On court moodiness," why, because she's a competitor who actually cares and wants to win? I'm confused.... |
I've seen Glory at times go off on her own and seem to not care about what the team is doing. She'll put up bad shots early in the clock, commit frustration fouls or play indifferent defense just because she's pissed off. It's not a case of an outright rebellion which would merit a public rebuke from her coach. It's more like going rogue for short stretches of the game.
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Skyfan22
Joined: 12 Aug 2013
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| Posted: 01/27/19 4:37 pm ::: |
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| DFWub2018 wrote: |
root_thing,
"On court moodiness," why, because she's a competitor who actually cares and wants to win? I'm confused.... |
Oh my gosh,this has been my question for years. She is always amazing with the fans. I’ve never seen a hint of nastiness toward another Wing. All the fans I talk to at the arena have never had a negative thing to say about her. Her family comes to the games and are approachable. This too after last year taking a backseat to the Cam-Dig duo emergence that was compounded with the ineptitude of Fred to figure a way to use her alongside them. This seems like a prime occasion where, if there was nastiness on her part, it would likely have emerged.
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DFWub2018
Joined: 24 Aug 2018
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| Posted: 01/27/19 5:48 pm ::: |
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root_thing,
If you're going to accuse Glory of that, you have to do the same with Skylar and especially Liz because they are both guilty of doing the exact same thing from time to time, even moreso with Liz because she wants to be the center, point guard and run the entire offense thru her, so it's very unfair to only assume Glory plays that way!
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DFWub2018
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| Posted: 01/27/19 5:54 pm ::: |
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Skyfan22,
I couldn't agree more...I have even set two rows behind her family ( even though I'm a season ticket holder, I like to move around sometimes), and they are ALWAYS engaged with the people around them and Glory routinely stops and talks to fans, whereas I've seen Liz look at fans with absolute distain for even having the nerves to speak her name when she walks by!!!
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root_thing
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Skyfan22
Joined: 12 Aug 2013
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| Posted: 01/27/19 11:35 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| DFWub2018 wrote: |
root_thing,
"On court moodiness," why, because she's a competitor who actually cares and wants to win? I'm confused.... |
I've seen Glory at times go off on her own and seem to not care about what the team is doing. She'll put up bad shots early in the clock, commit frustration fouls or play indifferent defense just because she's pissed off. It's not a case of an outright rebellion which would merit a public rebuke from her coach. It's more like going rogue for short stretches of the game. |
Interesting, but hardly the scathing indictment appropriate for the level of criticism she receives routinely on this board. As for individual points her Going off alone may be due to needs of her twins. Furthermore, she’s vacationed with Chong over the all-Star break so that seems to counsel against her rebuking the team. Nearly the whole of the league has been tagged with frustration fouls. Her defense generally is pretty intense and it seems the more annoyed she is the more aggressive she gets. For the Wings, prior to Liz she was asked to anchor the post at a vervslim 6’3, which she did well and hauled down a ton of rebounds with little assist from the rest of the front court. As far as shooting I’ll-advised shots early in the shot-clock, well, that’s kind of the entire Wings game plan.
I’m not trying to invalidate Root_Thing’s thoughts/perceptions of the Glory situation. I’m trying to compare my observations to his/hers and gain a better understanding of the issue. His/hers appears to be the first attempt at measuring the “baggage” that attends Glory. It would be nice to hear from others just what her issues are since my own perceptions, as well as those of all Wings fans who go to games, are so different from those of the posters of this board.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 01/28/19 1:23 am ::: |
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| Skyfan22 wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| DFWub2018 wrote: |
root_thing,
"On court moodiness," why, because she's a competitor who actually cares and wants to win? I'm confused.... |
I've seen Glory at times go off on her own and seem to not care about what the team is doing. She'll put up bad shots early in the clock, commit frustration fouls or play indifferent defense just because she's pissed off. It's not a case of an outright rebellion which would merit a public rebuke from her coach. It's more like going rogue for short stretches of the game. |
Interesting, but hardly the scathing indictment appropriate for the level of criticism she receives routinely on this board. As for individual points her Going off alone may be due to needs of her twins. Furthermore, she’s vacationed with Chong over the all-Star break so that seems to counsel against her rebuking the team. Nearly the whole of the league has been tagged with frustration fouls. Her defense generally is pretty intense and it seems the more annoyed she is the more aggressive she gets. For the Wings, prior to Liz she was asked to anchor the post at a vervslim 6’3, which she did well and hauled down a ton of rebounds with little assist from the rest of the front court. As far as shooting I’ll-advised shots early in the shot-clock, well, that’s kind of the entire Wings game plan.
I’m not trying to invalidate Root_Thing’s thoughts/perceptions of the Glory situation. I’m trying to compare my observations to his/hers and gain a better understanding of the issue. His/hers appears to be the first attempt at measuring the “baggage” that attends Glory. It would be nice to hear from others just what her issues are since my own perceptions, as well as those of all Wings fans who go to games, are so different from those of the posters of this board. |
Let me clarify what I was saying because you're confusing some points and making this into a bigger deal than intended. As far as off-court baggage goes, my reference was solely to things that have been reported in the press in the past, especially during Johnson's time with Griner and immediately after. I have nothing else to say about Glory's off-the-court behavior.
When I said "go off on her own," I meant on the court. There have been times when Johnson looked like she was upset -- whether at teammates, the coach, the referees, whatever -- and she just seemed to ignore everyone else while she worked through her anger. Essentially, Glory would stop caring about the team for maybe half a quarter and do whatever she liked. It was clearly selfish and detrimental to team play. Now, is it possible that other players on the Shock/Wings sometimes indulged in similarly selfish behavior? Yes, given that Dallas/Tulsa hasn't had a lot of success in recent years, selfish play would likely be a contributing factor. However, two wrongs don't make a right -- it doesn't absolve Glory. At any rate, please note the limited context of my original comment. I was only addressing trade value -- not Johnson's character as a whole.
Admittedly, I haven't noticed the bad behavior lately. Maybe Glory has changed. People do grow-up and mature. However, past transgressions can stick in people's memories. As for whether Glory is a nice person or nice to fans, I don't pretend to know. I have no opinion on the matter. We were talking about trade value, and the perception of being high maintenance lowers a player's trade value. That was the only point I was making.
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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| Posted: 01/28/19 5:23 am ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| DFWub2018 wrote: |
root_thing,
"On court moodiness," why, because she's a competitor who actually cares and wants to win? I'm confused.... |
I've seen Glory at times go off on her own and seem to not care about what the team is doing. She'll put up bad shots early in the clock, commit frustration fouls or play indifferent defense just because she's pissed off. It's not a case of an outright rebellion which would merit a public rebuke from her coach. It's more like going rogue for short stretches of the game. |
Agler is the right coach to fix that or she will be traded/sit on the bench if she doesnt buy into his system
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DFWub2018
Joined: 24 Aug 2018
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| Posted: 01/28/19 10:12 am ::: |
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root_thing,
I hear ya.....
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DFWub2018
Joined: 24 Aug 2018
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| Posted: 01/28/19 1:23 pm ::: |
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Skyfan22,
Damn you're good!!!
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DFWub2018
Joined: 24 Aug 2018
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| Posted: 01/28/19 1:28 pm ::: |
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root_thing,
In your defense, I will admit that I know for a fact that Glory and Taj didn't really care for each other's opinions of how they saw things😥
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Skyfan22
Joined: 12 Aug 2013
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| Posted: 01/28/19 1:55 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| Skyfan22 wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| DFWub2018 wrote: |
root_thing,
"On court moodiness," why, because she's a competitor who actually cares and wants to win? I'm confused.... |
I've seen Glory at times go off on her own and seem to not care about what the team is doing. She'll put up bad shots early in the clock, commit frustration fouls or play indifferent defense just because she's pissed off. It's not a case of an outright rebellion which would merit a public rebuke from her coach. It's more like going rogue for short stretches of the game. |
Interesting, but hardly the scathing indictment appropriate for the level of criticism she receives routinely on this board. As for individual points her Going off alone may be due to needs of her twins. Furthermore, she’s vacationed with Chong over the all-Star break so that seems to counsel against her rebuking the team. Nearly the whole of the league has been tagged with frustration fouls. Her defense generally is pretty intense and it seems the more annoyed she is the more aggressive she gets. For the Wings, prior to Liz she was asked to anchor the post at a vervslim 6’3, which she did well and hauled down a ton of rebounds with little assist from the rest of the front court. As far as shooting I’ll-advised shots early in the shot-clock, well, that’s kind of the entire Wings game plan.
I’m not trying to invalidate Root_Thing’s thoughts/perceptions of the Glory situation. I’m trying to compare my observations to his/hers and gain a better understanding of the issue. His/hers appears to be the first attempt at measuring the “baggage” that attends Glory. It would be nice to hear from others just what her issues are since my own perceptions, as well as those of all Wings fans who go to games, are so different from those of the posters of this board. |
Let me clarify what I was saying because you're confusing some points and making this into a bigger deal than intended. As far as off-court baggage goes, my reference was solely to things that have been reported in the press in the past, especially during Johnson's time with Griner and immediately after. I have nothing else to say about Glory's off-the-court behavior.
When I said "go off on her own," I meant on the court. There have been times when Johnson looked like she was upset -- whether at teammates, the coach, the referees, whatever -- and she just seemed to ignore everyone else while she worked through her anger. Essentially, Glory would stop caring about the team for maybe half a quarter and do whatever she liked. It was clearly selfish and detrimental to team play. Now, is it possible that other players on the Shock/Wings sometimes indulged in similarly selfish behavior? Yes, given that Dallas/Tulsa hasn't had a lot of success in recent years, selfish play would likely be a contributing factor. However, two wrongs don't make a right -- it doesn't absolve Glory. At any rate, please note the limited context of my original comment. I was only addressing trade value -- not Johnson's character as a whole.
Admittedly, I haven't noticed the bad behavior lately. Maybe Glory has changed. People do grow-up and mature. However, past transgressions can stick in people's memories. As for whether Glory is a nice person or nice to fans, I don't pretend to know. I have no opinion on the matter. We were talking about trade value, and the perception of being high maintenance lowers a player's trade value. That was the only point I was making. |
Again, not interested in a pissing contest. I’m merely trying to assess why she’s got such a bad rap. A lot of pereceptions by many people on this board seem to want to blackball her. Reading your post seems to corroborate that these assertions are based on rather subjective observations.
I feel that a lot of this is carried over from the debacle with BG. Just curious if there is something more concrete or significant at the core for the continued stance on Glory. I’ve asked repeatedly and I thank Root-Thing for the input, as no one else has stepped forward, at least in my occasional readings on this board, to share any other information.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 01/28/19 2:17 pm ::: |
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| I think if you’re a true Glory fan, it would be best to just let things slide, instead of inviting people to dig up things about Glory Johnson that in her interest would be best forgotten. In other words, you’re doing her more harm than good.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 01/28/19 3:02 pm ::: |
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Since few of us actually know these players, it's going to be mostly subjective observation. 80% of the stuff on this board is opinion or rumor. For instance, posters keep talking about Tina Charles wanting to be traded. I've asked for links to reliable sources that confirm that Tina is unhappy. I haven't received any. Charles being disgruntled is conjecture based on the ownership instability (recently resolved) and the fact that Tina signed a one-year contract. Subsequently, some fan probably put up a post saying "if" Tina wants to be traded, and from there what started as idle musing became established "fact".
As far as Johnson goes, I think a lot of the negative sentiment dates back to her Tennessee days. She and Shekinna Stricklen were both viewed as underachievers when they came out of college. Nonetheless, they were drafted high. With Stricklen, people continued to view her as a disappointment based on performance until recently with CT. Glory was viewed positively at first based on performance, but then all the stuff with Griner occurred. She then exacerbated the situation by showing up late to training camp in 2015, only to bail later because she was pregnant. The whole thing was a circus. So, I believe people are reacting to her entire history going back to college. As I said before, she may be a different person now but those early impressions stay with people. Personally, I don't have strong feelings about Johnson and it was never my intention to express any.
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Skyfan22
Joined: 12 Aug 2013
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| Posted: 01/28/19 7:42 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| I think if you’re a true Glory fan, it would be best to just let things slide, instead of inviting people to dig up things about Glory Johnson that in her interest would be best forgotten. In other words, you’re doing her more harm than good. |
I question the assertion that my desire for information from this site is going to actually damage Glory Johnson in any way. However, I suppose a remote possibility may exist, so I will push no further.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 01/28/19 10:00 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| I think if you’re a true Glory fan, it would be best to just let things slide, instead of inviting people to dig up things about Glory Johnson that in her interest would be best forgotten. In other words, you’re doing her more harm than good. |
Never thought id say this but i agree with shades no shade......
Most of glorys hatred comes from her media scandal and social media behavior in which is very very odd .Its her entire camp that makes it kind of toxic but she has improved over last season. Her attitude was a bit lackluster at times and we all know who she does and doesn't get along with so that's dirt under the rug. Shes a mom supporting her 2 children by playing basketball. That's all i care about to be frank.
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Last edited by WNBA 09 on 01/28/19 11:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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