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Speebs56



Joined: 19 Aug 2015
Posts: 114
Location: Orange county, CA


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PostPosted: 08/29/19 4:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
readyAIMfire53 wrote:
Speebs56 wrote:
"Geno makes his players look capable of anything, but it's a mirage. Time to get real with scouting UConn players."

Seriously? Bird, Taurasi, Charles, Stewie, Maya, Hayes, Nurse, and even Dolson -- all All-Stars and 4 MVPs among them.

Don't paint ALL the UCONN players with the brush of disappointment due to some.



Clearly many UConn players are great players - especially the ones who were #1 coming out of high school into UConn. And clearly Geno does a great job in developing players.


How is it clear he does a great job developing players? He gets the most (and probably is able to select in a lot of cases) USA Basketball U16, U17, U18 players. Odds favor he will have the most WNBA players. Gabby Williams may be the only American UConner who made it to the WNBA without a USA Basketball background. And she came out unprepared to play in the pros - a 5’11” four with no shot (who was a guard in high school). Auriemma also doesn’t have to go very far down the rankings for his non-USA Basketball players.


Gabby Williams is far from alone among American players who went to UConn with no previous USA Basketball background and reached the W

Sue Bird had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn
Swin Cash had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn
Saniya Chong had no USA Basketball experience prior to or after UConn
Willnett Crockett had no USA Basketball experience prior to or after UConn
Kalana Greene had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn
Asjha Jones had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn
Rebecca Lobo had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn
Jessica Moore had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn
Jennifer Rizzotti had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn
Kelly Schumacher had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn
Ketia Swanier had no USA Basketball experience prior to or after UConn
Barbara Turner had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn
Rita Williams had no USA Basketball experience prior to or after UConn
Tamika Williams had no USA Basketball experience prior to or after UConn
Kara Wolters had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn


And arguable, Sue and Swin are the most successful of the lot. Some of the rest had decent WNBA careers -- Ashja, Lobo particularly -- but the others were short timers or hung on as benchers until they either retired or went overseas for good -- Barb Turner comes to mind.

But if you look at the UConn career of Tina Charles - Geno (or his staff) did work to bring Tina up to her potential and it paid off. She was NOT all that as a freshman or sophomore - go back and watch Syl school her in the Fresno regional Tina's sophomore (?) year.

Look at the transformation of Stef Dolson during her UConn career. And whether you think she's a star, she's a yeoman WNBA player, who contributes. Could she be better? Probably. But how many players in the league could you say that about (those that still have a roster spot, defying all the critics)?

I realize some folks just hate UConn and find nothing of value from most of the UConn players (ok - except for Sue and Maya...even the haters have trouble bitching about them, although some will try).


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 7485



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PostPosted: 08/29/19 4:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
readyAIMfire53 wrote:
Speebs56 wrote:
"Geno makes his players look capable of anything, but it's a mirage. Time to get real with scouting UConn players."

Seriously? Bird, Taurasi, Charles, Stewie, Maya, Hayes, Nurse, and even Dolson -- all All-Stars and 4 MVPs among them.

Don't paint ALL the UCONN players with the brush of disappointment due to some.



Clearly many UConn players are great players - especially the ones who were #1 coming out of high school into UConn. And clearly Geno does a great job in developing players.


How is it clear he does a great job developing players? He gets the most (and probably is able to select in a lot of cases) USA Basketball U16, U17, U18 players. Odds favor he will have the most WNBA players. Gabby Williams may be the only American UConner who made it to the WNBA without a USA Basketball background. And she came out unprepared to play in the pros - a 5’11” four with no shot (who was a guard in high school). Auriemma also doesn’t have to go very far down the rankings for his non-USA Basketball players.


Gabby Williams is far from alone among American players who went to UConn with no previous USA Basketball background and reached the W

Sue Bird had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn
Swin Cash had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn
Saniya Chong had no USA Basketball experience prior to or after UConn
Willnett Crockett had no USA Basketball experience prior to or after UConn
Kalana Greene had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn
Asjha Jones had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn
Rebecca Lobo had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn
Jessica Moore had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn
Jennifer Rizzotti had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn
Kelly Schumacher had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn
Ketia Swanier had no USA Basketball experience prior to or after UConn
Barbara Turner had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn
Rita Williams had no USA Basketball experience prior to or after UConn
Tamika Williams had no USA Basketball experience prior to or after UConn
Kara Wolters had no USA Basketball experience prior to UConn


Notice that only one recent rookie player - Saniya Chong - is listed? USA Basketball had no U17 teams prior to 2010 and no U16 team prior to 2009. The U18 team only started assembling every two years after 2004. So a player like Sue Bird was only eligible for the U18 team in 1996 when she was 15. By 2000 she was 19. That issue also applies to her Fab Five peers Swin Cash , Ashja Jones and Tamika Williams. The same thing with the others listed - their only shot was U18 and their birthday had to align. So substitute “Parade All-American” (all of the Fab Five were Parade all-Americans) and the other all-American ratings for the pre-2009 high school players.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 7485



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PostPosted: 08/29/19 5:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Speebs56 wrote:

But if you look at the UConn career of Tina Charles - Geno (or his staff) did work to bring Tina up to her potential and it paid off. She was NOT all that as a freshman or sophomore - go back and watch Syl school her in the Fresno regional Tina's sophomore (?) year.


Tina Charles was a high school National Player of the Year by 4 organizations. Saying she struggled early in college doesn’t help Auriemma.

Quote:
Look at the transformation of Stef Dolson during her UConn career. And whether you think she's a star, she's a yeoman WNBA player, who contributes. Could she be better? Probably. But how many players in the league could you say that about (those that still have a roster spot, defying all the critics)?

I realize some folks just hate UConn and find nothing of value from most of the UConn players (ok - except for Sue and Maya...even the haters have trouble bitching about them, although some will try).


Every school/coach has players who get better. They just start out with average players, not the best of the best.




Last edited by tfan on 08/29/19 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 59827
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 08/29/19 5:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Notice that only one recent rookie player - Saniya Chong - is listed?


Of course. When Geno was coaching Team USA he had access to youth national team players that wouldn't haven been allowed otherwise. I expect many of those players to head to South Carolina in the next few years.



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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 7485



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PostPosted: 08/29/19 7:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
Notice that only one recent rookie player - Saniya Chong - is listed?


Of course. When Geno was coaching Team USA he had access to youth national team players that wouldn't haven been allowed otherwise. I expect many of those players to head to South Carolina in the next few years.


Auriemma is listed as having coached the 2000 USA Junior World Championship Qualifying Team (U18). His other USA Basketball duties were with adult teams. How did that give him access to youth national team members?


Davis4632



Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 591



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PostPosted: 08/29/19 11:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Speebs56 wrote:

But if you look at the UConn career of Tina Charles - Geno (or his staff) did work to bring Tina up to her potential and it paid off. She was NOT all that as a freshman or sophomore - go back and watch Syl school her in the Fresno regional Tina's sophomore (?) year.


Tina Charles was a high school National Player of the Year by 4 organizations. Saying she struggled early in college doesn’t help Auriemma.

Quote:
Look at the transformation of Stef Dolson during her UConn career. And whether you think she's a star, she's a yeoman WNBA player, who contributes. Could she be better? Probably. But how many players in the league could you say that about (those that still have a roster spot, defying all the critics)?

I realize some folks just hate UConn and find nothing of value from most of the UConn players (ok - except for Sue and Maya...even the haters have trouble bitching about them, although some will try).


Every school/coach has players who get better. They just start out with average players, not the best of the best.


Dolson was ranked 39th in Hoopgurlz and was the 2nd ranked center of her class.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 7485



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PostPosted: 08/30/19 11:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Davis4632 wrote:
tfan wrote:


Quote:
Look at the transformation of Stef Dolson during her UConn career. And whether you think she's a star, she's a yeoman WNBA player, who contributes. Could she be better? Probably. But how many players in the league could you say that about (those that still have a roster spot, defying all the critics)?

I realize some folks just hate UConn and find nothing of value from most of the UConn players (ok - except for Sue and Maya...even the haters have trouble bitching about them, although some will try).


Every school/coach has players who get better. They just start out with average players, not the best of the best.


Dolson was ranked 39th in Hoopgurlz and was the 2nd ranked center of her class.


She was also on the 2010 USA Basketball U18 team. Someone once said that while it was true that Auriemma got the Maya Moore and Tina Charles level players, he also got players like Dolson and Kelly Faris and made them really good. Looking up their high school accolades is when I noticed how many USA Baskeball players UConn was getting. Kelly Faris was also on a USA Basketball U18 team - 2008.


CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 17948
Location: Phoenix


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PostPosted: 08/30/19 2:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Davis4632 wrote:
Dolson was ranked 39th in Hoopgurlz and was the 2nd ranked center of her class.


She was also on the 2010 USA Basketball U18 team. Someone once said that while it was true that Auriemma got the Maya Moore and Tina Charles level players, he also got players like Dolson and Kelly Faris and made them really good. Looking up their high school accolades is when I noticed how many USA Baskeball players UConn was getting. Kelly Faris was also on a USA Basketball U18 team - 2008.


Recruiting Rankings for Stefanie Dolson (2010):
#12 -- All Star Girls Report (ASGR)
#24 -- Blue Star Report
#39 -- ESPN/Hoopgurlz

Recruiting Rankings for Kelly Faris (2009):
#9 -- All Star Girls Report (ASGR)
#9 -- Blue Star Report
#34 -- ESPN/Hoopgurlz

Dolson was also a McDonald's All-American (as was Kelly Faris, incidentally).


Rock Hard



Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 3469
Location: Chocolate Paradise


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PostPosted: 09/02/19 6:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My apologies for being negative about Ms. Ndour. She has performed well with Lavender being out with her injury. I believe she has earned a significant increase on her next contract. I won't say she deserves a max contract but I would definitely offer her a contract higher than Dolson. Very Happy



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Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 9422



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PostPosted: 09/02/19 10:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hey Rock- would you take E Williams for dolson or Lavender?


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 52629



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PostPosted: 09/02/19 11:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Hey Rock- would you take E Williams for dolson or Lavender?


Heck yeah.



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root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 5264
Location: Underground


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PostPosted: 09/02/19 12:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Hey Rock- would you take E Williams for dolson or Lavender?


If the Megdal spreadsheet is correct, you can trade Williams for Lavender but Dolson will be a UFA. Coring Stefanie would mean Chicago has to commit to a multi-year, max contract. Note that Sloot and Quigley are also UFAs, although they have stated their commitment to Chicago and may not need coring. There is a new CBA coming, but while the free agent rules might get loosened, I haven't seen anyone predict they'll become more strict. Therefore, you have a shot at signing Dolson for free.



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And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
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And the crowd that has come
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Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 09/02/19 12:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Players are cored for a single year all the time.



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toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 20388



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PostPosted: 09/02/19 1:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Hey Rock- would you take E Williams for dolson or Lavender?


Williams had a terrible year, so I doubt Wade considers this trade at all. He's actually had Dolson have her best season as a Sky member.



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Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 52629



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PostPosted: 09/02/19 1:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Randy wrote:
Hey Rock- would you take E Williams for dolson or Lavender?


Williams had a terrible year, so I doubt Wade considers this trade at all. He's actually had Dolson have her best season as a Sky member.


She’s lacked consistency, but there may be a good reason behind that.

ATL fans were acting like Dantas was no big deal, so the Lynx made her into a more than capable starter.



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root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 09/02/19 1:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Players are cored for a single year all the time.


You're right, I was thinking about the signing side. Still, you'd have to give her max for the year and maybe contend with an unhappy player.



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Even now by the gate with your long hair blowing
And the colors of the day that lie along your arms
You must barter your life to make sure you are living
And the crowd that has come
You give them the colors
And the bells and wind and the dream
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 59827
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 09/07/19 5:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Samuelson’s mom calls out Sky coach James Wade

https://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-sky-and-wnba/2019/9/7/20854585/wnba-news-katie-lou-samuelsons-mom-calls-out-sky-coach-james-wade-on-twitter

Quote:
“If only he would cut her like Chloe [Jackson], she would be better off.”



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ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 09/07/19 5:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Interesting ...

But I don't know if it means anything. Wade has done a good job, and it's possible he's done so while mishandling Samuelson. It's also possible he's handled Samuelson exactly right in terms of what works for the Sky.

As he points out, moms will stand up for their kids, right or wrong. If parents don't believe in their children, who will?



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toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 09/07/19 6:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sky have a deep bench. Her injury just pushed her further down the rotation with Copper basically covering SG/SF.



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Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 322
Location: Seattle, WA


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PostPosted: 09/07/19 6:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Samuelson’s mom calls out Sky coach James Wade

https://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-sky-and-wnba/2019/9/7/20854585/wnba-news-katie-lou-samuelsons-mom-calls-out-sky-coach-james-wade-on-twitter

Quote:
“If only he would cut her like Chloe [Jackson], she would be better off.”


Did “Mother Jones” really need to go public with this?
Also, it’s not like the Sky are struggling or in a rebuilding year. Why would Wade mess with a rotation that has been working for the team essentially the whole season? To me it doesn’t matter that the KLS pick was a bit of a head-scratcher considering their personnel at the time. Sounds really freaking entitled to just demand playing time for your daughter like this, especially at a time like this too going into the playoffs. Not a good look all around for this momager-like parent.


mavcarter
#NAPT


Joined: 02 Sep 2010
Posts: 5095
Location: Chicago


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PostPosted: 09/07/19 6:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
“I don’t have a contract with her mother, I have a contract with her,” Wade said.


Exclamation

I’ll be surprised if Samuelson is on the roster next season.



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Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 9422



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PostPosted: 09/07/19 6:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Does Mother Jones think this is the 7th grade or something? I'm betting Chloe Jackson doesn't feel like she is better off having been cut.....


shontay33



Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 348



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PostPosted: 09/07/19 6:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
pilight wrote:
Samuelson’s mom calls out Sky coach James Wade

https://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-sky-and-wnba/2019/9/7/20854585/wnba-news-katie-lou-samuelsons-mom-calls-out-sky-coach-james-wade-on-twitter

Quote:
“If only he would cut her like Chloe [Jackson], she would be better off.”


Did “Mother Jones” really need to go public with this?
Also, it’s not like the Sky are struggling or in a rebuilding year. Why would Wade mess with a rotation that has been working for the team essentially the whole season? To me it doesn’t matter that the KLS pick was a bit of a head-scratcher considering their personnel at the time. Sounds really freaking entitled to just demand playing time for your daughter like this, especially at a time like this too going into the playoffs. Not a good look all around for this momager-like parent.


Typical crazy parent. Maybe she needs to be reminded that this is the pros not AAU, Highschool or even college. Her and her representative may need to have a discussion with”Mother Jones” before this ends up being her daughters first and last year in the WNBA!


toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 20388



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PostPosted: 09/07/19 7:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Does Mother Jones think this is the 7th grade or something? I'm betting Chloe Jackson doesn't feel like she is better off having been cut.....


Jackson did get paid for the entire season as she was cut after the guaranteed contract deadline. She'll just miss out on any playoff bonuses.



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adamj95



Joined: 09 May 2014
Posts: 1729
Location: East Grand Forks, MN


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PostPosted: 09/07/19 8:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Anyone else notice KLS’s mom tweeted “@arike_o ROY”

Isn’t that kind of odd knowing how close KLS and Collier are?



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