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Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 08/20/18 7:29 am    ::: Indiana Fever 2019 Reply Reply with quote

A lot needs to be done. Starts with winning the lottery, or getting at least No. 2


sigur3



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: 08/20/18 8:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Still need:

a rim protector
a low post presence
a distributing PG
a perimeter defender
another shooter

Quite a laundry list. I think I would take Brown if the Aces or Liberty don't first, but obviously there's an entire season of college basketball to be played before that.


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 08/20/18 8:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Interesting that any remotely advanced stat says that Achonwa was their best player this season, by quite a significant margin. Did it very quietly.

I think it's time to move on from both Dupree and Pondexter, personally. Even if you can't find anyone to give you anything for Dupree, just swallow it and move on. She just doesn't make you better. Cappie's just doing an older version of what KMitchell can do anyway, so what's the point? Keep her around if you must for whatever off-court benefit she brings, but she can't keep playing as much as she did in the second half of this season.



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Rock Hard



Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 08/20/18 10:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sigur3 wrote:
Still need:

a rim protector
a low post presence
a distributing PG
a perimeter defender
another shooter

Quite a laundry list. I think I would take Brown if the Aces or Liberty don't first, but obviously there's an entire season of college basketball to be played before that.

That's a whole new squad! Laughing



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PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 08/20/18 1:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You have to get rid of Pokey. Period. Full stop. This can't even be up for discussion. This team lacks talent, but looked worse than the sum of it's parts for large chunks of games and the season. Then, bringing in Cappie and relying on her to such an extent tells me that Pokey is either unwilling or unable to develop and build a team with young players. I don't think much of her as a coach in general, but she is clearly the wrong coach for the Fever right now.

I wonder if any team wants Dupree. I would trade her for just about anything. If not, maybe keep her, if you have a coach who is willing to bring her off the bench and if she is willing to do so.

Cappie and Wheeler both need to go, IMO. Neither is bringing anything of real value to this team and neither is a building block for the future. You know you have to be rid of Wheeler by the time this team is successful, so why keep her now?

I wonder if Tiffany Mitchell has any value on the market? She continue to have moments, but I don't see what her role is with the team moving forward and she might be one of the only players with any sort of trade value.

There is a youngish core that might have some ability to win a few more games (Vivians, K Mitchell, Johnsons, Achonwa, Brown of McCown), but this team is still a draft or two from doing anything.


shontay33



Joined: 01 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: 08/20/18 1:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="PUmatty"]You have to get rid of Pokey. Period. Full stop. This can't even be up for discussion. This team lacks talent, but looked worse than the sum of it's parts for large chunks of games and the season. Then, bringing in Cappie and relying on her to such an extent tells me that Pokey is either unwilling or unable to develop and build a team with young players. I don't think much of her as a coach in general, but she is clearly the wrong coach for the Fever right now.

I wonder if any team wants Dupree. I would trade her for just about anything. If not, maybe keep her, if you have a coach who is willing to bring her off the bench and if she is willing to do so.

Cappie and Wheeler both need to go, IMO. Neither is bringing anything of real value to this team and neither is a building block for the future. You know you have to be rid of Wheeler by the time this team is successful, so why keep her now?

I wonder if Tiffany Mitchell has any value on the market? She continue to have moments, but I don't see what her role is with the team moving forward and she might be one of the only players with any sort of trade value.

There is a youngish core that might have some ability to win a few more games (Vivians, K Mitchell, Johnsons, Achonwa, Brown of McCown), but this team is still a draft or two from doing anything

1. This is a very young team with lots of potential.
2. What better coaching candidates are out there?
3. Johnson was out all season. She would have given us another scorer which would have meant that Vivians could have eased into her role coming off the bench.
4. I do agree that we need a true point guard. However, that is non existent in today’s WNBA. I thought Wheeler did a good job at that position.

5 . I also agree that we need a center with some size.

Overall, it takes patience especially with a young team. I as a Fever diehard, I am willing to wait because patience with this young core will pay off if no one gets injured.


Rock Hard



Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 08/20/18 1:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The WNBA is in a position where they cannot offer head coaches the same amount of money that division one colleges can offer head coaches. With that fact up front finding top level coaching talent will most times be difficult. I have learned to not suggest the removal of a head coach unless there is a credible qualified talent available to take the job.

Changing coaches to just change coaches you never know what you might get. Prime example is the voluptuous Amber Stocks. Very Happy



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sigur3



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: 08/20/18 2:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:

I wonder if Tiffany Mitchell has any value on the market? She continue to have moments, but I don't see what her role is with the team moving forward and she might be one of the only players with any sort of trade value.


6th woman. I think the role would suit her well, provided the starting lineup is actually good.


myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
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PostPosted: 08/20/18 3:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

By far the biggest need is a true big. Brown would be my choice. Maybe move Achonwa to the 4. Keep Dupree, especially if you think she might bring Bonner with her. Until you have someone better, what's the hurry to ditch her? Having Cappie is just plain a mistake. Yeah she can score if she takes 20 shots/game but that's not what is needed. ['veteran leadership' is just a meaningless phrase] VViv has shown she can play the three. S. Johnson can start at two (assuming healthy) and backup the three. T. Mitchell can back up the two. K. Mitchell can maybe play the one if she can be convinced that she doesn't have to be the #1 option on offense every time down the floor.

Have never thought Pokey was a good coach and still don't. I suspect they will be in the lottery again next year. Perhaps that will be enough to make them into a respectable team.



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CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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Location: Phoenix


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PostPosted: 08/20/18 3:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
By far the biggest need is a true big. Brown would be my choice. Maybe move Achonwa to the 4. Keep Dupree, especially if you think she might bring Bonner with her. Until you have someone better, what's the hurry to ditch her?


Indiana needs a dominant post presence and a much better playmaker at the point.

But in response to myrtyle's comment, a better question is whether Achonwa can play the four. Dupree offers a great midrange shot from the free throw line, from the baseline, from the elbow, etc. Does Achonwa have that shot (and the consistency with which Dupree can hit it) in her repertoire?


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 08/20/18 4:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Ionescu comes out, they could get a PG ...



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sigur3



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: 08/20/18 4:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
myrtle wrote:
By far the biggest need is a true big. Brown would be my choice. Maybe move Achonwa to the 4. Keep Dupree, especially if you think she might bring Bonner with her. Until you have someone better, what's the hurry to ditch her?


Indiana needs a dominant post presence and a much better playmaker at the point.

But in response to myrtyle's comment, a better question is whether Achonwa can play the four. Dupree offers a great midrange shot from the free throw line, from the baseline, from the elbow, etc. Does Achonwa have that shot (and the consistency with which Dupree can hit it) in her repertoire?


No, but not many do.


PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 08/20/18 4:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
If Ionescu comes out, they could get a PG ...


But there is no indication that she will come out. It's possible, but there is no reason to expect it.

If so, I am sure she is the No. 1 pick for whoever has it.


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 08/20/18 4:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

For what it's worth, Achonwa was more accurate from outside 10ft than Dupree was this season (.436 vs .396), albeit on far fewer attempts (94 vs 255). But then, you also have to factor in that Achonwa actually plays defense. Dupree's become one of the most overrated players in this league.



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ucbart



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 1356
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PostPosted: 08/21/18 1:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
ClayK wrote:
If Ionescu comes out, they could get a PG ...


But there is no indication that she will come out. It's possible, but there is no reason to expect it.

If so, I am sure she is the No. 1 pick for whoever has it.


If Ionescu does come out and Chicago gets the pick. Do you...

1. Trade Sloot and get some help that you need at another position?
2. Trade Quigley and play Sloot and Ionescu together?
3. Ionescu is a lead guard and playmaker, but Chicago actually has one of the best PG's in the W.


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 08/21/18 1:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

4. Keep all three - Quigley's already 32 and won't go on forever - and hire a decent coach to manage the rotation.

Top-class 'lead guards' can still play with quality point guards. Taurasi goes on about how much she loves Sue Bird, and has happily played with her with UConn and TeamUSA for about 20 years.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 08/21/18 1:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ucbart wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
ClayK wrote:
If Ionescu comes out, they could get a PG ...


But there is no indication that she will come out. It's possible, but there is no reason to expect it.

If so, I am sure she is the No. 1 pick for whoever has it.


If Ionescu does come out and Chicago gets the pick. Do you...

1. Trade Sloot and get some help that you need at another position?
2. Trade Quigley and play Sloot and Ionescu together?
3. Ionescu is a lead guard and playmaker, but Chicago actually has one of the best PG's in the W.


You plan to draft Ionescu and see what you can get for each on the market. You don't give up an asset that valuable and, say, pick Brown instead because she fills a need.

To be honest, Vandersloot is a very good point guard who has never led a team to success. She seems to be a very good point guard to be second banana, but I question whether she is the piece to build around. If you could trade her for another high quality piece (something along the lines of, I don't know, Elizabeth Williams and a draft pick), I'd move on.

I don't know that it's the right decision, but I might make it.


Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 08/21/18 3:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SO 3 guards who don't play any defense, interesting Laughing


zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
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PostPosted: 08/23/18 2:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Fever have too many tweeners/Players playing out of position(Achonwa,Mitchell,Wheeler).....Depending on who they draft.I wouldn't be surprised if K.Mitchell gets traded on the day of the draft.Pokey signing Cappie and demoting Mitchell back to the bench in favor of Wheeler was not a show of confidence.A #2 pick getting traded after their rookie season is rare(Zahui b)...but Mitchell isn't exactly your quintessential PG or SG....And yeah,Diggins was/is a shoot first PG,and similar to Kelsey,lost her starters job...However,Skylar is taller and has better court vision than Kelsey.Also,SD during her rookie season had a shot/asst ratio of about 2.3 to 1(271 fg att/123 asst)...Mitchell had a shot/asst ratio of 4.4 to 1(410 fg att/92 asst)

Hypothetical:


Indiana gets the 3rd pk...McCowen/Brown are off the board...Indy drafts Durr...The Fever already have Vivians & Johnson...adding Durr would really limit the minutes of both Mitchells........Kelsey Mitchell getting traded to Phoenix,LA or Minnesota is very plausible.

Possible trades:

1.Gulich,Turner,Mercury 1st rd pk for Mitchell.

2.Fagbenie.A.Jones and Lynx 1st rd pk for Mitchell & Achonwa.

3.Lavender,2019 1st rd pick and future 1st pk for K.Mitchell.




Last edited by zune69 on 08/23/18 10:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
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PostPosted: 08/23/18 10:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Indy gets the 3rd pick, they have been screwed royally.



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SO ...I lost a bet with Rock about how many wins Chicago would get this year. My punishment - T. Young as my avatar. Well it could be worse!
WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: 08/23/18 10:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
If Indy gets the 3rd pick, they have been screwed royally.


All the way with no lube ____ Crying or Very sad



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Randy



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PostPosted: 08/23/18 10:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
myrtle wrote:
If Indy gets the 3rd pick, they have been screwed royally.


All the way with no lube ____ Crying or Very sad


And if that happens, next summer when Indy is still terrible people will say it's Pokey fault and she should be fired. Rolling Eyes


Shades



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PostPosted: 08/23/18 11:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
If Indy gets the 3rd pick, they have been screwed royally.


The odds of Indy getting the third pick are about the same as the Liberty getting one of the first two picks.... meager.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 08/23/18 11:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Pokey has some sort of mandate to get wins and compete for a lower playoff spot this is what I think you're looking at

get #1 or #2 pick

retain the old lady brigade

K. Mitchell/Wheeler
Pondexter/T. Mitchell/pick #25
S. Johnson/Vivians
Dupree/Mavunga
K. Brown or T. McCowan/Achonwa/Alexander

The good news that team doesn't completely suck, the bad news that team isn't very good probably falls somewhere in the 7-10 range in the rankings if the lottery picks develop and the vets stay healthy.


RavenDog



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PostPosted: 08/25/18 1:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dupree is a solid player and can help any team, however, on Indiana, she was and will again be a "progression inhibitor", i.e., just like Pondexter. Playing these two, in hopes of winning a few games was and is detrimental to the development of the younger inexperienced players who have a future within the team and WNBA. They need the playing time not watching old relics. They can watch them on recordings.

2019 will be another building year for Indy. One player will not be enough. So, getting KLS or one of the bigs will be a plus.


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