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2019 WNBA Mock Draft
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Shades



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 1:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Plum was no PG at Washington until Jazmin Davis graduated. Four years later she’s a WNBA PG and nobody disputes it. Plum has admitted that Ionescu is way ahead of her at the same age. What’s the controversy?



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Randy



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 1:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:

Ionescu CANNOT declare early.


Care to explain? Why all the talk that she can?


SpaceJunkie



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 1:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Shades wrote:

Ionescu CANNOT declare early.


Care to explain? Why all the talk that she can?


I think he's saying he's afraid of Reeve trading championships to the Aces for Ionesu, considering she probably still thinks her trading championship(s) to the Storm for a 2nd round pick was a great idea, because he's one of the rare Lynx fans who prefers the Lynx winning for themselves versus winning for other teams. Smile


Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 1:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Randy wrote:
If she can "hang with them" why did she get sent home in favor of Clarendon and Plum? Also there were comments around her that she looked a bit slow. Sounds like she needs more time.


The question would be whether more time would make her faster or quicker ...

Now if the issue is decision-making, then more time obviously will be a benefit, but I'm not sure that's the case here.


I think pace can be worked on. She's been used to being 'deliberate' and that has some advantages [EDD should be the spokeswoman for deliberate] but she clearly needs to work on change of pace. And actually I believe there are exercises which can help foot speed as well. Of course she'll never be a DRob or Canada in terms of quickness. But then Byrd doesn't have it either so clearly its not necessary in order to be a great PG. Like Plum, Ionescu will have to work on defense. I would question why everyone thinks she will be a PG however. On her own team Cazorla is the PG and makes everyone around her better. Ionescu gets a lot of assists but I think part of that is just having Cazorla on the floor with her....like it would be interesting to know how many hockey assists come thru Cazorla. Anyway, it will be a fun team to watch this year.


THIS I totally agree. Cazorla is their key IMO she manages the offense and plays D especially when the team needs it. I think stats can be padded in garbage time which have skewed a perception of who the PG is BUT it is Carzola when they need something run and to get the ball in the right place.

Plum was always quicker in college and she had change of pace which is why she got so many calls, she was also a better shooter, true that she couldn't play D tho' Laughing


root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 1:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Plum was no PG at Washington until Jazmin Davis graduated. Four years later she’s a WNBA PG and nobody disputes it. Plum has admitted that Ionescu is way ahead of her at the same age. What’s the controversy?


Which means Plum at least got to play PG for 2 seasons before coming into the WNBA. Ionescu won't have a chance unless she stays her senior year. But that's not even the point. If people are saying that Ionescu is too slow to play PG, the reality is that she's currently playing SG and can stay there. That's less of an option for Plum because she's only 5-8 (maybe) and the lack of height is a liability when defending at SG.

Folks, it's not like the draft is tomorrow. Ionescu still has at least one college season ahead of her. That qualifies as "more time." In the end, for those on track academically, the difference between graduating at 22 and graduating at 23 is usually an accident of birth. It depends on whether you grew up in a region where they start kindergarten at 5 years old or 6. Unless you think basketball development works in lockstep with academic levels, I don't see what's the big deal with Ionescu coming out. All young players can get better, but it doesn't mean they have to stay in college to get better. It's just a matter of whether you'll be prepared enough for the transition. It sounds like Ionescu is close now, so she should be ready after another full season.



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Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 2:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not sure of your point she will be 22 and older than some in the senior class now.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 2:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Plum has admitted that Ionescu is way ahead of her at the same age. What’s the controversy?


For one thing, what makes Plum a better predictor of Ionescu's professional point guard prospects than anyone else -- such as us - who have watched Ionescu's career in high school, USA Basketball and college?

I distinctly recall Sue Bird on TV commenting on the wonderful point guard pro potential of Sydney Wiese, in part because of her great point guard height and deadly outside shooting. Indeed, the 6'-0" Wiese hit more career three-pointers in college than the 5'-8" Plum (373, a Pac12 record, vs. 343) and at a much higher 3FG% (.437 vs. .382). Wiese also out-assisted Plum, 4.8 APG vs. 3.8 for their college careers. If Ionescu is better than Wiese, we can probably predict she would be somewhat ahead of Wiese's last place spot on the Sparks' bench.

Count me as one who is not yet convinced that Ionescu will be an elite pro. Not only does she lack impressive speed and quickness, I don't think her rebounding effectiveness will translate to the pros. As to whether she is "really" a point guard, obviously she can play the position, even if she doesn't always, and she did win the Nancy Lieberman Point Guard Award.
Shades



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 2:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don’t think I’ve ever seen Ionescu referenced as a SG probably because she too skilled to be considered as “just a SG”. She’s a SG in the future just because Cazorla is the PG now? I think Cazorla is the PG because she can do it but she’s not a good enough scorer to be the off guard. Ionescu would be the PG and a way better one than Cazorla if there was a better option at SG. It’s kinda like Niya Johnson and Sims were both PG’s, but who are you going to run off the ball? It’s similar to that but not exactly because Niya was a great facilitator.

Stats for last year
Ionescu 298 ast/114 TO... 1353 min
Cazorla 179 ast/76 TO...... 1202 min



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Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 2:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Then you haven't watched OR enough, I guess Gabby Williams was the PG on Uconn last year according to your argument Laughing

However, the minutes are very telling considering that they had a deep bench and there was no reason for anyone to play that many minutes Wink

Try to catch some of the 3x3 that they lost early in as it is a good indicator of lack of speed and ball handling capabilities.


pilight



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 2:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ionescu = Lindsay Whalen
Cazorla = Shannon Schonrock



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Shades



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 2:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Ionescu = Lindsay Whalen
Cazorla = Shannon Schonrock


Your similarity scores told you that? I guess most people would want Whalen.



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Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 3:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

No comparison to Whalen, everyone would want Whalen Laughing


Shades



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 3:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
No comparison to Whalen, everyone would want Whalen


Except maybe that person who insists speed is important when evaluating Ionescu.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 3:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
pilight wrote:
Ionescu = Lindsay Whalen
Cazorla = Shannon Schonrock


Your similarity scores told you that? I guess most people would want Whalen.


No, people were making the same argument about Whalen not being a PG. She was too slow, didn't have a good enough handle, and Schonrock initiated the offense for the Gophers.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 3:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Ionescu does come out any chance LV takes a big and NY could get Sabrina at #2?


ClayK



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 3:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Think about it. What if Laimbeer offered Ionescu (Reeve’s future Whalen), Harrison (some much-needed post help), and a first round pick in 2020 for Maya? Reeve’s trigger finger would probably get itchy.

Just think, Laimbeer doesn’t lose anybody that he’s coached on the current squad (so he won’t miss them), but he gains Maya. OMG

Ionescu CANNOT declare early. Reeve is probably way to weak to turn down a deal like that.


Unless we've all read the rules wrong, she can. She will turn 22 in December 2019 -- doesn't that make her eligible?

As for PG, Sabrina herself says Cazorla is better than her at the pick-and-roll, and others have told me Cazorla is truly a marvel at running that. That said, Ionescu can certainly learn to run the pick-and-roll and has had the ball in her hands at every level up to now -- and that includes high-level high school and club ball.

Here's the best thing about Sabrina: All she wants to do is win, and whatever path leads to that outcome is the one she will take -- and she will drag her teammates on that road with her.

She made USA Basketball teams because she was willing to take on whatever role was required; she helped Oregon by acknowledging that Cazorla was better at running the Oregon offense; and she helped her high school and club teams by handling the ball and scoring.

Legitimate questions can and should be asked about how well she'll be able to defend and if she can keep up with the speed of the WNBA, but we won't know the answers to those questions until she gets to the league. But if you like winning, and you think Ionescu can handle things athletically, she's the one you want.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 3:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
No comparison to Whalen, everyone would want Whalen Laughing


In 2004 not everyone wanted Whalen. She was the consensus No. 4 pick (which I thought was ludicrous) and some even thought she was reach at that position.


Shades



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 3:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
If Ionescu does come out any chance LV takes a big and NY could get Sabrina at #2?


Any chance that’s why Root is eager for her to declare? Glad you brought it up so I wouldn’t have to. Wink



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 3:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Not sure of your point she will be 22 and older than some in the senior class now.


That is sort of my point. People seem inclined to think that players should leave when they graduate. However, the year in which you graduate is determined by things not related to basketball.

As for the PG argument, I'm not saying Ionescu can't or shouldn't play PG. All I'm pointing out is that Megdal has her switching to PG and then he finds people who say she might be too slow. But why does she have to switch to PG? At 5-11, Sabrina is a perfect size to play SG. It's not like she's a 5-7 SG who needs to transition to PG in order to survive at the next level. In other words, it seems like he's projecting an unnecessary change just so he can find someone to knock her. That's criticism based on something that hasn't happened and doesn't need to happen.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 4:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:
No comparison to Whalen, everyone would want Whalen Laughing


In 2004 not everyone wanted Whalen. She was the consensus No. 4 pick (which I thought was ludicrous) and some even thought she was reach at that position.


There was no shortage of people who thought Chandi Jones had better potential. When the Sun traded Pee Wee Johnson to move up for Whalen, most people thought San Antonio got the better end of the deal.



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 5:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:
No comparison to Whalen, everyone would want Whalen Laughing


In 2004 not everyone wanted Whalen. She was the consensus No. 4 pick (which I thought was ludicrous) and some even thought she was reach at that position.


There was no shortage of people who thought Chandi Jones had better potential. When the Sun traded Pee Wee Johnson to move up for Whalen, most people thought San Antonio got the better end of the deal.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 7:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
If Ionescu does come out any chance LV takes a big and NY could get Sabrina at #2?


Yes. I was a Plum-doubter but she really improved this year and proved me wrong. LV needs a post way more than they need Ionescu. Of course, all this speculation depends on what kind of seasons McCowan, Brown, and Ionescu have, and what Harrison's status is next spring, and whether AFO thinks using Ionescu as trade-bait will gain a better post than drafting one.




Last edited by FrozenLVFan on 09/11/18 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
PUmatty



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 9:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I haven't seen Collier as much as I should, but her sticking around with Team USA has me wondering about her. Is there a chance she competes with the bigs for the first two spots? A chance she is the best of the rest after the two bigs?


root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/11/18 11:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
I haven't seen Collier as much as I should, but her sticking around with Team USA has me wondering about her. Is there a chance she competes with the bigs for the first two spots? A chance she is the best of the rest after the two bigs?


In my view, Collier is currently a middle 1st Round pick in the 5-8 range. I think Napheesa is still with Team USA simply because Staley likes her a lot. Dawn had Collier on both her U18 and U19 teams. In each case, Staley played Collier the second most minutes. Looking at some of the other Team USA choices -- like keeping the two Mitchells over DeShields -- they're clearly not basing it on who is the best individual player at the moment. So, I wouldn't read too much into how the college players have fared.



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Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 09/12/18 1:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:
Not sure of your point she will be 22 and older than some in the senior class now.


That is sort of my point. People seem inclined to think that players should leave when they graduate. However, the year in which you graduate is determined by things not related to basketball.

As for the PG argument, I'm not saying Ionescu can't or shouldn't play PG. All I'm pointing out is that Megdal has her switching to PG and then he finds people who say she might be too slow. But why does she have to switch to PG? At 5-11, Sabrina is a perfect size to play SG. It's not like she's a 5-7 SG who needs to transition to PG in order to survive at the next level. In other words, it seems like he's projecting an unnecessary change just so he can find someone to knock her. That's criticism based on something that hasn't happened and doesn't need to happen.


Oh I get you. Yeah really doesn't matter except either position she is pretty slow.


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