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Sun @ Sky - 8/10/18
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Who will win this game?
Sun
62%
 62%  [ 10 ]
Sky
37%
 37%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 16

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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 8:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sigur3 wrote:
PickledGinger wrote:
Sloot (once again) cemented herself in history with that performance. Her employer helping her get there is not cruel to the opposition.

It all business people.


This reminds me...I strongly dislike Stocks but Sloot having the two best years of her career under her is not a coincidence. She has Chicago playing really fast and most of the offense runs through the point guard (trading a massive ball-stopping forward has something to do with it too, but still). The offense the team runs is conducive to point guard assists. No more Quigley at PG either which also helps. Credit given where it is due.

I mean...last night was clearly anomalous. The Sky's eFG was north of 60%. You need to make shots to record assists. But Sloot's always had this in her.


As a somewhat objective fan of another team I think Stocks’ play design is solid. Slooty and Quigley both score and produce points with efficiency without having the ball a ton. They each handle the ball in positions on the floor that work. Williams and Dolson similarly get shots from places on the floor where they are the most functional. DD can score from anywhere so it works for her too.

Ultimately the question becomes how well does Stocks make adjustments (they handled Dallas’ pressure very poorly last week) and how much of the defensive problems are her fault? To me, Dolson is out of shape and with that in play, I don’t think any coach could get this team to play better D.



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 8:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I watched the game, it was competitive late in the 4th Period with the Sun attempting a comeback. I guess Miller wanted Stocks to tell her team to stop playing so the Sun could comeback and win the game. If Stocks wanted Vandersloot to get the assists record I'm sure Vandersloot and her teammates appreciate it.

I notice Miller a white male coach was screaming at a black woman coach, would Miller have done his screaming at a opposing coach that wasn't a black female coach ?




Last edited by SportsGuru on 08/11/18 9:01 am; edited 1 time in total
RP



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 8:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The absence of a certain player has helped Sloot in terms of assists, but that's also come with more turnovers. Sky had league-low turnover rates in 2015 and 2016 and have since had the highest. Per 36, Sloot still averaged 14 and 7 in those final two seasons with Delle Donne. The most significant change is that she has continued to improve as a shooter, which is independent of who's not there.


SpaceJunkie



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 9:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SportsGuru wrote:
I watched the game, it was competitive late in the 4th Period with the Sun attempting a comeback. I guess Miller wanted Stocks to tell her team to stop playing so the Sun could comeback and win the game. If Stocks wanted Vandersloot to get the assists record I'm sure Vandersloot and her teammates appreciate it.


Fouling your opponent when up 10 to get the ball back with 16.3 seconds left is a cheap way to get/break a record. Plus when you have no shot clock and are winning, you're supposed to run the clock out, not take a time out to try to go for another score. Records should be made in the natural flow of a game, not from the winning team having to resort to fouling to get more possessions.


Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 9:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sigur3 wrote:
PickledGinger wrote:
Sloot (once again) cemented herself in history with that performance. Her employer helping her get there is not cruel to the opposition.

It all business people.


This reminds me...I strongly dislike Stocks but Sloot having the two best years of her career under her is not a coincidence...

Having the favor of the best player on the team is usually a good path to job security in professional basketball. Usually.



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 9:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:
SportsGuru wrote:
I watched the game, it was competitive late in the 4th Period with the Sun attempting a comeback. I guess Miller wanted Stocks to tell her team to stop playing so the Sun could comeback and win the game. If Stocks wanted Vandersloot to get the assists record I'm sure Vandersloot and her teammates appreciate it.


Fouling your opponent when up 10 to get the ball back with 16.3 seconds left is a cheap way to get/break a record. Plus when you have no shot clock and are winning, you're supposed to run the clock out, not take a time out to try to go for another score.

This is what I was trying to say: it's one of those "unwritten rules" of coaching that, if you're up double digits, and you get the ball back, with the shot clock off, you hold the ball, and let time run out. Now, obviously, it's not a "written" rule, so they don't have to do it, but if you're going to be the one coach who decides to disregard the "unwritten rules," you can't be surprised or upset if other coaches feel some kind of way about it.

I am personally all-in on what the Sky tried to do: it was petty, and I'm here for all the petty. I just don't know how anybody can think that Stocks was the aggrieved party in this?



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 9:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:
SportsGuru wrote:
I watched the game, it was competitive late in the 4th Period with the Sun attempting a comeback. I guess Miller wanted Stocks to tell her team to stop playing so the Sun could comeback and win the game. If Stocks wanted Vandersloot to get the assists record I'm sure Vandersloot and her teammates appreciate it.


Fouling your opponent when up 10 to get the ball back with 16.3 seconds left is a cheap way to get/break a record. Plus when you have no shot clock and are winning, you're supposed to run the clock out, not take a time out to try to go for another score. Records should be made in the natural flow of a game, not from the winning team having to resort to fouling to get more possessions.


I'm guessing you believe Wilt Chamberlain's 100 point game should be scratch from the record book because what his team did to get him the ball in the 4th Period of that game.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain%27s_100-point_game

" In the fourth quarter, the Knicks began fouling other players to keep the ball away from Chamberlain, and they also became deliberate on offense to reduce the number of possessions for Philadelphia. The Warriors countered by committing fouls of their own to get the ball back."


zune69



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 9:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You can make the argument that Chicago would be a playoff team if Diggins was the starting PG. Sloot's the best pure PG in the league,but Chicago needs another 16-20 scorer...You can also make the case that Dallas would be a better team with Sloot as the starting PG...Diggins is a better scorer than Sloot,but Dallas needs more of a pass-first shoot-second PG...Yes,Diggins is avg 6 asst...but her greatest strength is scoring the basketball.

Sloot-8.6a in 31.8 mpg
Diggins-6.0a in 34.3 mpg


SportsGuru



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 10:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I believe Coates and Dolson should be playing for a team other then the Sky. The Sky if given the chance should draft Brown or McCowan. Diamond should be the starting SG and Gaby Williams should be the SF


zune69



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 10:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Gabby should not start at the expense of Quigley.....Allie's shooting to too vital to Chicago's offense.Gabby can come off the bench as the 6th/7th Woman.What Chicago's needs is a legit PF,and for Dolson to get her butt in shape/or a new center.Dolson really took a step back this season.

Dolson:

2017-14.5p/5.8r/2.6a/56%/43%/87%
2018-9.5p/4.5a/3.0a/46%/34%/91%---Plus terrible defense.




Last edited by zune69 on 08/11/18 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total
SportsGuru



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 10:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Gabby should not start at the expense of Quigley.....Allie's shooting to too vital to Chicago's offense.Gabby can come off the bench as the 6th/7th Woman.What Chicago's needs is a legit PF,and for Dolson to get her butt in shape/or a new center.


How many years has Dolson been in the league and how many more years do you think it will take her to get into shape, send her packing for a draft pick. Quigley should be the one coming off the bench or traded.


zune69



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 10:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SportsGuru wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Gabby should not start at the expense of Quigley.....Allie's shooting to too vital to Chicago's offense.Gabby can come off the bench as the 6th/7th Woman.What Chicago's needs is a legit PF,and for Dolson to get her butt in shape/or a new center.


How many years has Dolson been in the league and how many more years do you think it will take her to get into shape, send her packing for a draft pick. Quigley should be the one coming off the bench or traded.


Dolson was great last season(In great shape).An offseason stength and conditioning program would be very helpful....There are a number of teams who would love to have Allie as their starting SG(Dal,Minn,LA,NY)...I have no problem with Allie coming off the bench...but Gabby needs to earn a starters job just as Allie did....Getting increased production/Defense from the PF/C positions is more important than starting Gabby.


Dallas would love to have Quigley......Johnson for Quigley seems like a fair trade Very Happy


ClayK



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 11:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Interesting ...

In general, I would be upset as Miller about an intentional foul at the end of a game just to set a record. The idea is to win the game, and if someone sets a record in the run of play, fine -- but it's like the NBA guy who was rebound from a triple-double late in the game so he missed a breakaway layup so he could get an offensive rebound.

To me, that's clearly bogus.

This one, though, could reward your best player, a veteran, with a WNBA record, so through that lens, I'm not as upset (I still would have been at the time). If it was only the team record for assists, that would have been stupid, in my estimation -- again, do it in the run of play like the team did it that holds the record. And of course, by the same token, Ticha didn't get her 16th assist after an intentional foul late in the game.

All in all, I vote no on it, because it's unfair to the previous record holders, who didn't manipulate the game in search of a number, but I do understand Stocks trying to take care of CVS. As for Miller, at the end of a loss to an underdog, an understandable overreaction.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 11:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SportsGuru wrote:
Quigley should be the one coming off the bench or traded.


Tough crowd. This is coming off a great team win and an efficient 17 pts, 6 ast, 2 steal performance from Quigley.

She’s part of the whole chemistry package for Chicago.



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RP



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 11:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The sample size is small, but Chicago has been a much better defensive team with Coates on the court. Her per-minute numbers are also solid. It would be short-sighted to trade her (or, I should say, give her away since this is the Sky we are speaking of).


Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 11:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
In general, I would be upset as Miller about an intentional foul at the end of a game just to set a record. The idea is to win the game, and if someone sets a record in the run of play, fine -- but it's like the NBA guy who was rebound from a triple-double late in the game so he missed a breakaway layup so he could get an offensive rebound.

To me, that's clearly bogus.

If you're referring to Ricky Davis, that's not quite what happened. What he actually did was arguably worse.



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Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 12:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aladyyn wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
Love me some Slooty Very Happy USA are missing out big time

Averaging 12 pts and 8,6 asissts per game Shocked while being very effective from the field at 47,78 % and a real threat from behind the arc at 40%

If i had to choose a successor for Bird and i could choose any PG then it would be Sloot for sure.

Just casually dropping 8+ assists and double digit scoring on good efficiency as if she's not the only one to ever do it. She better not get snubbed from All-WNBA this year.

The people that vote for these All-WNBA teams prefer if the candidates come from squads with winning records. Sloot will not make the All-WNBA team again this season. Rolling Eyes



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 12:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
The people that vote for these All-WNBA teams prefer if the candidates come from squads with winning records. Sloot will not make the All-WNBA team again this season. Rolling Eyes


Bird, Hayes, and Taurasi are probably locks at guard, so then Vandersloot would be competing with Diggins-Smith, Gray, Loyd, McBride, or any forwards the league decides to magically turn into Gs for the All-WNBA team. 😬


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PostPosted: 08/11/18 12:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I know Stocks main selling point when she interviewed for the Sky head coaching position was the fact that her specialty was coaching defense. Defense or the lack thereof has been the main weak aspect of this team the past two seasons. My opinion I don't believe the Sky has the right mixture of personnel to be a good defensive team. Usually good defensive teams have a collection of players that are quick and agile. The Sky have a few players that have the athletic ability to play good defense but we don't have enough to turn the Sky into a good defensive team. It's impossible to expect a rhino to run as fast as a cheetah.



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sigur3



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 1:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SportsGuru wrote:
Quigley should be the one coming off the bench or traded.


?????

RP wrote:
The sample size is small, but Chicago has been a much better defensive team with Coates on the court. Her per-minute numbers are also solid. It would be short-sighted to trade her (or, I should say, give her away since this is the Sky we are speaking of).


It's funny you mention that because Stocks was working Coates HARD several times after defensive possessions. At one point she was yelling at her and Coates was just looking straight ahead, so Stocks gave her a small shove in the back. Still no acknowledgment. Really awkward stuff.

She's a better rebounder and defender than Dolson, no doubt, although that's not a very high bar.


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PostPosted: 08/11/18 2:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
You can make the argument that Chicago would be a playoff team if Diggins was the starting PG.


LOL.


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PostPosted: 08/11/18 2:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I mentioned on Twitter a few days ago that the best-case scenario for Coates is someone like Crystal Langhorne, who had really solid per-minute numbers as a rookie but couldn't get on the floor much (largely because her coach didn't trust her to play any defense). If Coates can maintain the numbers just over a longer period, then she becomes a very useful player in future, despite a pretty damn anonymous rookie season.



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 3:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
zune69 wrote:
You can make the argument that Chicago would be a playoff team if Diggins was the starting PG.


LOL.

I love Diggins. But unless Diggins has a magic potion hidden inside her jersey, her performance alone would not make Chicago a better defensive team and a playoff team.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 4:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
mavcarter wrote:
zune69 wrote:
You can make the argument that Chicago would be a playoff team if Diggins was the starting PG.


LOL.

I love Diggins. But unless Diggins has a magic potion hidden inside her jersey, her performance alone would not make Chicago a better defensive team and a playoff team.


Dallas has made the playoffs 2 out of the last 4 years with less talent than Chicago currently have on their roster.

2015-Diggins,Johnson,Christmas,Paris,Pierson,Sims,Williams,Baighh,Zahui b......Diggins/Sims missed a combined 36 games.

2017-Diggins,Gray,Christmas,Johnson,Powers,Plasaince,Paris.Thornton,Chong......Powers/Paris missed a combined 36 games.

2018-Sloot,Quigley,DeShelds,Dolson,Gabby,Parker,Copper,Coates,Ndour....There's absolutely no excuse for Chicago missing the playoffs this season.




Last edited by zune69 on 08/11/18 5:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Michelle89



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PostPosted: 08/11/18 4:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
mavcarter wrote:
zune69 wrote:
You can make the argument that Chicago would be a playoff team if Diggins was the starting PG.


LOL.

I love Diggins. But unless Diggins has a magic potion hidden inside her jersey, her performance alone would not make Chicago a better defensive team and a playoff team.


Dallas has made the playpffs 2 out of the last 4 years with less talent than Chicago currently have on their roster.


And now they barely make the playoffs and maybe get a worse record then last season with a lot more talent (Cambage and Stevens)



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