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What should happen?
Aces forfeit
39%
 39%  [ 22 ]
Game is played during season
16%
 16%  [ 9 ]
Game is played on August 20 if there are playoff implications
44%
 44%  [ 25 ]
Total Votes : 56

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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 08/03/18 9:53 pm    ::: Aces - Mystics, what should happen? Reply Reply with quote

The cancellation of tonight's game because of Las Vegas' travel woes is a very bad look, and the lack of a clear statement by the WNBA is even worse. I doubt we will ever get a full statement but right now this looks bad for everyone.


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 08/03/18 10:33 pm    ::: Re: Aces - Mystics, what should happen? Reply Reply with quote

I would hope the rules are clear on this. If they are, then they should be followed whatever they are. If the rules say "forfeit" you can't go soft on that and not enforce it.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 08/03/18 11:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree about following established rules, but I'd like to know more about the timing. If they had 25 straight hours of travel and arrived at Dulles or Reagan an hour before tipoff, then I think a forfeit is unjustified, particularly if the union reps and medical staff told them that injury risk was unacceptable. (Think of the repercussions if Wilson had a season-ending knee injury.) However, if they slept in an airport somewhere (who hasn't?) and arrived at the airport before noon, then they ought to forfeit. JMO, not even worth 2 cents here. Either way, this is likely to affect the playoffs as well as spotlight league travel arrangements.


calbearman76



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 12:04 am    ::: Re: Aces - Mystics, what should happen? Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
I would hope the rules are clear on this. If they are, then they should be followed whatever they are. If the rules say "forfeit" you can't go soft on that and not enforce it.


If the rules are truly clear the decision should have already been made. The mere fact that it wasn't called a forfeit is showing that there is ambiguity. Someone else made the comment that Washington wasn't forced to forfeit when their building sprung a leak. I don't see this as too much different.


If their is a tape of Laimbeer telling a WNBA official he won't have his team play because of the travel problems and the official telling him it would mean a forfeit, I would like to hear it. Otherwise I have to believe there is some question. The WNBA looks really bad right now.


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 12:39 am    ::: Re: Aces - Mystics, what should happen? Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
I would hope the rules are clear on this. If they are, then they should be followed whatever they are. If the rules say "forfeit" you can't go soft on that and not enforce it.


If the rules are truly clear the decision should have already been made. The mere fact that it wasn't called a forfeit is showing that there is ambiguity. Someone else made the comment that Washington wasn't forced to forfeit when their building sprung a leak. I don't see this as too much different.

One key difference would be that there are WNBA officials at the game who will have decided that the leak made it impossible and/or dangerous to play that game, and therefore postponed it. This time the players were in town in time for the game, and then made the decision themselves that they weren't going to play. You could argue that in both cases the decision was that it was 'too dangerous' for the players to take part, but every team in the league deals with travel issues, and virtually all of them have arrived with little time to prepare and been forced to play anyway. This was an extreme case, but probably not that much more extreme than several in the past.

It's unfortunate, but I think it's a forfeit. It's something there probably should be written laws/rules for, but it's hard to set black and white lines. How hard should they try/how much money should the team have to pay to get their team there on time? Would Vegas have been better off claiming that their final flight option wasn't available, arriving an hour after tip instead of an hour before, and therefore not appearing to have had a choice? What if there are six seats available on a flight but not the 15 that the players/coaches would need? What if there are only first class seats available which would cost thousands each at late notice?

But I think the league will say "you were there in time, you should've given it a shot". And that would also be my argument if I'm the Mystics. It's an important game for them, and they need the win (plus cramming the game into their schedule somewhere before the end of the season would be awkward). Arguably, Vegas are better off losing anyway. They've still got a shot to 'catch' Chicago for second-best odds in the lottery. That's probably better for them than a likely quick exit in the playoffs.



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 1:34 am    ::: Re: Aces - Mystics, what should happen? Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
It's unfortunate, but I think it's a forfeit. It's something there probably should be written laws/rules for, but it's hard to set black and white lines. How hard should they try/how much money should the team have to pay to get their team there on time? Would Vegas have been better off claiming that their final flight option wasn't available, arriving an hour after tip instead of an hour before, and therefore not appearing to have had a choice? What if there are six seats available on a flight but not the 15 that the players/coaches would need? What if there are only first class seats available which would cost thousands each at late notice?

But I think the league will say "you were there in time, you should've given it a shot". And that would also be my argument if I'm the Mystics. It's an important game for them, and they need the win (plus cramming the game into their schedule somewhere before the end of the season would be awkward).



My problem is that if it was that clear, why didn't the WNBA come out with that statement immediately? This issue developed over the course of a day. The WNBA hierarchy had to be aware of the situation. When the game was cancelled the decision should have already been made.


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 6:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It was probably only cancelled that late because they were still hoping the Aces were going to show up and play. It was only cancelled once it became clear that they wouldn't.

As for the WNBA not making an immediate decision, that's just because they're the WNBA. Acting expediently isn't really in their makeup.



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CourtsideTix



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 6:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The WNBA's 2018 rules are at the link below. The rule (actually, it's in the "Comments" section) called "Game Postponement and Cancellation" is at pages 52-53, and quoted below. A number of factors are listed for consideration by the league in determining whether a game will be "cancelled or postponed."

Quote:
The decision to postpone or cancel a game can only be made by the League Office, after consultation with the affected teams.

Before a game begins, a game may be postponed or cancelled for issues related to the condition of the playing court or arena, or a general or forecasted condition involving weather, travel, civil unrest, natural disaster, or other event.

The following factors will be considered in determining whether a game will be postponed or cancelled:

(1) The whereabouts of teams and game officials (including the efforts that have been
made or can be made to get these participants to the game site).
(2) Whether sufficient team and arena staff are available to operate the arena and
conduct the game.
(3) Input from both teams.
(4) The safety of game participants, team and arena staff, and fans.
(5) Communications with state or local government officials and law enforcement.
(6) The ability to reschedule the game.
(7) Any other factor that the WNBA deems relevant to the decision

After a game has begun, the decision to postpone or cancel that game will be made using the factors listed above. However, the determination of whether to delay the game while the decision is being made is within the authority of the game officials (in consultation with the League Office).


https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2018/06/2018-Rule-Book-FINAL.pdf

The word "forfeit" does not appear in this rule. Also, as best I can tell from scanning the rule book, the rules on team travel (e.g., must fly commercial) are not in this book. Are they someplace else? (The CBA?)


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 6:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There's a huge and detailed section on air travel in the CBA that goes as follows:
Quote:
Section 4. Air Travel.
All air travel provided by the Team (including, but not limited to, travel between games) will be coach.

That's it. Searching the CBA for the word 'forfeit' only brings up two hits, both talking about forfeiting draft picks if a team transgression is deemed serious enough.



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CourtsideTix



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 6:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thanks Richyy.


CourtsideTix



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 6:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was thinking some more about the "Game Postponement and Cancellation" rule I quoted above. Per that rule, the League's choice is between "postponement" or "cancellation" ["a game may be postponed or cancelled"] -- it's one or the other. Obviously, if there's a postponement, the game will be played in the future and the W/L will be determined then. But here, the League "cancelled" the game, it did not postpone it. Isn't that essentially requiring a decision on forfeiture or effectively making it? They aren't going to play this game in the future...


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 6:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here is a link to the CBA on the players association web page.

https://wnbpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/WNBA-CBA-2014-2021Final.pdf

It is really long, but this section may be relevant - the league could contend the refusal to play was an illegal strike by the Aces - "wildcat strike" as they used to call it.

Quote:
During the stated term of this Agreement, neither the Players Association nor its
members shall engage in any strikes, cessations or stoppages of work, or any other similar
interference with the operations of the WNBA or any of its teams.


There is also this:

Quote:
Section 5.
Player's Threat to Withhold Services.
The WNBA and the Players Association agree that a player who publicly
demands a renegotiation of her Standard Player Contract or Marketing and Promotional
Agreement, and who threatens to withhold the services she has agreed to render under such Standard Player Contract or Marketing and Promotional Agreement, or to perform at a level below her full capabilities unless such renegotiation takes place, shall be
considered to have engaged in conduct impairing the faithful and thorough discharge of the player obligations under Article VI, Section 3.


I doubt it gets that ugly, but this could be the a big problem.



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 7:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CourtsideTix wrote:
The WNBA's 2018 rules are at the link below. The rule (actually, it's in the "Comments" section) called "Game Postponement and Cancellation" is at pages 52-53, and quoted below. A number of factors are listed for consideration by the league in determining whether a game will be "cancelled or postponed."

Quote:
The decision to postpone or cancel a game can only be made by the League Office, after consultation with the affected teams.

Before a game begins, a game may be postponed or cancelled for issues related to the condition of the playing court or arena, or a general or forecasted condition involving weather, travel, civil unrest, natural disaster, or other event.

The following factors will be considered in determining whether a game will be postponed or cancelled:

(1) The whereabouts of teams and game officials (including the efforts that have been made or can be made to get these participants to the game site).
(2) Whether sufficient team and arena staff are available to operate the arena and
conduct the game.
(3) Input from both teams.
(4) The safety of game participants, team and arena staff, and fans.
(5) Communications with state or local government officials and law enforcement.
(6) The ability to reschedule the game.
(7) Any other factor that the WNBA deems relevant to the decision

After a game has begun, the decision to postpone or cancel that game will be made using the factors listed above. However, the determination of whether to delay the game while the decision is being made is within the authority of the game officials (in consultation with the League Office).


https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2018/06/2018-Rule-Book-FINAL.pdf

The word "forfeit" does not appear in this rule. Also, as best I can tell from scanning the rule book, the rules on team travel (e.g., must fly commercial) are not in this book. Are they someplace else? (The CBA?)


The highlighted part seems a bit of a gray area. Does 25+ hours of travel already constitute a reasonable effort and give the team an expectation of a postponement?

A bigger sticking point is that the LV decision apparently had the support of the players union and of their medical staff. A decision by the league to call this a forfeit is going to be a slap in the face to both the union and all the physicians throughout the league.

CourtsideTix wrote:
I was thinking some more about the "Game Postponement and Cancellation" rule I quoted above. Per that rule, the League's choice is between "postponement" or "cancellation" ["a game may be postponed or cancelled"] -- it's one or the other. Obviously, if there's a postponement, the game will be played in the future and the W/L will be determined then. But here, the League "cancelled" the game, it did not postpone it. Isn't that essentially requiring a decision on forfeiture or effectively making it? They aren't going to play this game in the future...


I don't think a "cancellation" necessarily means a forfeiture. For example, a national catastrophe or arena becoming unusable could cause a cancellation, and if the game is meaningless in the standings, it might not be rescheduled, without either team being required to forfeit. One question seems to be how much of this situation was in the Aces control, compared to these other scenarios.

Richyyy wrote:
There's a huge and detailed section on air travel in the CBA that goes as follows:
Quote:
Section 4. Air Travel.
All air travel provided by the Team (including, but not limited to, travel between games) will be coach.



And requiring players to fly coach? My knees hurt just thinking about that. If they have to fly commercial, at least put them in business class. (Anybody remember Stacey Dales and ESPN parting ways over this point?)


A few more details in this story, re: arrival time, no meals, no shoot-around, Thibault's thoughts, and precedents.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/03/sports/basketball/vegas-aces-washington-mystics-canceled.html


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 8:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
(Anybody remember Stacey Dales and ESPN parting ways over this point?)


Dales quite because her (male) colleagues were flying first class while she was stuck in coach.



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 8:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The NY Times article spells out the situation pretty well. It is worth point out that there were over 800 flight cancellations and over 3700 delays due to the storms in the Northeast, which included NY and DC.



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 8:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sam Gordon Las Vegas Review Journal tweet gives evidence the WNBA did give approval for usage of a Charter Plane (Jet) before the team left Las Vegas but the excuse is MGM Resorts International couldn't attain a Charter Flight. Let me get this right MGM Resorts International couldn't use one of their Jets or call in a favor from one of their partners or patrons in the Las Vegas area.

This forfeit in my honest opinion should be on the Las Vegas Aces Management (MGM Resorts International). I'm sorry, the Las Vegas Aces team will suffer collateral damage (Game Forfeited, Win Awarded to the Washington Mystics)


Per Sam Gordon Las Vegas Review Journal:


The WNBA approved the use of a charter plane for the Las Vegas Aces last night 8/2/18 had they been able to attain one, per league source with direct knowledge of the situation. The team is owned by MGM Resorts International.


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 8:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So everyone is OK with rewarding the Aces more ping pong balls based on them forfeiting the game? Pretty clever for Evil Bill to find a way to tank without his players doing something dumb like trying to win.



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 8:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah - Aces would likely get 2nd in ping pong balls based on the 2 year average. Seems silly to waste that on an 8th place playoff spot. Could end up with the No. 1 pick.



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 8:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
So everyone is OK with rewarding the Aces more ping pong balls based on them forfeiting the game? Pretty clever for Evil Bill to find a way to tank without his players doing something dumb like trying to win.


There should be harsh punishment, not only forfeiture of the game but also the loss of 2019 1st rd pick.

I heard Gene Wang on a local DC Radio Sports Talk Show 106.7 The Fan (Andy Pollin & Carol Maloney) this Saturday morning, he suspects Bill Laimbeer is probably trying to pull a fast one for the lottery, if they really cared about making the playoffs they would've attempted to play the game.


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 9:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
So everyone is OK with rewarding the Aces more ping pong balls based on them forfeiting the game? Pretty clever for Evil Bill to find a way to tank without his players doing something dumb like trying to win.

It's been very noticable that the statement came from the players and the players' association, not from the Aces organisation. We haven't officially heard anything from Bill or the Aces front office. That might be because the decision was made by the players, and they didn't want to approve or condemn it. Or it might be because they're trying to maintain plausible deniability. Or maybe the league asked them to stay quiet until a decision was made. But regardless, I doubt it was an accident.



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TotalCardinalMove



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 9:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aren’t the playoffs scheduled for the 21st? How is playing the game a day before the playoffs are supposed to start beneficial for anybody? Especially if you are aren’t playing for a bye.


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 9:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SportsGuru wrote:
There should be harsh punishment, not only forfeiture of the game but also the loss of 2019 1st rd pick.
They should have to forfeit their pick for forfeiting one game? That's preposterous.



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 9:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TotalCardinalMove wrote:
Aren’t the playoffs scheduled for the 21st? How is playing the game a day before the playoffs are supposed to start beneficial for anybody? Especially if you are aren’t playing for a bye.

Well, that's the rub, isn't it? Las Vegas might be playing for ping-pong balls, but Washington is tied for fourth: they would be playing for a bye.



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 9:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
pilight wrote:
So everyone is OK with rewarding the Aces more ping pong balls based on them forfeiting the game? Pretty clever for Evil Bill to find a way to tank without his players doing something dumb like trying to win.

It's been very noticable that the statement came from the players and the players' association, not from the Aces organisation. We haven't officially heard anything from Bill or the Aces front office. That might be because the decision was made by the players, and they didn't want to approve or condemn it. Or it might be because they're trying to maintain plausible deniability. Or maybe the league asked them to stay quiet until a decision was made. But regardless, I doubt it was an accident.


Bingo.

A more egregious issue, separate from policies regarding travel arrangements, are the draft rewards for teams that tank games, either by forfeitures, roster manipulations, or anything else. These practices need to be dealt with very harshly by the league. You'd think the management of a LV-based team would be acutely sensitive to this issue. FWIW, the Aces only have a first-round pick in 2019, and its loss would be huge.


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 9:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A quick Google search shows that there literally dozens of articles linking fatigue and lack of sleep to injury. Here is just one. Players seem well justified in not playing.

https://www.fatiguescience.com/blog/5-ways-sleep-impacts-peak-athletic-performance/


Quote:

A University of California study concluded that injury rates in youth athletes increased during games that followed a night of sleep fewer that 6 hours.¹ Another study looking at injury rates in high school athletes found that sleep hours was the strongest predictor of injuries, even more so than the hours of practice.²

Why is this the case? As we explored in the first point, fatigue affects reaction time. A tired athlete is slower to react to a potential hit on the ice, the field, or the court. Secondly, fatigue affects the body’s immune system, making players more susceptible to illness. Thirdly, shorter sleep periods don’t provide the body with sufficient time to regenerate cells and repair from the abuse of workouts, games, and daily activities. Over time, game-earned injuries, health issues, and the inability to fully recover can wear on an athlete and contribute to more time spent on the sidelines.

“If you told an athlete you had a treatment that would reduce the chemicals associated with stress, that would naturally increase human growth hormone, that enhances recovery rate, that improves performance, they would all do it. Sleep does all of those things.”

— Casey Smith, Head Athletic Trainer, Dallas Mavericks



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 9:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
SportsGuru wrote:
There should be harsh punishment, not only forfeiture of the game but also the loss of 2019 1st rd pick.
They should have to forfeit their pick for forfeiting one game? That's preposterous.


Deflate-Gate resulted in Patriots quarterback Tom Brady being suspended for four games and the team being fined $1 million and losing two draft picks. The St Louis Cardinals forfeited a draft pick for spying on the Houston Astros. The Las Vegas Aces by not playing the game hurt the image of the WNBA, I believe there has to be some kind of harsh punishment so another team will think twice before they purposely don't show up for a game.


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 10:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I find the thought that you hold forfeiting a game for reasons of health and safety on the same level as cheating to be troubling.



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 10:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
I find the thought that you hold forfeiting a game for reasons of health and safety on the same level as cheating to be troubling.


That's a Beautiful Song excuse that someone associated with the Las Vegas Aces came up with. I seen Major League Baseball teams come in from a road game early in the morning and had to play an afternoon game, the Major League Baseball team rest the majority of their starting players and play their reserves. Bill Laimbeer could've played his 7 bench players the majority of the game and sprinkle in some of his 5 starters


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 10:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SportsGuru wrote:
Silky Johnson wrote:
I find the thought that you hold forfeiting a game for reasons of health and safety on the same level as cheating to be troubling.


That's a Beautiful Song excuse that someone associated with the Las Vegas Aces came up with. I seen Major League Baseball teams come in from a road game early in the morning and had to play an afternoon game, the Major League Baseball team rest the majority of their starting players and play their reserves. Bill Laimbeer could've played his 7 bench players the majority of the game and sprinkle in some of his 5 starters


So it's OK if the bench players get hurt?



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 10:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SportsGuru wrote:
Silky Johnson wrote:
I find the thought that you hold forfeiting a game for reasons of health and safety on the same level as cheating to be troubling.


That's a Beautiful Song excuse that someone associated with the Las Vegas Aces came up with. I seen Major League Baseball teams come in from a road game early in the morning and had to play an afternoon game, the Major League Baseball team rest the majority of their starting players and play their reserves. Bill Laimbeer could've played his 7 bench players the majority of the game and sprinkle in some of his 5 starters

I might find this response agreeable if it weren't for the fact that WNBA players don't make their money playing in the WNBA. These players go out and play tired and get injured, then they get dropped/don't get signed overseas, which is how they make their real bread. And then what?



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 10:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here is my Solomonesque solution assuming no rescheduling which I would prefer. Nothing happens until the end of the season. If the game outcome makes no difference in either the playoff positions or lottery odds then there is no adjustment to wins and losses. If the Mystics playoff position would be impacted by the outcome of the August 4 game the Mystics are awarded a win. If the Aces playoff position would have been impacted they would penalized with a loss. If the Aces are in the lottery, they do not get a loss so as to not enhance their lottery odds.



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 10:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
SportsGuru wrote:
Silky Johnson wrote:
I find the thought that you hold forfeiting a game for reasons of health and safety on the same level as cheating to be troubling.


That's a Beautiful Song excuse that someone associated with the Las Vegas Aces came up with. I seen Major League Baseball teams come in from a road game early in the morning and had to play an afternoon game, the Major League Baseball team rest the majority of their starting players and play their reserves. Bill Laimbeer could've played his 7 bench players the majority of the game and sprinkle in some of his 5 starters


So it's OK if the bench players get hurt?


It's Basketball, something most of us in our youths played all day and all night long until we were call for dinner.


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 10:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm bracing myself for another problem here in DC for the game on the 12th. There will be demonstration and counterdemonstration downtown. The Metro system is already trying to find a way to keep the groups apart, so it's going to be tough (and potentially unsafe) to get to the game.


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 10:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SportsGuru wrote:
Silky Johnson wrote:
I find the thought that you hold forfeiting a game for reasons of health and safety on the same level as cheating to be troubling.


That's a Beautiful Song excuse that someone associated with the Las Vegas Aces came up with. I seen Major League Baseball teams come in from a road game early in the morning and had to play an afternoon game, the Major League Baseball team rest the majority of their starting players and play their reserves. Bill Laimbeer could've played his 7 bench players the majority of the game and sprinkle in some of his 5 starters


MLB is a different situation. Those players get to sleep during their chartered flight and will be fed during delays. Secondly, the physical demands of a baseball game are a lot less.


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 11:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
SportsGuru wrote:
Silky Johnson wrote:
I find the thought that you hold forfeiting a game for reasons of health and safety on the same level as cheating to be troubling.


That's a Beautiful Song excuse that someone associated with the Las Vegas Aces came up with. I seen Major League Baseball teams come in from a road game early in the morning and had to play an afternoon game, the Major League Baseball team rest the majority of their starting players and play their reserves. Bill Laimbeer could've played his 7 bench players the majority of the game and sprinkle in some of his 5 starters


MLB is a different situation. Those players get to sleep during their chartered flight and will be fed during delays. Secondly, the physical demands of a baseball game are a lot less.


You don't think baseball isn't a demanding sport when one is in the batter's box and there's a baseball being thrown close to 100 MPH towards a batter ?


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 11:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Here is my Solomonesque solution assuming no rescheduling which I would prefer. Nothing happens until the end of the season. If the game outcome makes no difference in either the playoff positions or lottery odds then there is no adjustment to wins and losses. If the Mystics playoff position would be impacted by the outcome of the August 4 game the Mystics are awarded a win. If the Aces playoff position would have been impacted they would penalized with a loss. If the Aces are in the lottery, they do not get a loss so as to not enhance their lottery odds.


So the aces get punished for the WNBA being careless, and Mystics get rewarded.

I say, keep the schedule the same unless it would impact playoff positions for either team. If so, play the game at seasons end.



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 11:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thanks to Courtsidetix, Richyy and Randy for their information regarding League rules and the CBA. Given how difficult it is to often get information on the WNBA it is great to have this forum where people who care about the sport can find out what is going on. Also big thanks to the New York Times (Fake news) for their article. And unfortunately a BIG "what the Hay" to the WNBA website which doesn't even address the issue.

After reading all of this I believe the best alternative is to play the game on August 20 if it has playoff implications. With the Player's Association having been involved and having reasonable arguments on player safety, a forfeit ls unwarranted. The rule requiring coach travel certainly contributed to this unfortunate situation. Hopefully the WNBA will learn from this, but after 21 years I am not so sure.


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 11:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
After reading all of this I believe the best alternative is to play the game on August 20 if it has playoff implications.


What about lottery implications?



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 11:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
After reading all of this I believe the best alternative is to play the game on August 20 if it has playoff implications.


What about lottery implications?


It’s unlikely the outcome of the game wouldn’t affect something, like draft position for both teams in general. Losing two games just dropped the Lynx from #3 seed to #7 seed.



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 12:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If they were to reschedule, 8/13 seems likely. DC hosts Dallas on the 12th and Vegas has a few days open. The building is also available. It would be inconvenient to both teams but not impossible.

It would be nice if the league spoke out on the issue.



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 1:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
Thanks to Courtsidetix, Richyy and Randy for their information regarding League rules and the CBA. Given how difficult it is to often get information on the WNBA it is great to have this forum where people who care about the sport can find out what is going on. Also big thanks to the New York Times (Fake news) for their article. And unfortunately a BIG "what the Hay" to the WNBA website which doesn't even address the issue.

After reading all of this I believe the best alternative is to play the game on August 20 if it has playoff implications. With the Player's Association having been involved and having reasonable arguments on player safety, a forfeit ls unwarranted. The rule requiring coach travel certainly contributed to this unfortunate situation. Hopefully the WNBA will learn from this, but after 21 years I am not so sure.


Playing the game on the 20th probably isn’t realistic with the playoffs already penciled in for the day after. What if by that point neither team is playing for a bye? They’d have to play a game the night before a single elimination playoff game. How “fair” would that be?


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 2:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TotalCardinalMove wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
Thanks to Courtsidetix, Richyy and Randy for their information regarding League rules and the CBA. Given how difficult it is to often get information on the WNBA it is great to have this forum where people who care about the sport can find out what is going on. Also big thanks to the New York Times (Fake news) for their article. And unfortunately a BIG "what the Hay" to the WNBA website which doesn't even address the issue.

After reading all of this I believe the best alternative is to play the game on August 20 if it has playoff implications. With the Player's Association having been involved and having reasonable arguments on player safety, a forfeit ls unwarranted. The rule requiring coach travel certainly contributed to this unfortunate situation. Hopefully the WNBA will learn from this, but after 21 years I am not so sure.


Playing the game on the 20th probably isn’t realistic with the playoffs already penciled in for the day after. What if by that point neither team is playing for a bye? They’d have to play a game the night before a single elimination playoff game. How “fair” would that be?

If either team were left in the 5th-8th spots, they'd then be playing a back-to-back-to-back, with the third one being the elimination playoff game. Maybe they'd then shift the 1st-round game to the 22nd, but then you just complicate the next round, which is supposed to be on the 23rd. Utter nonsense.

If they were going to order the game to be rescheduled, without caring about what it did to the Mystics' schedule, the most sensible day would probably have been today. Vegas are already in town, and anywhere you put it you're forcing Washington into an extra back-to-back.

Another reason that I think they're most likely to just award the win to Washington.



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 2:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

With all the back to backs scheduled, I'm surprised this hasn't come up earlier. It's hard to blame Vegas. They tried to get there 24 hours before game time.



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 3:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My reading, WNBA League Office gave the Las Vegas Aces approval for a Charter Flight before the team left Las Vegas. MGM Resorts International claim they couldn't attain a Charter Flight for the Players. So, I guessing MGM Resorts International is telling everyone nobody in Las Vegas had a Jet sitting idle at the Vegas Airport or nearby air field, what about UNLV or somebody like Wayne Newton


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 4:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:

It would be nice if the league spoke out on the issue.


This is the biggest problem. It is likely that we won't hear anything until Monday (at the earliest). At least make a statement about what you are doing and when you will give clarification. The WNBA website still just says the game was cancelled. This is leadership at its worst.


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 4:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree they should make some kind of statement but reading all of the conclusions jumped to in this and the other threads shows why they they should take the time to find out exactly what happened and why. They also need input on all of the rules that apply and perhaps get input from all of the teams.Their decision will impact all of the teams either directly or indirectly. Because this involves the players union as well and CBA talks may be in the offing, it is a virtual minefield of possible problems. Bottom line - I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a while.



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 4:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
If they were to reschedule, 8/13 seems likely. DC hosts Dallas on the 12th and Vegas has a few days open. The building is also available. It would be inconvenient to both teams but not impossible.



I think the Mystics would consider it beyond "inconvenient." It would create a back-to-back for them, and right at the end of the season when they will likely still be fighting for playoff position.


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 4:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TotalCardinalMove wrote:
Playing the game on the 20th probably isn’t realistic with the playoffs already penciled in for the day after. What if by that point neither team is playing for a bye? They’d have to play a game the night before a single elimination playoff game. How “fair” would that be?


Agreed. It would be totally unfair to create a potential back-to-back with the first playoff game.

Also, in terms of arena availability, I don't think anyone should assume that the Capital One Arena would even be available to the Mystics after their last scheduled regular season home game on August 17; the arena is already in the midst of a major renovation that is going to go full throttle after the regular season ends.


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PostPosted: 08/04/18 5:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://twitter.com/MechelleV/status/1025865808688414720

Quote:
As for still-pending announcement on whether Aces-Mystics is officially a forfeit for Las Vegas ... any such WNBA decisions have go through channels with the NBA. That's partly why things like this tend to take longer than perhaps WNBA fans think they should.



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 7:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pilight...

If the game isn't made up, will you count the Aces Mystics debacle as a game for the players on both rosters in your quickest to milestone lists ?


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