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Star players as coaches

 
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ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 08/05/18 10:37 am    ::: Star players as coaches Reply Reply with quote

So we often hear about how a young guard should play with Seattle to learn from Sue Bird, or a young post can be "mentored" by a veteran -- ignoring the presence of well-paid professional coaches who have at least some background in teaching as well as playing.

Sometimes, of course, the elite player is a good teacher, and is an excellent coach, but it is far from automatic, as Katie Smith shows.

Smith was a great, versatile player who could defend, score, rebound and most of all, understood how to win. She is, unfortunately, not a very good WNBA coach, and may never be.

Smith was also very popular as a player, and fans want to keep their favorites around, so again the tendency is to think that a popular player with the fans will be a good coach.

Neither talent as a player nor popularity with fans and media has much to do with being a successful coach at any level. Coaching in high school is teaching (and some recruiting); coaching in college is recruiting; and coaching in the pros is ego management and strategic savvy. (Oversimplified, of course ...)

At any level, job one is to get your players to play hard, no matter what your method.

Why is there an assumption that Katie Smith or Sue Bird or Kara Lawson or any other "favorite" player will be able to do any of these things? Playing the game is much different from coaching the game, and Katie Smith is far from the only example of that distinction.



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myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
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PostPosted: 08/05/18 10:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think star players turned coaches in general have a hard time relating to players with less talent/less oomph/less bball smarts than they themselves had. Swoopes as a HC at Loyola was a good example of disaster. On the other hand, they do have the experience so can relate to some of the issues players face....which perhaps makes them well suited for being assistants at least to start out. And it depends a lot on personality. I don't know that you can clump them all into one basket. PGs have a unique viewpoint which perhaps gives them a better chance at becoming good HCs. There are certainly some very good college coaches who were themselves very good players.

In general, the 'mentoring' stuff is mostly BS. Yeah, there are some players into it, but mostly why do they want to 'mentor' someone who is there to take their job? Cappie in Indy is a great example. Do we suppose the Mitchells are enjoying their 'mentoring'? They were already inclined to heave up bricks and now they have somebody ahead of them heaving up even more bricks. Great mentoring.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 08/05/18 12:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
I think star players turned coaches in general have a hard time relating to players with less talent/less oomph/less bball smarts than they themselves had. Swoopes as a HC at Loyola was a good example of disaster.


I don’t think Swoopes was a disaster because she couldn’t relate to kids with less talent than her. She was a disaster because she's from a different era with no social media, and she was too intrusive to their lives. Don’t mess with the millennials, as coach Yori might attest.

myrtle wrote:
On the other hand, they do have the experience so can relate to some of the issues players face....which perhaps makes them well suited for being assistants at least to start out.


What are you trying to say to Dawn Staley and Lindsay Whalen?

myrtle wrote:
I don't know that you can clump them all into one basket.


Clumping into baskets is what we do best.

myrtle wrote:
PGs have a unique viewpoint which perhaps gives them a better chance at becoming good HCs.


Unintentional props to Reeve?

myrtle wrote:
Yeah, there are some players into it, but mostly why do they want to 'mentor' someone who is there to take their job?


Because it’s all about the team, and if you’re not all about the team, you’d probably be weeded out long before you get to the point of being considered good enough to mentor someone. This may surprise you, there’s actually many unselfish people in the world, perhaps even the majority of them? The world is in deep ish if this doesn’t turn out to be the case. Unfortunately, the President is NOT an example of an unselfish person, and he’s running the country right now. Maybe he’s tainting people’s views on the world right now.

myrtle wrote:
Cappie in Indy is a great example. Do we suppose the Mitchells are enjoying their 'mentoring'?


There’s probably some respect for Cappie among some young players. Kelsey Mitchell is very humble and reserved, and I doubt she feels entitled to be a starter. I remember Jewell Loyd started for SEA as a rookie and struggled as most first year guards do. She actually felt guilty because she knew she was hurting the team. If I recall correctly, Loyd requested to come off the bench. Unselfish team players.... they actually do exist. They should be the only players that exist on a successful team.

myrtle wrote:
They were already inclined to heave up bricks and now they have somebody ahead of them heaving up even more bricks. Great mentoring.


It’d probably be a good idea to mic up Cappie to demonstrate what goes on out there for veteran leader. Probably a lot of talking going on, the kind of stuff Mitchell isn’t great at or feels comfortable with because she’s a rookie with no pro experience. Most likely this is ultimately good for Mitchell.

Hard to argue the results so far for Indy.



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PostPosted: 08/05/18 2:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Cynthia cooper hasnt been that bad as a HC.



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Michelle89



Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: 08/05/18 3:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If you are already a coach on the floor (with a high basketball IQ) as a player or as some say an extension from the coach (often good PG's) then its easier to become a coach.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 08/05/18 3:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Things might come too easily for a great player and they have a hard time realizing not everyone is that good. This year might be a great learning experience for Whalen. Being that player who is not very good might give her insight into what the kids she will soon be coaching are going through.

Star players might do better as college coaches where, as Clay said - recruiting is the most important part of the job. Kids are likely to be more impressed with say Whalen than some former assistant coach that rose through the ranks to head coach.


calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 08/05/18 3:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Great players that became very successful coaches:

Anne Donovan
Kim Mulkey
Dawn Staley

I'm sure there are others but these are the first three that come to mind that truly excelled in both areas. Staley and Mulkey were both point guards while Donovan was a center. Stars have a few built in advantages because they have instant credibility that they know the sport. In college they also have a built in recruiting advantage because of their celebrity. But whether they are able to teach and motivate is not necessarily the same skill set that made them great players.


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 08/05/18 5:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In fairness to Smith she wasn't one of those star players who was immediately parachuted in as a head coach with no experience whatsoever, like Jason Kidd was a few years ago in Brooklyn. She was an assistant coach in the WNBA for four seasons before getting the Liberty head coaching job. This wasn't just an arbitrary star appointment - she had built a reputation as an assistant as well (and NY weren't the first team that wanted to give her their top job).

And coaches do improve and learn. Sandy Brondello only lasted one year in her first WNBA head coaching job, and is now considered pretty good by a lot of people, has won a title, and stayed in the same job for 5 years. Curt Miller went 14-20 in his first season in Connecticut, and would now probably be considered one of the better coaches in the league. Smith might get there given some time, however much of a disaster this year has been.



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GEF34



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PostPosted: 08/05/18 8:25 pm    ::: Re: Star players as coaches Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
So we often hear about how a young guard should play with Seattle to learn from Sue Bird, or a young post can be "mentored" by a veteran -- ignoring the presence of well-paid professional coaches who have at least some background in teaching as well as playing.

Sometimes, of course, the elite player is a good teacher, and is an excellent coach, but it is far from automatic, as Katie Smith shows.

Smith was a great, versatile player who could defend, score, rebound and most of all, understood how to win. She is, unfortunately, not a very good WNBA coach, and may never be.

Smith was also very popular as a player, and fans want to keep their favorites around, so again the tendency is to think that a popular player with the fans will be a good coach.

Neither talent as a player nor popularity with fans and media has much to do with being a successful coach at any level. Coaching in high school is teaching (and some recruiting); coaching in college is recruiting; and coaching in the pros is ego management and strategic savvy. (Oversimplified, of course ...)

At any level, job one is to get your players to play hard, no matter what your method.

Why is there an assumption that Katie Smith or Sue Bird or Kara Lawson or any other "favorite" player will be able to do any of these things? Playing the game is much different from coaching the game, and Katie Smith is far from the only example of that distinction.


Is it fair to say Katie Smith is not a very good WNBA coach and may never be? She is currently in her first year as a head coach coming into a situation where it was unsure if she would have a job or a team to coach for a while. And she was an assistant coach with a successful WNBA team finishing the regular season as one of the top teams in the league and advancing to the playoffs the last 3 years. Maybe a head coaching job isn't for her or maybe she just needs more of a transition period, but to say is not a very good WNBA coach and may never be one is a stretch when she has already proven she is a decent to good one, unless you believe she did nothing in her time as an assistant and associate head coach.


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PostPosted: 08/05/18 8:36 pm    ::: Re: Star players as coaches Reply Reply with quote

GEF34 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
So we often hear about how a young guard should play with Seattle to learn from Sue Bird, or a young post can be "mentored" by a veteran -- ignoring the presence of well-paid professional coaches who have at least some background in teaching as well as playing.

Sometimes, of course, the elite player is a good teacher, and is an excellent coach, but it is far from automatic, as Katie Smith shows.

Smith was a great, versatile player who could defend, score, rebound and most of all, understood how to win. She is, unfortunately, not a very good WNBA coach, and may never be.

Smith was also very popular as a player, and fans want to keep their favorites around, so again the tendency is to think that a popular player with the fans will be a good coach.

Neither talent as a player nor popularity with fans and media has much to do with being a successful coach at any level. Coaching in high school is teaching (and some recruiting); coaching in college is recruiting; and coaching in the pros is ego management and strategic savvy. (Oversimplified, of course ...)

At any level, job one is to get your players to play hard, no matter what your method.

Why is there an assumption that Katie Smith or Sue Bird or Kara Lawson or any other "favorite" player will be able to do any of these things? Playing the game is much different from coaching the game, and Katie Smith is far from the only example of that distinction.


Is it fair to say Katie Smith is not a very good WNBA coach and may never be? She is currently in her first year as a head coach coming into a situation where it was unsure if she would have a job or a team to coach for a while. And she was an assistant coach with a successful WNBA team finishing the regular season as one of the top teams in the league and advancing to the playoffs the last 3 years. Maybe a head coaching job isn't for her or maybe she just needs more of a transition period, but to say is not a very good WNBA coach and may never be one is a stretch when she has already proven she is a decent to good one, unless you believe she did nothing in her time as an assistant and associate head coach.

It's fair to say she may never be, but it's also only a guess IMO.
Right now there's obviously nothing to suggest she's going to be a great coach, but there are also enough other factors for me to give her plenty of benefit of the doubt, and I also see no reason why she couldn't improve on her rookie head coaching ability.

I can understand NY fans' frustration at this awful season, but Katie's contribution is just one piece of the awfulness pie IMO. Dolan didn't give her a fair chance to success this season. (Which is not to say that NY fans aren't justified in wanting a change)



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PostPosted: 08/06/18 10:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hell Sandy Brondello took pretty much the same path .



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