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Randy



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PostPosted: 08/02/18 6:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Maybe the sheer volume of flights and destinations makes it unworkable, but I always thought a sponsorship/partnetrship deal with a major airline would've made a lot of sense. Make somebody the Official Airline of the WNBA, give them a few ads somewhere, and rather than a basic lump sum get preferential treatment for the players to travel in return. Business Class rather than coach when possible, make sure all the exit row seats are reserved for players, and so on.

Maybe charters aren't possible, but improving the current situation might be.


NVM



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pilight



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PostPosted: 08/02/18 7:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Also, reliability issues with commercial schedules...

https://twitter.com/kaymac_2123/status/1025179027424694277

Quote:
Going on hour 7 in the airport. Hoping we can get this resolved. Not trying to travel all night with a stop and have to play a big game tomorrow #SOS #CompetitiveDisadvantage #LAPhotobomb 😂



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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 08/02/18 8:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Another thought, I’ve noticed the increase in outspoken NBA support this season. Is it potentially in support of the players in a new agreement?

Lebron James, in particular, has been vocally supportive in NBA players getting their fair share. (See his comments about Steph Curry, whom he isn’t buddy buddy with...a few years ago.)

I’m sure it would help the league to have the men be vocally supportive when it comes up, too.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 08/02/18 9:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Are there enough first class and business seats available on every flight so players could upgrade? If so, how much more money would that be for 12 players over the course of a season?


Chartering a jet would likely be cheaper than upgrading 12 people to first class (assuming only the players get upgraded). A heavy jet charters for about $8500/hour.


It looks like first class is cheaper than charter. Travelocity for 9/11/2018 - JFK to LAX, has economy flights from $119, business class from $312 and first class from $486. If you paid $600 for 17 people [12 players, 4 coaches, 1 trainer] that is $10,200, which is less than $8,500 times the number of hours that flight takes (5?). This site is advertising $46,000 as their cheapest private shuttle flight from NYC to LA.


ChasingRatDogmaSalade



Joined: 05 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: 08/03/18 12:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Also, reliability issues with commercial schedules...

https://twitter.com/kaymac_2123/status/1025179027424694277

Quote:
Going on hour 7 in the airport. Hoping we can get this resolved. Not trying to travel all night with a stop and have to play a big game tomorrow #SOS #CompetitiveDisadvantage #LAPhotobomb 😂


Still at the airport. Fly out at 1:20 am. By the time we get to the hotel in DC we will have been traveling 24 hours.

Good times.

😎


ChasingRatDogmaSalade



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PostPosted: 08/03/18 6:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ChasingRatDogmaSalade wrote:
pilight wrote:
Also, reliability issues with commercial schedules...

https://twitter.com/kaymac_2123/status/1025179027424694277

Quote:
Going on hour 7 in the airport. Hoping we can get this resolved. Not trying to travel all night with a stop and have to play a big game tomorrow #SOS #CompetitiveDisadvantage #LAPhotobomb 😂


Still at the airport. Fly out at 1:20 am. By the time we get to the hotel in DC we will have been traveling 24 hours.

Good times.

😎


Made it to Dallas. Our flight out of here is delayed 35 minutes already, and we are now scheduled to arrive in Washington at 1:30 pm ET.


Randy



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PostPosted: 08/03/18 7:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Some of the same issues that impact commercial flights also impact charter - weather, air traffic control issues and plane mechanical/maintenance issues. I suspect private jets would be better, but its not like they would never take off or arrive late.

Anyway - today sounds like a good day to take the Mystics if you are betting actual money...



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pilight



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PostPosted: 08/03/18 7:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Flight delays is a better argument for eliminating back-to-backs than for charter travel.

You might get a delay with a charter, but a sudden cancellation leading to hours and hours of sitting at the airport would be unlikely.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 08/03/18 7:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wonder how much penny pinching teams do (or are allowed to do) in terms of picking cheaper flights that require more stops and longer travel times. Just for example, flying from say Chicago to Atlanta would a bit over an hour non stop, but stops along the way could make it a pretty long trip and one much more prone to complications and delays.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 08/03/18 10:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe the CBA could include a clause about non-stops only ...



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pilight



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PostPosted: 08/03/18 10:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Maybe the CBA could include a clause about non-stops only ...


Or at least when possible. Not sure non-stops are always available into Hartford from the west coast, for example.



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ChasingRatDogmaSalade



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PostPosted: 08/03/18 10:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Players are all on flights to D.C. Should arrive at hotel at about 3 pm.

Certain staff members, however ......

Evil or Very Mad


pilight



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PostPosted: 08/03/18 10:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
pilight wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Are there enough first class and business seats available on every flight so players could upgrade? If so, how much more money would that be for 12 players over the course of a season?


Chartering a jet would likely be cheaper than upgrading 12 people to first class (assuming only the players get upgraded). A heavy jet charters for about $8500/hour.


It looks like first class is cheaper than charter. Travelocity for 9/11/2018 - JFK to LAX, has economy flights from $119, business class from $312 and first class from $486. If you paid $600 for 17 people [12 players, 4 coaches, 1 trainer] that is $10,200, which is less than $8,500 times the number of hours that flight takes (5?). This site is advertising $46,000 as their cheapest private shuttle flight from NYC to LA.


I don't know how many people travel with the teams. I'd guess at least 20. The more people, the more cost effective a charter would be.



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 08/03/18 10:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Today's cancellation puts the cost of charters in perspective. Washington loses 6% of its home revenue because the other team has travel issues. Whether one team or the other is ultimately made liable, this not only hurts total revenue; it is also a big black eye for the WNBA. Regardless of what is decided some teams (including both players and fans) will feel like the decision directly hurts them.

The CBA needs to cover many issues, and ideally players and owners can make decisions about how the limited resources of the league can be allocated among player salaries (and benefits) and administrative expenses. Both groups should be doing all they can to increase revenues.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 9:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't know about this: Would I rather have $10,000 more in my pocket (guessing on the number) or fly on a charter to every game?

I think I'd take the cash but ...

If there are two flights involved in every road game (34) and one for every home game (17), that's 51 flights. Call it 50 to make the math easy, and if the salary number is $10,000, that's $200 out of my pocket every time I get on a plane. (The real number of flights is probably closer to 30 ...)

To put it another way, would I fly commercial if someone gave me $200, or would I go with the charter?

If the negotiation that allowed charter flights was a choice between $5,000 in salary and charters, would $100 be enough to make me want to fly commercial?



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pilight



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 9:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
If there are two flights involved in every road game (34) and one for every home game (17), that's 51 flights. Call it 50 to make the math easy, and if the salary number is $10,000, that's $200 out of my pocket every time I get on a plane. (The real number of flights is probably closer to 30 )


I was just looking at that. If we assume that the team is flying direct from one road game to the next unless there are more than four days between them then Atlanta's schedule would mean 31 flights this season. The only time the four day rule comes into effect is next week, when they're in New York on the 12th and Phoenix on the 17th, and in the preseason; May 6th and 11th, then the season opener on the 20th. I'm guessing the team comes home between those games.



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SportsGuru



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 10:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The NBA by having the WNBA on ABC and ESPN is showcasing the WNBA as Major League, you don't see Roller Derby on ABC or ESPN. The NBA should start supplying WNBA Teams with a Charter Airline Service (sorta like a Flying Uber).


pilight



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 10:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SportsGuru wrote:
The NBA by having the WNBA on ABC and ESPN is showcasing the WNBA as Major League, you don't see Roller Derby on ABC or ESPN. The NBA should start supplying WNBA Teams with a Charter Airline Service (sorta like a Flying Uber).


Roller Derby on ESPN

https://wftda.tv/espn/



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SportsGuru



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 10:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
SportsGuru wrote:
The NBA by having the WNBA on ABC and ESPN is showcasing the WNBA as Major League, you don't see Roller Derby on ABC or ESPN. The NBA should start supplying WNBA Teams with a Charter Airline Service (sorta like a Flying Uber).


Roller Derby on ESPN

https://wftda.tv/espn/


Big fan of Roller Derby, I hope they stream the Championship live on ESPN3 in November 2018. Notice it's ESPN3 not ABC or ESPN or ESPN2 TV


Randy



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 10:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Roller Derby is now a respected grass roots sports phenom whose participants are mainly women.

http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=88579&highlight=roller+derby



Quote:
I went to a Roller Derby match last night. Its no longer WWE on wheels, but has morphed into a sport run by and for women to compete in a demanding, physical team sport. Pretty fun - there are lots of teams in most major cities. Might be worth checking out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roller_derby



Quote:
Modern roller derby is an international sport dominated by all-female amateur teams, in addition to a growing number of male, unisex, and junior roller derby teams, and was (as a roller sport) under consideration for the 2020 Summer Olympics.[6][7][8] Most modern leagues (their back-office volunteers included) share a strong "do it yourself" ethic[9] which combines athleticism and elements from camp.[10] As of 2014, the Women's Flat Track Derby Association (WFTDA), had 243 full member leagues and 114 Apprentice Leagu



Quote:
A large number of contemporary roller derby leagues are amateur, self-organized and all-female [64] and were formed in a DIY spirit by relatively new roller derby enthusiasts.[65] In many leagues (particularly but not exclusively in the U.S.), a punk[66][67] aesthetic and/or third-wave feminist[68] ethic is prominent.[69] Furthermore, roller derby teams are typically composed of members of various social strata such as stay-at-home mothers, lawyers, and nurses,[70] and "Being gay/straight/bi/trans is simply no big deal, as long as you can skate."[71] Members of fledgling leagues often practice and strategize together, regardless of team affiliation, between bouts.[72] Most compete on flat tracks, though several leagues skate on banked tracks, with more in the planning stages.[73][74]




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SportsGuru



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PostPosted: 08/04/18 11:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Roller Derby is now a respected grass roots sports phenom whose participants are mainly women.

http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=88579&highlight=roller+derby



Quote:
I went to a Roller Derby match last night. Its no longer WWE on wheels, but has morphed into a sport run by and for women to compete in a demanding, physical team sport. Pretty fun - there are lots of teams in most major cities. Might be worth checking out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roller_derby

Quote:
Modern roller derby is an international sport dominated by all-female amateur teams, in addition to a growing number of male, unisex, and junior roller derby teams, and was (as a roller sport) under consideration for the 2020 Summer Olympics.[6][7][8] Most modern leagues (their back-office volunteers included) share a strong "do it yourself" ethic[9] which combines athleticism and elements from camp.[10] As of 2014, the Women's Flat Track Derby Association (WFTDA), had 243 full member leagues and 114 Apprentice Leagu



Quote:
A large number of contemporary roller derby leagues are amateur, self-organized and all-female [64] and were formed in a DIY spirit by relatively new roller derby enthusiasts.[65] In many leagues (particularly but not exclusively in the U.S.), a punk[66][67] aesthetic and/or third-wave feminist[68] ethic is prominent.[69] Furthermore, roller derby teams are typically composed of members of various social strata such as stay-at-home mothers, lawyers, and nurses,[70] and "Being gay/straight/bi/trans is simply no big deal, as long as you can skate."[71] Members of fledgling leagues often practice and strategize together, regardless of team affiliation, between bouts.[72] Most compete on flat tracks, though several leagues skate on banked tracks, with more in the planning stages.[73][74]



Back in the day Wash, DC had a Roller Derby team name the Cats who played at the Uline Arena Ice House, New York had the Bombers , there was a Texas Outlaws and Cali Bay Warriors teams too.


patsweetpat



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PostPosted: 08/05/18 10:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Why substantially increasing WNBA player salaries is more complex than you think

http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/24247429/why-increasing-wnba-player-salaries-more-complex-think

Quote:
"Are we going to talk about the CBA, too?" Phoenix's Diana Taurasi asked.


From that article, this quote by Taurasi:
"I've said the WNBA is the most communist business you'll ever be in," she said. "And it's funny, I spent 12 years in a communist country feeling the benefits of a free economy. It's bizarre to me that I've lived in this paradigm. I've lived the American dream somewhere else."

FWIW, the Russian sports teams for which Taurasi has played are directly subsidized by the Russian government. When DT says she's been "feeling the benefits of a free economy", what she apparently means is that she's benefitted from a foreign government's financial largesse. That's fine, so far as it goes. I don't begrudge DT taking the money that's been offered to her. I just wish she wouldn't point to the arrangement as some sort of free-market exemplar, in order to comparatively sh*t-talk the W.


Randy



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PostPosted: 08/05/18 10:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

patsweetpat wrote:
pilight wrote:
Why substantially increasing WNBA player salaries is more complex than you think

http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/24247429/why-increasing-wnba-player-salaries-more-complex-think

Quote:
"Are we going to talk about the CBA, too?" Phoenix's Diana Taurasi asked.


From that article, this quote by Taurasi:
"I've said the WNBA is the most communist business you'll ever be in," she said. "And it's funny, I spent 12 years in a communist country feeling the benefits of a free economy. It's bizarre to me that I've lived in this paradigm. I've lived the American dream somewhere else."

FWIW, the Russian sports teams for which Taurasi has played are directly subsidized by the Russian government. When DT says she's been "feeling the benefits of a free economy", what she apparently means is that she's benefitted from a foreign government's financial largesse. That's fine, so far as it goes. I don't begrudge DT taking the money that's been offered to her. I just wish she wouldn't point to the arrangement as some sort of free-market exemplar, in order to comparatively sh*t-talk the W.


They pay her a lot of money. That's a free enough economy for her.



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patsweetpat



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PostPosted: 08/05/18 10:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
patsweetpat wrote:
pilight wrote:
Why substantially increasing WNBA player salaries is more complex than you think

http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/24247429/why-increasing-wnba-player-salaries-more-complex-think

Quote:
"Are we going to talk about the CBA, too?" Phoenix's Diana Taurasi asked.


From that article, this quote by Taurasi:
"I've said the WNBA is the most communist business you'll ever be in," she said. "And it's funny, I spent 12 years in a communist country feeling the benefits of a free economy. It's bizarre to me that I've lived in this paradigm. I've lived the American dream somewhere else."

FWIW, the Russian sports teams for which Taurasi has played are directly subsidized by the Russian government. When DT says she's been "feeling the benefits of a free economy", what she apparently means is that she's benefitted from a foreign government's financial largesse. That's fine, so far as it goes. I don't begrudge DT taking the money that's been offered to her. I just wish she wouldn't point to the arrangement as some sort of free-market exemplar, in order to comparatively sh*t-talk the W.


They pay her a lot of money. That's a free enough economy for her.


Honestly, that's probably exactly what she means.

"I get paid a lot of money, even if it's government money" = "a free economy" and "the American dream".

Okay. I'm not sure how the WNBA is supposed to go about emulating that particular "business" model, but okay.


GEF34



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PostPosted: 08/05/18 11:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

patsweetpat wrote:
Randy wrote:
patsweetpat wrote:
pilight wrote:
Why substantially increasing WNBA player salaries is more complex than you think

http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/24247429/why-increasing-wnba-player-salaries-more-complex-think

Quote:
"Are we going to talk about the CBA, too?" Phoenix's Diana Taurasi asked.


From that article, this quote by Taurasi:
"I've said the WNBA is the most communist business you'll ever be in," she said. "And it's funny, I spent 12 years in a communist country feeling the benefits of a free economy. It's bizarre to me that I've lived in this paradigm. I've lived the American dream somewhere else."

FWIW, the Russian sports teams for which Taurasi has played are directly subsidized by the Russian government. When DT says she's been "feeling the benefits of a free economy", what she apparently means is that she's benefitted from a foreign government's financial largesse. That's fine, so far as it goes. I don't begrudge DT taking the money that's been offered to her. I just wish she wouldn't point to the arrangement as some sort of free-market exemplar, in order to comparatively sh*t-talk the W.


They pay her a lot of money. That's a free enough economy for her.


Honestly, that's probably exactly what she means.

"I get paid a lot of money, even if it's government money" = "a free economy" and "the American dream".

Okay. I'm not sure how the WNBA is supposed to go about emulating that particular "business" model, but okay.


I don't believe all teams overseas are subsidized by the government, and from all I've read about the team Diana Taurasi played from, it's not subsidized by the government. If you have an article or something that says otherwise I would love to read it.

And on a separate but kind of related, I had a friend play overseas for a couple of years and her entire contract was paid by a sponsor. So even if the government did subsidize her team in anyway, it wasn't included in her contract to directly receive any of it.



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