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Liberty @ Wings - 7/17/18
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Who will win this game?
Liberty
41%
 41%  [ 7 ]
Wings
58%
 58%  [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 17

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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 07/17/18 6:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
The question is why didnt the Liberty double heck even triple team Cambage from the start or when they saw that she was on FIRE Laughing Laughing Laughing


Maybe because she knew they didn't have a Triple Chance in hell to stop the Cambeastttt Exclamation


More of a chance then defending her 1 on 1 Laughing when something doesnt work then you try something else. You make defensive adjustments. That didnt happen in this game Laughing Even Cambage was looking like come on now your insulting me by defending me (or trying to defend) like this Laughing


+1 i noticed this as well , she made up her mind if your going to just give me w/e im going to take it ALL .



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PostPosted: 07/17/18 6:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They made Romero take out earrings. Don’t know what their size or shape was, but I have seen a couple of players with fingernails that stuck out, and
I would not allow that for similar reasons. Although I think long fingernails are more dangerous.




Last edited by tfan on 07/17/18 7:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: 07/17/18 6:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
RavenDog wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
LibFan25 wrote:
When Nurse is locked in like that hitin shots, she's fun to watch. too bad she doesnt get the minutes she used to in the begining of the season Rolling Eyes


I have said this repeatedly over many weeks: Kia Nurse should play 25 to 30 minutes per game no matter what. Though she's still a rookie, I view her as the second best player on the team.

With the Liberty at 7-14, Nurse should be out there even if she's playing badly. To help her get more comfortable with the level of play in the WNBA. And to give Katie Smith and the staff more insight into how to best use her in the future.


+1 No brainer Bob... Puzzling?


Nurse scored 34 points vs. Indiana on June 2nd (NY Liberty rookie record) and 25 points today. In between, Nurse's minutes were substantially reduced in favor of other players and New York was 5-12. "Puzzling" is one appropriate word. Others I'd use aren't polite. Smile


I like Nurse and see her as part of the future but this argument ignores the fact that in our last two games where we won Nurse played 15 minute with 4 points and 10 minute with 2. Boyd has been improving by leaps and bounds. The Liberty win when Zellous score in double digits. Prince is making bigger contributions.

Maybe with today performance Nurse will get more minutes, but she isn't the key to our victories or losses.


Of course Nurse isn't the key to our victories and losses. I never said she was. But her minutes were drastically reduced and the team had a dreadful stretch during that time. Benching her sure didn't help. Are you really making a big deal of New York winning TWO games in a row where Nurse didn't have good numbers? Seriously?

Prince and Zellous were playing a lot in that 5-12 stretch that killed the season. I definitely don't want to single them out for fault; there's plenty to go around. But your statements about them are rather unconvincing.


I'm not making a big deal of it I am just explaining why the coach might be giving other players the minutes. Nurse had has some great games and some not so great games. In the teams last two victories she didn't do a lot and the team still won. Those were the most recent games and one of two times we won two in a row so of course that will influence the thought process on who should be on the floor.

I'm pretty sure Smith is still trying to win games. Maybe playing Nurse would accomplish this, maybe not. While I might not agree with it 100% I can understand why Smith might think vets Boyd, Prince and Zellous (and even Rodgers and Hartley) are a safer bet to get wins than this years #10 pick. Nurse played great today and I'm sure it will lead to more minutes, but the perimeter rotation all season once everyone was healthy has been who ever is showing best at the moment with emphasis on the vets Smith has worked with in years past.

Prince and Zellous are the starters at the 2 and the 3. Should Nurse be starting ahead of them? Boyd and Hartley split the PG spot. It is hard to find 25-30 minute a night for Nurse unless this set up changes. ANd that is with Rodgers and R. Allen getting nothing. For Nurse to get more minutes Prince or Zellous have to get less. Even if I kind of think that would be OK I don't see the coach going in that direction. And I can understand why she thinks that. I don't think Nurse getting 25-30 minutes a night is as much of a "no brainer", or as "puzzling" as others do, that is all I'm trying to point out.


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PostPosted: 07/17/18 7:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There’s legit reasons to play Piph and Z. Both create for themselves and teammates. Z also has all that speed. But I’m lost as to why Sugar has gotten minutes over Nurse. Nurse is better at every facet of basketball than Sugar. Every single one. Handle, passing, defense, rebounding, shooting, penetrating and scoring. Sugar is close in some areas. Defense might be a tie. But Nurse dominates her in versatility.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 07/17/18 8:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kayla Davis was out for personal reasons.

Aerial Powers didn’t play in the first half. Wings had Stevens at the 3, with George as 4, and Cambage at 5, at times.

Skylar Diggins is one of 50 most fashionable and stylish athletes by Sports Illustrated. Her style was described as sophisticated on the red carpet and her off-duty look is tomboy chic.


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PostPosted: 07/17/18 8:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ugh. From the feel good game of the year straight back to the cruel reality of the 2018 season.

Kia Nurse needs to be given high minutes next game to allow her to build on what she did today. I actually agreed with her reduction in minutes, and I felt she needed to prove herself in the limited minutes she got, so long as the Liberty were trying to make the playoffs. She was doing nothing in those minutes.

Well, today she proved herself, got more minutes because of it, and proved herself again. The playoffs are becoming an increasingly unrealistic proposition. She needs to be in there again next game. For her confidence, for her development, and for the team to have the best chance of making the playoffs, however slim those chances may be.

Still, it's all so strange. In the Sky win, Sugar Rodgers had her best game of the season and Nurse was a complete non-factor. So who does Katie go to the next game? Nurse, and Kia was brilliant, and this time Sugar is the non-factor. Based on what's been going on, I have no idea what Katie will do next with these two, and for what reason.


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PostPosted: 07/17/18 9:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dallas played a large front line with Gray at guard. Nurse made sense from a size standpoint. Either that or maybe Sugar was sick or something. Either way I feel that Nurse probably knew ahead of time she’d be getting minutes. It’s a chicken or egg question. She looked much less tentative from the moment she stepped on the floor though.



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PostPosted: 07/17/18 9:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not gonna lie...I was HIGHLY impressed with Kia Nurse. Where the hell was this player at UCONN. She's persuaded me id rather see her starting over Piph right now.



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PostPosted: 07/17/18 9:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'll keep saying: I believe Nurse's tentative play came mainly BECAUSE Katie Smith suddenly reduced her minutes. Even veterans have great games and bad games. Nurse is only a rookie; of course she'll have off nights. But early in the season she was NOT tentative. And then Smith substantially reduced Nurse's minutes on the court.



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PostPosted: 07/17/18 9:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Not gonna lie...I was HIGHLY impressed with Kia Nurse. Where the hell was this player at UCONN. She's persuaded me id rather see her starting over Piph right now.


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PostPosted: 07/17/18 9:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYSports56 wrote:
U
Based on what's been going on, I have no idea what Katie will do next with these two, and for what reason.


coin flip?



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PostPosted: 07/17/18 10:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
I'll keep saying: I believe Nurse's tentative play came mainly BECAUSE Katie Smith suddenly reduced her minutes.

That's not true; her tentative play and lack of production came before her reduction in minutes by several games. What coincided exactly with the drop in effectiveness was the availability of Sugar Rodgers. It just never clicked for Kia once Sugar was playing.

It might be Katie's fault for changing things in the offense and rotations to accomodate Sugar. The bottom line, Nurse didn't perform well after that, and it wasn't hard for me to see why Kia's minutes were reduced with the Liberty still trying to make a playoff run.


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PostPosted: 07/17/18 10:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Liz broke the scoring record with 53 points against New York. That's bad news for the Sky. She might break Wilt Chamberlain record against the Sky and score 120 points! Shocked



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PostPosted: 07/17/18 10:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Liz by Qtr

1st - 11 Pts
2nd - 17 Pts
3rd- 5 pts (Obviously the liberty comeback)
4th -20 Pts (She outscores the entire liberty team by herself)

Liz is the biggest problem in the W right now. Washington is most likely scratching their heads on a gameplan. Chicago has already been demolished. Connecticut is an intriguing matchup although i dont think they can handle liz neither. They might be better suited to play against dallas more so than anyone. We have yet to meet them this season til this sunday .



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PostPosted: 07/17/18 11:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYSports56 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
I'll keep saying: I believe Nurse's tentative play came mainly BECAUSE Katie Smith suddenly reduced her minutes.

That's not true; her tentative play and lack of production came before her reduction in minutes by several games. What coincided exactly with the drop in effectiveness was the availability of Sugar Rodgers. It just never clicked for Kia once Sugar was playing.

It might be Katie's fault for changing things in the offense and rotations to accomodate Sugar. The bottom line, Nurse didn't perform well after that, and it wasn't hard for me to see why Kia's minutes were reduced with the Liberty still trying to make a playoff run.


Hey, I concede. It was a brilliant plan to make the playoffs by greatly reducing Nurse's minutes and giving them to Prince, Zellous, Rodgers, Hartley, whomever. But there was that little problem of going 2-9 and blowing the season.

Perhaps that would have happened anyway with Nurse continuing to play major minutes. Certainly possible. No way is she good enough to overcome all the weaknesses of the roster, including her own. But we do know what Smith's choice was for the team's "playoff run" and what the result was.



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PostPosted: 07/17/18 11:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Teams need to talk a lot on defense and constantly refer to her as CAMbige, not camBAAJE.


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PostPosted: 07/18/18 4:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Cambage's performance made on to Sportscenter last night.

https://www.facebook.com/dallaswings/videos/2042409072437455/?t=9



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 7:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Liz can just lift a little more and get to 60 points, maybe she'll even get onto the ESPNW 25 Surprised




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PostPosted: 07/18/18 9:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Regarding Nurse, this is the first game she came out ahead of Rodgers in the rotations since Sugar returned. It was also her best game since Sugar returned. Probably not a coincidence.

Secondly but maybe more importantly, just watch the offense. In sets designed to get wing players the ball (1-4, horns (1-2-2)) the first pass in the offense is almost always to the 2-guard. Where did Nurse play predominantly yesterday? 2-guard, since a lot of her minutes coincided with Zellous. When you’re getting the ball early in the offense, you can do more stuff with the ball. Hence we saw Nurse penetrate consistently for the first time in awhile. Folks, watch this closely. It’s not idle chatter. It’s fact. When Sugar and Nurse play together, the first pass in the offense goes to Sugar a vast majority of the time. I made this point a few games ago. So it’s not really a surprise to me that when she got the ball yesterday as a primary offensive option, she made things happen.

Unfortunately due to early season slip ups, especially in close winnable games, another loss just puts us just another game below .500. Unlike some of our other losses, I think yesterday was one you kind of tip your hat to Liz given how she hit shots from everywhere. I think it’s one we would have lost even if we were 14-7 instead of 7-14. Well, the 38 free throws allowed not withstanding.

I get that we aren’t going to get a plethora of calls with some of our player styles, though Boyd is starting to with more controlled penetrations. My beef is more with the calls against us. It’s not like it’s primarily foul calls getting beat off the dribble. I can live with those. But we’re not getting the same exact calls that other teams get against us. And in a game like yesterday where every ticky-tack foul was called (Dallas was in the bonus with 6 minutes left in the second quarter), watching Tina constantly get hurled around in the post by Thornton and Johnson was pretty annoying. Sometimes officiating dictates the way you play. When that happens on one end but you’re allowed very limited post contact with a 6’8” 250 player on the other end, it makes it that much harder to defend. I’m just asking for there to be consistent standards on both ends. We haven’t seen it, even when the Libs are aggressive, playing well and in attack mode. In the past, maybe that would help. This year it doesn’t at all. Though it does seem like the calls overwhelmingly lean toward a faster style of play. I feel like we need McCowan or Brown in the draft. With either I think we’d get better fast...particularly with Brown since she can score. But I’m also wondering how that will play with the league moving toward Howard/Stewie types of combos. That said, it would make our interior defense better, which is still much needed.



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 9:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Though from the outside, I would say Nurse should play ahead of Sugar Rodgers, who is at best an average WNBA player while Nurse might, with playing time, be above-average, again, if you're not at practice every day and around the team, it's very hard to really understand how playing time is distributed.

Maybe Sugar dominates Kia in practice on a regular basis; maybe Sugar is on the spots on the floor where the coaches want her to be and Kia doesn't do that as often. We don't know and really can't know ...

I would hope there's some reason, because just looking at the games, there seems to be zero justification for giving Sugar more minutes ...



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 9:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Kaela Davis out for personal reasons. Let's kick up the trade speculation.


Yes, there's surely a market for a shooting guard who can't shoot



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 10:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Shades wrote:
Kaela Davis out for personal reasons. Let's kick up the trade speculation.


Yes, there's surely a market for a shooting guard who can't shoot


You’re just nervous that ATL wants her. Don’t you like her better than third rounder Alexis Prince? She’s more than just a SG. She’s an easy 6’1 and a decent facilitator. Can do spot duty at PF. Maybe a change of scenery is just the thing she needs. I doubt she’d be a poison pill for you.



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 10:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
pilight wrote:
Shades wrote:
Kaela Davis out for personal reasons. Let's kick up the trade speculation.


Yes, there's surely a market for a shooting guard who can't shoot


You’re just nervous that ATL wants her. Don’t you like her better than third rounder Alexis Prince? She’s more than just a SG. She’s an easy 6’1 and a decent facilitator. Can do spot duty at PF. Maybe a change of scenery is just the thing she needs. I doubt she’d be a poison pill for you.


She could sit on the end of the bench as well as Prince, I'm sure

She's not a facilitator. She has a lower AST% than Liz Cambage. She can't play PF, she's a terrible rebounder. There's nothing she does well enough to merit being on the floor.

If ATL wanted her, I'd be worried about their talent evaluation skills.



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 10:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

She probably has the same problem most deeper bench players have. They don’t get enough playing time to get into a rhythm. If injuries occur to where these players are forced to get more playing time, the results are often surprising in a good way.



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 10:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
She probably has the same problem most deeper bench players have. They don’t get enough playing time to get into a rhythm. If injuries occur to where these players are forced to get more playing time, the results are often surprising in a good way.


She was getting plenty of minutes earlier in the season and was so bad they benched her.

In games where Davis played 20+ minutes, she shot 35% ( 17/48 ), 15% from three (2/13) and averaged two assists/game with a negative ATO.

If you really thought she was any good, you'd be proposing trades to get her to Minnesota.



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 11:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There’s no need in Minnesota. Zandalasini has that spot wrapped up.

Check out this algebra.

Zandalasini > Kaela Davis (probably)> Alexis Prince

Have you been able to gather an opinion on Alexis Prince without using stats? Everything shouldn’t be about stats.



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 11:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
There’s no need in Minnesota. Zandalasini has that spot wrapped up.

Check out this algebra.

Zandalasini > Kaela Davis (probably)> Alexis Prince

Have you been able to gather an opinion on Alexis Prince without using stats? Everything shouldn’t be about stats.


I should hope your 6th person is better than an end of the bencher. Surely Davis is better than Alexis Jones or Endy Miyem or Tanisha Wright.

Prince hasn't played enough to tell. She did OK in the few garbage time minutes she got.

There's no need in Atlanta either. Hayes and Sykes are both having better years than the Lynx "All Star" starter.



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 11:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/y7z7hjfqIro" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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PostPosted: 07/18/18 12:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Shades wrote:
There’s no need in Minnesota. Zandalasini has that spot wrapped up.

Check out this algebra.

Zandalasini > Kaela Davis (probably)> Alexis Prince

Have you been able to gather an opinion on Alexis Prince without using stats? Everything shouldn’t be about stats.


I should hope your 6th person is better than an end of the bencher. Surely Davis is better than Alexis Jones or Endy Miyem or Tanisha Wright.

Prince hasn't played enough to tell. She did OK in the few garbage time minutes she got.

There's no need in Atlanta either. Hayes and Sykes are both having better years than the Lynx "All Star" starter.


I’m comparing players of the same type and position, while you want to compare 12th men. The Lynx don’t need another backup SF/SG. Jones is part of the PG developmental program. Davis seems like an upgrade to Prince, but I guess you don’t see it that way.

There might be other teams that could be interested. The Sparks?



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 1:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
pilight wrote:
Shades wrote:
There’s no need in Minnesota. Zandalasini has that spot wrapped up.

Check out this algebra.

Zandalasini > Kaela Davis (probably)> Alexis Prince

Have you been able to gather an opinion on Alexis Prince without using stats? Everything shouldn’t be about stats.


I should hope your 6th person is better than an end of the bencher. Surely Davis is better than Alexis Jones or Endy Miyem or Tanisha Wright.

Prince hasn't played enough to tell. She did OK in the few garbage time minutes she got.

There's no need in Atlanta either. Hayes and Sykes are both having better years than the Lynx "All Star" starter.


I’m comparing players of the same type and position, while you want to compare 12th men. The Lynx don’t need another backup SF/SG. Jones is part of the PG developmental program. Davis seems like an upgrade to Prince, but I guess you don’t see it that way.

There might be other teams that could be interested. The Sparks?


Prince is Atlanta's 12th man. Davis would be Dallas' 12th man if they had 12 healthy players, instead she's 11th. Nobody is going to trade more than a late 2nd round pick for her.



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 3:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Shades wrote:
pilight wrote:
Shades wrote:
There’s no need in Minnesota. Zandalasini has that spot wrapped up.

Check out this algebra.

Zandalasini > Kaela Davis (probably)> Alexis Prince

Have you been able to gather an opinion on Alexis Prince without using stats? Everything shouldn’t be about stats.


I should hope your 6th person is better than an end of the bencher. Surely Davis is better than Alexis Jones or Endy Miyem or Tanisha Wright.

Prince hasn't played enough to tell. She did OK in the few garbage time minutes she got.

There's no need in Atlanta either. Hayes and Sykes are both having better years than the Lynx "All Star" starter.


I’m comparing players of the same type and position, while you want to compare 12th men. The Lynx don’t need another backup SF/SG. Jones is part of the PG developmental program. Davis seems like an upgrade to Prince, but I guess you don’t see it that way.

There might be other teams that could be interested. The Sparks?


Prince is Atlanta's 12th man. Davis would be Dallas' 12th man if they had 12 healthy players, instead she's 11th. Nobody is going to trade more than a late 2nd round pick for her.


I wasn’t thinking first round pick. Doesn’t ATL still have their own becoming-late 2nd round pick?

Anyway, nobody is too sure about Davis’ situation. EWill and Gulich had real cases of personal time needed. Davis probably does too. Only Courtney Williams had a case of personal time that led to a teammate being traded. Not the same, I know.



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 3:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
pilight wrote:
Shades wrote:
pilight wrote:
Shades wrote:
There’s no need in Minnesota. Zandalasini has that spot wrapped up.

Check out this algebra.

Zandalasini > Kaela Davis (probably)> Alexis Prince

Have you been able to gather an opinion on Alexis Prince without using stats? Everything shouldn’t be about stats.


I should hope your 6th person is better than an end of the bencher. Surely Davis is better than Alexis Jones or Endy Miyem or Tanisha Wright.

Prince hasn't played enough to tell. She did OK in the few garbage time minutes she got.

There's no need in Atlanta either. Hayes and Sykes are both having better years than the Lynx "All Star" starter.


I’m comparing players of the same type and position, while you want to compare 12th men. The Lynx don’t need another backup SF/SG. Jones is part of the PG developmental program. Davis seems like an upgrade to Prince, but I guess you don’t see it that way.

There might be other teams that could be interested. The Sparks?


Prince is Atlanta's 12th man. Davis would be Dallas' 12th man if they had 12 healthy players, instead she's 11th. Nobody is going to trade more than a late 2nd round pick for her.


I wasn’t thinking first round pick. Doesn’t ATL still have their own becoming-late 2nd round pick?

Anyway, nobody is too sure about Davis’ situation. EWill and Gulich had real cases of personal time needed. Davis probably does too. Only Courtney Williams had a case of personal time that led to a teammate being traded. Not the same, I know.


Atlanta doesn't need her. We got a comparable player in Prince for nothing.

The Lynx do have a need. Next season, when Augustus is retired or further regressed and Zandalasini is playing for her national team trying to qualify for the Olympics, they're gonna be hurting.



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Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 49193



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PostPosted: 07/18/18 3:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Maya re-signs with the Lynx and she doesn’t return to Russia. I think the Lynx will be fine.



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