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Who will win this game? |
Liberty |
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40% |
[ 9 ] |
Aces |
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59% |
[ 13 ] |
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Total Votes : 22 |
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22470 Location: NJ
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Posted: 06/23/18 8:30 am ::: |
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Smith needs to play Zahui B more. She's turned into our second best post option. Vaughn has slightly improved since she joined the team, and Stokes really hasn't done much of anything this season. Prince was useless last night. Our guards need to find their shots. When Tina is having an off night, it seems like a near guarantee that we'll lose. Not expecting anything better on Sunday vs. LA
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12494 Location: Dallas , Texas
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 06/23/18 9:20 am ::: |
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Vaughn is at least playing better defensively than before, which was my main gripe. When she’s hitting shots Zahui can stretch defenses. She’s also developed some step-through moves that are pretty effective inside.
Last night rotations included Sugar/Prince splitting time at the 2 and Coleman/Nurse splitting time at 3. I get that the schedule is congested but we are moving past the point where it matters. I like trying to use Boyd’s speed down the stretch as it’s worked for us in the past. But in the past we’ve also gotten key fourth quarter stops. Last night even with better defensive play we did not. Nurse needs to play 25-28 minutes. The Libs are clearly better when she does.
It’s also evident Stokes isn’t right, which is obviously impacting the D. The team...obviously...isn’t good enough offensively to win without playing D at a high level. I’m really concerned about the value of the team moving forward.
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snlMINAJ
Joined: 21 Jan 2010 Posts: 1203
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Posted: 06/23/18 1:44 pm ::: |
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a move needs to be made asap. a post and 1 or 2 guards for something of quality please.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 06/23/18 2:25 pm ::: |
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snlMINAJ wrote: |
a move needs to be made asap. a post and 1 or 2 guards for something of quality please. |
It's a lovely thought. And just how do you propose that we convince some other team's GM to give up "something of quality" for two or three players who aren't?
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LibFan25
Joined: 01 Sep 2012 Posts: 893 Location: NY
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Posted: 06/23/18 2:59 pm ::: |
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toad455 wrote: |
Smith needs to play Zahui B more. She's turned into our second best post option. Vaughn has slightly improved since she joined the team, and Stokes really hasn't done much of anything this season. Prince was useless last night. Our guards need to find their shots. When Tina is having an off night, it seems like a near guarantee that we'll lose. Not expecting anything better on Sunday vs. LA |
i agree on Zahui needs to play more, she's a better scoring option then butterfingers Vaughn. disagree on Vaughn, she can't rebound, she can't shoot, and she can't move. its time to move the dead weight
i think Stokes is hurt or just tired...she's not the same player no doubt
i thought Boyd played well until the last few mins of the game, i think Katie should put Boyd in defense situations and put Hartley in on offense situations in late games. i love Boyd but she still can't shoot well
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 06/23/18 3:35 pm ::: |
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I'm at a point where I just can't feel comfortable when Zahui is on the court. Her judgment and self-control are usually poor. Amanda is effective at times on offense, but she is a liability when it comes to team defense. Zahui doesn't switch well or pick up the right person when the other team moves and screens. She also indiscriminately swats and reaches-in any time someone with the ball is nearby. I just feel Amanda is a foul or turnover waiting to happen.
Regarding the Liberty's inability to draw fouls in the paint, partly it's the way they function. Tina tends to back in slowly, then she fades away with a jumper or she goes straight up with the hook. Compare that to Wilson who is driving or cutting through the lane. A'ja is moving fast, usually toward the basket, which forces opponents to grab and reach in. Tina should take a lesson from Wilson and play the same way. We know she can do it because we've seen Charles drive on bigger players like Griner and Cambage. In fact, Tina used to regularly have good games against Griner using drives. I'm sure Tina can succeed even against smaller players because anyone she can't fully get around she can muscle through or go over. Unfortunately, these days Tina has fallen in love with her jump shot. She mostly tries to shoot over people -- even Griner. If Tina caught the ball and immediately headed for the basket like Wilson often does, she would get a lot of foul calls too.
The Liberty perimeter players also need to change their approach. The only two players who take it strong to the basket and know how to shield the ball with their body are Zellous and Prince. Sugar almost always takes wild shots when she drives. Boyd takes a lot of wild shot on drives, but she also misses a lot of open layups. Hartley is about 50/50 between strong drives and off-balance floaters. Coleman and Nurse are a mixed bag. The point is if you don't go strong to the hoop AND you also have a history of missing open layups, then I think referees are less likely to give you the call. The fact is, when there are a lot of bodies in the lane blocking the ref's view and everybody is moving, they're not getting a clear look. That means they're probably resorting to guesses half the time. You won't get the benefit of a doubt if you're taking double-pump scoop shots or flinging the ball over your head, and it doesn't help if you regularly miss open layups. If you have a reputation for erratic or passive play around the rim, that makes it too easy for the refs to swallow their whistle.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12494 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 06/23/18 4:44 pm ::: |
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Preach Root_Thing!
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 06/23/18 6:49 pm ::: |
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root_thing wrote: |
I'm at a point where I just can't feel comfortable when Zahui is on the court. Her judgment and self-control are usually poor. Amanda is effective at times on offense, but she is a liability when it comes to team defense. Zahui doesn't switch well or pick up the right person when the other team moves and screens. She also indiscriminately swats and reaches-in any time someone with the ball is nearby. I just feel Amanda is a foul or turnover waiting to happen.
Regarding the Liberty's inability to draw fouls in the paint, partly it's the way they function. Tina tends to back in slowly, then she fades away with a jumper or she goes straight up with the hook. Compare that to Wilson who is driving or cutting through the lane. A'ja is moving fast, usually toward the basket, which forces opponents to grab and reach in. Tina should take a lesson from Wilson and play the same way. We know she can do it because we've seen Charles drive on bigger players like Griner and Cambage. In fact, Tina used to regularly have good games against Griner using drives. I'm sure Tina can succeed even against smaller players because anyone she can't fully get around she can muscle through or go over. Unfortunately, these days Tina has fallen in love with her jump shot. She mostly tries to shoot over people -- even Griner. If Tina caught the ball and immediately headed for the basket like Wilson often does, she would get a lot of foul calls too.
The Liberty perimeter players also need to change their approach. The only two players who take it strong to the basket and know how to shield the ball with their body are Zellous and Prince. Sugar almost always takes wild shots when she drives. Boyd takes a lot of wild shot on drives, but she also misses a lot of open layups. Hartley is about 50/50 between strong drives and off-balance floaters. Coleman and Nurse are a mixed bag. The point is if you don't go strong to the hoop AND you also have a history of missing open layups, then I think referees are less likely to give you the call. The fact is, when there are a lot of bodies in the lane blocking the ref's view and everybody is moving, they're not getting a clear look. That means they're probably resorting to guesses half the time. You won't get the benefit of a doubt if you're taking double-pump scoop shots or flinging the ball over your head, and it doesn't help if you regularly miss open layups. If you have a reputation for erratic or passive play around the rim, that makes it too easy for the refs to swallow their whistle. |
I agree with a good portion of this. I do think Tina goes strong over left shoulder with that hook shot and plays through contact quite a bit without a call, but other than that, my gripe is much more with calls the opposition is getting. Being a good penetrator shouldn't get you automatic calls against stationary defenders. 22 free throw attempts for McCoughtry the other night was obscene, especially when the Libs largely defended the paint quite well.
But anyway, foul calls are also a symptom of having opponents run against you and be more aggressive against you than you are against them. I get it. Not to the extent of a differential of over 6 per game, but I get it. Our style of play is definitely a factor in that free throw differential, no question.
On Zahui, I agree that she is erratic and is not easy to trust. I also think the only way to get her more polished is to get her more minutes. It's a decided catch-22. On one hand, a lottery pick...even one fourth overall...would make a big difference on a team like the Liberty where they might well be one impact player away from taking a significant step forward. On the other hand, that won't matter if the team folds or moves somewhere like the Bay area because they have no value. Playing Zahui might reap you a degree of long-term benefit at possibly some short-term expense if you let her play through her mistakes. The Libs don't, however, have a whole lot of long-term luxury.
I'm still irritated in a variety of ways. I know this team is better in terms of ability than its record indicates. But it's also clearly still functioning more as a group of individuals than as a team.
And again, I'd argue the rotations didn't make sense, though they were clearly defined. Sugar and Piph split the 2. As did Nurse and Coleman at the 3. How Nurse plays fewer minutes with Z out than she did Tuesday with Z in is really a curious question. How Piph goes from not playing to playing 20 minutes (with some of her worst shot selection in a Libs' uniform) really also makes you wonder. Rationing minutes to keep players fresh ain't gonna matter if the team is 7-10, 6-11 or 5-12 at the halfway mark. Which is where we now appear headed.
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Libra_Girl
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Posts: 1237
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Posted: 06/23/18 7:12 pm ::: |
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Aja & McBride are becoming quite a duo.
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StevenHW
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 10979 Location: Sacramento, California
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