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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
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Posted: 06/17/18 12:27 am ::: |
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Zandalasini has really been impressing me, especially on the defensive end where she seemed to be constantly in position and seldom beat off the dribble. She definitely has been deserving of her extended minutes on the floor.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22474 Location: NJ
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Posted: 06/17/18 9:35 am ::: |
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Smith's rotations are confusing. Now with everyone healthy she doesn't seem to know how to use everybody.
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Libra_Girl
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Posts: 1237
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Posted: 06/17/18 10:17 am ::: |
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Looks Minny got themselves a player in Ceclilia if she continues to play like she did in this gm.I even seen her make some nice dimes in a few gms.She was fun to watch yesterday.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32335
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Posted: 06/17/18 10:34 am ::: |
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toad455 wrote: |
Smith's rotations are confusing. Now with everyone healthy she doesn't seem to know how to use everybody. |
That's the nicest way of saying it. It's like a rotating door and trying to see if anybody sticks...but even if they play well, out they come to try out a new piece. It kinda looked like a pre-season mess. I had the feeling, the players were thinking they didn't have long on the floor, so "let me get mine while I can". Team cohesion appears to be at an all-time low. Sad.
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 06/17/18 2:47 pm ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
toad455 wrote: |
Smith's rotations are confusing. Now with everyone healthy she doesn't seem to know how to use everybody. |
That's the nicest way of saying it. It's like a rotating door and trying to see if anybody sticks...but even if they play well, out they come to try out a new piece. It kinda looked like a pre-season mess. I had the feeling, the players were thinking they didn't have long on the floor, so "let me get mine while I can". Team cohesion appears to be at an all-time low. Sad. |
And the defense...whatever the rotations or help were supposed to be, it wasn’t there. They chose not to double Fowles early and they paid for it. So many easy baskets and good looks in general. It was embarrassing.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 06/17/18 6:06 pm ::: |
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Seeing Indy and Vegas improving and watching Chicago be competitive against LA, there’s an argument to be made that the Libs are playing worse than anyone in the league at this moment.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12537 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 06/17/18 6:38 pm ::: |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
Seeing Indy and Vegas improving and watching Chicago be competitive against LA, there’s an argument to be made that the Libs are playing worse than anyone in the league at this moment. |
I had the liberty finishing 10th in my predictions. Too.much relying.on.Tina.
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 06/17/18 6:58 pm ::: |
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WNBA 09 wrote: |
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
Seeing Indy and Vegas improving and watching Chicago be competitive against LA, there’s an argument to be made that the Libs are playing worse than anyone in the league at this moment. |
I had the liberty finishing 10th in my predictions. Too.much relying.on.Tina. |
That’s not the main problem. The offense is statistically better than it was last year. That doesn’t make it good but it’s not the main problem. Giving up 44% FGs and getting outrebounded by 2+ a game is.
Actually the offense is lower than last year in points per 100 however their offense by ranking is still slightly higher. Their defense and rebounding are, on the other hand, much lower.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12537 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 06/17/18 7:37 pm ::: |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
WNBA 09 wrote: |
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
Seeing Indy and Vegas improving and watching Chicago be competitive against LA, there’s an argument to be made that the Libs are playing worse than anyone in the league at this moment. |
I had the liberty finishing 10th in my predictions. Too.much relying.on.Tina. |
That’s not the main problem. The offense is statistically better than it was last year. That doesn’t make it good but it’s not the main problem. Giving up 44% FGs and getting outrebounded by 2+ a game is.
Actually the offense is lower than last year in points per 100 however their offense by ranking is still slightly higher. Their defense and rebounding are, on the other hand, much lower. |
They need another star preferably a SF who can score at a consistent rate . Maybe the liberty can grab KLS or Arike Next season?
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 06/17/18 8:01 pm ::: |
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They have one already. Nurse can play SF. If Stokes isn’t up to the task then they need a post player who can protect the rim and freaking rebound. I’d welcome any talent upgrade at this point but there’s issues here that go beyond talent. You get 5 rebounds in a half on a team that’s supposed to rebound...you have problems.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22474 Location: NJ
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Posted: 06/17/18 9:09 pm ::: |
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So our starters for next season could potentially be Boyd-Prince-Nurse-Charles-McCowan or Brown? Our main bench players would be Zellous-Rodgers-Stokes-Zahui B? I'd prefer our second round pick to be a PG.
PG: Boyd/2nd round pick
SG: Prince/Rodgers/Hartley
SF: Nurse/Zellous
PF: Charles/Zahui B/Raincock-Ekunwe
C: Brown/Stokes
GONE: R. Allen/Vaughn/Coleman
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6800
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Posted: 06/17/18 9:34 pm ::: |
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As much as I think we need a post
and it is too early to be looking to next year
The Liberty need a star on the perimeter
my choices in order ATM
Ogunbowale (star on the court, and if their is such a thing on the Women's side the biggest name off the court, the Liberty need a little OK a lot of both qualities after this season if they are to survive and thrive).
Durr
KLS
fix the post with the 2nd round pick (Anigwe, Sheppard, Jennings or someone else who emerges or falls unexpectedly) and through Free Agency.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22474 Location: NJ
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Posted: 06/17/18 9:38 pm ::: |
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1. Samuelson
2. Durr
3. Ogunbowale
4. Laksa
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 06/17/18 10:20 pm ::: |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
WNBA 09 wrote: |
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
Seeing Indy and Vegas improving and watching Chicago be competitive against LA, there’s an argument to be made that the Libs are playing worse than anyone in the league at this moment. |
I had the liberty finishing 10th in my predictions. Too.much relying.on.Tina. |
That’s not the main problem. The offense is statistically better than it was last year. That doesn’t make it good but it’s not the main problem. Giving up 44% FGs and getting outrebounded by 2+ a game is.
Actually the offense is lower than last year in points per 100 however their offense by ranking is still slightly higher. Their defense and rebounding are, on the other hand, much lower. |
A team that has led the league three years in a row in rebounding and defensive FG% is now 9th and 7th respectively. All the people who predicted that the Liberty would be bad, is this how you envisioned it? Really? Whenever people say the Liberty need another star, they really mean an offensive star. No offensive star is going to fix the rebounding and defense. This is clearly a coaching problem. Whether it's mainly the rotation, the system, individual game plans -- I don't know. But if a team has all of its key players back, and age/health is not the issue, then you should at least be good in these two facets where you used to be great.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11149
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Posted: 06/18/18 11:09 am ::: |
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It just may be that Katie Smith -- no matter how much people like her -- is just not a very good head coach.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66916 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 06/18/18 11:23 am ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
It just may be that Katie Smith -- no matter how much people like her -- is just not a very good head coach. |
She could get better. Lots of coaches struggle at first.
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I ain't got a home
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 06/18/18 12:09 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
It just may be that Katie Smith -- no matter how much people like her -- is just not a very good head coach. |
Either that, or we never realized that Laimbeer was a Phil Jackson/John Wooden/Red Auerbach level coaching superstar.
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010 Posts: 16464 Location: Holland
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Posted: 06/18/18 1:27 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
It just may be that Katie Smith -- no matter how much people like her -- is just not a very good head coach. |
She could get better. Lots of coaches struggle at first. |
And she doesnt have a lot to work with. Bill worked miracles with the talent that he had on this team. That Katie cant do the same in her first year as headcoach is not her fault.
Other teams are just better and have more talent
_________________ "Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 06/18/18 6:02 pm ::: |
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root_thing wrote: |
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
WNBA 09 wrote: |
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
Seeing Indy and Vegas improving and watching Chicago be competitive against LA, there’s an argument to be made that the Libs are playing worse than anyone in the league at this moment. |
I had the liberty finishing 10th in my predictions. Too.much relying.on.Tina. |
That’s not the main problem. The offense is statistically better than it was last year. That doesn’t make it good but it’s not the main problem. Giving up 44% FGs and getting outrebounded by 2+ a game is.
Actually the offense is lower than last year in points per 100 however their offense by ranking is still slightly higher. Their defense and rebounding are, on the other hand, much lower. |
A team that has led the league three years in a row in rebounding and defensive FG% is now 9th and 7th respectively. All the people who predicted that the Liberty would be bad, is this how you envisioned it? Really? Whenever people say the Liberty need another star, they really mean an offensive star. No offensive star is going to fix the rebounding and defense. This is clearly a coaching problem. Whether it's mainly the rotation, the system, individual game plans -- I don't know. But if a team has all of its key players back, and age/health is not the issue, then you should at least be good in these two facets where you used to be great. |
I agree. That’s why the talk of the Liberty not having “the talent” isn’t the main issue. It shows the reliance they have on Kiah. It shouldn’t be that way, but it is. When she’s playing minutes healthy, the Libs defend and rebound. When she doesn’t, they’re average in those areas at best. Especially now that Vaughn is even worse than she was last year. Boyd is playing again and they’ve added Nurse and Coleman. That’s a pretty good amount of talent...at least the first two players.
I’m not pleased and not overwhelmed with optimism right now. But the WNBA with the limited training camp, short season and overseas obligations is a different animal from other sports. Teams regularly look totally different in the second half than they do in the first. Katie has struggled and so has the team. But I wouldn’t be surprised if they all figure it out and turn it around.
To your point though, I think Katie Smith has been the league’s worst coach through the first third of the season. It’s not even a case of average coaching. Things like rotations, lineups and substitutions need to be upgraded. Fast. If not, the hole they dig will be too deep to get out of.
There’s no way Bill would have stuck with this lineup for 8 games without doing something.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
Last edited by NYL_WNBA_FAN on 06/18/18 6:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12537 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 06/18/18 6:12 pm ::: |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
root_thing wrote: |
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
WNBA 09 wrote: |
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
Seeing Indy and Vegas improving and watching Chicago be competitive against LA, there’s an argument to be made that the Libs are playing worse than anyone in the league at this moment. |
I had the liberty finishing 10th in my predictions. Too.much relying.on.Tina. |
That’s not the main problem. The offense is statistically better than it was last year. That doesn’t make it good but it’s not the main problem. Giving up 44% FGs and getting outrebounded by 2+ a game is.
Actually the offense is lower than last year in points per 100 however their offense by ranking is still slightly higher. Their defense and rebounding are, on the other hand, much lower. |
A team that has led the league three years in a row in rebounding and defensive FG% is now 9th and 7th respectively. All the people who predicted that the Liberty would be bad, is this how you envisioned it? Really? Whenever people say the Liberty need another star, they really mean an offensive star. No offensive star is going to fix the rebounding and defense. This is clearly a coaching problem. Whether it's mainly the rotation, the system, individual game plans -- I don't know. But if a team has all of its key players back, and age/health is not the issue, then you should at least be good in these two facets where you used to be great. |
I agree. That’s why the talk of the Liberty not having “the talent” isn’t the main issue. It shows the reliance they have on Kiah. It shouldn’t be that way, but it is. When she’s playing minutes healthy, the Libs defend and rebound. When she doesn’t, they’re average in those areas at best. Especially now that Vaughn is even worse than she was last year. Boyd is playing again and they’ve added Nurse and Coleman. That’s a pretty good amount of talent...at least the first two players.
I’m not pleased and not overwhelmed with optimism right now. But the WNBA with the limited training camp, short season and overseas obligations is a different animal from other sports. Teams regularly look totally different in the second half than they do in the first. Katie has struggled and so has the team. But I wouldn’t be surprised if they all figure it out and turn it around.
To your point though, I think Katie Smith has been the league’s worst coach through the first third of the season. It’s not even a case of average coaching. Things like rotations, lineups and substitutions need to be upgraded. Fast. If not, the hole they dig will be too deep to get out of. |
Id say she's well and beyond ahead of Drop Dead So far this season . So worst coach is kind of a stretch .
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 06/18/18 6:18 pm ::: |
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Your coach didn’t put Christmas at the 4 spot up 2 with Jones and Chiney on the floor together in the fourth quarter. It (Coleman replacing Kia) in that situation was the worst coaching decision I’ve seen in years. That lineup cost us 2 games we should have won. And if we’re 5-4 we aren’t having this conversation. I think we’d be hard-pressed to find a coaching decision elsewhere directly responsible for two losses.
And I rarely criticize coaches.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
Last edited by NYL_WNBA_FAN on 06/18/18 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 06/18/18 6:20 pm ::: |
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WNBA09 - are you are such a homer that you want Fred Williams to be declared the "worst coach?"
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12537 Location: Dallas , Texas
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