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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/06/18 2:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And1 wrote:
toad455 wrote:
The Vegas # from June 24 has been added and the averages updated.


What was the attendance for that game?


4,816



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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 07/09/18 1:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Up to & including games from July 1. The Minnesota @ Las Vegas game on June 24 has been added and the overall average updated. League hitting rock bottom with a lot of 4k & 5k games the past week.

RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(9) - 10,158 (-1,192)
2. Phoenix Mercury(7) - 9,802 (-111)
3. Minnesota Lynx(7) - 9,239 (-1,168)
4. Seattle Storm(11) - 6,749 (-955)
5. Connecticut Sun(6) - 5,931 (-797)
6. Chicago Sky(9) - 5,923 (-660)
7. Indiana Fever(10) - 5,662 (-1,876)
8. Washington Mystics(10) - 5,572 (-2,199)
9. Las Vegas Aces(Cool - 5,531 (-753)
10. Dallas Wings(7) - 4,840 (+968)
11. Atlanta Dream(6) - 4,295 (-157)
12. New York Liberty(9) - 2,321 (-7,568)
WNBA AVERAGE(100) - 6,250 (-1,466)


As compared to games as of July 5, 2017:

toad455 wrote:
Slight dip this past week due to the holiday weekend. We'll see how the crowds look this coming week/weekend.

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Phoenix Mercury(7) - 9,638 (-713)
2. Los Angeles Sparks(7) - 9,527 (-111)
3. Minnesota Lynx(6) - 9,193 (-73)
4. New York Liberty(Cool - 9,025 (-700)
5. Seattle Storm(Cool - 6,756 (-474)
6. Indiana Fever(Cool - 6,650 (-1,925)
7. San Antonio Stars(7) - 6,518 (+133)
8. Connecticut Sun(6) - 6,414 (+577)
9. Washington Mystics(9) - 6,233 (-696)
10. Chicago Sky(7) - 6,081 (-928)
11. Atlanta Dream(6) - 4,134 (-1,480)
12. Dallas Wings(9) - 3,715 (-1,583)
WNBA Average(8Cool - 6,929 (-725)


If you remove the nine home games from New York (as of July 3, 2018), the league average is approximately 6,648 for the eleven other franchises, as of July 3, 2018.


toad455



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PostPosted: 07/10/18 3:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A bad week for July 4 week with 9 games getting under 6k. This week should see a big boost with a lot of camp days. Hopefully this is the lowest the league will get for the season. The average without New York would be 6,577.

RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(11) - 9,806 (-1,544)
2. Phoenix Mercury(8) - 9,652 (-261)
3. Minnesota Lynx(9) - 9,179 (-1,228)
4. Seattle Storm(12) - 6,914 (-790)
5. Chicago Sky(10) - 5,945 (-638)
6. Connecticut Sun(6) - 5,931 (-797)
7. Indiana Fever(10) - 5,662 (-1,876)
8. Washington Mystics(11) - 5,490 (-2,281)
9. Las Vegas Aces(10) - 5,231 (-1,155)
10. Dallas Wings(9) - 4,659 (+787)
11. Atlanta Dream(8) - 4,207 (-245)
12. New York Liberty(11) - 2,214 (-7,675)
WNBA AVERAGE(116) - 6,163 (-1,553)



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/16/18 9:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Several camp days this week plus two sellouts in Seattle helped get some numbers up. Still some hope to possibly get up to 7k league average, especially with Phoenix still having 9 more home games left(more than any other team). I'm thinking Seattle, Phoenix & Connecticut will better last seasons numbers.

RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(12) - 10,114 (-1,236)
2. Phoenix Mercury(8) - 9,652 (-261)
3. Minnesota Lynx(11) - 9,242 (-1,165)
4. Seattle Storm(14) - 7,310 (-394)
5. Connecticut Sun(8) - 6,337 (-391)
6. Chicago Sky(11) - 6,104 (-479)
7. Indiana Fever(12) - 6,077 (-1,461)
8. Washington Mystics(13) - 5,970 (-1,801)
9. Las Vegas Aces(11) - 5,193 (-1,193)
10. Dallas Wings(10) - 4,597 (+725)
11. Atlanta Dream(10) - 4,134 (-318)
12. New York Liberty(12) - 2,202 (-7,687)
WNBA AVERAGE(132) - 6,377 (-1,339)



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zune69



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PostPosted: 07/16/18 9:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dallas is still bottom 3 in attendance Sad ...Hopefully playing in a smaller venue has decreased their cost of operation.


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PostPosted: 07/16/18 11:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Dallas is still bottom 3 in attendance Sad ...Hopefully playing in a smaller venue has decreased their cost of operation.


We still have not had our Camp/Kids day yet i expect it to rise . Smaller venue equals smaller rent meaning more profit .



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Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 07/16/18 11:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Dallas is still bottom 3 in attendance Sad ...Hopefully playing in a smaller venue has decreased their cost of operation.


We still have not had our Camp/Kids day yet i expect it to rise . Smaller venue equals smaller rent meaning more profit .

All the the teams above are in the red compared to last season. Dallas is the only team in black. Always bet on black.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/16/18 11:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Was still hoping the Wings could be around 5k this season. Hopefully some bigger crowds come in.



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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 07/16/18 11:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
12. New York Liberty(12) - 2,202 (-7,687)
WNBA AVERAGE(132) - 6,377 (-1,339)


By my quick math, if NY is not included, the league is averaging about 6794 fans per game.


toad455



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PostPosted: 07/23/18 8:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Some solid camp day crowds along with some good sized crowds this weekend boosted the league average up significantly. League average without New York would be 6,874. Several teams close to last year's average.

RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(13) - 10,146 (-1,204)
2. Minnesota Lynx(12) - 9,966 (-441)
3. Phoenix Mercury(10) - 9,728 (-185)
4. Seattle Storm(14) - 7,310 (-394)
5. Connecticut Sun(10) - 6,416 (-312)
6. Chicago Sky(14) - 6,329 (-254)
7. Indiana Fever(12) - 6,077 (-1,461)
8. Washington Mystics(13) - 5,970 (-1,801)
9. Las Vegas Aces(12) - 5,207 (-1,179)
10. Dallas Wings(13) - 4,752 (+880)
11. Atlanta Dream(12) - 4,111 (-341)
12. New York Liberty(13) - 2,187 (-7,702)
WNBA AVERAGE(148) - 6,462 (-1,254)



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 07/23/18 8:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We had a great crowd yesterday sucks we loss. Rivals the crowd that came out against LA this year. The wave is so fun when there's alot of butts in the seats! #WFFL



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/29/18 9:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Only 5 games due to the All-Star Break. Not much change.

RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(14) - 10,088 (-1,263)
2. Minnesota Lynx(13) - 9,955 (-452)
3. Phoenix Mercury(11) - 9,783 (-130)
4. Seattle Storm(14) - 7,310 (-394)
5. Chicago Sky(14) - 6,329 (-254)
6. Connecticut Sun(11) - 6,298 (-430)
7. Indiana Fever(13) - 6,064 (-1,474)
8. Washington Mystics(13) - 5,970 (-1,801)
9. Las Vegas Aces(12) - 5,207 (-1,179)
10. Dallas Wings(13) - 4,752 (+880)
11. Atlanta Dream(12) - 4,111 (-341)
12. New York Liberty(13) - 2,187 (-7,702)
WNBA AVERAGE(153) - 6,516 (-1,200)



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 07/29/18 10:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm guessing it's unusual for every team but one to report a drop in attendance ...

Two possibilities: Fewer fans are coming, or the league has decided to report more realistic numbers.

If the latter, it actually makes a little sense. The league can blame the drop on the Liberty move (even if it's not true), and then report growth for the next five years or so as the base numbers are now lower.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/29/18 10:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well we still have three more weeks. Minnesota, Phoenix, Seattle, Chicago & Atlanta are all close to last year's average. Yes, I feel teams are being more realistic(mostly Washington). New York's move to Westchester is the biggest, most obvious reason why the league is down so much. Can't also notice the impact Catchings had on the Fever. No star now in Indiana and they're the worst in the league, so Fever take a big hit. Just hope the ownership keeps the team.



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 07/29/18 11:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I'm guessing it's unusual for every team but one to report a drop in attendance ...

Two possibilities: Fewer fans are coming, or the league has decided to report more realistic numbers.

If the latter, it actually makes a little sense. The league can blame the drop on the Liberty move (even if it's not true), and then report growth for the next five years or so as the base numbers are now lower.


From what I've seen it isn't more accurate reporting. The games I went to in Las Vegas and Seattle all had padded attendance figures. I still look at them but I don't believe them, at least individually. But if you want another conspiracy theory explanation, how about the owners want to make the league look less successful coming up to when the players (and owners) can opt out of the CBA.


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PostPosted: 07/29/18 3:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
I'm guessing it's unusual for every team but one to report a drop in attendance ...

Two possibilities: Fewer fans are coming, or the league has decided to report more realistic numbers.

If the latter, it actually makes a little sense. The league can blame the drop on the Liberty move (even if it's not true), and then report growth for the next five years or so as the base numbers are now lower.


From what I've seen it isn't more accurate reporting. The games I went to in Las Vegas and Seattle all had padded attendance figures. I still look at them but I don't believe them, at least individually. But if you want another conspiracy theory explanation, how about the owners want to make the league look less successful coming up to when the players (and owners) can opt out of the CBA.


Good point. Do the Mystics move into the smaller arena next year?



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/29/18 3:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
I'm guessing it's unusual for every team but one to report a drop in attendance ...

Two possibilities: Fewer fans are coming, or the league has decided to report more realistic numbers.

If the latter, it actually makes a little sense. The league can blame the drop on the Liberty move (even if it's not true), and then report growth for the next five years or so as the base numbers are now lower.


From what I've seen it isn't more accurate reporting. The games I went to in Las Vegas and Seattle all had padded attendance figures. I still look at them but I don't believe them, at least individually. But if you want another conspiracy theory explanation, how about the owners want to make the league look less successful coming up to when the players (and owners) can opt out of the CBA.


Good point. Do the Mystics move into the smaller arena next year?


Yes. Plus it appears the Liberty will be at WWC again as STH are being offered renewals. And Seattle will be playing somewhere for 2019 as Key Arena gets renovated.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 07/29/18 5:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

On the plus side Dream will move back to Phillips arena, which should help matters a bit. But not enough to change the story. I think a new metric of some sort will be used perhaps featuring social media interest (however that is measured.) Perhaps even a composite metric of some sort taking into account social media, TV views, game attendance and whatever.......


CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 07/31/18 1:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I'm guessing it's unusual for every team but one to report a drop in attendance ...

Two possibilities: Fewer fans are coming, or the league has decided to report more realistic numbers.

If the latter, it actually makes a little sense. The league can blame the drop on the Liberty move (even if it's not true), and then report growth for the next five years or so as the base numbers are now lower.


In 2017, the WNBA registered its highest total attendance (1,574,078) and highest average attendance (7,716) since 2011. So any drop from 2017 is not necessarily a bad thing, as 2017 was such a banner year.

And I have to quote the great Clay Kallam, from the 2017 attendance thread:
It is important to remember is more important than tickets distributed, and we have no access to comparative revenue numbers.

With that in mind, a few points:

-- Dallas plays its games at the College Park Center in Arlington, Texas. The capacity of the venue is 7,000. This means that Dallas' attendance (4,752 per game) is 67.885 percent of capacity. Last year, for example, Dallas averaged 3,872 fans per game (about 55 percent of capacity).

-- Remember, Tulsa moved to Dallas after the 2015 season. A sellout for a basketball game at BOK Center (Tulsa's home venue) was 17.839. Tulsa averaged between 4,812 and 5,566 fans per game in its six season, with 5,168 fans per game in its last season. Dallas is averaging a much bigger percentage of arena capacity, even though the actual raw attendance number of fans per game is less than the last year in Tulsa.

-- For two franchises, costs are relative -- and lower than those of other franchises. With Las Vegas and Connecticut, the owners of the WNBA franchises (Mohegan Sun for CT, MGM Resorts International for LV) also own the respective arenas in which those franchises play (Mohegan Sun Arena for CT, Mandalay Bay Events Center for LV).

-- And since both of these are attached to/part of casinos/resorts, there is already the "infrastructure" in place -- e.g., food/beverage/concessions, security, etc. And I highly doubt the ownership is paying rent for the arena, as it would be paying rent to itself.

-- As a result, not only are the costs of operation for these two franchises is significantly less that the costs of operation for other WNBA franchises, but the ability to make a profit is much easier. And even if attendance is not a huge percentage of capacity, if the attendees for WNBA games stay at the resort, spend time in the casino, etc., the franchise can recover any costs that way.


Frankly, if James Dolan is going to sell the franchise and relocate - which I think would be terrible for the league, considering the WNBA league office is in New York - then it needs to consider an owner/ownership group that owns the venue in which the team will play.

As an example, the Hard Rock Hotel & Casino Atlantic City, New Jersey was formerly the Trump Taj Mahal. After a bankruptcy, it was purchased by the Seminole Tribe of Floirda (through its Hard Rock International brand) and converted to the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino brand. It reopened on June 28, 2018. And as part of the re-opening, the attached Etess Arena re-opened - which has a capacity of about 7,000.

Of course, as I finished typing this, Pilight posted a link about MGM Resorts International becoming the official gaming partner of the NBA and WNBA. Not sure what this would mean for a potential owner such as Hard Rock, though the NBA has plenty of official league-wide sponsors, with various teams having separate sponsorship deals.


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PostPosted: 07/31/18 2:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Frankly, if James Dolan is going to sell the franchise and relocate - which I think would be terrible for the league, considering the WNBA league office is in New York - then it needs to consider an owner/ownership group that owns the venue in which the team will play.


You mean like James Dolan owns Madison Square Garden?



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Randy



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PostPosted: 07/31/18 2:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Casino's might also be interested in being jersey sponsors of WNBA teams if they can't be team owners. The Mercury have Talking Stick, and as I recall, Tulsa had Osage casino sponsor for a while. It does seem like sponsorship becomes a fad in industries - once a few players get in - then a lot jump in.


CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 07/31/18 2:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Frankly, if James Dolan is going to sell the franchise and relocate - which I think would be terrible for the league, considering the WNBA league office is in New York - then it needs to consider an owner/ownership group that owns the venue in which the team will play.


You mean like James Dolan owns Madison Square Garden?


Yes - but not connected with a resort the way CT and LV are (which I detailed in the beginning part of my post and the part after the Dolan discussion).

Operating the arena is not the same when the arena is not connected to a business that is open and will be running, irrespective if there is an event at the arena that day.


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PostPosted: 07/31/18 5:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Frankly, if James Dolan is going to sell the franchise and relocate - which I think would be terrible for the league, considering the WNBA league office is in New York - then it needs to consider an owner/ownership group that owns the venue in which the team will play.


You mean like James Dolan owns Madison Square Garden?


Prudential Center in Newark is close enough. I know Liberty fans didn't exactly show up in 2011-2013, but maybe they'd show up now considering how badly WCC is.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 07/31/18 6:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:

In 2017, the WNBA registered its highest total attendance (1,574,078) and highest average attendance (7,716) since 2011. So any drop from 2017 is not necessarily a bad thing, as 2017 was such a banner year.


The five lowest announced per-game attendances in the history of the WNBA were [2015 - 7,381 ; 2012 - 7,452 ; 2013 - 7,531 ; 2014 - 7,578 ; 2016 - 7,655]. 7,716 in 2017 is 4.5% greater than the all-time low in 2015 of 7,381, but I don't know if the correct characterization of that is "banner year".


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PostPosted: 08/06/18 7:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Slight bump due to the Sparks sell-out yesterday & 12k for the Storm on Friday. But out of 14 games, 9 of them were below 7k. Interesting note about the cancelled game @ DC. Since it was breast cancer awareness night, it was reported from fans that it would have been a solid crowd for the Mystics(7k?). This would hurt the Mystics average to lose that number for the season.
League average without New York would be 6,954.

RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(16) - 10,615 (-735)
2. Minnesota Lynx(14) - 9,911 (-496)
3. Phoenix Mercury(12) - 9,802 (-111)
4. Seattle Storm(15) - 7,627 (-77)
5. Connecticut Sun(14) - 6,345 (-383)
6. Chicago Sky(14) - 6,329 (-254)
7. Indiana Fever(14) - 6,058 (-1,480)
8. Washington Mystics(13) - 5,970 (-1,801)
9. Las Vegas Aces(13) - 5,201 (-1,185)
10. Dallas Wings(15) - 4,739 (+867)
11. Atlanta Dream(14) - 4,150 (-302)
12. New York Liberty(14) - 2,190 (-7,699)
WNBA AVERAGE(167) - 6,596 (-1,120)



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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 08/06/18 11:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:

League average without New York would be 6,954.

WNBA AVERAGE(167) - 6,596


Last year, around the same time (163 games played):

WNBA Average(163) - 7,400
League average last year at this time without Atlanta (4,385) & Dallas (3,744) - 8,152


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PostPosted: 08/06/18 11:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Liberty are the big reason for the dip, but Indiana, Washington & Las Vegas(compared to San Antonio's last season) all have seen 1K+ dips. So there's plenty of blame for the league's overall drop.



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PostPosted: 08/06/18 12:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
The Liberty are the big reason for the dip, but Indiana, Washington & Las Vegas(compared to San Antonio's last season) all have seen 1K+ dips. So there's plenty of blame for the league's overall drop.


The good news about Las Vegas is that the operating costs are a lot less when you the team owner also owns the arena and the areas around the arena (concessions, gaming, etc., along with other costs like security) operate whether or not the arena is in use.

To make Las Vegas (and Connecticut) profitable is less than other franchises.


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PostPosted: 08/06/18 12:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What was the league average sans New York (at MSG) last year?


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PostPosted: 08/06/18 12:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

lethalweapon3 wrote:
What was the league average sans New York (at MSG) last year?


Give aways or paying fans ?



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toad455



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PostPosted: 08/13/18 7:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

No changes. Let's see what kind of crowds get reported for the final week. Several teams close to last year's average. Sad that Atlanta with their record & McCoughtry returning ended up averaging slightly less this year. The league average without New York would be 6,943. Also, I'm not counting that forfeit game for the Mystics. So they'll end up with only 16 home games. Didn't want to count it as "0" and really drop their number.

Last year the Liberty saw 169,813 people attend their games at MSG, this year that number was only 47,988. So playing in Westchester forced 121,825 to not attend a Liberty game. That's a lot of people(comped or not).

RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(16) - 10,615 (-735)
2. Minnesota Lynx(15) - 9,858 (-549)
3. Phoenix Mercury(15) - 9,658 (-255)
4. Seattle Storm(15) - 7,627 (-77)
5. Connecticut Sun(14) - 6,441 (-287)
6. Chicago Sky(16) - 6,311 (-272)
7. Indiana Fever(15) - 6,081 (-1,457)
8. Washington Mystics(15) - 6,052 (-1,719)
9. Las Vegas Aces(15) - 5,155 (-1,231)
10. Dallas Wings(15) - 4,661 (+789)
11. Atlanta Dream(17) - 4,194 (-258)
12. New York Liberty(17) - 2,823 (-7,066)
WNBA AVERAGE(186) - 6,566 (-1,150)



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toad455



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PostPosted: 08/20/18 5:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Only three teams saw an increase from 2017; Dallas, Seattle & Phoenix[barely]. Minnesota, Atlanta, Connecticut & Chicago came close. League avoids a 4 digit drop. Overall attendance without New York would be 7,129. League needs to look into having the Liberty play elsewhere in New York.

RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks - 10,642 (-708)
2. Minnesota Lynx - 10,036 (-371)
3. Phoenix Mercury - 9,950 (+37)
4. Seattle Storm - 8,109 (+405)
5. Connecticut Sun - 6,569 (-159)
6. Chicago Sky - 6,358 (-225)
7. Indiana Fever - 6,311 (-1,227)
8. Washington Mystics(16*) - 6,136 (-1,635)
9. Las Vegas Aces - 5,307 (-1,079)
10. Dallas Wings - 4,752 (+880)
11. Atlanta Dream - 4,194 (-258)
12. New York Liberty - 2,823 (-7,066)
WNBA AVERAGE(203) - 6,768 (-947)
*Mystics lost a home game due to the forfeit vs. Vegas on August 3.



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PostPosted: 08/20/18 6:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Only three teams saw an increase from 2017; Dallas, Seattle & Phoenix[barely]. Minnesota, Atlanta, Connecticut & Chicago came close. League avoids a 4 digit drop. Overall attendance without New York would be 7,129. League needs to look into having the Liberty play elsewhere in New York.

RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks - 10,642 (-708)
2. Minnesota Lynx - 10,036 (-371)
3. Phoenix Mercury - 9,950 (+37)
4. Seattle Storm - 8,109 (+405)
5. Connecticut Sun - 6,569 (-159)
6. Chicago Sky - 6,358 (-225)
7. Indiana Fever - 6,311 (-1,227)
8. Washington Mystics(16*) - 6,136 (-1,635)
9. Las Vegas Aces - 5,307 (-1,079)
10. Dallas Wings - 4,752 (+880)
11. Atlanta Dream - 4,194 (-258)
12. New York Liberty - 2,823 (-7,066)
WNBA AVERAGE(203) - 6,768 (-947)
*Mystics lost a home game due to the forfeit vs. Vegas on August 3.

Atlanta has the second best team in the league and they still cannot draw more than 6,000 people per game. Confused



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PostPosted: 08/20/18 6:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Playing in McCamish doesn't help. They drew around 6,000 every year at Phillips.



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PostPosted: 08/20/18 7:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Playing in McCamish doesn't help. They drew around 6,000 every year at Phillips.


Maybe the Dream will pick up next season once they return to Phillips. The Hawks are making a lot of noise about the arena upgrades so that should help too. There is a lot more potential for walk up traffic at Phillips (lots of tourists in CNN center and the food court) than at McCammish (college students in summer school.) Much better parking and Marta access as well. Finally, coming off the best season in team history has to help as opposed to coming off a season in the lottery.


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PostPosted: 08/20/18 7:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Playing in McCamish doesn't help. They drew around 6,000 every year at Phillips.


But the actual attendance looked well below that, making me wonder how they are surviving without a jersey deal.


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PostPosted: 08/20/18 9:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Playing in McCamish doesn't help. They drew around 6,000 every year at Phillips.


But the actual attendance looked well below that, making me wonder how they are surviving without a jersey deal.


Owners with deep pockets?


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PostPosted: 08/20/18 9:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Playing in McCamish doesn't help. They drew around 6,000 every year at Phillips.


But the actual attendance looked well below that, making me wonder how they are surviving without a jersey deal.


Philips is enormous, which makes the crowds look smaller than they are



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PostPosted: 08/20/18 9:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Only three teams saw an increase from 2017; Dallas, Seattle & Phoenix[barely]. Minnesota, Atlanta, Connecticut & Chicago came close. League avoids a 4 digit drop. Overall attendance without New York would be 7,129. League needs to look into having the Liberty play elsewhere in New York.

RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks - 10,642 (-708)
2. Minnesota Lynx - 10,036 (-371)
3. Phoenix Mercury - 9,950 (+37)
4. Seattle Storm - 8,109 (+405)
5. Connecticut Sun - 6,569 (-159)
6. Chicago Sky - 6,358 (-225)
7. Indiana Fever - 6,311 (-1,227)
8. Washington Mystics(16*) - 6,136 (-1,635)
9. Las Vegas Aces - 5,307 (-1,079)
10. Dallas Wings - 4,752 (+880)
11. Atlanta Dream - 4,194 (-258)
12. New York Liberty - 2,823 (-7,066)
WNBA AVERAGE(203) - 6,768 (-947)
*Mystics lost a home game due to the forfeit vs. Vegas on August 3.

Atlanta has the second best team in the league and they still cannot draw more than 6,000 people per game. Confused



Atlanta has always been a real strange sports town. During their time on top in the 90s the Braves had a real hard time pulling in crowds, the Falcons have never really been popular and the Hawks are not an exceptionally popular team. So the Dream's struggles in Atlanta are not an isolated incident in regards to sports there.


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PostPosted: 08/20/18 9:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Only three teams saw an increase from 2017; Dallas, Seattle & Phoenix[barely]. Minnesota, Atlanta, Connecticut & Chicago came close. League avoids a 4 digit drop. Overall attendance without New York would be 7,129. League needs to look into having the Liberty play elsewhere in New York.

RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks - 10,642 (-708)
2. Minnesota Lynx - 10,036 (-371)
3. Phoenix Mercury - 9,950 (+37)
4. Seattle Storm - 8,109 (+405)
5. Connecticut Sun - 6,569 (-159)
6. Chicago Sky - 6,358 (-225)
7. Indiana Fever - 6,311 (-1,227)
8. Washington Mystics(16*) - 6,136 (-1,635)
9. Las Vegas Aces - 5,307 (-1,079)
10. Dallas Wings - 4,752 (+880)
11. Atlanta Dream - 4,194 (-258)
12. New York Liberty - 2,823 (-7,066)
WNBA AVERAGE(203) - 6,768 (-947)
*Mystics lost a home game due to the forfeit vs. Vegas on August 3.

Atlanta has the second best team in the league and they still cannot draw more than 6,000 people per game. Confused



Atlanta has always been a real strange sports town. During their time on top in the 90s the Braves had a real hard time pulling in crowds, the Falcons have never really been popular and the Hawks are not an exceptionally popular team. So the Dream's struggles in Atlanta are not an isolated incident in regards to sports there.


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PostPosted: 08/20/18 10:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Playing in McCamish doesn't help. They drew around 6,000 every year at Phillips.


But the actual attendance looked well below that, making me wonder how they are surviving without a jersey deal.


Philips is enormous, which makes the crowds look smaller than they are


Aren't all the NBA arenas enormous?


tfan



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PostPosted: 08/20/18 10:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
tfan wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Playing in McCamish doesn't help. They drew around 6,000 every year at Phillips.


But the actual attendance looked well below that, making me wonder how they are surviving without a jersey deal.


Owners with deep pockets?


Apparently, or else they have figured out ways to make it work that other owners like the previous Sparks owner and the Liberty haven't. But the two women owners don't seem to be of the "NBA owner" level of wealth.

Kelly Loeffler is now listed as Chief Executive Officer of a company named Bakkt, but that happened fairly recently. Her previous bio was with Intercontinental Exchange, Inc. from 2002-2017, where she reached the position of Chief Communications & Marketing Officer. I remember seeing what her husband did once, but can't find it now.

Mary Rockett Brock only has serving on Boards as part of her bio work history. But her husband was the CEO of Coca-Cola from 2006-2016.


One thing about the Dream owners, they seem to be into their team as much as or more than any owners in the league. I believe I see one or both sitting courtside on the side opposite the benches at every Dream home game.


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PostPosted: 08/21/18 4:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

josephkramer44 wrote:


Atlanta has always been a real strange sports town. During their time on top in the 90s the Braves had a real hard time pulling in crowds, the Falcons have never really been popular and the Hawks are not an exceptionally popular team. So the Dream's struggles in Atlanta are not an isolated incident in regards to sports there.


The Hawks were actually last in the NBA this past season, drawing just 14,409(77% capacity).



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PostPosted: 08/21/18 6:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
josephkramer44 wrote:


Atlanta has always been a real strange sports town. During their time on top in the 90s the Braves had a real hard time pulling in crowds, the Falcons have never really been popular and the Hawks are not an exceptionally popular team. So the Dream's struggles in Atlanta are not an isolated incident in regards to sports there.


The Hawks were actually last in the NBA this past season, drawing just 14,409(77% capacity).


Hawks are now in full tank mode. The Atlanta MLS team (now in 2nd season) is leading that league in attendance and setting records. That is a bit surprising but a lot of kids in Atlanta grew up playing soccer and the owner/management might have a clue on how to run a successful team. Aside from that College Football, is huge in Georgia. UGA spring practice usually gets more coverage in the local press than that Hawks.

Despite this being the best season in Dream history - I don't believe there has been a single story about the Dream in since the opening week of the season in the local press.


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PostPosted: 08/21/18 8:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Despite this being the best season in Dream history - I don't believe there has been a single story about the Dream in since the opening week of the season in the local press.


can confirm.


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PostPosted: 08/21/18 9:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have read everyone's posts about how the people of Atlanta don't support the local pro sports teams. It's still inexcusable for the local population not to support these women. These young women are on the court ballin' their asses off , winning games to set a new franchise record and the people of Atlanta cannot be bothered to show up and support these women. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes WTF!
What do the people of Atlanta do in their spare time?



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PostPosted: 08/21/18 10:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Oakland A's might just be the most exciting team in MLB, especially lately.

They just drew 9,300 or so.

The Giants, my team, who are boring and mediocre, will get 30,000+ every game the rest of the season.

Attendance has less to do with "deserving" than we might expect, though I think it is true that winning is crucial. The Giants, for example, are going to have to undergo a painful rebuild, and attendance will drop -- but I'm guessing they still outdraw the A's, even if they're in last and the A's are in first.

Do the Georgia collegiate women's teams draw at all? How about the men's teams?



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PostPosted: 08/21/18 11:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Do the Georgia collegiate women's teams draw at all? How about the men's teams?


No and no. UGA's men draw about 7k per game, most of which are free student tickets. The women draw about half that number. Georgia Tech draws less than that.



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PostPosted: 08/21/18 11:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Do the Georgia collegiate women's teams draw at all? How about the men's teams?


No and no. UGA's men draw about 7k per game, most of which are free student tickets. The women draw about half that number. Georgia Tech draws less than that.


We gotta let Maya know that they just don’t love and appreciate basketball in Georgia like they should.



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PostPosted: 08/21/18 1:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
pilight wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Do the Georgia collegiate women's teams draw at all? How about the men's teams?


No and no. UGA's men draw about 7k per game, most of which are free student tickets. The women draw about half that number. Georgia Tech draws less than that.


We gotta let Maya know that they just don’t love and appreciate basketball in Georgia like they should.


But maybe if someone could convince her that we are making UConn South - Pro Edition in Atlanta then the fans would show up. "Build it Maya and they will come."

Plus Maya has lots of fans that show up every game she is in town.


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