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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/06/18 2:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And1 wrote:
toad455 wrote:
The Vegas # from June 24 has been added and the averages updated.


What was the attendance for that game?


4,816



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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 07/09/18 1:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Up to & including games from July 1. The Minnesota @ Las Vegas game on June 24 has been added and the overall average updated. League hitting rock bottom with a lot of 4k & 5k games the past week.

RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(9) - 10,158 (-1,192)
2. Phoenix Mercury(7) - 9,802 (-111)
3. Minnesota Lynx(7) - 9,239 (-1,168)
4. Seattle Storm(11) - 6,749 (-955)
5. Connecticut Sun(6) - 5,931 (-797)
6. Chicago Sky(9) - 5,923 (-660)
7. Indiana Fever(10) - 5,662 (-1,876)
8. Washington Mystics(10) - 5,572 (-2,199)
9. Las Vegas Aces(Cool - 5,531 (-753)
10. Dallas Wings(7) - 4,840 (+968)
11. Atlanta Dream(6) - 4,295 (-157)
12. New York Liberty(9) - 2,321 (-7,568)
WNBA AVERAGE(100) - 6,250 (-1,466)


As compared to games as of July 5, 2017:

toad455 wrote:
Slight dip this past week due to the holiday weekend. We'll see how the crowds look this coming week/weekend.

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Phoenix Mercury(7) - 9,638 (-713)
2. Los Angeles Sparks(7) - 9,527 (-111)
3. Minnesota Lynx(6) - 9,193 (-73)
4. New York Liberty(Cool - 9,025 (-700)
5. Seattle Storm(Cool - 6,756 (-474)
6. Indiana Fever(Cool - 6,650 (-1,925)
7. San Antonio Stars(7) - 6,518 (+133)
8. Connecticut Sun(6) - 6,414 (+577)
9. Washington Mystics(9) - 6,233 (-696)
10. Chicago Sky(7) - 6,081 (-928)
11. Atlanta Dream(6) - 4,134 (-1,480)
12. Dallas Wings(9) - 3,715 (-1,583)
WNBA Average(8Cool - 6,929 (-725)


If you remove the nine home games from New York (as of July 3, 2018), the league average is approximately 6,648 for the eleven other franchises, as of July 3, 2018.


toad455



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PostPosted: 07/10/18 3:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A bad week for July 4 week with 9 games getting under 6k. This week should see a big boost with a lot of camp days. Hopefully this is the lowest the league will get for the season. The average without New York would be 6,577.

RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(11) - 9,806 (-1,544)
2. Phoenix Mercury(8) - 9,652 (-261)
3. Minnesota Lynx(9) - 9,179 (-1,228)
4. Seattle Storm(12) - 6,914 (-790)
5. Chicago Sky(10) - 5,945 (-638)
6. Connecticut Sun(6) - 5,931 (-797)
7. Indiana Fever(10) - 5,662 (-1,876)
8. Washington Mystics(11) - 5,490 (-2,281)
9. Las Vegas Aces(10) - 5,231 (-1,155)
10. Dallas Wings(9) - 4,659 (+787)
11. Atlanta Dream(8) - 4,207 (-245)
12. New York Liberty(11) - 2,214 (-7,675)
WNBA AVERAGE(116) - 6,163 (-1,553)



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/16/18 9:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Several camp days this week plus two sellouts in Seattle helped get some numbers up. Still some hope to possibly get up to 7k league average, especially with Phoenix still having 9 more home games left(more than any other team). I'm thinking Seattle, Phoenix & Connecticut will better last seasons numbers.

RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(12) - 10,114 (-1,236)
2. Phoenix Mercury(8) - 9,652 (-261)
3. Minnesota Lynx(11) - 9,242 (-1,165)
4. Seattle Storm(14) - 7,310 (-394)
5. Connecticut Sun(8) - 6,337 (-391)
6. Chicago Sky(11) - 6,104 (-479)
7. Indiana Fever(12) - 6,077 (-1,461)
8. Washington Mystics(13) - 5,970 (-1,801)
9. Las Vegas Aces(11) - 5,193 (-1,193)
10. Dallas Wings(10) - 4,597 (+725)
11. Atlanta Dream(10) - 4,134 (-318)
12. New York Liberty(12) - 2,202 (-7,687)
WNBA AVERAGE(132) - 6,377 (-1,339)



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zune69



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PostPosted: 07/16/18 9:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dallas is still bottom 3 in attendance Sad ...Hopefully playing in a smaller venue has decreased their cost of operation.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 07/16/18 11:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Dallas is still bottom 3 in attendance Sad ...Hopefully playing in a smaller venue has decreased their cost of operation.


We still have not had our Camp/Kids day yet i expect it to rise . Smaller venue equals smaller rent meaning more profit .



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Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 07/16/18 11:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Dallas is still bottom 3 in attendance Sad ...Hopefully playing in a smaller venue has decreased their cost of operation.


We still have not had our Camp/Kids day yet i expect it to rise . Smaller venue equals smaller rent meaning more profit .

All the the teams above are in the red compared to last season. Dallas is the only team in black. Always bet on black.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/16/18 11:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Was still hoping the Wings could be around 5k this season. Hopefully some bigger crowds come in.



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CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 07/16/18 11:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
12. New York Liberty(12) - 2,202 (-7,687)
WNBA AVERAGE(132) - 6,377 (-1,339)


By my quick math, if NY is not included, the league is averaging about 6794 fans per game.


toad455



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PostPosted: 07/23/18 8:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Some solid camp day crowds along with some good sized crowds this weekend boosted the league average up significantly. League average without New York would be 6,874. Several teams close to last year's average.

RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(13) - 10,146 (-1,204)
2. Minnesota Lynx(12) - 9,966 (-441)
3. Phoenix Mercury(10) - 9,728 (-185)
4. Seattle Storm(14) - 7,310 (-394)
5. Connecticut Sun(10) - 6,416 (-312)
6. Chicago Sky(14) - 6,329 (-254)
7. Indiana Fever(12) - 6,077 (-1,461)
8. Washington Mystics(13) - 5,970 (-1,801)
9. Las Vegas Aces(12) - 5,207 (-1,179)
10. Dallas Wings(13) - 4,752 (+880)
11. Atlanta Dream(12) - 4,111 (-341)
12. New York Liberty(13) - 2,187 (-7,702)
WNBA AVERAGE(148) - 6,462 (-1,254)



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 07/23/18 8:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We had a great crowd yesterday sucks we loss. Rivals the crowd that came out against LA this year. The wave is so fun when there's alot of butts in the seats! #WFFL



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/29/18 9:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Only 5 games due to the All-Star Break. Not much change.

RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(14) - 10,088 (-1,263)
2. Minnesota Lynx(13) - 9,955 (-452)
3. Phoenix Mercury(11) - 9,783 (-130)
4. Seattle Storm(14) - 7,310 (-394)
5. Chicago Sky(14) - 6,329 (-254)
6. Connecticut Sun(11) - 6,298 (-430)
7. Indiana Fever(13) - 6,064 (-1,474)
8. Washington Mystics(13) - 5,970 (-1,801)
9. Las Vegas Aces(12) - 5,207 (-1,179)
10. Dallas Wings(13) - 4,752 (+880)
11. Atlanta Dream(12) - 4,111 (-341)
12. New York Liberty(13) - 2,187 (-7,702)
WNBA AVERAGE(153) - 6,516 (-1,200)



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 07/29/18 10:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm guessing it's unusual for every team but one to report a drop in attendance ...

Two possibilities: Fewer fans are coming, or the league has decided to report more realistic numbers.

If the latter, it actually makes a little sense. The league can blame the drop on the Liberty move (even if it's not true), and then report growth for the next five years or so as the base numbers are now lower.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/29/18 10:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well we still have three more weeks. Minnesota, Phoenix, Seattle, Chicago & Atlanta are all close to last year's average. Yes, I feel teams are being more realistic(mostly Washington). New York's move to Westchester is the biggest, most obvious reason why the league is down so much. Can't also notice the impact Catchings had on the Fever. No star now in Indiana and they're the worst in the league, so Fever take a big hit. Just hope the ownership keeps the team.



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calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 07/29/18 11:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I'm guessing it's unusual for every team but one to report a drop in attendance ...

Two possibilities: Fewer fans are coming, or the league has decided to report more realistic numbers.

If the latter, it actually makes a little sense. The league can blame the drop on the Liberty move (even if it's not true), and then report growth for the next five years or so as the base numbers are now lower.


From what I've seen it isn't more accurate reporting. The games I went to in Las Vegas and Seattle all had padded attendance figures. I still look at them but I don't believe them, at least individually. But if you want another conspiracy theory explanation, how about the owners want to make the league look less successful coming up to when the players (and owners) can opt out of the CBA.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 07/29/18 3:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
I'm guessing it's unusual for every team but one to report a drop in attendance ...

Two possibilities: Fewer fans are coming, or the league has decided to report more realistic numbers.

If the latter, it actually makes a little sense. The league can blame the drop on the Liberty move (even if it's not true), and then report growth for the next five years or so as the base numbers are now lower.


From what I've seen it isn't more accurate reporting. The games I went to in Las Vegas and Seattle all had padded attendance figures. I still look at them but I don't believe them, at least individually. But if you want another conspiracy theory explanation, how about the owners want to make the league look less successful coming up to when the players (and owners) can opt out of the CBA.


Good point. Do the Mystics move into the smaller arena next year?



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/29/18 3:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
I'm guessing it's unusual for every team but one to report a drop in attendance ...

Two possibilities: Fewer fans are coming, or the league has decided to report more realistic numbers.

If the latter, it actually makes a little sense. The league can blame the drop on the Liberty move (even if it's not true), and then report growth for the next five years or so as the base numbers are now lower.


From what I've seen it isn't more accurate reporting. The games I went to in Las Vegas and Seattle all had padded attendance figures. I still look at them but I don't believe them, at least individually. But if you want another conspiracy theory explanation, how about the owners want to make the league look less successful coming up to when the players (and owners) can opt out of the CBA.


Good point. Do the Mystics move into the smaller arena next year?


Yes. Plus it appears the Liberty will be at WWC again as STH are being offered renewals. And Seattle will be playing somewhere for 2019 as Key Arena gets renovated.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 07/29/18 5:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

On the plus side Dream will move back to Phillips arena, which should help matters a bit. But not enough to change the story. I think a new metric of some sort will be used perhaps featuring social media interest (however that is measured.) Perhaps even a composite metric of some sort taking into account social media, TV views, game attendance and whatever.......


CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 07/31/18 1:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I'm guessing it's unusual for every team but one to report a drop in attendance ...

Two possibilities: Fewer fans are coming, or the league has decided to report more realistic numbers.

If the latter, it actually makes a little sense. The league can blame the drop on the Liberty move (even if it's not true), and then report growth for the next five years or so as the base numbers are now lower.


In 2017, the WNBA registered its highest total attendance (1,574,078) and highest average attendance (7,716) since 2011. So any drop from 2017 is not necessarily a bad thing, as 2017 was such a banner year.

And I have to quote the great Clay Kallam, from the 2017 attendance thread:
It is important to remember is more important than tickets distributed, and we have no access to comparative revenue numbers.

With that in mind, a few points:

-- Dallas plays its games at the College Park Center in Arlington, Texas. The capacity of the venue is 7,000. This means that Dallas' attendance (4,752 per game) is 67.885 percent of capacity. Last year, for example, Dallas averaged 3,872 fans per game (about 55 percent of capacity).

-- Remember, Tulsa moved to Dallas after the 2015 season. A sellout for a basketball game at BOK Center (Tulsa's home venue) was 17.839. Tulsa averaged between 4,812 and 5,566 fans per game in its six season, with 5,168 fans per game in its last season. Dallas is averaging a much bigger percentage of arena capacity, even though the actual raw attendance number of fans per game is less than the last year in Tulsa.

-- For two franchises, costs are relative -- and lower than those of other franchises. With Las Vegas and Connecticut, the owners of the WNBA franchises (Mohegan Sun for CT, MGM Resorts International for LV) also own the respective arenas in which those franchises play (Mohegan Sun Arena for CT, Mandalay Bay Events Center for LV).

-- And since both of these are attached to/part of casinos/resorts, there is already the "infrastructure" in place -- e.g., food/beverage/concessions, security, etc. And I highly doubt the ownership is paying rent for the arena, as it would be paying rent to itself.

-- As a result, not only are the costs of operation for these two franchises is significantly less that the costs of operation for other WNBA franchises, but the ability to make a profit is much easier. And even if attendance is not a huge percentage of capacity, if the attendees for WNBA games stay at the resort, spend time in the casino, etc., the franchise can recover any costs that way.


Frankly, if James Dolan is going to sell the franchise and relocate - which I think would be terrible for the league, considering the WNBA league office is in New York - then it needs to consider an owner/ownership group that owns the venue in which the team will play.

As an example, the Hard Rock Hotel & Casino Atlantic City, New Jersey was formerly the Trump Taj Mahal. After a bankruptcy, it was purchased by the Seminole Tribe of Floirda (through its Hard Rock International brand) and converted to the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino brand. It reopened on June 28, 2018. And as part of the re-opening, the attached Etess Arena re-opened - which has a capacity of about 7,000.

Of course, as I finished typing this, Pilight posted a link about MGM Resorts International becoming the official gaming partner of the NBA and WNBA. Not sure what this would mean for a potential owner such as Hard Rock, though the NBA has plenty of official league-wide sponsors, with various teams having separate sponsorship deals.


pilight



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PostPosted: 07/31/18 2:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Frankly, if James Dolan is going to sell the franchise and relocate - which I think would be terrible for the league, considering the WNBA league office is in New York - then it needs to consider an owner/ownership group that owns the venue in which the team will play.


You mean like James Dolan owns Madison Square Garden?



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PostPosted: 07/31/18 2:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Casino's might also be interested in being jersey sponsors of WNBA teams if they can't be team owners. The Mercury have Talking Stick, and as I recall, Tulsa had Osage casino sponsor for a while. It does seem like sponsorship becomes a fad in industries - once a few players get in - then a lot jump in.


CamrnCrz1974



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PostPosted: 07/31/18 2:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Frankly, if James Dolan is going to sell the franchise and relocate - which I think would be terrible for the league, considering the WNBA league office is in New York - then it needs to consider an owner/ownership group that owns the venue in which the team will play.


You mean like James Dolan owns Madison Square Garden?


Yes - but not connected with a resort the way CT and LV are (which I detailed in the beginning part of my post and the part after the Dolan discussion).

Operating the arena is not the same when the arena is not connected to a business that is open and will be running, irrespective if there is an event at the arena that day.


toad455



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PostPosted: 07/31/18 5:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Frankly, if James Dolan is going to sell the franchise and relocate - which I think would be terrible for the league, considering the WNBA league office is in New York - then it needs to consider an owner/ownership group that owns the venue in which the team will play.


You mean like James Dolan owns Madison Square Garden?


Prudential Center in Newark is close enough. I know Liberty fans didn't exactly show up in 2011-2013, but maybe they'd show up now considering how badly WCC is.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 07/31/18 6:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:

In 2017, the WNBA registered its highest total attendance (1,574,078) and highest average attendance (7,716) since 2011. So any drop from 2017 is not necessarily a bad thing, as 2017 was such a banner year.


The five lowest announced per-game attendances in the history of the WNBA were [2015 - 7,381 ; 2012 - 7,452 ; 2013 - 7,531 ; 2014 - 7,578 ; 2016 - 7,655]. 7,716 in 2017 is 4.5% greater than the all-time low in 2015 of 7,381, but I don't know if the correct characterization of that is "banner year".


toad455



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PostPosted: 08/06/18 7:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Slight bump due to the Sparks sell-out yesterday & 12k for the Storm on Friday. But out of 14 games, 9 of them were below 7k. Interesting note about the cancelled game @ DC. Since it was breast cancer awareness night, it was reported from fans that it would have been a solid crowd for the Mystics(7k?). This would hurt the Mystics average to lose that number for the season.
League average without New York would be 6,954.

RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(16) - 10,615 (-735)
2. Minnesota Lynx(14) - 9,911 (-496)
3. Phoenix Mercury(12) - 9,802 (-111)
4. Seattle Storm(15) - 7,627 (-77)
5. Connecticut Sun(14) - 6,345 (-383)
6. Chicago Sky(14) - 6,329 (-254)
7. Indiana Fever(14) - 6,058 (-1,480)
8. Washington Mystics(13) - 5,970 (-1,801)
9. Las Vegas Aces(13) - 5,201 (-1,185)
10. Dallas Wings(15) - 4,739 (+867)
11. Atlanta Dream(14) - 4,150 (-302)
12. New York Liberty(14) - 2,190 (-7,699)
WNBA AVERAGE(167) - 6,596 (-1,120)



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