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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
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 Posted: 08/06/18 11:39 am ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
League average without New York would be 6,954.
WNBA AVERAGE(167) - 6,596 |
Last year, around the same time (163 games played):
WNBA Average(163) - 7,400
League average last year at this time without Atlanta (4,385) & Dallas (3,744) - 8,152
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Location: NJ
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| Posted: 08/06/18 11:44 am ::: |
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| The Liberty are the big reason for the dip, but Indiana, Washington & Las Vegas(compared to San Antonio's last season) all have seen 1K+ dips. So there's plenty of blame for the league's overall drop.
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18371
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: 08/06/18 12:18 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| The Liberty are the big reason for the dip, but Indiana, Washington & Las Vegas(compared to San Antonio's last season) all have seen 1K+ dips. So there's plenty of blame for the league's overall drop. |
The good news about Las Vegas is that the operating costs are a lot less when you the team owner also owns the arena and the areas around the arena (concessions, gaming, etc., along with other costs like security) operate whether or not the arena is in use.
To make Las Vegas (and Connecticut) profitable is less than other franchises.
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lethalweapon3
Joined: 17 May 2018
Posts: 333
Location: ATL ITP, GA
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| Posted: 08/06/18 12:35 pm ::: |
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| What was the league average sans New York (at MSG) last year?
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12528
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 08/06/18 12:37 pm ::: |
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| lethalweapon3 wrote: |
| What was the league average sans New York (at MSG) last year? |
Give aways or paying fans ?
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22474
Location: NJ
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| Posted: 08/13/18 7:52 am ::: |
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No changes. Let's see what kind of crowds get reported for the final week. Several teams close to last year's average. Sad that Atlanta with their record & McCoughtry returning ended up averaging slightly less this year. The league average without New York would be 6,943. Also, I'm not counting that forfeit game for the Mystics. So they'll end up with only 16 home games. Didn't want to count it as "0" and really drop their number.
Last year the Liberty saw 169,813 people attend their games at MSG, this year that number was only 47,988. So playing in Westchester forced 121,825 to not attend a Liberty game. That's a lot of people(comped or not).
RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks(16) - 10,615 (-735)
2. Minnesota Lynx(15) - 9,858 (-549)
3. Phoenix Mercury(15) - 9,658 (-255)
4. Seattle Storm(15) - 7,627 (-77)
5. Connecticut Sun(14) - 6,441 (-287)
6. Chicago Sky(16) - 6,311 (-272)
7. Indiana Fever(15) - 6,081 (-1,457)
8. Washington Mystics(15) - 6,052 (-1,719)
9. Las Vegas Aces(15) - 5,155 (-1,231)
10. Dallas Wings(15) - 4,661 (+789)
11. Atlanta Dream(17) - 4,194 (-258)
12. New York Liberty(17) - 2,823 (-7,066)
WNBA AVERAGE(186) - 6,566 (-1,150)
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22474
Location: NJ
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| Posted: 08/20/18 5:58 pm ::: |
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Only three teams saw an increase from 2017; Dallas, Seattle & Phoenix[barely]. Minnesota, Atlanta, Connecticut & Chicago came close. League avoids a 4 digit drop. Overall attendance without New York would be 7,129. League needs to look into having the Liberty play elsewhere in New York.
RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks - 10,642 (-708)
2. Minnesota Lynx - 10,036 (-371)
3. Phoenix Mercury - 9,950 (+37)
4. Seattle Storm - 8,109 (+405)
5. Connecticut Sun - 6,569 (-159)
6. Chicago Sky - 6,358 (-225)
7. Indiana Fever - 6,311 (-1,227)
8. Washington Mystics(16*) - 6,136 (-1,635)
9. Las Vegas Aces - 5,307 (-1,079)
10. Dallas Wings - 4,752 (+880)
11. Atlanta Dream - 4,194 (-258)
12. New York Liberty - 2,823 (-7,066)
WNBA AVERAGE(203) - 6,768 (-947)
*Mystics lost a home game due to the forfeit vs. Vegas on August 3.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 5376
Location: Chocolate Paradise
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| Posted: 08/20/18 6:03 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
Only three teams saw an increase from 2017; Dallas, Seattle & Phoenix[barely]. Minnesota, Atlanta, Connecticut & Chicago came close. League avoids a 4 digit drop. Overall attendance without New York would be 7,129. League needs to look into having the Liberty play elsewhere in New York.
RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks - 10,642 (-708)
2. Minnesota Lynx - 10,036 (-371)
3. Phoenix Mercury - 9,950 (+37)
4. Seattle Storm - 8,109 (+405)
5. Connecticut Sun - 6,569 (-159)
6. Chicago Sky - 6,358 (-225)
7. Indiana Fever - 6,311 (-1,227)
8. Washington Mystics(16*) - 6,136 (-1,635)
9. Las Vegas Aces - 5,307 (-1,079)
10. Dallas Wings - 4,752 (+880)
11. Atlanta Dream - 4,194 (-258)
12. New York Liberty - 2,823 (-7,066)
WNBA AVERAGE(203) - 6,768 (-947)
*Mystics lost a home game due to the forfeit vs. Vegas on August 3. |
Atlanta has the second best team in the league and they still cannot draw more than 6,000 people per game. 
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22474
Location: NJ
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| Posted: 08/20/18 6:08 pm ::: |
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| Playing in McCamish doesn't help. They drew around 6,000 every year at Phillips.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 08/20/18 7:06 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| Playing in McCamish doesn't help. They drew around 6,000 every year at Phillips. |
Maybe the Dream will pick up next season once they return to Phillips. The Hawks are making a lot of noise about the arena upgrades so that should help too. There is a lot more potential for walk up traffic at Phillips (lots of tourists in CNN center and the food court) than at McCammish (college students in summer school.) Much better parking and Marta access as well. Finally, coming off the best season in team history has to help as opposed to coming off a season in the lottery.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9609
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| Posted: 08/20/18 7:56 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| Playing in McCamish doesn't help. They drew around 6,000 every year at Phillips. |
But the actual attendance looked well below that, making me wonder how they are surviving without a jersey deal.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
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| Posted: 08/20/18 9:21 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| Playing in McCamish doesn't help. They drew around 6,000 every year at Phillips. |
But the actual attendance looked well below that, making me wonder how they are surviving without a jersey deal. |
Owners with deep pockets?
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66900
Location: Where the action is
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| Posted: 08/20/18 9:33 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| Playing in McCamish doesn't help. They drew around 6,000 every year at Phillips. |
But the actual attendance looked well below that, making me wonder how they are surviving without a jersey deal. |
Philips is enormous, which makes the crowds look smaller than they are
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josephkramer44
Joined: 23 Aug 2016
Posts: 136
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| Posted: 08/20/18 9:38 pm ::: |
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| Rock Hard wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
Only three teams saw an increase from 2017; Dallas, Seattle & Phoenix[barely]. Minnesota, Atlanta, Connecticut & Chicago came close. League avoids a 4 digit drop. Overall attendance without New York would be 7,129. League needs to look into having the Liberty play elsewhere in New York.
RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks - 10,642 (-708)
2. Minnesota Lynx - 10,036 (-371)
3. Phoenix Mercury - 9,950 (+37)
4. Seattle Storm - 8,109 (+405)
5. Connecticut Sun - 6,569 (-159)
6. Chicago Sky - 6,358 (-225)
7. Indiana Fever - 6,311 (-1,227)
8. Washington Mystics(16*) - 6,136 (-1,635)
9. Las Vegas Aces - 5,307 (-1,079)
10. Dallas Wings - 4,752 (+880)
11. Atlanta Dream - 4,194 (-258)
12. New York Liberty - 2,823 (-7,066)
WNBA AVERAGE(203) - 6,768 (-947)
*Mystics lost a home game due to the forfeit vs. Vegas on August 3. |
Atlanta has the second best team in the league and they still cannot draw more than 6,000 people per game. |
Atlanta has always been a real strange sports town. During their time on top in the 90s the Braves had a real hard time pulling in crowds, the Falcons have never really been popular and the Hawks are not an exceptionally popular team. So the Dream's struggles in Atlanta are not an isolated incident in regards to sports there.
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josephkramer44
Joined: 23 Aug 2016
Posts: 136
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| Posted: 08/20/18 9:38 pm ::: |
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| Rock Hard wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
Only three teams saw an increase from 2017; Dallas, Seattle & Phoenix[barely]. Minnesota, Atlanta, Connecticut & Chicago came close. League avoids a 4 digit drop. Overall attendance without New York would be 7,129. League needs to look into having the Liberty play elsewhere in New York.
RANK. TEAM(# games) - 2018 Average [+/- 2017 Average)
1. Los Angeles Sparks - 10,642 (-708)
2. Minnesota Lynx - 10,036 (-371)
3. Phoenix Mercury - 9,950 (+37)
4. Seattle Storm - 8,109 (+405)
5. Connecticut Sun - 6,569 (-159)
6. Chicago Sky - 6,358 (-225)
7. Indiana Fever - 6,311 (-1,227)
8. Washington Mystics(16*) - 6,136 (-1,635)
9. Las Vegas Aces - 5,307 (-1,079)
10. Dallas Wings - 4,752 (+880)
11. Atlanta Dream - 4,194 (-258)
12. New York Liberty - 2,823 (-7,066)
WNBA AVERAGE(203) - 6,768 (-947)
*Mystics lost a home game due to the forfeit vs. Vegas on August 3. |
Atlanta has the second best team in the league and they still cannot draw more than 6,000 people per game. |
Atlanta has always been a real strange sports town. During their time on top in the 90s the Braves had a real hard time pulling in crowds, the Falcons have never really been popular and the Hawks are not an exceptionally popular team. So the Dream's struggles in Atlanta are not an isolated incident in regards to sports there.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9609
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| Posted: 08/20/18 10:44 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| Playing in McCamish doesn't help. They drew around 6,000 every year at Phillips. |
But the actual attendance looked well below that, making me wonder how they are surviving without a jersey deal. |
Philips is enormous, which makes the crowds look smaller than they are |
Aren't all the NBA arenas enormous?
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 08/20/18 10:56 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| Playing in McCamish doesn't help. They drew around 6,000 every year at Phillips. |
But the actual attendance looked well below that, making me wonder how they are surviving without a jersey deal. |
Owners with deep pockets? |
Apparently, or else they have figured out ways to make it work that other owners like the previous Sparks owner and the Liberty haven't. But the two women owners don't seem to be of the "NBA owner" level of wealth.
Kelly Loeffler is now listed as Chief Executive Officer of a company named Bakkt, but that happened fairly recently. Her previous bio was with Intercontinental Exchange, Inc. from 2002-2017, where she reached the position of Chief Communications & Marketing Officer. I remember seeing what her husband did once, but can't find it now.
Mary Rockett Brock only has serving on Boards as part of her bio work history. But her husband was the CEO of Coca-Cola from 2006-2016.
One thing about the Dream owners, they seem to be into their team as much as or more than any owners in the league. I believe I see one or both sitting courtside on the side opposite the benches at every Dream home game.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22474
Location: NJ
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| Posted: 08/21/18 4:32 am ::: |
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| josephkramer44 wrote: |
Atlanta has always been a real strange sports town. During their time on top in the 90s the Braves had a real hard time pulling in crowds, the Falcons have never really been popular and the Hawks are not an exceptionally popular team. So the Dream's struggles in Atlanta are not an isolated incident in regards to sports there. |
The Hawks were actually last in the NBA this past season, drawing just 14,409(77% capacity).
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
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| Posted: 08/21/18 6:53 am ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| josephkramer44 wrote: |
Atlanta has always been a real strange sports town. During their time on top in the 90s the Braves had a real hard time pulling in crowds, the Falcons have never really been popular and the Hawks are not an exceptionally popular team. So the Dream's struggles in Atlanta are not an isolated incident in regards to sports there. |
The Hawks were actually last in the NBA this past season, drawing just 14,409(77% capacity). |
Hawks are now in full tank mode. The Atlanta MLS team (now in 2nd season) is leading that league in attendance and setting records. That is a bit surprising but a lot of kids in Atlanta grew up playing soccer and the owner/management might have a clue on how to run a successful team. Aside from that College Football, is huge in Georgia. UGA spring practice usually gets more coverage in the local press than that Hawks.
Despite this being the best season in Dream history - I don't believe there has been a single story about the Dream in since the opening week of the season in the local press.
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lethalweapon3
Joined: 17 May 2018
Posts: 333
Location: ATL ITP, GA
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| Posted: 08/21/18 8:38 am ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| Despite this being the best season in Dream history - I don't believe there has been a single story about the Dream in since the opening week of the season in the local press. |
can confirm.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 08/21/18 10:24 am ::: |
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The Oakland A's might just be the most exciting team in MLB, especially lately.
They just drew 9,300 or so.
The Giants, my team, who are boring and mediocre, will get 30,000+ every game the rest of the season.
Attendance has less to do with "deserving" than we might expect, though I think it is true that winning is crucial. The Giants, for example, are going to have to undergo a painful rebuild, and attendance will drop -- but I'm guessing they still outdraw the A's, even if they're in last and the A's are in first.
Do the Georgia collegiate women's teams draw at all? How about the men's teams?
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 08/21/18 11:01 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| Do the Georgia collegiate women's teams draw at all? How about the men's teams? |
No and no. UGA's men draw about 7k per game, most of which are free student tickets. The women draw about half that number. Georgia Tech draws less than that.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 08/21/18 11:40 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
| Do the Georgia collegiate women's teams draw at all? How about the men's teams? |
No and no. UGA's men draw about 7k per game, most of which are free student tickets. The women draw about half that number. Georgia Tech draws less than that. |
We gotta let Maya know that they just don’t love and appreciate basketball in Georgia like they should.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 08/21/18 1:47 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
| Do the Georgia collegiate women's teams draw at all? How about the men's teams? |
No and no. UGA's men draw about 7k per game, most of which are free student tickets. The women draw about half that number. Georgia Tech draws less than that. |
We gotta let Maya know that they just don’t love and appreciate basketball in Georgia like they should. |
But maybe if someone could convince her that we are making UConn South - Pro Edition in Atlanta then the fans would show up. "Build it Maya and they will come."
Plus Maya has lots of fans that show up every game she is in town.
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