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zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
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PostPosted: 07/13/18 1:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
WNBA 09 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
I have a tough time putting Cambage/Diggins both in the top 4 when the Wings only have a 12-8 record....Truth be told...We should be 14-6 not 12-8.


+1 That 1st game against NY was a disaster along with the Sparks loss without Nneka. Both we should have won there's a few others but those stick out the most.


I completely forgot about the 8 point late 3rd qt lead that we blew against the Nneka-less Sparks...The game that really sticks out besides the loss to NY is the 4th qt meltdown against Phoenix...8 point lead,Cambage picks up 5th foul with 8 minutes left in the game,Fred leaves her in,Cambage picks up 6th foul 11 seconds later...The upsetting thing about that entire sequence is that Brondello took Griner out of the game 1 second earlier...So Liz committed fouls 5 & 6 when Griner was on the bench...There was no need to leave Liz on the court with 8 minutes remaining,up 8,with 5 fouls............That being said,Dallas has won 5 in a row.So i'm willing to forget about those blunders as long as we continue to play at a high level.




Last edited by zune69 on 07/13/18 6:07 am; edited 2 times in total
Michelle89



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PostPosted: 07/13/18 2:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
zune69 wrote:
I have a tough time putting Cambage/Diggins both in the top 4 when the Wings only have a 12-8 record....Truth be told...We should be 14-6 not 12-8.


I have a tough time putting them both in the top 4 when EDD has her Mystics team on the same record and with less talent next to her IMO. Toliver doesnt come close to Cambage or Diggins..

Its time to choose your MVP of your team. Because we know they are going to split some votes between them in the end. Same with Fowles and Maya and Griner and Taurasi.



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"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
Aladyyn



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PostPosted: 07/13/18 2:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
zune69 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
I have a tough time putting Cambage/Diggins both in the top 4 when the Wings only have a 12-8 record....Truth be told...We should be 14-6 not 12-8.


+1 That 1st game against NY was a disaster along with the Sparks loss without Nneka. Both we should have won there's a few others but those stick out the most.


I completely forgot about the 8 point late 3rd qt lead that we blew against the Nneka-less Sparks...The game that really sticks out besides the loss to NY is the 4th qt meltdown against Phoenix...8 point lead,Cambage picks up 5th foul with 8 minutes left in the game,Fred leave her in,Cambage picks up 6th foul 11 seconds later...The upsetting thing about that entire sequence is that Brondello took Griner out of the game 1 second erlier...So Liz committed fouls 5 & 6 when Griner was on the bench...There was no need to leave Liz on the court with 8 minutes remaining,up 8,with 5 fouls............That being said,Dallas has won 5 in a row.So i'm willing to forget about those blunders as long as we continue to play at a high level.

And I'm not sure how that's supposed to help Cambage when she hasn't really been that great during this streak outside of the Indiana game.
J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 07/13/18 2:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Michelle89 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
I have a tough time putting Cambage/Diggins both in the top 4 when the Wings only have a 12-8 record....Truth be told...We should be 14-6 not 12-8.


I have a tough time putting them both in the top 4 when EDD has her Mystics team on the same record and with less talent next to her IMO. Toliver doesnt come close to Cambage or Diggins..

Its time to choose your MVP of your team. Because we know they are going to split some votes between them in the end. Same with Fowles and Maya and Griner and Taurasi.


Yeah the vote splitting is making Stewart look like a shoe in

Now I've got

Stewart
EDD

Griner/DT
Cambage/Diggins-Smith

Wilson

Moore/Fowles
N. Ogwumike/Parker
zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
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PostPosted: 07/13/18 6:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Michelle89 wrote:

I have a tough time putting them both in the top 4 when EDD has her Mystics team on the same record and with less talent next to her IMO. Toliver doesnt come close to Cambage or Diggins..


Agreed….EDD is definitely top 3.

Aladyyn wrote:

And I'm not sure how that's supposed to help Cambage when she hasn't really been that great during this streak outside of the Indiana game.


Last 5 gms:19.6p/8.0r/2.4a/1.2b/56% in only 24.8 mpg

Liz has earned a top 5 spot(4th/5th)...The amount of quality open shots Dallas gets is due to the presence of Cambage…….Cambage is top 5 and Diggins is top 10.


J-Spoon wrote:

N. Ogwumike/Parker


The Sparks don't deserve to have a player in the top 10.......Ogwumike,Parker,Gray and the best defensive backcourt player in the league(Beard)..and you're only in 6th place?...LA's only 11-8 with Parker in the lineup.
zune69



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PostPosted: 07/13/18 6:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Also,Stewart deserves the #1 spot...But lets not underestimate the impact of Howard & Bird.

15-4 with Bird in the lineup...1-2 without.
mavcarter
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PostPosted: 07/13/18 8:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
zune69 wrote:
The Sparks don't deserve to have a player in the top 10.......


Shocked

But it was okay to have Diggins & Cambage in the top 10 while they were playing .500 basketball? Or to have McBride & Wilson in the top 10 and they're not even in the playoffs?
zune69



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PostPosted: 07/13/18 9:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
mavcarter wrote:
zune69 wrote:
The Sparks don't deserve to have a player in the top 10.......


Shocked

But it was okay to have Diggins & Cambage in the top 10 while they were playing .500 basketball? Or to have McBride & Wilson in the top 10 and they're not even in the playoffs?


2 players carrying the load vs 4 players carrying the load(Beard defensively)...That's the difference.

Cambage-19.7p/9.4r/2.2a/1.8r
Diggins-19.5p/6.5a/3.7r/1.5s


Parker-16.7p/6.8r/4.3a/1.1b/1.1s
Ogwumike-16.1p/7.4r/2.1a/1.7s
Gray-14.5p/5.2a/3.2r/1.6s
Beard-Defense,defense,defense

Cambage/Diggins have had to do a little more carrying than LA's star players....Lets not forget that Johnson/Powers missed a combined 9 games,and Christmas had a season ending injury...Sure,they've gotten some key contributions from Stevens,Gray,Johnson,Powers and Thornton......but Carson,Sims,Lavender,Williams and Beard have also had their moments on offense.

How many games have we said the LA star players are playing lazy and giving full effort?
mavcarter
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Joined: 02 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: 07/13/18 9:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
zune69 wrote:
mavcarter wrote:
zune69 wrote:
The Sparks don't deserve to have a player in the top 10.......


Shocked

But it was okay to have Diggins & Cambage in the top 10 while they were playing .500 basketball? Or to have McBride & Wilson in the top 10 and they're not even in the playoffs?


2 players carrying the load vs 4 players carrying the load(Beard defensively)...That's the difference.

Cambage-19.7p/9.4r/2.2a/1.8r
Diggins-19.5p/6.5a/3.7r/1.5s


Parker-16.7p/6.8r/4.3a/1.1b/1.1s
Ogwumike-16.1p/7.4r/2.1a/1.7s
Gray-14.5p/5.2a/3.2r/1.6s
Beard-Defense,defense,defense

Cambage/Diggins have had to do a little more carrying than LA's star players....Lets not forget that Johnson/Powers missed a combined 9 games,and Christmas had a season ending injury...Sure,they've gotten some key contributions from Stevens,Gray,Johnson,Powers and Thornton......but Carson,Sims,Lavender,Williams and Beard have also had their moments on offense.

How many games have we said the LA star players are playing lazy and giving full effort?


Not disagreeing with any of that.

Just think it's interesting to say the Sparks don't deserve one player, while a .500 basketball at one point had two players in the top 10 and another team that's not in the playoffs had two players in the top 10 as well. That's all. Very Happy
zune69



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PostPosted: 07/13/18 9:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Wilson-20.6p/8.5r/2.4a/1.7b
McBride-18.9p/3.6r/2.8a/47%/45%/89%

Jefferson(Starting PG) 17 gms missed
Harrison(Key rotation player) has missed all 21 games
Very little production from the center position.
mavcarter
#NATC


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PostPosted: 07/13/18 10:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
They still aren't in the playoffs..

Let me make a bid for Quigley in the top 10, we were 2-0 to start the season, but Dolson went down with that injury which is when our season went down hill. And if we still had conferences, the Sky would be 4th in the East. I mean, that's fair right? Very Happy
zune69



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PostPosted: 07/13/18 10:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Dallas has won 12 games...Cambage/Diggins are hugely responsible for 9-10 of those wins

vs NY-51 pts on 16-30 fg
vs Chi-57 pts on 25-33 fg
vs LV-46 pts on 14-28 fg
vs LV-48 pts on 19-40 fg
vs Ind-58 pts on 17-36 fg
vs Sea-52 pts on 17-31 fg
vs ATL-46 pts on 16-25 fg

vs LA-Diggins 6p/11a--Cambage 20 pts in 21 minutes
vs LA-Diggins 22p/11a--Cambage 12p/6r -ejected in 2nd qt
vs Phoe-Diggins 20p/4a--Cambage 13p/3r/3a in blowout
vs ATL-Cambage 14p/14r--Diggins 24p/5r/4a
vs Ind-Cambage 17p/9r--Diggins 8p/7r in blowout
zune69



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PostPosted: 07/13/18 10:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
mavcarter wrote:
They still aren't in the playoffs..

Let me make a bid for Quigley in the top 10, we were 2-0 to start the season, but Dolson went down with that injury which is when our season went down hill. And if we still had conferences, the Sky would be 4th in the East. I mean, that's fair right? Very Happy


Laughing

Quigley's a great shooter,but she can barely create her own shot.She's also a poor rebounder and mediocre defender.
mavcarter
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PostPosted: 07/13/18 11:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
zune69 wrote:
mavcarter wrote:
They still aren't in the playoffs..

Let me make a bid for Quigley in the top 10, we were 2-0 to start the season, but Dolson went down with that injury which is when our season went down hill. And if we still had conferences, the Sky would be 4th in the East. I mean, that's fair right? Very Happy


Laughing

Quigley's a great shooter,but she can barely create her own shot.She's also a poor rebounder and mediocre defender.


Evil or Very Mad
Richyyy



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PostPosted: 07/13/18 11:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
zune69 wrote:
Dallas has won 12 games...Cambage/Diggins are hugely responsible for 9-10 of those wins

How many of the losses are they responsible for?



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zune69



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PostPosted: 07/13/18 12:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Richyyy wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Dallas has won 12 games...Cambage/Diggins are hugely responsible for 9-10 of those wins

How many of the losses are they responsible for?


Dallas has 8 losses:Minnesota(3),Phoenix(2),Los Angeles,Seattle,New york

In 8 losses:
Cambage:18.5p/9.6r/2.7a/1.5b/53% fg
Diggoins:15.1p/6.6a/32% fg

Cambage still performs at a relatively high level even when Dallas loses.The one exception would be the choke job against the Liberty(Defense)...Diggins on the other hand has had more than her share of mediocre performances.However,Skylar has still managed to average nearly 7 asst per game in defeat....My estimated answer to your question is 3 games:

Blew 14 point 2nd half lead to the Liberty
Blew 8 point 2nd half lead to Sparks...Skylar shot 4-18 fg
Blew 8 point 4th qt lead to Mercury...Stupid fouls by Cambage...Skylar shot 4-16 fg

At the end of the day.Dallas would be a lottery team if they didn't have the services of Cambage or Diggins...and would be the worst team in the league if they were missing both...Skylar is the best PG in the league...and Cambage is arguably the best Center in the league.Any replacement would be a downgrade.
mavcarter
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PostPosted: 07/13/18 12:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
A team that loses two of its franchise/superstar players should be a lottery team if they are in playoff contention (Phoenix, Seattle, Minnesota, Dallas, Atlanta)..

EDIT: Now that you mention it Dallas would still have Johnson, Gray, Powers, and Stevens. While there's no superstar in that group (Stevens might become one), that's still pretty decent depth. I think the other teams would be more screwed if they lost their two stars..
zune69



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PostPosted: 07/13/18 1:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
mavcarter wrote:
A team that loses two of its franchise/superstar players should be a lottery team if they are in playoff contention (Phoenix, Seattle, Minnesota, Dallas, Atlanta)..

EDIT: Now that you mention it Dallas would still have Johnson, Gray, Powers, and Stevens. While there's no superstar in that group (Stevens might become one), that's still pretty decent depth. I think the other teams would be more screwed if they lost their two stars..



We've seen Tulsa/Dallas miss the playoffs despite having talented teams:

2016-Diggins,Sims,Johnson,Christmas,Pierson,Powers,Phillips(11-23)
2013-Cambage,Diggins,Johnson,Williams,Wiggins,TJJ,Powell(11-23)

You can't just put talent on the floor and expect to win.

Sea,LA and ATL would still be competitive:

Seattle-Bird,Howard,Clark,Langhorne,Canada,KML,Paris
Los Angeles-Gray,Sims,Lavender,Beard,Carson,Vadeeva
Atlanta-Sykes,Breland,Williams,Billings,Montgomery,Bentley

Phoenix/Minnesota would get hit the hardest.
mavcarter
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PostPosted: 07/13/18 1:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
zune69 wrote:
Sea,LA and ATL would still be competitive:

Seattle-Bird,Howard,Clark,Langhorne,Canada,KML,Paris
Los Angeles-Gray,Sims,Lavender,Beard,Carson,Vadeeva
Atlanta-Sykes,Breland,Williams,Billings,Montgomery,Bentley.


This team is barely above .500 with a superstar wing and a star guard. I highly doubt they'd still be competitive. Seattle and LA do still have decent depth, that you're right about.
Michelle89



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PostPosted: 07/13/18 4:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
mavcarter wrote:
zune69 wrote:
mavcarter wrote:
They still aren't in the playoffs..

Let me make a bid for Quigley in the top 10, we were 2-0 to start the season, but Dolson went down with that injury which is when our season went down hill. And if we still had conferences, the Sky would be 4th in the East. I mean, that's fair right? Very Happy


Laughing

Quigley's a great shooter,but she can barely create her own shot.She's also a poor rebounder and mediocre defender.


Evil or Very Mad


Lets not underestimate the importance of Sloot



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"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
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PostPosted: 07/20/18 4:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
http://www.wnba.com/news/race-to-mvp-week-9-where-does-cambage-rank-after-historic-performance/amp/

1. Breanna Stewart, Seattle Storm
Last Week: 1
2. Liz Cambage, Dallas Wings
Last Week: 5
3. Sylvia Fowles, Minnesota Lynx
Last Week: 2
4. Brittney Griner, Phoenix Mercury
Last Week: 3
5. Diana Taurasi, Phoenix Mercury
Last Week: 4
6. Candace Parker, Los Angeles Sparks
Last Week: 7
7. Elena Delle Donne, Washington Mystics
Last Week: 6
8. Skylar Diggins-Smith, Dallas Wings
Last Week: 10
9. A’ja Wilson, Las Vegas Aces
Last Week: 8
10. Angel McCoughtry, Atlanta Dream
Last Week: Unranked



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zune69



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PostPosted: 07/20/18 6:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
1.Fowles is too high.

2.Take McCoughtry off,and put McBride on.

3.I would switch A'ja and Skylar.

4.I would also switch EDD and Parker.
mercfan3



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PostPosted: 07/20/18 8:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
zune69 wrote:
Also,Stewart deserves the #1 spot...But lets not underestimate the impact of Howard & Bird.

15-4 with Bird in the lineup...1-2 without.


I think you could make an argument that Bird has been the most valuable player to the Storm every season of her career.

Usually not best..but most valuable.



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PostPosted: 07/20/18 8:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
mercfan3 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Also,Stewart deserves the #1 spot...But lets not underestimate the impact of Howard & Bird.

15-4 with Bird in the lineup...1-2 without.


I think you could make an argument that Bird has been the most valuable player to the Storm every season of her career.

Usually not best..but most valuable.


I'll say the same thing I always say about Bird in this context. A great PG doesn't win MVP, a great PG makes her teammate the MVP.

Plus, Bird has only missed two games this season, both of which the Storm lost



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PostPosted: 07/20/18 8:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Agreed about Fowles being too high. If Cambage can continue to put up 30/15, she'll edge out Stewart for MVP. But right now it's a two woman race.



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