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CBiebel



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 611
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PostPosted: 04/21/18 1:47 am    ::: Final Four stats Reply Reply with quote

I was doing some digging about Final Fours recently and found out something interesting.

Only 9 teams have been to more than 3 Final Fours!

UConn: 19
UT: 18
Stanford: 13
La Tech: 10
ND: 8
Maryland: 5
UGA: 5
LSU: 5
Duke: 4

Of the teams that have made it more than 3 times, UConn, Stanford, ND, and Maryland have made it in the last 10 years. UT, La Tech, UGA, LSU, and Duke haven't.

11 teams have made it 3 times.

A total of 42 programs have made the Final Four.

Outside of the very first year of the NCAAs (1982) there is only one year when all 4 teams had never made the Final Four before.

Trivia question: What year was that? (Hint: none of those teams have made the Final Four since)


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 04/21/18 3:00 am    ::: Re: Final Four stats Reply Reply with quote

CBiebel wrote:

Trivia question: What year was that? (Hint: none of those teams have made the Final Four since)


My guess would be the year Texas Tech won it, which I think was 1993. They played tOSU in the finals, but don't know the other 2 without looking it up. I saw that final on TV before I really followed WBB. I had watched a few other years of Final Four games at that point.


Carol Anne



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 04/21/18 7:14 am    ::: Re: Final Four stats Reply Reply with quote

"The Final Four consisted of Ohio State, Iowa, Vanderbilt, and Texas Tech, with Texas Tech defeating Ohio State 84-82 to win its first NCAA title."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_NCAA_Division_I_Women's_Basketball_Tournament


PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 04/21/18 9:00 am    ::: Re: Final Four stats Reply Reply with quote

Carol Anne wrote:
"The Final Four consisted of Ohio State, Iowa, Vanderbilt, and Texas Tech, with Texas Tech defeating Ohio State 84-82 to win its first NCAA title."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_NCAA_Division_I_Women's_Basketball_Tournament


Not only new that year, but none of the teams have been back.


CBiebel



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 611
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PostPosted: 04/21/18 3:15 pm    ::: Re: Final Four stats Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Carol Anne wrote:
"The Final Four consisted of Ohio State, Iowa, Vanderbilt, and Texas Tech, with Texas Tech defeating Ohio State 84-82 to win its first NCAA title."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_NCAA_Division_I_Women's_Basketball_Tournament


Not only new that year, but none of the teams have been back.


That was the thing that really stood out for me when I was done with the research. At first it was just "Huh, all new teams that year." Then later it was "Wait a minute..."

I was also surprised that Tech only made it once. I realize that they did win the NC, but I used to think of them as a more "steady" power that had made a few of them.


Phil



Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 04/21/18 4:36 pm    ::: Re: Final Four stats Reply Reply with quote

Carol Anne wrote:
"The Final Four consisted of Ohio State, Iowa, Vanderbilt, and Texas Tech, with Texas Tech defeating Ohio State 84-82 to win its first NCAA title."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_NCAA_Division_I_Women's_Basketball_Tournament


I wasn't fast enough to respond before you did, but I can take credit for adding that to the article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1993_NCAA_Division_I_Women%27s_Basketball_Tournament&diff=prev&oldid=520519866


CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 17028
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PostPosted: 04/23/18 2:10 pm    ::: Re: Final Four stats Reply Reply with quote

CBiebel wrote:
Only 9 teams have been to more than 3 Final Fours!

UConn: 19
UT: 18
Stanford: 13
La Tech: 10
ND: 8
Maryland: 5
UGA: 5
LSU: 5
Duke: 4

11 teams have made it 3 times.

A total of 42 programs have made the Final Four.


What was surprising to me was that for all of its history, Texas has only made 3 Final Four appearances (with one national title).


linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 04/23/18 3:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Today they only count NFL championships that happened after the AFL merged into the league.
I'm not curious enough to do the research but I wonder what the stats are for making final fours in the years when teams had to win 4 games to get there?


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 04/23/18 4:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

How many basketball teams have won the NC when they had lost to another team in the Final Four during the regular season by more than 30 points?
Phil



Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 04/23/18 7:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
Today they only count NFL championships that happened after the AFL merged into the league.
I'm not curious enough to do the research but I wonder what the stats are for making final fours in the years when teams had to win 4 games to get there?


Immaculata 6
Delta State 3
ODU 3
UCLA 2
LaTech 3
Rutgers 1
Mississippi state college for women 2
West Chester State 1
Cal State Fullerton 2
Queens 1
Southern Connecticut St. 3
Indiana 1
William Penn 2
Wayland Baptist 2
LSU 1
Tennessee 4
Montclair State 1
Maryland 1
South Carolina 1
USC 1
Texas 1
Villanova 1

Unfortunately, this adds up to 43 and it should add up to 44 so I missed one.


CBiebel



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: 04/24/18 3:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
How many basketball teams have won the NC when they had lost to another team in the Final Four during the regular season by more than 30 points?


Don't have that info. My guess is that it depends on how many teams had to play on the road against a top 3 team after losing a 4th player to an ACL. It does often take time to adjust to those kinds of things. You are aware that the next time they played it was just a 2 point win, right? You seem to have forgotten to mention that.

Tennessee once won a NC after losing 10 games. The NC still counts.

UConn won a NC after having lost to the same team 3 times previously in that season. That NC still counts.

As I believe Auriemma once said, what matters is winning 6 games in a row at the end of the season. I'm not sure the exact wording he used, but that was the gist of it.

BTW Glenn, I have to say that I'm kind of disappointed. This post seems so beneath you.


CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 04/24/18 1:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CBiebel wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
How many basketball teams have won the NC when they had lost to another team in the Final Four during the regular season by more than 30 points?


Don't have that info. My guess is that it depends on how many teams had to play on the road against a top 3 team after losing a 4th player to an ACL. It does often take time to adjust to those kinds of things. You are aware that the next time they played it was just a 2 point win, right? You seem to have forgotten to mention that.

Tennessee once won a NC after losing 10 games. The NC still counts.

UConn won a NC after having lost to the same team 3 times previously in that season. That NC still counts.


Not quite the same, but Duke defeated Rutgers by 40 points during the 2006-07 regular season, only to lose to Rutgers by one point in the 2007 Sweet 16. Rutgers made it to the 2007 National Championship, losing the final to Tennessee.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 04/24/18 6:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
CBiebel wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
How many basketball teams have won the NC when they had lost to another team in the Final Four during the regular season by more than 30 points?


Don't have that info. My guess is that it depends on how many teams had to play on the road against a top 3 team after losing a 4th player to an ACL. It does often take time to adjust to those kinds of things. You are aware that the next time they played it was just a 2 point win, right? You seem to have forgotten to mention that.

Tennessee once won a NC after losing 10 games. The NC still counts.

UConn won a NC after having lost to the same team 3 times previously in that season. That NC still counts.


Not quite the same, but Duke defeated Rutgers by 40 points during the 2006-07 regular season, only to lose to Rutgers by one point in the 2007 Sweet 16. Rutgers made it to the 2007 National Championship, losing the final to Tennessee.


Of course, ND's NC counts. I brought up my question only because I thought the spirit of this topic, and the related one about Villanova's and Notre Dame's founding dates, to be FF things that are statistically unusual, odd or unprecedented.

Good try, Cam, but not quite, as you say. I will even include all of NCAA men's basketball FF's in my question.
CBiebel



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: 04/25/18 2:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
CBiebel wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
How many basketball teams have won the NC when they had lost to another team in the Final Four during the regular season by more than 30 points?


Don't have that info. My guess is that it depends on how many teams had to play on the road against a top 3 team after losing a 4th player to an ACL. It does often take time to adjust to those kinds of things. You are aware that the next time they played it was just a 2 point win, right? You seem to have forgotten to mention that.

Tennessee once won a NC after losing 10 games. The NC still counts.

UConn won a NC after having lost to the same team 3 times previously in that season. That NC still counts.


Not quite the same, but Duke defeated Rutgers by 40 points during the 2006-07 regular season, only to lose to Rutgers by one point in the 2007 Sweet 16. Rutgers made it to the 2007 National Championship, losing the final to Tennessee.


Of course, ND's NC counts. I brought up my question only because I thought the spirit of this topic, and the related one about Villanova's and Notre Dame's founding dates, to be FF things that are statistically unusual, odd or unprecedented.

Good try, Cam, but not quite, as you say. I will even include all of NCAA men's basketball FF's in my question.


Sorry, it just looked like a snide response. Confused

If I have time, I might try to look it up.


CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 04/25/18 1:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Not quite the same, but Duke defeated Rutgers by 40 points during the 2006-07 regular season, only to lose to Rutgers by one point in the 2007 Sweet 16. Rutgers made it to the 2007 National Championship, losing the final to Tennessee.


Good try, Cam, but not quite, as you say. I will even include all of NCAA men's basketball FF's in my question.


Best I could come up with on the men's side - and it is not the same season, but fairly similar teams - was Duke losing to UNLV in the 1990 NCAA Championship by 30 points (largest ever), then coming back in the 1991 Final Four to defeat a then-undefeated UNLV team by two.


PRballer



Joined: 18 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 04/25/18 3:53 pm    ::: Re: Final Four stats Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Carol Anne wrote:
"The Final Four consisted of Ohio State, Iowa, Vanderbilt, and Texas Tech, with Texas Tech defeating Ohio State 84-82 to win its first NCAA title."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_NCAA_Division_I_Women's_Basketball_Tournament


Not only new that year, but none of the teams have been back.


1993 was a big year for WCBB with the Atlanta Final Four.

-Four new teams making the FF for the FIRST TIME
-FIRST advance sell out for a women's FF there at the Omni
-FIRST time the women's FF made the Vegas betting lines
-and we all know that FF created a hero and household name in Sheryl Swoopes, at a level the women's game hadn't really seen since Cheryl Miller or Nancy Lieberman.


CBiebel



Joined: 23 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: 04/27/18 8:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
How many basketball teams have won the NC when they had lost to another team in the Final Four during the regular season by more than 30 points?


Well, I did some digging and the answer is none, at least on the Women's side. It wasn't as time consuming as I thought it might be. UT only had one loss by more than 30 points and that wasn't during a NC year. I recalled back in 2001 when ND beat UConn by 16 that they said that it was the worst loss for UConn since 1993, so UConn hasn't had a 30 point loss, so that's 18 of the NCs right there I didn't need to look at (besides some of them being undefeated seasons).

The worst previous regular season loss by a National Champion was Maryland's 86-68 loss to Duke in 2006.

This year's ND team is probably unique among NC winners due to the regular injuries that would occur. It wasn't just the number, but the timing. As soon as the team seemed to adjust to the previous injury, another one would take out a player and the team would need to adjust again. The loss at Louisville was a perfect storm: a game on the road against a top 3 team that had a chip on its shoulder and ND having to adjust to having just 7 scholarship players to play against a team that has a really rough style of play.

ND's "NC form" didn't really start to show up until a few games later, in the 2nd half of the UT game. That was the point where they really got the knack for how they were going to play the rest of the season.


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