RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

Off Beat Thoughts

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
canadaball



Joined: 24 May 2013
Posts: 233



Back to top
PostPosted: 04/15/18 1:40 pm    ::: Off Beat Thoughts Reply Reply with quote

One problem with WNBA (and NCAA women's) media coverage is the cheerleading aspect. Rarely is heard a critical discussion of anything from draft picks to poor use of end game timeouts.
Some observations: Very often it is not the pick #, but, the team a rookie joins. Consider Lexie Brown (#9) who fills out a Sun roster loaded with veteran guards. What chance does she have to see the light of day playing behind (count 'em) 5 returning guards? I am no fan of Banham, but it is tough to beat out such a previous high pick. Now consider the far luckier Mavunga (#2 pick second round) who gets to join an Indiana team with a woeful front line. Stephanie showed flashes at Ohio State, so she may actually get a chance.
There are some interesting nuances. Given the Sun just picked up big Cayla George from Phoenix, I think that last year's first round pick Brionna Jones (cannot run; cannot jump) is not long for the league.
Consider that Washington, in a minor surprise, chose guard Atkins (can she go right?) with the #7 pick. Coach Mike Thibeau is known as a pretty astute talent evaluator (he chose Whalen as a #4 pick....of course, we will forget Kelsey Griffin as a #3 pick in 2010). Anyway, what makes the Atkins pick interesting is that Thibeau passed on guard Vivians (who went next). His daughter is an assistant at Mississippi State, so it appears the Thibeau family has its doubts.
I realize that the mid second round is a crap shoot, but Atlanta wasting the #4 pick in second round on Kristy Wallace is a joke. The Aussie had a great college season, but her game is quite doubtful for the W, and with a recent ACL tear, who knows when and if she will ever return stateside. I, for one, would go with Rutgers' Tyler Scaife (8th pick second round). The kid comes from a program led by talent supressor C. Viv. Check out the number of her former players who actually improve in the W.
I think it is a fair observation that rookie shooting in the W drops significantly from college #'s. Defenders are bigger, quicker, and stronger plus the 3 point line is further away. With this in mind, I worry about the offensive abilities of both Gabby Williams and Jordin Canada. At least the UConn star brings super athleticism, and will play at the 3-4. If fellow UConn alumnus, Tamika Williams (could not shoot outside 6 feet), could carve out a nice W career, why not the more athletic Gabby? Canada brings more doubts. She is listed at 5'6", but judging by her high heeled pose with diminutive Holly Rowe she might be 5"5. The history of midget WNBA guards is sketchy; of course, there is future Hall of Famer Becky Hammon (given her strong outside game , not comparable to Canada). Helen Darling, interestingly also coached by Dan Hughes, had a build totally the opposite of slender Jordin. Going way back, there was all time unique pest Debbie Black. In the current W, Leilani Mitchell is very similar in size and build to the UCLA rookie. Mitchell has carved out a nice career, but, with limitations at both ends of court, she must be well spotted. Unlike Canada, Leilani is an outside killer 3 point shooter. Interestingly, none of the peanuts have ever won a championship.
On the draft show, much was made of Canada's improved 3 point shooting during her collegiate career (13%-26%-35%-38%). I have watched her play. She just does not seem to be a solid outside threat. She must either gather or shoot with forward momentum to hit from outside. Considering the Pac 10, while fun to watch, is hardly a nexus for tough physical defense, my guess is Canada will be very lucky to hit 25-30% from the longer range WNBA 3 point line. More concerning is her overall field goal % stuck in the low 40's. This is a player who feasted on turning over opponents, piling up lots of layups. My guess is her shooting from 10-15 feet is well below 40%, and can easily project her to fall below 30% in the W.


calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 2823
Location: Carson City


Back to top
PostPosted: 04/16/18 1:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree with your concerns about Canada to a degree. She does not have a WNBA outside shot, and at her height it will make little sense for her to attempt many mid-range shots. From an offensive perspective she is going to need to be a facilitator in the half court offense. The one skill she does have, like Becky Hammon, is the ability to drive and draw fouls by pinballing off bigger players. She has a very quick first step, but whether she will be able to use it if she can't hit the outside jumper to keep the defense honest is questionable.


merlina



Joined: 07 Jun 2015
Posts: 104



Back to top
PostPosted: 04/16/18 9:36 am    ::: Re: Off Beat Thoughts Reply Reply with quote

canadaball wrote:
Interestingly, none of the peanuts have ever won a championship.


Temeka Johnson won one with Phoenix.


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 48275



Back to top
PostPosted: 04/16/18 10:42 am    ::: Re: Off Beat Thoughts Reply Reply with quote

canadaball wrote:
Very often it is not the pick #, but, the team a rookie joins. Consider Lexie Brown (#9) who fills out a Sun roster loaded with veteran guards. What chance does she have to see the light of day playing behind (count 'em) 5 returning guards?


I count 4 solid returners in Banham, Bentley, JThomas, and CWilliams. They also have Romero trying for a spot along with camp invite Jessica January.

canadaball wrote:
I am no fan of Banham, but it is tough to beat out such a previous high pick.


From the articles I’ve read it sounds like they may no longer consider Banham a PG. Might end up being the third SG if Brown assimilates well.

canadaball wrote:
Now consider the far luckier Mavunga (#2 pick second round) who gets to join an Indiana team with a woeful front line. Stephanie showed flashes at Ohio State, so she may actually get a chance.


And her sister-in-law is on the team... for now anyway. The Fever is one big family affair.

canadaball wrote:
Consider that Washington, in a minor surprise, chose guard Atkins (can she go right?) with the #7 pick.


Seemed like he drafted a temporary substitute for Hill as she rehabs a few more weeks. I thought it was a knucklehead move considering his options at #7. Sounds like he inquired into Vadeeva but didn’t bite. Maybe he caught onto the UMMC possibility. But he could have drafted Vivians, Nurse, or Brown. We’ll see how it goes.

canadaball wrote:
Coach Mike Thibeau is known as a pretty astute talent evaluator


Overrated

canadaball wrote:
of course, we will forget Kelsey Griffin as a #3 pick in 2010).


Why? I’m sure we can come up with plenty other duds too. To his credit, he often picks lower but gets a little too creative. I guess he scored his badge of honor with the Meesseman pick. That’s about it.

canadaball wrote:
I realize that the mid second round is a crap shoot, but Atlanta wasting the #4 pick in second round on Kristy Wallace is a joke. The Aussie had a great college season, but her game is quite doubtful for the W, and with a recent ACL tear, who knows when and if she will ever return stateside.


I thought the deferral picks started a little too early for my tastes for a deep draft. Sign of the times, I guess. No room for a lot of rookies even in training camp. Plan ahead for next year’s training camp. Laimbeer has the worst roster to work with and he’s grabbing a Korean international at #17. I suppose he was worried Agler would grab all the international players so he got in early (with Reeve’s help).

canadaball wrote:
I, for one, would go with Rutgers' Tyler Scaife (8th pick second round). The kid comes from a program led by talent supressor C. Viv. Check out the number of her former players who actually improve in the W.


Could her heart condition become an issue in the future? Probably enough question marks to scare some. Not very big for a straight SG.


canadaball wrote:
Canada brings more doubts. She is listed at 5'6", but judging by her high heeled pose with diminutive Holly Rowe she might be 5"5. The history of midget WNBA guards is sketchy


I thought Hughes might take Canada because he’s not put off by small PG’s. I don’t care for them myself. They have to work too hard to go against the bigger players and they can be a defensive liability. I think she compares to Jefferson, who struggled with injuries all last season.

canadaball wrote:
Leilani Mitchell is very similar in size and build to the UCLA rookie. Mitchell has carved out a nice career, but, with limitations at both ends of court, she must be well spotted. Unlike Canada, Leilani is an outside killer 3 point shooter. Interestingly, none of the peanuts have ever won a championship.


I like comparing Leilani Mitchell to Brooke McCarty, who didn’t get drafted, but got a Sparks camp invite (good luck with that).



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned


Last edited by Shades on 04/16/18 12:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
canadaball



Joined: 24 May 2013
Posts: 233



Back to top
PostPosted: 04/16/18 12:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I guess you are counting newly re-signed veteran Stricklin as a non-guard, but considering at least half her offense is shooting threes, I feel that she eats up some perimeter minutes.
How could I forget WNBA/Phoenix Mercury champion Tomeka Johnson?


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 48275



Back to top
PostPosted: 04/16/18 12:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

canadaball wrote:
I guess you are counting newly re-signed veteran Stricklin as a non-guard, but considering at least half her offense is shooting threes, I feel that she eats up some perimeter minutes.


I don’t consider a SF (small forward) a guard position, even though it is more of a perimeter position. She started 29 games last year, and they re-signed her for multiple years, so I’m guessing they like her in that slot? I suppose they could decide to start Chiney at PF, thus creating the domino effect of moving Thomas to SF. Then where does Stricklen go? Do they start her as a big guard and bench Williams and Bentley? I think it’s more likely in that scenario that Stricklen becomes the backup SF.

canadaball wrote:
How could I forget WNBA/Phoenix Mercury champion Tomeka Johnson?


I made the argument myself back in 2016 when debating the merits of Jefferson. One diminutive championship guard in 20 years does not make a strong case for diminutive guards.



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
Luuuc



Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 18432



Back to top
PostPosted: 04/16/18 7:19 pm    ::: Re: Off Beat Thoughts Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
canadaball wrote:
Coach Mike Thibeau is known as a pretty astute talent evaluator


Overrated

canadaball wrote:
of course, we will forget Kelsey Griffin as a #3 pick in 2010).


Why? I’m sure we can come up with plenty other duds too. To his credit, he often picks lower but gets a little too creative. I guess he scored his badge of honor with the Meesseman pick. That’s about it.


Erin Phillips at #21 in a draft where #3 and #4 were Sandora Irvin & Kendra Wecker was pretty good value.



_________________
Seems rike no one takes me serirousreee
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 56698
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 04/16/18 7:34 pm    ::: Re: Off Beat Thoughts Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Shades wrote:
canadaball wrote:
Coach Mike Thibeau is known as a pretty astute talent evaluator


Overrated

canadaball wrote:
of course, we will forget Kelsey Griffin as a #3 pick in 2010).


Why? I’m sure we can come up with plenty other duds too. To his credit, he often picks lower but gets a little too creative. I guess he scored his badge of honor with the Meesseman pick. That’s about it.


Erin Phillips at #21 in a draft where #3 and #4 were Sandora Irvin & Kendra Wecker was pretty good value.


OTOH, he passed up Tiffany Hayes to get Astan Dabo (last seen scoring 8 ppg for a 10th place team in the French second league)



_________________
Accept certain inalienable truths:
prices will rise
politicians will philander
you too will get old
and when you do you'll fantasize that when you were young
prices were reasonable
politicians were noble
and children respected their elders
Luuuc



Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 18432



Back to top
PostPosted: 04/16/18 7:43 pm    ::: Re: Off Beat Thoughts Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
Shades wrote:
canadaball wrote:
Coach Mike Thibeau is known as a pretty astute talent evaluator


Overrated

canadaball wrote:
of course, we will forget Kelsey Griffin as a #3 pick in 2010).


Why? I’m sure we can come up with plenty other duds too. To his credit, he often picks lower but gets a little too creative. I guess he scored his badge of honor with the Meesseman pick. That’s about it.


Erin Phillips at #21 in a draft where #3 and #4 were Sandora Irvin & Kendra Wecker was pretty good value.


OTOH, he passed up Tiffany Hayes to get Astan Dabo (last seen scoring 8 ppg for a 10th place team in the French second league)


True, and I'm not claiming he's great or anything, but he was far from the only one to ignore Tiffany Hayes. At least Dabo is still playing basketball, unlike Phoenix's #6 overall pick.



_________________
Seems rike no one takes me serirousreee
NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 12166



Back to top
PostPosted: 04/16/18 10:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Everybody has some hits and misses. I do think Thibault drafts according to system over best player available. Which can hurt you at times, in spite of the Meesseman home run. I think the best coaches draft the best talent and adjust their way of of doing business to the talent.

One of the reasons I liked what the Libs did is because they took the best players available at each of the first two draft positions. It didn't seem like they were trying to fit players into a specific philosophy.



_________________
The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
merlina



Joined: 07 Jun 2015
Posts: 104



Back to top
PostPosted: 04/16/18 10:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

canadaball wrote:
I guess you are counting newly re-signed veteran Stricklin as a non-guard, but considering at least half her offense is shooting threes, I feel that she eats up some perimeter minutes.
How could I forget WNBA/Phoenix Mercury champion Tomeka Johnson?


She's one of the tiniest peanuts!


canadaball



Joined: 24 May 2013
Posts: 233



Back to top
PostPosted: 04/17/18 2:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="Shades"]
canadaball wrote:
I guess you are counting newly re-signed veteran Stricklin as a non-guard, but considering at least half her offense is shooting threes, I feel that she eats up some perimeter minutes.


I don’t consider a SF (small forward) a guard position, even though it is more of a perimeter position. She started 29 games last year, and they re-signed her for multiple years, so I’m guessing they like her in that slot? I suppose they could decide to start Chiney at PF, thus creating the domino effect of moving Thomas to SF. Then where does Stricklen go? Do they start her as a big guard and bench Williams and Bentley? I think it’s more likely in that scenario that Stricklen becomes the backup SF.

canadaball wrote:
How could I forget WNBA/Phoenix Mercury champion Tomeka Johnson?


You raise some interesting points about the Sun this season. Prior to last year, former first round pick Alyssa Thomas was unimpressive playing the 3 position. Her inability to hit from outside 6 feet was a killer. The first few games of 2017, the same pattern of mediocre play continued. The loss of Chiney, and injuries to Tuck, pretty much forced Alyssa to the 4 spot (along with the move of Stricklin to the 3). The strong, yet undersized Thomas exploded in her new role. Her quickness and ability to get near the basket saw her reach All Star level play.
Given the way the WNBA teams treat injury discussions (usually CIA level secrecy), we do not know how Chiney is doing. Rebecca Lobo did drop a clue about her ESPN colleague, saying that Chiney would be taking things slowly, and was projecting on court appearances sometime in June. For a player with so much missed time, this is not a good report; however, should the ex-Stanford great return to form, I do not think it will be a giant boost to the Sun. Chiney, like Thomas, has little outside game, so they are unlikely to fit together (they both want the same places on the court). One of these two, could be unhappy.
Speaking of possible unhappiness, I am surprised that Atlanta went for Rene Montgomery. Layshia Clarendon had a breakout 2017 season as pg and team leader. Her assists skyrocketed, with few turnovers. The improved play put her into the USA Olympic pool. Yes, I realize she is a poor three point shooter, but what will her role be in Atlanta with the arrival of Montgomery? Tiff Hayes at the 2, and Angel at the 3 are big minute eaters, so either Rene or Layshia is coming off the bench with reduced minutes. Rene Montgomery had an excellent stint with the Lynx as Whalen's backup. She always has had talent, but let's not forget that Rene has been dumped by several teams. She could drive coaches crazy. With the Sun, one year she was WNBA 6th woman, but by the end of the following season, Thibeau barely used her. The stop at Minnesota was last chance saloon for Rene
(failure there and out of league), and she stayed within the team framework (helped by the presence of so many veterans), Who knows what will happen in Atlanta; another team where someone is likely to be unhappy?


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 48275



Back to top
PostPosted: 04/17/18 3:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

canadaball wrote:
Rebecca Lobo did drop a clue about her ESPN colleague, saying that Chiney would be taking things slowly, and was projecting on court appearances sometime in June.


This could be valuable information. If Chiney isn’t even ready to go at the start of the season (which surprises me since I’ve seen her work out), that might solidify her as a bench player the whole season.

canadaball wrote:
One of these two, could be unhappy.


But to suggest that won’t be well-received by some.

canadaball wrote:
Speaking of possible unhappiness, I am surprised that Atlanta went for Rene Montgomery. Layshia Clarendon had a breakout 2017 season as pg and team leader. Her assists skyrocketed, with few turnovers. The improved play put her into the USA Olympic pool. Yes, I realize she is a poor three point shooter, but what will her role be in Atlanta with the arrival of Montgomery? Tiff Hayes at the 2, and Angel at the 3 are big minute eaters, so either Rene or Layshia is coming off the bench with reduced minutes. Rene Montgomery had an excellent stint with the Lynx as Whalen's backup. She always has had talent, but let's not forget that Renee has been dumped by several teams. She could drive coaches crazy. With the Sun, one year she was WNBA 6th woman, but by the end of the following season, Thibeau barely used her. The stop at Minnesota was last chance saloon for Renee (failure there and out of league), and she stayed within the team framework (helped by the presence of so many veterans), Who knows what will happen in Atlanta; another team where someone is likely to be unhappy?


Seems to me Montgomery gets pursued more than dumped. MIN pursued Montgomery in 2015. That worked out well. The Liberty pursued Montgomery for 2016 season, but she stuck with the Lynx. And now ATL pursued Montgomery. Before all that it seemed CON pursued Montgomery as part of the Charles trade.

I think Montgomery will remain in the backup PG role as a better option than Ajavon. Nothing too earth-shattering there. Montgomery lives in ATL and they gave her a multi-year deal.



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
canadaball



Joined: 24 May 2013
Posts: 233



Back to top
PostPosted: 04/17/18 4:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Seems to me Montgomery gets pursued more than dumped. MIN pursued Montgomery in 2015. That worked out well. The Liberty pursued Montgomery for 2016 season, but she stuck with the Lynx. And now ATL pursued Montgomery. Before all that it seemed CON pursued Montgomery as part of the Charles trade.

I think Montgomery will remain in the backup PG role as a better option than Ajavon. Nothing too earth-shattering there. Montgomery lives in ATL and they gave her a multi-year deal.[/quote]

No one denies that Montgomery has talent, but when a player gets traded 3 times in 5 years, and each time, her trade value declines, it is not unfair to conclude that her old teams were not enamored with her play; particularly if one observed how frequently she took inopportune shots, and blew up the offense. As I mentioned, in particular, her final year in Connecticut was atrocious.
Hey, with her talent, it is no surprise that she drew interest (at the right price, of course). I also doubt that Rene has signed with Atlanta for a relatively minor backup role, but admit I am just guessing.


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 48275



Back to top
PostPosted: 04/17/18 4:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The backup role to me has always suited Montgomery the best... the one-time Sixth Man award winner. And she’s not exactly at the Team USA camp invite level like Clarendon.



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 7840



Back to top
PostPosted: 04/17/18 6:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We will see how Clarendon works out as pg now that Angel is back. Angel doesn't always like PG's running around calling plays that don't start with "give Angel the ball.' I Still wonder if Clarendon is going to be around on opening day.



_________________
The fault...lies not not in our stars but in ourselves that we are losers.
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin