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9 Dayton vs 8 Marquette - 3/16 2 PM ET

 
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Who wins
Dayton
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Marquette
100%
 100%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 4

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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 03/13/18 12:12 am    ::: 9 Dayton vs 8 Marquette - 3/16 2 PM ET Reply Reply with quote

First Round - Lexington Region

Louisville, Ky




Last edited by calbearman76 on 03/16/18 4:24 pm; edited 2 times in total
ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/15/18 1:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I didn't understand those folks saying Dayton wouldn't get an at-large bid. They're a 9 seed. Ahead of Minn, Nebraska, OU, UVA, etc. Rutgers and USC didn't even get a bid.

Dayton wasn't even close to being left out. It was pretty obvious they wouldn't be.


calbearman76



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PostPosted: 03/15/18 3:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
I didn't understand those folks saying Dayton wouldn't get an at-large bid. They're a 9 seed. Ahead of Minn, Nebraska, OU, UVA, etc. Rutgers and USC didn't even get a bid.

Dayton wasn't even close to being left out. It was pretty obvious they wouldn't be.


I'll make the argument simple. Dayton beat Virginia at home. Their next best win was either Harvard on a neutral site, Duquesne at home or @ George Washington. They lost to Toledo, St Louis and George Washington. In comparison, USC did not lose to a team that is seeded lower than 7 and they beat both Oregon St (6 seed) and Arizona St (7).

To me USC has a vastly superior resume, as do several other teams. But once the bubble 8 were announced, it was clear that Dayton was in. I disagree; I would have taken any of those teams plus Indiana, Michigan St and TCU over Dayton. And based on what the Committee has done in previous years this is a strange choice. But having said all of this, Dayton is one of the top 64 teams in the country and they have a 30% chance of beating Marquette.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/15/18 6:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's really simple. Fans may not like it, but the RPI is the NCAA'S own metric, and Dayton has been in the 30s and WAY ahead (like 20 or 30 spots ahead) of those other teams. Dayton was never even close to being on the bubble.

What the committee thinks is reflected in Dayton's seed.

BTW, USC was 1-11 vs RPI top 50 teams. They played more top 50 teams but they lost all but one of those games. That doesn't constitute an impressive resume.

Dayton won a decent conference with a 15-1 record. The Committee wasn't going to penalize them for one upset tournament loss aganst a team they had already beaten twice.


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PostPosted: 03/15/18 7:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
It's really simple. Fans may not like it, but the RPI is the NCAA'S own metric, and Dayton has been in the 30s and WAY ahead (like 20 or 30 spots ahead) of those other teams. Dayton was never even close to being on the bubble.

What the committee thinks is reflected in Dayton's seed.

BTW, USC was 1-11 vs RPI top 50 teams. They played more top 50 teams but they lost all but one of those games. That doesn't constitute an impressive resume.

Dayton won a decent conference with a 15-1 record. The Committee wasn't going to penalize them for one upset tournament loss aganst a team they had already beaten twice.


It does if your Oklahoma ...



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 03/15/18 7:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It really isn't that simple. If it were, then Central Michigan (RPI 15) wouldn't be an 11 seed and Buffalo (RPI 22) wouldn't have been one of the last four in. The RPI is used to evaluate the teams you played, not the teams themselves. That is why Arizona St (RPI 54) was given a 7 seed. They had 5 top 50 wins, which the Committee understood to mean that they were a quality team.

Of all the at-large teams there are only 2 that only had 1 top 50 win (California also has 1 top 50 win now, but had 3 based on the RPI as of Friday night when the information for the Committee was most likely compiled.) The other team is Oklahoma, who was the last team in. Oklahoma's RPI is 35, Dayton's is 36. Other metrics are very similar, particularly if you recategorize Oklahoma St to a top 50 team. This would make sense because any team that the Committee makes at-large team is considered by them as one of the top 50. Oklahoma also had two wins over West Virginia, who would also be top 50 based on being in the last 4 out, while Dayton does not.

Dayton is a good team. Based on their record I believe they are around 50. The Committee saw something in their record that Charlie Creme also saw, but most of us that look at this closely each year do not. Whether this was political (the Atlantic 10 Commisioner being on the Selection Committee) or a general sense that the Atlantic 10 is a better conference than they actually were this year (this is probably their worst year ever), it doesn't follow prior precedent. Had Dayton been included in the last 8 teams I don't think there would have been such amazement. And as for their RPI, they were #69 non-conference and only moved up by virtue of beating a bunch of decent (and not so decent) teams, none of whom were anywhere near tournament worthy.


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PostPosted: 03/15/18 9:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Marquette doesn't handily send them flying, I'll be surprised...but obviously Marquette is also a very up and down team. Dayton at least has been consistent. Yeah they went thru the A-10, but the A-10 hasn't exactly impressed this year.

And it also helps to show why the RPI as it is, is a piece of shit that needs to be replaced by something more meaningful.



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PostPosted: 03/15/18 9:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
And it also helps to show why the RPI as it is, is a piece of shit that needs to be replaced by something more meaningful.


Some rating systems don't like Dayton as much as RPI does. Massey has them at #58. Sagarin has them at #59.

Others have them right about where RPI does. HerHoopStats ranks them #35. Real Time RPI's Power Ranking has them #34.



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PostPosted: 03/16/18 6:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
If Marquette doesn't handily send them flying, I'll be surprised...but obviously Marquette is also a very up and down team. Dayton at least has been consistent. Yeah they went thru the A-10, but the A-10 hasn't exactly impressed this year.

And it also helps to show why the RPI as it is, is a piece of shit that needs to be replaced by something more meaningful.


My hope is it's the opposite of last year when Marquette came in to the tournament on a roll and probably a tad over confident and proceeded to fall on their faces in the first round. They seem to do better when not as much is expected of them. So I really hope they can bounce back from that awful outing and win this game.

I'm already disappointed in this season - step back from last season with the same core of players and will be incredibly disappointed if they once again can't win an NCAA Tourney game.

Go Marquette!


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 03/16/18 7:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:

And it also helps to show why the RPI as it is, is a piece of shit that needs to be replaced by something more meaningful.


Yeah, maybe.

But my point has never been that the RPI is reliable or that Dayton is good or deserving. It has ONLY been that given their RPI ranking and their domination in the A10, they were definitely going to be selected for the tournament over middle-of-their conference P5 teams with much lower RPIs. If you recall this started with my comment that GWU had stolen someone's at large bid by winning the A10 tourney, thereby converting the A10 to a 2 bid league. That was always my only point. And flawed or not, the RPI is the NCAA's own metric and they do use it today.

Besides, I've been saying for months that there would be plenty of teams in this shallow year's tournament that would be neither good nor deserving.

Although I do wonder how many people truly believe USC or UVA or Minnesota or Rutgers would have gone 15-1 in the A10. I don't.


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PostPosted: 03/16/18 8:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Amani Wilborn has a good chance of becoming the 4th Marquette junior with 1,000 career points in this game also as she has 992 career points right now. Junior Danielle King is also getting close as she's 33 points away. Allazia Blockton is already 5th on Marquette's all-time scoring list and will blow that record away sometime next season assuming she stays healthy (knock on wood Smile ).


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PostPosted: 03/16/18 1:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Apparently now that I have sling tv it doesn't realize I'm in Milwaukee as I don't have the Marquette game on ESPN2. Thank goodness for the Watch ESPN app. Although with my broadcast being delayed I have the dilemma of whether to follow the stats or not which are ahead of my broadcast.

Not the start I wanted but it's the start I feared Sad


SpaceJunkie



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PostPosted: 03/16/18 1:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Marquette Fan wrote:
Not the start I wanted but it's the start I feared Sad


Marquette isn't going to get Quinnipiac'ed again? 😭


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PostPosted: 03/16/18 1:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The bad news is that Natisha Hiedeman is the only Marquette player who has scored today but the good news is that she's had 4 3's and 13 points total.


Coyotes



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PostPosted: 03/16/18 1:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Marquette Fan wrote:
The bad news is that Natisha Hiedeman is the only Marquette player who has scored today but the good news is that she's had 4 3's and 13 points total.


We might as well call this Hiedeman versus Dayton. Who needs the other four players.


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PostPosted: 03/16/18 1:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Coyotes wrote:
Marquette Fan wrote:
The bad news is that Natisha Hiedeman is the only Marquette player who has scored today but the good news is that she's had 4 3's and 13 points total.


We might as well call this Hiedeman versus Dayton. Who needs the other four players.


She's usually on fire or off - I like the on fire Hiedeman Smile


SpaceJunkie



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PostPosted: 03/16/18 1:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm old enough to remember when Dayton was winning by 8.


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PostPosted: 03/16/18 1:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SpaceJunkie wrote:
I'm old enough to remember when Dayton was winning by 8.


There's still plenty of time for Marquette to blow this lead - they're good at that unfortunately.


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PostPosted: 03/16/18 2:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Congrats to Amani Wilborn who just became the 4th player in Marquette's junior class with 1,000 career points. Danielle King only has 24 points left to become the 5th. According to MU, they are just the fifth school in the country with 4 active 1,000 point scorers.

Marquette leads 69-54 at the end of the third quarter.

Let's finish this one out - Go Marquette!!!


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PostPosted: 03/16/18 3:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Marquette wins 84-65.

Natisha Hiedeman led the way with a career high 32 points. She also set a Marquette record for points in an NCAA Tournament game and for most 3's in an NCAA Tournament game (Cool.

First time they've won an NCAA Tournament game since 2011 - woo hoo!


myrtle



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PostPosted: 03/16/18 3:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

well, at least the two teams who (IMO) least deserved to be in the tourney are now out.



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PostPosted: 03/16/18 3:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
well, at least the two teams who (IMO) least deserved to be in the tourney are now out.


That's fine but I hope people can give Marquette at least a little credit for playing well today.


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PostPosted: 03/16/18 4:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sorry to see the Dayton coach go. Crying or Very sad



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PostPosted: 03/16/18 4:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Sorry to see the Dayton coach go. Crying or Very sad


Gee I wonder why Smile. And I thought maybe someone was actually going to comment on Marquette - silly me Smile


calbearman76



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PostPosted: 03/16/18 5:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm happy that Marquette showed that they aren't the team that got blown out by DePaul in the Big East final. Hopefully they will show well against Louisville.


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PostPosted: 03/16/18 5:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
I'm happy that Marquette showed that they aren't the team that got blown out by DePaul in the Big East final. Hopefully they will show well against Louisville.


You and me both Smile. I doubt they have much of a chance against Louisville but I'd like to see a good performance by them at least. Hiedeman seems to be off the next game after having a hot shooting day but maybe it can continue. Something seemed off with Blockton early after she went to the locker room early and asked to be taken out of the game early also - hopefully she's 100 percent for Sunday.


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