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PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 02/15/18 10:31 am    ::: We are so used to this Reply Reply with quote

That no one even made a thread about a school shooting more deadly than Columbine.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 02/15/18 11:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

until republicans stop sucking off the NRA, nothing will change.

voting them all out will help.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 02/15/18 11:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We've had two or three school shootings per week since the first of the year. The only difference here is the higher body count.

It's nice that the cops were able to arrest the armed and dangerous white man without firing a shot...



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Stonington_QB



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PostPosted: 02/15/18 1:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
until republicans stop sucking off the NRA, nothing will change.

voting them all out will help.

You got it. Electing Democrats will end random acts of violence once and for all.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 02/15/18 1:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Guns don't kill people.

Fascist, racist, neo-nazi, white nationalist Trump supporters kill people.


Howee



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PostPosted: 02/15/18 3:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Guns don't kill people.

Fascist, racist, neo-nazi, white nationalist Trump supporters kill people.

And crazy people. (no, wait....same thing. Never mind)

Your point is most sadly valid, Matty. In our times, I still say the only surprising thing is that this doesn't happen MORE often.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 02/15/18 4:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"The fact that it was the 30th mass shooting so far this year has spurred activists to call on Congress again to revamp the nation's gun control policies. President Trump, a staunch defender of the National Rifle Association, said at a press conference on Thursday that the real issue lawmakers need to tackle is mental health, not guns.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5394229/Florida-high-school-shooting-plunges-city-mourning.html#ixzz57DHJXTTT


tfan



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PostPosted: 02/15/18 4:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Guns don't kill people.

Fascist, racist, neo-nazi, white nationalist Trump supporters kill people.


Which of those do you want to label the Columbine shooters as? And what label are you giving to the guy in Las Vegas?


pilight



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PostPosted: 02/15/18 4:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
"The fact that it was the 30th mass shooting so far this year has spurred activists to call on Congress again to revamp the nation's gun control policies. President Trump, a staunch defender of the National Rifle Association, said at a press conference on Thursday that the real issue lawmakers need to tackle is mental health, not guns.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5394229/Florida-high-school-shooting-plunges-city-mourning.html#ixzz57DHJXTTT


Trump has signed one piece of gun-related legislation, almost a year ago. It made it easier for mentally ill people to get guns.



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 02/15/18 6:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
tfan wrote:
"The fact that it was the 30th mass shooting so far this year has spurred activists to call on Congress again to revamp the nation's gun control policies. President Trump, a staunch defender of the National Rifle Association, said at a press conference on Thursday that the real issue lawmakers need to tackle is mental health, not guns.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5394229/Florida-high-school-shooting-plunges-city-mourning.html#ixzz57DHJXTTT


Trump has signed one piece of gun-related legislation, almost a year ago. It made it easier for mentally ill people to get guns.



The Trump budget cuts tens of millions of funding from mental health.

Fuck him, the NRA, and its dunce supporters, including the CCDL.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 02/15/18 7:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Some of the predictable opinions expressed in a school shooting thread here on Rebkell's make me doubly sorry that another of these threads has had to happen.

Anyone who has ever done anything. ANYTHING. Let's say just cooking a simple breakfast of scrambled eggs, toast, and coffee, knows that YOU, the human being, have to DO certain things, and do them right, in order to get to the desired end result. Crack the eggs. Put bread in the toaster. Put some water on or start your coffee maker. Apply the right amount of heat to everything for the right amount of time, etc.

This is something the jammer can solve. I've got the recipe for this. And God knows ALL that we should be talking about NOW as a society is solutions. We want to do something. We have to take the steps to get to the desired end. We're never going to eliminate every school shooting. That's impossible and except as a rhetorical device (even one is too many, etc.) that is not even something we should be talking about.

So here it is. How hot do you make the pan when cooking scrambled eggs and how long to you cook the eggs? You don't turn the heat up all the way and pre-heat a non-stick pan for an hour. lol. Then 'cook' the eggs for another hour.

This problem of mass body counts is going to continue. It is a problem that revolves around a simple one-word concept. Capacity. An assault rifle has a capacity to kill that a handgun does not. It fires incredibly destructive high velocity military rounds out of an 18 or so inch long barrel which makes missing a moving target much harder to do. And it allows a shooter to rapidly fire scores of rounds quickly and to reload very quickly. It gives one person the capacity to kill many persons very quickly and it makes it very difficult for someone on the ground, a hero, to stop a shooter who would alternatively be struggling to hit scrambling victims with a handgun and much more susceptible to being stopped by one of the many people he would not so easily be incapacitating with an assault rifle. This kind of weaponry in a crowd of school kids, church goers, from a distance, it enables a suppression of resistance in a way that a hand gun cannot.

So, as a country, we have to begin the process of taking assault weapons from out of the hands of the general public. And as impossible as that sounds? lol. Guess what? We're going to get there. I can't predict the future in some metaphysical way but I can still predict the future any fucking way. We WILL be taking these weapons away from the public at large in the not-to-distant future. It might be five years or it might be 25 years, but we will do it, because, these mass killings resulting from the unique capabilities of these weapons will continue, to the point that EVEN the most die-hard proponents of lax gun control will find themselves in an untenable and indefensible position in the face of a public outcry of a finally sufficiently enlightened, in the most terrible ways, American public.

So assault weapons are the first front in the war that will be waged to stop these massacres. The first impediment to getting there is inherent in this short thread already. Lack of focus and political blaming. Remember the scene in some movie where in a cacophony of arguing voices someone just starts yelling, shut up, SHUT UP!!, etc. Everyone who really wants to stop this has to themselves stop blaming the NRA, Republicans, Trump, stupid Americans, all of that. Put removing assault weapons in a VACUUM. All by itself. Totally removed from any hint of any other inevitably distracting and defusing area of debate or argument. Forget it all and focus only on building a public demand and outcry for the total elimination of assault weapons from public availability.

Yes the usual subjects will BE the ones pushing back on an effort such as this. We already know that. But this IS going to happen, eventually. And when it does, it will have happened because a formed consensus behind a national outcry will HAVE occurred. Past tense. We will get to the point where that consensus WILL have already happened. The harder and earlier this society starts to focus on this particular outcome the sooner that will happen and that many more children will be saved.

So the second thing we need to know and to focus on is this. There will be more of these mass shootings. Well, wait a minute. If we can look at past recent history and a calendar of the next five years and predict that x-number of Americans (let's focus on school shootings) x-number of school children will die in mass school shootings... project it just that easily and predict without fail that AR-15s will be used in those shootings... then we SHOULD proceed with the job of PREVENTING those shootings and not, as we have been, accepting and ALLOWING them to continue. That means tasks forces everywhere, even if it's just one person in one office, maybe in every school or district, scaled as needed of course, to flag potential shooters, such as this incredibly red-flag waving example of a potential shooter turning into an eventual shooter in Parkland, Florida.

Apprehend them when they exhibit the tell-tale signs. Investigate what weapons they have and remove them. Put an ankle monitor on them. Spend the money and do whatever it takes. Make the further possession of any form of weaponry punishable by a long term prison sentence. Etc. Remove them from society at all costs, if that is what it takes. Believe me, these kinds of aggressive responses will ultimately suppress behaviors. Even nutcases learn the parameters of what society will accept from them. Society accepted a LOT from this guy. Exactly everything he did up until the time he opened fire.

Put more and better security measures in place in schools. You can't walk around the halls of major hospitals without an ID card hanging on a lanyard or a sticky on your chest. Children are being killed. Put up a desk and security guards and issue IDs to students and teachers and everyone who has business on campus and clear everyone else who needs to come into the school or show themselves on school grounds, etc. Is this foolproof in every situation? No. What you're aiming for is a collection of actions that make what happened yesterday far more difficult to accomplish and thus far less likely to happen or to be as devastating when something does slip through the cracks and does happen.

So again. The public voice should be united that assault weapons must go and as soon as we become a mostly unified society demanding that (something that will eventually happen anyway) the sooner we will remove these extremely potent and destructive weapons from the hands of people like this shooter.

But schools and public officials should be laser focused on creating better protections around schools and in taking EVERY single potential shooter threat with deadly seriousness and with new and aggressive tactics for identifying and removing those people from our midst. Whatever it takes.


Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/15/18 9:25 pm    ::: Re: We are so used to this Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9QFMPVb_i3I" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QFMPVb_i3I



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/15/18 10:37 pm    ::: Re: We are so used to this Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sopTUWWOEX4" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sopTUWWOEX4



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 02/16/18 4:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As always in these circumstances there are several issues that combine to cause these horrible events. The problem we have is that those that want to protect their special interest to shift the blame away from their part of the problem.

There will always be violence. It happens in the US and it happens everywhere else in the world. The difference is that we don't control ownership of guns, whether it is semiautomatic weapons that can easily be turned into automatic weapons, oversized ammunition magazines, so our violence committed outside of war (or coordinated terrorist attacks) reaches higher levels than in other countries. There is an easy fix. Right now the federal government is barred from even studying the effects of gun control on the health of our country. Reasonable gun controls will not stop every event, but it will limit the worst of them.

There will always be mental health problems. Indeed mental health will likely become an even greater problem in coming generations as continued advancements in technology will create more individuals who do not have a productive role in society. This is especially difficult for young men (age 16-30) who are the most likely to commit these vile acts. And yet our society has been reducing mental health funding, and accessing of mental health services is still stigmatized within many groups.

We use to throw certain people with mental health problems into horrible institutions, but over time our societal sensibilities did not allow for that kind of treatment. We went to more outpatient models, but over time budget cuts and poor case management, including people not staying on medications, caused significant problems. More and more mental health patients went in and out of jails or short term commitments just to get back on medications but could not become productive. This is an expensive problem to solve, but the recent tax cut assures that we won't be able to implement many necessary changes.

This just comes down to what we are willing to put accept. I can accept some reasonable controls on guns in exchange for greater safety in schools and society in general. I can accept higher taxes in exchange for better treatment of mental health, understanding that neither of these steps will do away with all violence. But we need to stop taking the position that the problem is too complex so we can't do anything.


Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/16/18 5:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Alleged Florida shooter member of school rifle team given NRA grant: report

Quote:
The 19-year-old accused of killing 17 people at a Florida high school Wednesday was reportedly a member of the school’s marksmanship team, which received grants from the National Rifle Association (NRA).

The Associated Press reports Nikolas Cruz, the alleged gunman in the deadly mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, was a member of the marksmanship team, which was part of the school’s Army Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps.

Cruz was reportedly wearing a shirt with the JROTC logo when he was arrested following the shooting.

Former JROTC cadet Aaron Diener told the AP that Cruz was a member of the team and that he gave him a ride to a shooting competition where they competed together in 2016.

“He was a very good shot,” Diener said. “He had an AR-15 he talked about, and pistols.”


http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/374296-alleged-florida-shooter-member-of-school-rifle-team-given-grant?__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 02/16/18 8:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So a bazillion people knew he had a troubled past and an assault rifle, while the family that took him in was clueless that he was disturbed, and the FBI apparently didn't take the warnings they received seriously? There are a lot of things wrong here that just banning assault weapons won't fix, although I do agree that's necessary.


Shades



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PostPosted: 02/18/18 11:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZxD3o-9H1lY" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 02/18/18 12:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think it would be more on point to scream at Congress to pass S.2095 than to shriek at Trump, or better yet, write, call, and Email your Congressperson. These soundbites don't accomplish much.


calbearman76



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PostPosted: 02/18/18 3:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
I think it would be more on point to scream at Congress to pass S.2095 than to shriek at Trump, or better yet, write, call, and Email your Congressperson. These soundbites don't accomplish much.


I'm not sure I agree. It is important for you and I to call our Congressmen, but her comment may well not have been aired if she hadn't made it personal with Trump. If she had held a sign about the bill as well perhaps that would have been more effective, but as a high school student she laid the predicate for all of us to take up the banner of getting a bill passed.

I just prefer she would have had more normal hair so she wouldn't be dismissed by some as a radical.


Shades



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PostPosted: 02/18/18 3:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's radical to have short hair? You might want to tip-toe for the sidelines.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/18/18 7:15 pm    ::: Re: We are so used to this Reply Reply with quote




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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 02/19/18 10:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Go kids!



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 02/19/18 8:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
It's radical to have short hair? You might want to tip-toe for the sidelines.


No tip-toeing here. I have no problem whatsoever with the look. But is it something that some people may not construe as the All American girl look. And when you are trying to win over the hearts and minds of the masses optics matter. Show me a female news anchor with a crew cut (other than one doing so specifically in support of a cancer patient.) Her look may serve to sway a few less people than might have otherwise been the case, and I have already seen some conservatives try to ridicule her message by ridiculing her. Sad but true.


stever



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PostPosted: 02/19/18 8:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This event was going to be held at a golf course about a mile down the road from me:


...high school football "boosters", school had nothing to do with it.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2018/02/18/south-lyon-boosters-cancel-ar-15-raffle/349240002/



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Luuuc



Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: 02/20/18 2:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So they decided to cancel the whole thing rather than endure the horrors of holding the event without the guns? Hmmm.
On the plus side I just learned something new as a result of googling "what is a Chinese raffle"



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/20/18 9:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Florida survivors, lawmakers on collision course over guns

Quote:
Meanwhile at the Florida Statehouse, a Democratic representative asked for a procedural move that would have allowed the Republican-controlled House to consider a ban on large-capacity magazines and assault-style rifles such as the AR-15 that was wielded by the suspect, Nickolas Cruz.

The bill had been assigned to three committees but was not scheduled for a hearing. The House quickly nixed the Democratic motion. The vote broke down along party lines, and Republicans criticized Democrats for forcing the vote.

Because the committees will not meet again before the legislative session ends March 9, the move essentially extinguishes hope that lawmakers would vote on any sweeping measures to restrict assault rifles, although other proposals could still be considered.

“No one in the world with the slightest little hint of a soul isn’t moved by this tragedy,” Republican strategist Rick Wilson said. “The discussion has to be a longer, bigger and broader discussion.”

Lizzie Eaton, a junior at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, spent the day lobbying senators of both parties and concluded that lawmakers were “just not listening to us.”

The vote was “heartbreaking,” she said. “But we’re not going to stop.”


https://apnews.com/421d0445626345209d61988899fef210/Florida-survivors,-lawmakers-on-collision-course-over-guns?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP&__twitter_impression=true



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/20/18 9:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 02/20/18 9:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Must have been a disappointing moment for the gun manufacturers too.
They always seem to see a nice spike in sales everyone at even the mention of restrictions being tightened.
Come on, Trump. How about looking after businesses. Just tweet that you are gonna crack down in a YUGE way on gun ownership. Sales will skyrocket, but then you can just take no actual action, same as with all the other plans you had. It's win-win.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/21/18 10:06 pm    ::: Re: We are so used to this Reply Reply with quote


Congresswoman claims most mass shooters are Democrats

Quote:
"It's interesting that so many of these people that commit the mass murders end up being Democrats," Tenney said. "But the media doesn't talk about that."


Quote:
"I am fed up with the media and liberals attempting to politicize tragedies and demonize law-abiding gun owners and conservative Americans every time there is a horrible tragedy," Tenney said in the statement. "While we know the perpetrators of these atrocities have a wide variety of political views, my comments are in response to a question about the failure to prosecute illegal gun crime. I will continue to stand up for law-abiding citizens who are smeared by anti-gun liberal elitists."


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/congresswoman-claims-most-mass-shooters-are-democrats/ar-BBJqSIr?li=BBnb7Kz



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Shades



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PostPosted: 02/22/18 3:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/4AtOU0dDXv8" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/22/18 12:50 pm    ::: Re: We are so used to this Reply Reply with quote


NRA head lashes out at gun control advocates: 'They hate individual freedom'

Quote:
Wayne LaPierre, the head of the NRA, broke his silence a week after the Florida school shooting with an unrepentant defence of gun rights and an aggressive attack on political elites who “hate individual freedom”.

LaPierre used his address to the conservative conference CPAC to hit out at anti-gun campaigners, who, led by young survivors of the shooting, have attempted to make political headway in the last week.

“They fantasise about more laws stopping what other laws have failed to stop,” the National Rifle Association executive vice-president said. “So many existing laws were ignored.”


Quote:
Pushing the same agenda on school security as Donald Trump, he claimed schools were “wide open targets”.

“Evil walks among us and God help us if we don’t protect our schools,” he said.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nra-head-lashes-out-at-gun-control-advocates-they-hate-individual-freedom/ar-BBJsOAR?ocid=mailsignout



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Stonington_QB



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PostPosted: 02/22/18 2:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that some people are blaming all of the people who had nothing to do with this shooting, while at the same time giving the FBI a pass on gross negligence in the process.

I'm also seeing all this handwringing over expanded background checks. Well that bill has been on the Senate's desk since late last year (the fix NICS bill). So why no action on the bill? It passed the House already, what's the problem?


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 02/22/18 3:01 pm    ::: Re: We are so used to this Reply Reply with quote

Genero36 wrote:

NRA head lashes out at gun control advocates: 'They hate individual freedom'

Quote:
Wayne LaPierre, the head of the NRA, broke his silence a week after the Florida school shooting with an unrepentant defence of gun rights and an aggressive attack on political elites who “hate individual freedom”.

LaPierre used his address to the conservative conference CPAC to hit out at anti-gun campaigners, who, led by young survivors of the shooting, have attempted to make political headway in the last week.

“They fantasise about more laws stopping what other laws have failed to stop,” the National Rifle Association executive vice-president said. “So many existing laws were ignored.”


Quote:
Pushing the same agenda on school security as Donald Trump, he claimed schools were “wide open targets”.

“Evil walks among us and God help us if we don’t protect our schools,” he said.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nra-head-lashes-out-at-gun-control-advocates-they-hate-individual-freedom/ar-BBJsOAR?ocid=mailsignout


This guy is so deranged that it is hard to believe he can command a national audience. Which today he has. Sad. So very sad.


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PostPosted: 02/22/18 4:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Trump empathy flash cards




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Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/22/18 9:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/FyirlX3tra8" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyirlX3tra8



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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 02/22/18 9:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When I see comments like that, which are just not even on a wavelength I can comprehend, I can't help thinking that there's a lot of projection involved on her/their part. Like they are coming at the issue from a totally different place.
I've got no doubt that news network owners like there to be drama in the world, but there are a lot of leaps between that, and having a random person whose job it is to report the news or even comment on it, feel happy that innocent people got killed just so there is something to talk about today. As if otherwise there would be dead air with anchors twiddling their thumbs waiting to lose their now-pointless jobs.
I guess that is why the students are so passionate about it as well? They enjoy being relevant this week, and students in other states are just hoping they'll be next!?



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PostPosted: 02/22/18 9:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
When I see comments like that, which are just not even on a wavelength I can comprehend, I can't help thinking that there's a lot of projection involved on her/their part. Like they are coming at the issue from a totally different place.
I've got no doubt that news network owners like there to be drama in the world, but there are a lot of leaps between that, and having a random person whose job it is to report the news or even comment on it, feel happy that innocent people got killed just so there is something to talk about today. As if otherwise there would be dead air with anchors twiddling their thumbs waiting to lose their now-pointless jobs.
I guess that is why the students are so passionate about it as well? They enjoy being relevant this week, and students in other states are just hoping they'll be next!?

Obviously the police like them too. I mean they get to break out their shiny big weapons, use all their SWAT training, and have something major to do that gets them all on television!

What a moron.



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PostPosted: 02/22/18 9:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
When I see comments like that, which are just not even on a wavelength I can comprehend, I can't help thinking that there's a lot of projection involved on her/their part. Like they are coming at the issue from a totally different place.


Dana Loesch and a lot of people in America are coming at this and many other issues from a place where they are well compensated for taking the positions they take and, in her case, putting a lovely face on something that has become really entirely too problematic for American society. But it's not stopping her or them because I'm sure her stock went way up after last night. I haven't listened to this clip and kind of would rather not. But I did catch some of the NRA president La Pierre's speech today. Her saying the media loves a mass shooting is, I'm sorry, not something I'm inclined to totally dismiss as crazy rhetoric. She's a smart woman and too good of a spokesperson generally for her cause. So I'm not surprised she's going there. And there is a there there.

But the other guy is simply as deranged a human being who has ever been put in front of a microphone in America. He's crazy. Dangerous. I think, because of the power the NRA wields, or holds, over our government, it's important that his remarks today be broadcast across the news networks, unlike giving a similar profile and exposure to a David Duke, but he's no better than a David Duke, and generally, we don't give this kind of mass exposure to people on that level. Plus this guy is straight away bonkers. You can see it in his body language and facial expressions. He's coming out of his skin and his brain is squirming like a toad. Just sayin'.


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PostPosted: 02/23/18 9:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

trump says schools are dangerous places because they're gun-free.

Shocked

is it possible to be immobilized by inanity? yes.



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PostPosted: 02/23/18 12:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
trump says schools are dangerous places because they're gun-free.

Shocked

is it possible to be immobilized by inanity? yes.


He's pretty much always the wrong guy for the job of being president. But this here has been on another level.

I've got a lot of rough edges. Let's say if I were a teacher that I would be able to convince the district that I'm one of those teachers who would or should be armed. Now I'm there to teach. To be inspiring and interesting to young people and to be that on an interactive level.

So suddenly one day there's a person in the hallway with an AR-15. As I said, I've got a lot of rough edges. But the idea that you could depend on ME, to switch gears from inspiring teacher to getting out in that hall and attempting to take down a mass shooter... I find that to be a pretty weak plan.

Even if I did go out and confront the shooter, I would be saying to myself something like, "Jesus, who's fucking idea of a plan was this?"

Yeah, a some teachers are former military and even law enforcement. But realistically, how many is that?

That THIS is your plan to address this horrific problem, armed teachers, basically saying, we'll deal with this by having a fucking shoot out? Betwixt a teacher with a concealable (we hope) handgun and a guy with an assault rifle? Wow. Plus just thinking about what a windfall this would be for the gun industry. It would be like a dream come true. They're selling arms to both sides now in this war zone that is our public school system.

Trump has been unacceptable to many from the moment he came down the escalator. He's been a big disappointment to many others. And he's been infuriating to almost anyone with a brain almost every day since taking office. But in so many ways, just as a problem matched up with a need for leadership on a solution, this may be the biggest failure of that leadership ever.

However, it is so easy to blame Trump and forget Sandy Hook and the Pulse nightclub and ALL the other many moments and opportunities in prior administrations that have passed by the wayside on what I believe is an inevitable march toward some really restrictive gun legislation that actually does curtail these shootings. It feels different right now but the only thing that is different is that there's a generation of school kids who are able to make a better case for themselves and their position of just wanting to be able to go to school without getting shot.

But I'm just literally shaking my head at the idea that armed teachers is an actual idea. We're hearing now of the armed security guard who chose to stay outside and not confront the shooter here in Parkland. That's what he was there to do. He was a good guy with a gun. And he passed on the opportunity to be a hero. Of course, he's being destroyed in the media by professional journalists, but the truth is, how many of us REALLY would dependably rush into a building to taken on a guy with an AR-15? And our solution is teachers with guns. lol.

Look. Someone do the research. How many of these mass shootings produced stories or allegations that the police took FAR too long to go in and confront the shooter or shooters? A shootout is not a solution.


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PostPosted: 02/23/18 12:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

don't even get me started on his suggestion that we give those select teachers "a little bit of a bonus" for being an on-call defender of hundreds of school kids. for almost no money at all, he said (yes, he really said it), we've got ourselves a solution. and hey - how nice for those already underpaid teachers to get a little bit (just a little bit) of a bonus, like this would be just a little something extra they'll do.

it's time to take all these guys down. every last one of 'em in congress who is enabling this twisted mofo. those kids who walked out of class, who refused to go back to school, who attended that town hall . . . it does feel different now, and they give me hope that all the mitch mcconnells and paul ryans - all of that ilk - are a dead breed.



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PostPosted: 02/23/18 12:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Trump calls for arming many teachers, more guards at schools

Quote:
Trump said designating schools as "gun-free zones" puts students in "far more danger." He reiterated his push for "gun-adept teachers and coaches" to be able to carry concealed firearms and said it was "time to make our schools a much harder target for attackers — we don't want them in our schools."

If a teacher had been carrying a concealed firearm at the Florida school, "the teacher would have shot the hell out of him before he knew what happened," Trump said.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-calls-for-arming-many-teachers-more-guards-at-schools/ar-BBJuJ65?li=BBnb7Kz



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PostPosted: 02/23/18 1:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
don't even get me started on his suggestion that we give those select teachers "a little bit of a bonus" for being an on-call defender of hundreds of school kids. .


Oh yeah, I knew I was forgetting something. The fat cat with a cigar hanging out of his mouth thinking he can simply throw a little money at any problem and some desperate person will just handle it for him.

Without falling into the endless trap of saying Trump isn't the person for the job, I would just say that these ideas should be seen as non-starters in coming up with adequate and effective solutions to this problem. Previous administrations couldn't make a dent here, and I'm not a person to reward them for just being on the right side of the debate. They were unfocused and weak. Is that better than daft? I don't think so.

This generation of school kids are going to grow up and vote around this issue. They're smart and are proposing multiple strategies. One that really matters is taking assault weapons out of the hands of private citizens. We just had a kid busted here who made an offhand threat of shooting up his school. They took it seriously and raided his house. What they found was incredible. Two AR-15s and *80* extended larger capacity magazines and about 2000 rounds of ammunition. The stuff belonged to the kid's older brother but it was unsecured and the kid had access to it.

THIS is what we''re dealing with when we allow for this capacity for destruction to be permissible in the hands of private citizens. You're at the mercy of whatever bad mojo exists in every little household across America. Sloppy and careless with access to the assault weaponry? We've seen this before and how it ends. This is the battle right there. An assault weapons ban.


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PostPosted: 02/23/18 2:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:


Without falling into the endless trap of saying Trump isn't the person for the job, I would just say that these ideas should be seen as non-starters in coming up with adequate and effective solutions to this problem.

You would think that when your idea to "fix" the problem is straight out of a four year old Onion article you might second guess your thought process...

https://www.theonion.com/nra-calls-for-teachers-to-keep-loaded-gun-pointed-at-cl-1819575763



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PostPosted: 02/23/18 6:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:


Without falling into the endless trap of saying Trump isn't the person for the job, I would just say that these ideas should be seen as non-starters in coming up with adequate and effective solutions to this problem.

You would think that when your idea to "fix" the problem is straight out of a four year old Onion article you might second guess your thought process...

https://www.theonion.com/nra-calls-for-teachers-to-keep-loaded-gun-pointed-at-cl-1819575763


Smith & Lesson, indeed.

If a police chief (Tacoma, WA) can go off the deep end and commit murder/suicide, sooner or later some of our stressed out underpaid teachers would do the same thing. We all can think of classmates who would have never made it to commencement if their teachers were locked and loaded.



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PostPosted: 02/23/18 7:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yep. There’s that, too. I wouldn’t have been able to sleep through half the classes I did had I known the teachers were armed.


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PostPosted: 02/23/18 9:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As someone who works with teenagers, I can't say enough about how well these kids are handling this situation. It's incredible.



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PostPosted: 02/23/18 9:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
. . . it does feel different now, and they give me hope that all the mitch mcconnells and paul ryans - all of that ilk - are a dead breed.

Yes. I am really optimistic that we've finally reached this 'critical mass' stage of unrest and refusal-to-forget. These kids are empowered in ways no other generation has been before, if we just think of social media alone.

"....and a child shall lead them": not totally analogous to Isaiah's reference, but....I still like the concept of how "a child" is implied as the leader of a New Order.

(....and I don't mean "One Who ACTS Like a Petulant Child", LOL!)



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PostPosted: 02/23/18 9:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/47C-s0FMXlI" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>



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PostPosted: 02/23/18 11:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"I wish we had a handful of reporters that talked to politicians the way these kids do"

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Lo52BObqCds" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/4AtOU0dDXv8" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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