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NY Liberty to play in Westchester
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Lib Fan



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PostPosted: 03/05/18 8:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jmvcity wrote:
Were a bunch requesting refunds at the event?


I have no idea



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Nerd2



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PostPosted: 03/05/18 9:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As a person who has has an NFL and NBA team moved away and almost lost my WNBA team, I think the Liberty fans have a real opportunity here. Unlike San Antonio, you still have a team. You also know that the ownership is going to change. Whoever buys the team is going to want it and not treat it as a liability. The question becomes whether whoever buys it thinks it has a future in NYC or not. Hopefully at least some games will get 2000+ so the new owner might feel it's worth the risk to find a location that will allow the team to stay in the area.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 03/06/18 10:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
As a person who has has an NFL and NBA team moved away and almost lost my WNBA team, I think the Liberty fans have a real opportunity here. Unlike San Antonio, you still have a team. You also know that the ownership is going to change. Whoever buys the team is going to want it and not treat it as a liability. The question becomes whether whoever buys it thinks it has a future in NYC or not. Hopefully at least some games will get 2000+ so the new owner might feel it's worth the risk to find a location that will allow the team to stay in the area.


I don't agree. Consider, for example, the Liberty's average home attendance for 2017. Compare that with the pathetic average home attendance for 2018 for the many games in White Plains, even if they all sell out. Would that mean that so many thousands of Liberty fans have lost interest in the team? No, it'll simply mean that White Plains is a lousy arena and location. Anyone with the $$$ to buy the franchise from Hideous Lord Jimmy will understand this.



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PostPosted: 03/06/18 10:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

our best case scenario for 2019 would be for someone to buy the team and move them to Brooklyn.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 03/06/18 10:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's still astounding to me that the W doesn't have by-laws specifying capacity for arenas

The NBA constitution gives the commissioner authority "to establish minimum standards for the design, construction, and operation of NBA-quality arenas in areas related to the production and marketing of NBA basketball games and events; to establish minimum standards for the conditions under which NBA basketball games and events are conducted, and to regulate the in-arena presentation of those games and events"

http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/files/221035054-nba-constitution-and-by-laws.pdf



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 03/06/18 10:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
our best case scenario for 2019 would be for someone to buy the team and move them to Brooklyn.


I fully agree. And whether the Liberty sell out in White Plains or don't won't in any meaningful way suggest how the team will draw in Brooklyn.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 03/06/18 10:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
toad455 wrote:
our best case scenario for 2019 would be for someone to buy the team and move them to Brooklyn.


I fully agree. And whether the Liberty sell out in White Plains or don't won't in any meaningful way suggest how the team will draw in Brooklyn.


getting 2k in Westchester vs. getting even 7k(low balling) in Brooklyn is better.



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Lib Fan



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PostPosted: 03/07/18 7:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

so am I the only REAL STH that posts on Rebkell ?



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Queenie



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PostPosted: 03/08/18 9:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lib Fan wrote:
so am I the only REAL STH that posts on Rebkell ?


Once that refund I asked for on Sunday finally comes through, I guess you will be, since I have to drop down to a partial plan and bootleg it to boot.



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Ay Mate



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PostPosted: 03/08/18 11:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hopefully after 2018, the Golden State Warriors Buy the team and move them to California.


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PostPosted: 03/08/18 11:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's sad that it's come to this in NYC ...

As for the Warriors, Joe Lacob reiterated today that he wants a WNBA team in the Bay Area. But he also said that they've been working on building the new arena for eight years, and it's been one of the complex tasks he's ever encountered in his business career.

Presumably, now that construction has started, it should be a smoother process, but San Francisco politics are notoriously convoluted, and you just never know ...



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Lib Fan



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PostPosted: 03/08/18 12:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
Hopefully after 2018, the Golden State Warriors Buy the team and move them to California.


Not what any Liberty Fan would ever hope for !



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PostPosted: 03/08/18 6:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Can anyone indicate how the sightlines seemed for the $29 seats?



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PostPosted: 03/08/18 7:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Can anyone indicate how the sightlines seemed for the $29 seats?


I would say the sight lines from the $29 seats are not good...also there is an overhang problem from the baloney



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 03/08/18 8:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lib Fan wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Can anyone indicate how the sightlines seemed for the $29 seats?


I would say the sight lines from the $29 seats are not good...also there is an overhang problem from the baloney


Thanks for the info. That sounds pretty terrible. Maybe I’ll just wait for single seats to come out and get them in the balcony for each game.

It’s really sad. I know it’s about economics but the Liberty have represented NY and MSG so well on and off the court. They (and the fans) deserve better.



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Nerd2



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PostPosted: 03/08/18 8:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lib Fan wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Can anyone indicate how the sightlines seemed for the $29 seats?


I would say the sight lines from the $29 seats are not good...also there is an overhang problem from the baloney


A little rye bread and mustard and you should be able to clear that problem right up! Razz


Luuuc



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PostPosted: 03/08/18 8:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lib Fan wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Can anyone indicate how the sightlines seemed for the $29 seats?


I would say the sight lines from the $29 seats are not good...also there is an overhang problem from the baloney

That sounds uncomfortable



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Lib Fan



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PostPosted: 03/08/18 8:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Lib Fan wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Can anyone indicate how the sightlines seemed for the $29 seats?


I would say the sight lines from the $29 seats are not good...also there is an overhang problem from the baloney

That sounds uncomfortable


It is so had to move to the best of the $39.00 seats...
Its not MSG and no more that a college arena ...but at least we have a team



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tfan



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PostPosted: 03/08/18 10:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Crazy that in previous discussions about where to play, St John's 5,602 seat arena was dismissed as too small, and then the Liberty end up in a place much smaller - outside the city.


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PostPosted: 03/08/18 10:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Crazy that in previous discussions about where to play, St John's 5,602 seat arena was dismissed as too small, and then the Liberty end up in a place much smaller - outside the city.


Isn't St. John's also bleacher seating though?


Queenie



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PostPosted: 03/08/18 10:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
tfan wrote:
Crazy that in previous discussions about where to play, St John's 5,602 seat arena was dismissed as too small, and then the Liberty end up in a place much smaller - outside the city.


Isn't St. John's also bleacher seating though?


Mostly. The lower deck behind the benches has chairback seating, and there's a row of chairs in the last row of the lower deck opposite the benches, but the rest of the place- lower deck opposite the benches and sidelines, and upper two decks- has bleachers. The ones in the lower deck are traditional bleachers, while the upper decks have sort of cup-shaped seats with no backs.

I'd say the Liberty and St. John's could come to an arrangement to convert the arena to all chairback seating, but then my STJ season tickets would probably go through the roof, so *shrug emoji*.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 03/08/18 11:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
tfan wrote:
Crazy that in previous discussions about where to play, St John's 5,602 seat arena was dismissed as too small, and then the Liberty end up in a place much smaller - outside the city.


Isn't St. John's also bleacher seating though?


Looks like the mid and upper sections are all bleachers but one side of the lower section is not. That might be why they didn't go there, rather than the "not near public transportation" that someone told Queenie. But rent, or willingness to rent, may have also been a/the reason.



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PostPosted: 03/08/18 11:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Alright, I've tried my best to put lipstick on this pig, but I give up. Let's summarize what has happened so far:

1) The team moves to an area that will add an hour or more to most fans' travel time. Double that for a roundtrip.

2) Even if every one of the roughly 8,000 real fans per game (not the official 9,800) wanted to follow the Liberty to WCC, there are only 2,300 seats. In addition, it sounds like half of those seats have poor sightlines so functionally it's more like 1,000+. Essentially, management is telling 7,000 fans to stay home.

3) So far, it appears that management has made little effort to improve the team on the court.

4) For the privilege of a diminished experience, longer travel, and seeming indifference to adding talent, the franchise is increasing ticket prices.

Seriously, can management try harder to alienate the fanbase? Maybe they should add protruding nails to each seat and bring in elephants to shit on the floor before each game. If they don't want live fans, then just do away with WCC and play at the practice facility. You are no longer a franchise where live fans matter. Just admit that you're a made for TV event. Do away with the arena, fire your sales staff, cut your operations crew to the bone, and you should do fine living off the TV money. Just don't waste everybody's time pretending that you're a real sports franchise.



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PostPosted: 03/09/18 12:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Alright, I've tried my best to put lipstick on this pig, but I give up. Let's summarize what has happened so far:

1) The team moves to an area that will add an hour or more to most fans' travel time. Double that for a roundtrip.

2) Even if every one of the roughly 8,000 real fans per game (not the official 9,800) wanted to follow the Liberty to WCC, there are only 2,300 seats. In addition, it sounds like half of those seats have poor sightlines so functionally it's more like 1,000+. Essentially, management is telling 7,000 fans to stay home.

3) So far, it appears that management has made little effort to improve the team on the court.

4) For the privilege of a diminished experience, longer travel, and seeming indifference to adding talent, the franchise is increasing ticket prices.

Seriously, can management try harder to alienate the fanbase? Maybe they should add protruding nails to each seat and bring in elephants to shit on the floor before each game. If they don't want live fans, then just do away with WCC and play at the practice facility. You are no longer a franchise where live fans matter. Just admit that you're a made for TV event. Do away with the arena, fire your sales staff, cut your operations crew to the bone, and you should do fine living off the TV money. Just don't waste everybody's time pretending that you're a real sports franchise.


Well said, all of it.



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libertycrazy97



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PostPosted: 03/09/18 1:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I went to the event Sunday and I was not thrilled. For me the commute is a break for me. I did the travel to Newark from Westchester and it was a pain in the butt. So for me I welcome the break. I know this doesn’t work for all and I am very sorry. I rather have MSG with a loud, passionate crowd. Unfortunately if they moved to Newark I wouldn’t have renewed my seats after 18 years. I just can’t do the commute, the same for queens/Brooklyn or Nassau. When it comes down to it unless it’s MSG, the team is loosing fans Sad

So as for Sunday. I was NOT happy at all. First my seat went from 27 to 29 and for a horrible view. The balcony over hang is horrible, no leg room and if someone Tallis in front of you it will kill your view. We let it be known that we didn’t like the view and wanted to be in the balcony. They took us up there and the view is a million times better. So we told The reps that’s were we want to sit and they need to suggest it to the higher ups. So for the time being we had to pick a seat to keep our subscription because there was no guarantee the balcony would open up to subscribers. On top of that there is no 15% discount that we signed up for when we did early renewal last year. And if you had a balance on your account it’s going to come out the next three months.


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PostPosted: 03/09/18 1:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:

3) So far, it appears that management has made little effort to improve the team on the court.


This is the only part that I think is not quite true. I know they worked free agency and I can't imagine that any free agent with multiple offers would have chosen them. In addition to the venue changing and probably cost cuts, there is a possible chance that they'd move next year depending on who bought them.

The rest is very sad and frustrating. Between you San Antonio, the WNBA has screwed a bunch of loyal fans this year.


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PostPosted: 03/09/18 2:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

libertycrazy97 wrote:
So as for Sunday. I was NOT happy at all. First my seat went from 27 to 29 and for a horrible view. The balcony over hang is horrible, no leg room and if someone Tallis in front of you it will kill your view. We let it be known that we didn’t like the view and wanted to be in the balcony. They took us up there and the view is a million times better. So we told The reps that’s were we want to sit and they need to suggest it to the higher ups. So for the time being we had to pick a seat to keep our subscription because there was no guarantee the balcony would open up to subscribers. On top of that there is no 15% discount that we signed up for when we did early renewal last year. And if you had a balance on your account it’s going to come out the next three months.

The problem is that unless they've literally stopped giving any single shits whatsoever, they have to try to fill those lower seats first because those are the ones front and center on TV. If they let all of you sign up for those balcony seats and then can't fill the ones lower down, that's going to look awful. A 2,300-seat arena and they can't even put people in the fifth row? So I kind of understand them not making those seats available to season ticket purchasers initially. I totally understand you guys being pissed off about it - this whole thing's a complete shambles - but it makes some sense from the other side.



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PostPosted: 03/09/18 10:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
The problem is that unless they've literally stopped giving any single shits whatsoever, they have to try to fill those lower seats first because those are the ones front and center on TV. If they let all of you sign up for those balcony seats and then can't fill the ones lower down, that's going to look awful. A 2,300-seat arena and they can't even put people in the fifth row? So I kind of understand them not making those seats available to season ticket purchasers initially. I totally understand you guys being pissed off about it - this whole thing's a complete shambles - but it makes some sense from the other side.


Horribly, what Richyyy is saying here seems to make sense. And in this unique way the Westchester County Center is worse for Liberty fans than a small college gym where the seats you'd assume to be the best genuinely are. What a fiasco.



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PostPosted: 03/09/18 12:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

No problem. Just invite 1000 kids from local schools to fill those awful seats.



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PostPosted: 03/09/18 12:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
No problem. Just invite 1000 kids from local schools to fill those awful seats.


For night games, though, that could get tricky, though I suppose that's where Garden of Dreams could fill in.



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PostPosted: 03/09/18 2:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Garden of Nightmares


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PostPosted: 03/10/18 1:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've been unusually quiet. Calm like a bomb really. Been letting Queenie do the talking for a few reasons. Namely out of respect of Keia Clarke who's been handed the keys to the Concordia after the captain decided to buzz the rocks and go to dinner...no nice way to say it. Love her...but this is a mess.

1. While I think the Wahhiaiahhhs need a franchise sooner than later...moving the team out west is not an answer. Fact that Sun officials have been doing as much if not more to sell us on the Libs than Lib officials tells you the importance of the Libs/NY Market to the league (and may give sun fans rooting for a Lib move a different point of view). Lacob was a lynchpin of the ABL and he can do a lot for the W...but on his terms...which means new arena up and running...patience padawan...but when its open...I think Joe will be a boost to the league.

2. WCC is a disaster...the 29s were a mistake. Upstairs is more important to fans who are giving so much...to limit them...at least open 1 upper deck section...it matters. I've said as much...we will see....that was the only major misstep...they could have gotten more retention not sticking folks in what were 1. seats that were temporary, had exposed edges that like to eat pant legs, and looked more suited for WWE superstars to bash over their heads than Lib fans to jump their butts out of...2. OBSTRUCTED VIEW! I get the econonmics of the tables and ex delta club accomidiations...but going to $29 a seat was a mistake not of obstructed view...39 wasnt as hot as you're almost too close to the floor. hard to see without standing and well I dont think those 29 dollar customers will like that much standing.

3. Lots of empty spaces so even a full house won't look that great on tv...Id rather have some rows in the end zones than the way things are set up...empty when it's full is a real issue...and should even a few of those 29s not show on weekdays, ugly fast.

4. There is good things going for it. I like Katie taking more responsibility being the face of the club and I think there will be changes from bill...that's a change from most of the off season where I thought she would be too much of the same. I dont mind the small moves...I still dont like not breaking up Prince and Rodgers but I wouldnt short sell either as long as they arent starting together...I do agree other teams have improved...but with the sale trepidation there wasnt much to do....We will see.

5. Staff wise...the WCC locals at least are friendly and know they're making the best of a bad situiation...they were the ones who gave us an honest answer on the capacity. League got sold a bill of goods, cant have this for more than 1 year but at least they arent giving us attitude.

6. Transit needs to be the thing...otherwise I can see 3 digit crowds...focus on weekends yes but things can get ugly fast...transit is the key I've told Keia as such...cant go further than that for now but it IS being addressed.

7. Without transit...this was confirmed...3 hours public transit...2.5 about with spending $20 per person (basically doubling your outlay) metro north from queens...for a place where some college arenas would be bigger and better (That Lou pic doesnt show the new jumbotrons they installed...tho there will be renovations...hopefully going all seats, itd be a good final destination...could run shuttles from Jamaica LIRR/Subway easy) but honestly LIU's tiny 1500 seat arena near barclays (and with several restaurants of many walks of like and cuisine) would be better than this place...at least in terms of sightlines...(Yes i know that gym is spoken for for the streetball TBT Tourney just hypothetical) place reminds me of Walsh Gym but with overhangs that make the lower deck even MORE undesirable...and I love walsh gym...but not for pros.

There's a reason we're locking up a Sun plan before the Libs...so we can get to 11 games...our hearts are with the libs, but this cant pass this year...Nassau may be just as bad in terms of transit...but it's an arena...seats 11k...ideal size...and is state of the art...this is a WPA building...just not worth it...sorry...all but cried saying it...and it's the hard work of the players Keia Clarke and Katie Smith that have us coming to the games we CAN come to...upstairs so we can see the game. However that gets done.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 03/10/18 11:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ugh. This is going to be a tough season. I'm going to just wait for balcony single seats to come out and get what I can for each game.



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PostPosted: 03/10/18 11:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You make some good points Happycappie25...the overhang and low risers of the seats makes sitting in the $29 seats not possible .

I went to the first row of the $39 seats mid court but closer to the Lib bench.
Sitting with a fan friend so I can still high five ... I will miss our game day
ritual of passing by your seats at beginning , half time, end of game at MSG
and always saying something to you and Queenie



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PostPosted: 03/10/18 1:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Ugh. This is going to be a tough season. I'm going to just wait for balcony single seats to come out and get what I can for each game.


That's what I'm waiting for. Curious what prices will be.



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PostPosted: 03/10/18 1:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

All of this is just sad ...

We all know it's a business, and that Dolan is not a good owner, but still ... the reward for the devotion and the support of the Liberty is this?

The same could be said, of course, for all the departed franchises, but New York drew well, did well and was in some (if not many) ways the face of the league.

Just very sad ...



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PostPosted: 03/10/18 1:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
All of this is just sad ...

We all know it's a business, and that Dolan is not a good owner, but still ... the reward for the devotion and the support of the Liberty is this?

The same could be said, of course, for all the departed franchises, but New York drew well, did well and was in some (if not many) ways the face of the league.

Just very sad ...


Yes.

I was nine years old when my father came home from work and told me that my beloved Brooklyn Dodgers were heading west forever. I cried. I still tell the ugly joke about Stalin, Hitler, and Walter O'Malley with vengeance. I refuse to call that Los Angeles baseball team "the Dodgers." I call them "the O'Malleys" even though that family no longer owns the team.

I feel for sports fans every time this happens anywhere. Fans give our time, our money, above all our passion to our teams.

We don't know what's ahead for the Liberty after 2018. But Hideous Lord Jimmy has given us some terrible options for this season. We can only hope that somehow it's a great year anyway for the team.



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Lib Fan



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PostPosted: 03/10/18 3:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
ClayK wrote:
All of this is just sad ...

We all know it's a business, and that Dolan is not a good owner, but still ... the reward for the devotion and the support of the Liberty is this?

The same could be said, of course, for all the departed franchises, but New York drew well, did well and was in some (if not many) ways the face of the league.

Just very sad ...


Yes.

I was nine years old when my father came home from work and told me that my beloved Brooklyn Dodgers were heading west forever. I cried. I still tell the ugly joke about Stalin, Hitler, and Walter O'Malley with vengeance. I refuse to call that Los Angeles baseball team "the Dodgers." I call them "the O'Malleys" even though that family no longer owns the team.

I feel for sports fans every time this happens anywhere. Fans give our time, our money, above all our passion to our teams.

We don't know what's ahead for the Liberty after 2018. But Hideous Lord Jimmy has given us some terrible options for this season. We can only hope that somehow it's a great year anyway for the team.


I lived thru the Brooklyn Dodgers leaving me ...I used to walk to Ebbets Field and get Grand Stand Seats with five Elsie Borden ice cream wrappers...OMG that was the day! I also know how it hurt in 1958 when my beloved team was no more ...I still wear a Brooklyn Dodger baseball cap ...and it pains me to tell young fans "NO its not a Boston Red Sox hat.
Dolan shares that horrible greed with Walter O'Malley...lets hope the league
wont let it happen that the Liberty leaves NY. As I have posted many times ...Dolan is doing his best to drive down the number of STH's to make the Liberty less attractive to a buyer that would keep them in NYC...then take an offer from anywhere that will get him more money.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 03/11/18 1:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
No problem. Just invite 1000 kids from local schools to fill those awful seats.


If that is a viable solution, there are a few other teams that should go that route.


Queenie



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PostPosted: 03/11/18 10:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:
7. Without transit...this was confirmed...3 hours public transit...2.5 about with spending $20 per person (basically doubling your outlay) metro north from queens...for a place where some college arenas would be bigger and better (That Lou pic doesnt show the new jumbotrons they installed...tho there will be renovations...hopefully going all seats, itd be a good final destination...could run shuttles from Jamaica LIRR/Subway easy) but honestly LIU's tiny 1500 seat arena near barclays (and with several restaurants of many walks of like and cuisine) would be better than this place...at least in terms of sightlines...(Yes i know that gym is spoken for for the streetball TBT Tourney just hypothetical) place reminds me of Walsh Gym but with overhangs that make the lower deck even MORE undesirable...and I love walsh gym...but not for pros.


(Were you also seized with the urge to go "Hey! I can see my seat from here!" in that picture of Carnesecca?)

LIU's pretty much all bleachers, though, except for that upper deck. That's where Fordham and Hofstra have the advantage. Hell, I think Manhattan's gone mostly to chairbacks, but that gym is only ADA-accessible through multiple secret passages and you still have to get up the hill from the 1, and all gods help you if the parking garage elevator is busted like it was for the Iona game.

I've just remembered what WCC's layout reminds me of. My alma mater. D-III Hunter. Except at least WCC isn't in the sub-sub-basement of a major academic building. (And it looks like they made the seating at Hunter make more sense after I left. But I digress.)



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toad455



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PostPosted: 03/11/18 11:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We all need to be optimistic and hope this is only temporary and we get new ownership for 2019 to move the team to Barclays.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 03/11/18 11:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Unless the Liberty finds some super wealthy owner who doesn’t care about maximizing profits, I think it’s unrealistic for a new owner to return the team to a high capacity, high rent venue. Surely there must be an acceptable compromise between Westchester and Barclays.... one of the many college venues?



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PostPosted: 03/11/18 11:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Unless the Liberty finds some super wealthy owner who doesn’t care about maximizing profits, I think it’s unrealistic for a new owner to return the team to a high capacity, high rent venue. Surely there must be an acceptable compromise between Westchester and Barclays.... one of the many college venues?


Having read extensive discussions here for months--including people's comments about college venues I've never visited--I question use of the word "surely." I am skeptical that any of these venues would be better for the Liberty than the lousy option of Westchester County Center.



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Queenie



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PostPosted: 03/11/18 2:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Unless the Liberty finds some super wealthy owner who doesn’t care about maximizing profits, I think it’s unrealistic for a new owner to return the team to a high capacity, high rent venue. Surely there must be an acceptable compromise between Westchester and Barclays.... one of the many college venues?


The problem with most of the local college venues is the seating. Most schools use bleachers, even the ones that are partially built with full seats. If a new owner wanted to go in with a school to upgrade the seats, that might be fun, though. The other problem is the size- yes, we have seven D-I schools in NYC, but most of them play in very, very small facilities. I suppose technically Manhattan could be the largest, since it's an indoor track facility and you might be able to move temporary seating around, but that's an ADA nightmare. There's a reason I keep pushing St. John's, and it's not *just* personal convenience and familiarity with the space.

Nassau Coliseum makes the most sense size-wise, but it's a haul. My hope is for the development near Belmont to materialize- while it's still far out from the center of the city, it's somewhat closer, and from what I've heard the size would be perfect.



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PostPosted: 03/11/18 3:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
Shades wrote:
Unless the Liberty finds some super wealthy owner who doesn’t care about maximizing profits, I think it’s unrealistic for a new owner to return the team to a high capacity, high rent venue. Surely there must be an acceptable compromise between Westchester and Barclays.... one of the many college venues?


The problem with most of the local college venues is the seating. Most schools use bleachers, even the ones that are partially built with full seats. If a new owner wanted to go in with a school to upgrade the seats, that might be fun, though. The other problem is the size- yes, we have seven D-I schools in NYC, but most of them play in very, very small facilities. I suppose technically Manhattan could be the largest, since it's an indoor track facility and you might be able to move temporary seating around, but that's an ADA nightmare. There's a reason I keep pushing St. John's, and it's not *just* personal convenience and familiarity with the space.

Nassau Coliseum makes the most sense size-wise, but it's a haul. My hope is for the development near Belmont to materialize- while it's still far out from the center of the city, it's somewhat closer, and from what I've heard the size would be perfect.


I went to see horse racing at Belmont years ago, but didn't remember how long it took via public transportation. I've just checked and it's looking like an hour and 10 minutes by train from Penn Station to Belmont Park. That's not great for me or a good number of other fans. Coming from the Upper West Side, I'd have to allow at least an hour and a half each way to see a Liberty game.

I am well aware that toad's hope and my hope regarding the Barclay Center may be unrealistic. If somehow it proves to be possible, I still think this is the second-best option after Madison Square Garden. Despite it being "a haul" (as Queenie has said), I view Nassau Coliseum as third. If it becomes an option, perhaps Belmont could move ahead of Nassau Coliseum. In my view, Westchester County Center and all the college venues (including St. John's) are minor league and problematic in a variety of ways.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 03/11/18 5:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

realistically, Barclays is the best option for a new ownership group to keep the team in New York. With the arena soon to be splitting games with the Islanders(1/3 at Nassau in 2018-19), the arena will have more available dates for concerts in the Fall & Winter. Looking at the event calendar for Barclays this summer, May, June & July are nearly completely open. August has a bunch of concerts, but this could be good for the owners of the Barclays if they feel the Liberty could pull in even 7-8,000 during the summer to help fill the arena's calendar.



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Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 03/11/18 7:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Also Barclays is located close to Park Slope...traditionally an LGBT hub and a place where many fans can commute to easily...and is at a massive crossroads subway wise. Lower deck seems smaller than the garden was...I'd say 7 - 8 downstairs a club level and the rest upstairs believe its 16k for basketball

The colleges...Columbia apparently has issues with the wall being too close to the court...many gyms are like this...Hell Carenesseca may run afoul of this and their upper deck has some sightline issues and is all plastic bleachers...tho renovations coming...

But just to be a total devil's advocate to show how limited the options are:

Nassau: 12k good sightlines...state of the art...this is not the Mousleum people remember with wooden seats...it was completely gutted and retrofitted...the big issue is the transit issue is as bad if not worse than White Plains...despite being a bit closer as the crow flies, especially in the outer boros and at least directly drivable from NJ as its off the meadowbrook about 90 mins from Morris County.

But the con is transit...there is NO public transit...you have to go to hempstead either thru LIRR or N6 bus and transfer to the N70 which does not run frequently. It's about 2.5 from queens given how SLOW Nice runs their busses...not much better than WCC transit wise...but NIGHT AND DAY in terms of arena.

Mack Sports Complex (Hofstra): 5k legit with a nice pavillion area between the decks for family fun zones, the bleachers are all chairbacks and has a decent center hung scoreboard.

The con? It's across the street...LITERALLY ACROSS THE STREET from Nassau colseium so why not just go there.

Carnessecca Arena (St. Johns): Nice new jumbotron, center hung video board and digital floor dashers, has outdoor space in front that can be used for fanfests, holds about 6k. Transit accessability isnt as bad as the papers say...its not good but it's better than WCC or any of the Nassau options. The 31 and 30 lines run up from Jamaica LIRR and the E and J lines. the 46 which is a major arterial bus line, runs down from the E and F Union turnpike stop...can do it in an hour from MSG...done it for 4 years...E to union to the 46 which on weekdays have 3 different lines (all stop there) and run very frequentely even later at night. Shuttles could be run from there as well. For those willing to Splurge...the QM Express Bus service run about 3 lines down the 46 from midtown manhattan forget the numbers as they just changed it...it USED TO BE called the QM1A

The issue is the arena...almost ALL bleachers, and the chairbacks are the retractable type...and I mean BLEACHERS, hard plastic, no back support...got butt cups on the upper deck ones, on hard concrete stairs...Wheelchairs would be relegated to around the concourse. Not much space to put VIP seats either...the Endcourts are elevated about 10 feet with a padded wall...It was mentioned walls close to the end zone are not liked by the W...and was an issue with columbia but those seats are retractible (and not good sightlines anyway) so this may be worked out.

The upper deck has some issues as well...it seems that some are blocked by the overhang...not good and the consessions were moved into the lobby because the concessions were such a bottleneck...however it is a nice gathering place with places to sell merch. But renovations are coming, and NEEDED. needs to be all seats...but it's not as bad as some have sold it...its a decent alternative and possible final destination. but too many bleachers for now.

Rose Hill Gym (Fordham): It's a nice beautiful stone building and just went to both courtside sections going all seats, and nice seats to boot. The endcourts are bleachers, but to put groups of kids they are spacious. There is a strange upper area that you could put tables for VIP seats as there isnt much room elsewhere.

The big con is that there are no facilities in the gym...have to leave the gym to access toilets! and those restrooms are tiny...also the consession stands is a HS Esque corner of the arena with all portable items...there is a bar/club area under the arena for postgame gatherings that could be used for vips, and the school's caf is across from the gym so maybe you use that for a fee...capacity is maybe 1750 but honestly...given the renovation to all seats...and HUGE jerrytrons I'd take it over WCC for one year...honest...location isnt bad...MANY bus lines including the BX12SBS which stops on one end of campus...2 Bee lines, Metro north, and a short (But uphill walk) to D service...go about 4 blocks more you can get the 4...better than WCC but capacity too small to discuss except it would have been a better choice than WCC...by fair.

Draddy Gym (Manhattan College, which is actually in the Bronx): As Queenie mentioned, it's all temporary seating, and much of it chairback. As it's an indoor track and field center plenty of space for VIP and fanfest areas and could get to fit up to 5-6k but on tv it would be obvious you're playing in a temporary setup. Transit wise it's a slow but easy go as it's at the end of two long lines plus bee line service for our friends in yonkers. the 1 train in Manhattan and the BX9 in the bronx...both acccessable from other lines from other outer boros.

Issue is it's on a hilltop...transit stops at the BOTTOM of the hill...it's a 8 story walk...UPHILL...there is a garage, there are elevators...but they dont always work. Most older fans would have SERIOUS issues getting there...for a place that is well temporary seats and court. no thanks but it's a thought. Building itself is old too

Leiven Gym (Columbia): Well we've been there before...entrances are questionable and apparently the walls are too close to the court for W standards...but again if your asking for 2300 like WCC I'd rather be there near fans than WCC but only reason I mention...the walls make it a non starter.

The WRAC (LIU Brooklyn): quarter mile from Barclays with some reception areas for VIPs but is mostly bleachers and only holds maybe 1500...that said again Better than WCC but already booked for the TBT semi pro tournament that gets good draw due to its teams of alumni from various colleges and many borderline NBA players playing overseas or in the D/G league.

Barclays Center: Place is built for Basketball, period, dont be scared about the Isles being kicked out, thats more because to retrofit for hockey so much expense needed to be put in. Doesnt get as many concert dates and is in a transit hub.

Con: Would we have more of the same...but 8k there would outdo the garden..it really would...this is the best option...tho not the only option...but i agree there are very few good options out there. and I'm not even considering NJ or Pru center as we know the deal there.

hope this helps. will say tho...there were much better alternatives to WCC if your going down to 2500 anyway...might as well go to rose hill at least it looks good on tv and there are NO obstructed view seats!



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PostPosted: 03/11/18 8:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thanks for all this information and analysis, Happycappie.

I'd just add one wonderful advantage of the uptown Fordham campus. Depending on game time, one can go before or after to the wonderful Arthur Avenue neighborhood, "Little Italy of the Bronx." It's one of my favorite things about New York City and SO much better than super-touristy Little Italy in Manhattan. Great shops for buying pasta, bread, cheese, etc.

But I still don't like any of these minor-league options.



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libertycrazy97



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PostPosted: 03/13/18 7:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
The problem is that unless they've literally stopped giving any single shits whatsoever, they have to try to fill those lower seats first because those are the ones front and center on TV. If they let all of you sign up for those balcony seats and then can't fill the ones lower down, that's going to look awful. A 2,300-seat arena and they can't even put people in the fifth row? So I kind of understand them not making those seats available to season ticket purchasers initially. I totally understand you guys being pissed off about it - this whole thing's a complete shambles - but it makes some sense from the other side.


Horribly, what Richyyy is saying here seems to make sense. And in this unique way the Westchester County Center is worse for Liberty fans than a small college gym where the seats you'd assume to be the best genuinely are. What a fiasco.



Actually they did open the balcony to us a few days later. An a few of us moved up there. and my price dropped to $14 a game!!


libertycrazy97



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PostPosted: 03/13/18 8:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dolan was not moving this team to Barclays, Prudential or Nassau. He is looking to get rid of the team and off his financial books. He would have to pay big rent for these venues. Take your heart out of it (i am a die hard from day one) its simply business. WCC he is probably paying peanuts to rent it out.

Honestly we didn't draw overly well at pru center so he wasnt going back there. when he would pay a large over head. Barclays we probably would of lost a few but may have drawn what we do at MSG. But again large money to be paid and he doesnt want to do that. Nassau we would not draw well. basically like people on LI and NJ are saying WCC is a slap in the face to them. Well Nassau is a slap in the face to those in other areas like westchester or even the bronx. getting out there by public transport would be a pain in the butt.

We will see what 2019 brings.


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