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toad455



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 3:15 pm    ::: NY Liberty to play in Westchester Reply Reply with quote

http://beyondthew.com/sources-new-york-liberty-have-found-a-new-home-at-the-westchester-county-center/



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 3:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Welp toad at least you predicted it so your expectations cant be that shot right ?



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Shades



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 3:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wouldn’t exactly call it a prediction, but I thought Westchester made the most sense if they remained in the NYC area.
http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=92992



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 3:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Toad predicted it as a suggestion multiple times . No one gets a trophy for knowing or announcing first .



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LibFan25



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 3:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

its close to home, i will be there with friends and family


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PostPosted: 02/06/18 3:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Only 5,000 seats?



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 3:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

adamj95 wrote:
Only 5,000 seats?


Yikes , Maybe those attendance #'s of the past were a bit inflated Much if they believe 5000 is serviceable for the liberty ?



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 3:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
adamj95 wrote:
Only 5,000 seats?


Yikes , Maybe those attendance #'s of the past were a bit inflated Much if they believe 5000 is serviceable for the liberty ?


They probably assume that many of them won't schlep out to Westchester



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toad455



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 3:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
adamj95 wrote:
Only 5,000 seats?


Yikes , Maybe those attendance #'s of the past were a bit inflated Much if they believe 5000 is serviceable for the liberty ?


We shall see. The fans didn't make the trip to Newark, NJ. So will they make the trip to Westchester?

Trip prices should drop. Westchester Knicks tickets range from $46 - $20.



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 3:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Toad predicted it as a suggestion multiple times . No one gets a trophy for knowing or announcing first .


Shades gets a gold star, we've been over this countless times.



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 3:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Time to get some refunds!


Shades



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 3:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jmvcity wrote:
Time to get some refunds!


Did you pay for MSG?



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 3:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

From the article:

Quote:
The reasons behind their choice to use this facility can be for a number of reasons. For one, it probably will save the league a ton of money when it comes to rent, because it is no secret that the cost of renting any of the major arenas (especially in New York City) per game can be astronomical.


Does this imply the league is taking over the franchise, or is it maybe just sloppy writing?



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toad455



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 3:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
jmvcity wrote:
Time to get some refunds!


Did you pay for MSG?


Season tickets for 2018 were being sold immediately after the '17 season ended. Ticket reps have been unreachable since the New Year.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 3:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sigur3 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Toad predicted it as a suggestion multiple times . No one gets a trophy for knowing or announcing first .


Shades gets a gold star, we've been over this countless times.


Just financially it was their best option. I have to imagine Barclays was $$$. Who knows about Nassau or Prudential?



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 3:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
From the article:

Quote:
The reasons behind their choice to use this facility can be for a number of reasons. For one, it probably will save the league a ton of money when it comes to rent, because it is no secret that the cost of renting any of the major arenas (especially in New York City) per game can be astronomical.


Does this imply the league is taking over the franchise, or is it maybe just sloppy writing?


He probably meant “team”.

And all this isn’t confirmed yet, which is why I didn’t post a topic on it like it is confirmed. This guy could be no more connected than Barcoff.



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 4:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If this is true, fuck the fuck out of this bullshit. A weekend plan would barely be viable for us.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 4:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I still hope they play those 6 games at MSG if that offer from Jimmy 'Jackass' Dolan is still on the table.



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 4:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
adamj95 wrote:
Only 5,000 seats?


Yikes , Maybe those attendance #'s of the past were a bit inflated Much if they believe 5000 is serviceable for the liberty ?


A LOT of people are not going to go to games there. 5000 seats is actually enough. They’ll actually be lucky if they get 4000 fans per game. Same thing will happen when DC moves to their tuna can. No one is going to go. I think the DC arena only holds 4500. They’ll get half that. Same thing in Dallas, playing at the smaller arena they play in. No one goes. These smaller arenas may be cheaper to rent out, but when no one goes to the games, they’re still not going to make any profits. It’s the beginning of the end


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PostPosted: 02/06/18 4:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not seeing any of the major women's bball writers (Feinberg, Voepel) tweet about this nor Hoopfeed, Hoopism, DishNSwish, etc...

So, not confirmed? Just not familiar with the source here.

Pros here are the Liberty are staying in New York as a franchise. Cons are obvious (small arena, not in urban setting) - but perhaps the new ownership group has negotiated and secured a few MSG dates.


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PostPosted: 02/06/18 4:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When you think that starting in 2019, 5 teams will be playing in arenas that seat under 10k. How much can the league really improve on attendance this way?



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 4:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
From the article:

Quote:
The reasons behind their choice to use this facility can be for a number of reasons. For one, it probably will save the league a ton of money when it comes to rent, because it is no secret that the cost of renting any of the major arenas (especially in New York City) per game can be astronomical.


Does this imply the league is taking over the franchise, or is it maybe just sloppy writing?



Well, the article did say that there is "still no word yet on who the new owner(s) will be", and the season/draft is coming up, so maybe it is for the time being... Idea



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 4:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
When you think that starting in 2019, 5 teams will be playing in arenas that seat under 10k. How much can the league really improve on attendance this way?

If the teams in small arenas can fill up its much better for the league to create a demand to go to games and I dont see why being in a giant space is a good thing?


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PostPosted: 02/06/18 4:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
When you think that starting in 2019, 5 teams will be playing in arenas that seat under 10k. How much can the league really improve on attendance this way?


It’s all about broadcasting rights. Attendance for sports in general is down as people become more economically sensible. Why pay big bucks to go to the game when you can watch on your 65” and rising big screens in the comfort of your own home?

Although, people were going crazy trying to attend the South Carolina vs Mississippi St last night. Sold out and there was even some hardcore scalping going on. Maybe the league should think about a team in Starkville.



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 4:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RHW wrote:
toad455 wrote:
When you think that starting in 2019, 5 teams will be playing in arenas that seat under 10k. How much can the league really improve on attendance this way?

If the teams in small arenas can fill up its much better for the league to create a demand to go to games and I dont see why being in a giant space is a good thing?


But that's a big assumption. I can tell you right now that attendance in Westchester would a) drop like a rock, b) probably be about the same percentage of capacity used as current attendance at MSG.

I know, speaking for myself and Happycappie, that I would have to cut back to a partial plan at best if the Liberty moved to Westchester. I say this as a fan who's been willing to travel and who made the hike out to Newark for damn near every game for three years. I say this as a fan of low-major women's basketball who's been to games at some truly embarrassing facilities.

Can I get a "FUCK YOU DOLAN" from the choir?



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 5:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Dream only moved a few miles and it has really hurt the game crowds (even more than what the published figures say.) The lack of Marta access is a killer for many people.

There is a new 3500 seat arena being built for the Hawk g-league team right next to Atlanta airport. I'm sure hoping that does not become the site for Dream games (though it might have Marta access) though it does seem this sort of thing is becoming the norm for WNBA teams.



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 5:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
RHW wrote:
toad455 wrote:
When you think that starting in 2019, 5 teams will be playing in arenas that seat under 10k. How much can the league really improve on attendance this way?

If the teams in small arenas can fill up its much better for the league to create a demand to go to games and I dont see why being in a giant space is a good thing?


But that's a big assumption. I can tell you right now that attendance in Westchester would a) drop like a rock, b) probably be about the same percentage of capacity used as current attendance at MSG.

I know, speaking for myself and Happycappie, that I would have to cut back to a partial plan at best if the Liberty moved to Westchester. I say this as a fan who's been willing to travel and who made the hike out to Newark for damn near every game for three years. I say this as a fan of low-major women's basketball who's been to games at some truly embarrassing facilities.

Can I get a "FUCK YOU DOLAN" from the choir?


I have been blasting Hideous Lord Jimmy for years on this board. I wish more Liberty fans cared about Isiah Thomas's sexual harassment of Anucha Browne. And about the lies that Thomas and Dolan have continued to publicly spout since the jury ruled against Thomas and MSG and since Dolan appointed Thomas as president of the Liberty.



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 5:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:

Can I get a "FUCK YOU DOLAN" from the choir?


Does he have a Twitter account? Asking for a friend.



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 5:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And if they plan on having weeknight games at 7pm, I can't imagine those who work in the city wanting to make that train ride up there, especially if they might miss the first quarter. At least the trip to Newark was about a half hour (train and walking). They might as well make every weekday home game be a camp day.


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PostPosted: 02/06/18 5:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
The Dream only moved a few miles and it has really hurt the game crowds (even more than what the published figures say.) The lack of Marta access is a killer for many people.

There is a new 3500 seat arena being built for the Hawk g-league team right next to Atlanta airport. I'm sure hoping that does not become the site for Dream games (though it might have Marta access) though it does seem this sort of thing is becoming the norm for WNBA teams.


I think you may be on to something there Randy. I’ll hand you my Stanley Cup of First trophy if this comes to fruition. Wink

Maybe the Hawks ownership will take over the Dream and move them into that joint.



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 5:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
adamj95 wrote:
Only 5,000 seats?


Yikes , Maybe those attendance #'s of the past were a bit inflated Much if they believe 5000 is serviceable for the liberty ?


A LOT of people are not going to go to games there. 5000 seats is actually enough. They’ll actually be lucky if they get 4000 fans per game. Same thing will happen when DC moves to their tuna can. No one is going to go. I think the DC arena only holds 4500. They’ll get half that. Same thing in Dallas, playing at the smaller arena they play in. No one goes. These smaller arenas may be cheaper to rent out, but when no one goes to the games, they’re still not going to make any profits. It’s the beginning of the end


I think a major factor seems to be most of these small venues the W uses are not geographically close to the city they represent . I dont know how far Westechester is from Downtown NY , but Speaking for my Wings . We play in Arlington in which is about a 25 minute drive from Downtown dallas were the Mavericks play . Arlington is an up and coming suburb , but its not Dallas at all . Most wings fans i know only get to about 1 or 2 games a season due to the distance and other people i know here in dallas didnt even know the WNBA existed here due to them playing in arlington and NOT dallas. Theres no public transportation no rail service going to Arlington , all of that is located in DALLAS. This is something that needs to be addressed in my opinion .



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 5:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Maybe the Hawks ownership will take over the Dream and move them into that joint.


The W has been steadily moving away from NBA co-ownership. The Liberty sale brings the number down to four. Let's not backtrack.



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 5:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Shades wrote:
Maybe the Hawks ownership will take over the Dream and move them into that joint.


The W has been steadily moving away from NBA co-ownership. The Liberty sale brings the number down to four. Let's not backtrack.


Well the W just backtracked with the liberty moving out of MSG in my eyes. 1 step backward for every 2 steps forward maybe ?



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 6:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Shades wrote:
Maybe the Hawks ownership will take over the Dream and move them into that joint.


The W has been steadily moving away from NBA co-ownership. The Liberty sale brings the number down to four. Let's not backtrack.


You don’t want NBA ownership? I love NBA ownership. Wouldn’t want it any other way. Depends on the owner, I guess.

If it becomes zero NBA owners, what interest would NBA have in supporting WNBA?



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toad455



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 6:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
pilight wrote:
Shades wrote:
Maybe the Hawks ownership will take over the Dream and move them into that joint.


The W has been steadily moving away from NBA co-ownership. The Liberty sale brings the number down to four. Let's not backtrack.


Well the W just backtracked with the liberty moving out of MSG in my eyes. 1 step backward for every 2 steps forward maybe ?


this is a big step backwards for the league. And another step back next season when the Mystics move to their little gym.

Capacity wise by 2019 this is what the league is looking at:
Target Center: 19,356
Staples Center: 18,997
Bankers Life Fieldhouse: 18,165
Talking Stick: 18,055
Phillips Arena: 15,711
Mandalay Bay Center: 12,000
Wintrust Arena: 10,387
Key Arena(lower bowl): 9,686
Mohegan Sun: 9,323
College Park Center: 7,200
Westchester Community Center: 5,000
East Entertainment and Sports Arena: 4,200



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 6:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
pilight wrote:
Shades wrote:
Maybe the Hawks ownership will take over the Dream and move them into that joint.


The W has been steadily moving away from NBA co-ownership. The Liberty sale brings the number down to four. Let's not backtrack.


You don’t want NBA ownership? I love NBA ownership. Wouldn’t want it any other way. Depends on the owner, I guess.

If it becomes zero NBA owners, what interest would NBA have in supporting WNBA?


If it becomes 12 then you have to worry about an owner wanting to dump his team once they dont meet a profit or because he wants some NBA stud for the salary he has to pay his WNBA players. #2001



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 6:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I did some noodling around with Google Maps. It's about an hour from Midtown, if you're lucky and you can get to and afford Metro-North. For me, it's about two hours one-way home. Longer if I have to cheap out and take a bus back to the subway (yes, there are connections between the Bee-Line buses and the subway; yes, Bee-Line buses take MetroCards)

By the way, Metro-North fare between Grand Central and White Plains is $9.75. Off-peak. One-way. $12.25 peak, which is when you'd be going to a night game.

So yeah, this would not be viable for me and Happycappie in Queens as a full-season plan. Or for my mom and her friends in Brooklyn. Or my former seatmate in Astoria. Or for my buddy in Staten Island. Or my other buddy in Parsippany. Or the woman out on the Island who's close enough to Port Jefferson that she got Sun season tickets during the exile to Newark.

(It might be okay for the lady I know in Mount Vernon and the one who works in New Rochelle, but even that's a little out of the way. Maybe it'll work for that one guy on the 6 train.)

And forget getting the community involved. Something tells me NYC teams are not heading up to White Plains for a game, and I know I've seen high school and college teams at the Garden for games.



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 6:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Liberty always had the luxury of getting a ton of walk up sales. Either by way of the locals, people getting out of work in NYC & grabbing a ticket last minute or tourists looking to cool off in the summer. The Liberty lose all of those by moving to Westchester.



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 6:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe they’ll come up with a special transportation deal.



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 6:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RHW wrote:
toad455 wrote:
When you think that starting in 2019, 5 teams will be playing in arenas that seat under 10k. How much can the league really improve on attendance this way?

If the teams in small arenas can fill up its much better for the league to create a demand to go to games and I dont see why being in a giant space is a good thing?


I've always said this too. No one is impressed by a big arena that looks only 20% full. That same crowd in a smaller building is a much better atmosphere IMO.

Having said that, a small arena in a bad location? That ain't good. Location is critical.

Welcome to Reb's btw Smile



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 6:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
The Liberty always had the luxury of getting a ton of walk up sales. Either by way of the locals, people getting out of work in NYC & grabbing a ticket last minute or tourists looking to cool off in the summer. The Liberty lose all of those by moving to Westchester.


This is exactly right. Walk-up sales in White Plains will be minimal compared to midtown Manhattan. Indeed, by playing at the Garden the team was at a location with many subway and train lines right there for people to get home after a weeknight game.



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 6:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
adamj95 wrote:
Only 5,000 seats?


Yikes , Maybe those attendance #'s of the past were a bit inflated Much if they believe 5000 is serviceable for the liberty ?


A LOT of people are not going to go to games there. 5000 seats is actually enough. They’ll actually be lucky if they get 4000 fans per game. Same thing will happen when DC moves to their tuna can. No one is going to go. I think the DC arena only holds 4500. They’ll get half that. Same thing in Dallas, playing at the smaller arena they play in. No one goes. These smaller arenas may be cheaper to rent out, but when no one goes to the games, they’re still not going to make any profits. It’s the beginning of the end


I think a major factor seems to be most of these small venues the W uses are not geographically close to the city they represent . I dont know how far Westechester is from Downtown NY , but Speaking for my Wings . We play in Arlington in which is about a 25 minute drive from Downtown dallas were the Mavericks play . Arlington is an up and coming suburb , but its not Dallas at all . Most wings fans i know only get to about 1 or 2 games a season due to the distance and other people i know here in dallas didnt even know the WNBA existed here due to them playing in arlington and NOT dallas. Theres no public transportation no rail service going to Arlington , all of that is located in DALLAS. This is something that needs to be addressed in my opinion .

Arlington is the largest metro in America that does not have public transportation. Frankly that the way they like it. To be honest only people that care about Women Basketball in DFW because it a hotbed for girls basketball. Like most of us we have interest because of we have connection with AAU girls basketball or women college basketball players. For me I played basketball in college and my wife. Both daughters play in college now so it's what we do.


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PostPosted: 02/06/18 6:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote



yikes Confused



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 6:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wow At that Map Luuc , Thats like a whole different region of the state !



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 7:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Wow At that Map Luuc , Thats like a whole different region of the state !


It's only about 30 miles. I travel twice that for Dream games.



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 7:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

wow JD keeps the team?!?


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PostPosted: 02/06/18 7:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Wow At that Map Luuc , Thats like a whole different region of the state !


It's only about 30 miles. I travel twice that for Dream games.


Different culture. I know Liberty fans who drive, but they're in the minority from my experience.



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 7:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Wow At that Map Luuc , Thats like a whole different region of the state !


It's only about 30 miles. I travel twice that for Dream games.


If the average WNBA fan had your level of dedication, the whole league would be in a very difference place today. But alas ...



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 7:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Doug Feinberg @DougFeinberg
Dolan's group is still looking for a buyer for the team.


....



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PostPosted: 02/06/18 7:19 pm    ::: WNBA’s New York Liberty no longer for sale Reply Reply with quote

https://www.foxsports.com/wnba/story/apnewsbreak-wnba-s-new-york-liberty-no-longer-for-sale-020618



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