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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8225 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 01/19/18 6:45 pm ::: UConn should go Independent in WCBB |
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I don't know if AAC rules would enable or prohibit it, but everyone would be better off if UConn's women's basketball team were to resign from the AAC and become an independent team.
I don't know that any basketball teams are independent at present, but there have been several independents in basketball and football (and maybe other sports) in prior decades, and there have been several schools that have different sports in different conferences.
UConn and it's fans would be better off. UConn could schedule a more competitive and interesting slate of regular season games without being anchored to the 11 other AAC schools that offer no competition and that are unlikely ever to do so in the foreseeable future. UConn would also be able to renew games with traditional rivals in the local northeast, to which its fans can travel by car or bus, such as Rutgers and Villanova.
The AAC would be better off. One can imagine that every other AAC women's basketball team would jump for joy at the prospect of having a real shot at a conference title. Without UConn, the conference could evolve into a very competive one.
TV coverage would be better off. If UConn could schedule a strong schedule made up primarily of top 25 schools, there would be a greater number of strong games available for the TV networks.
The sport would be better off. This follows from the benefits to UConn, the AAC and TV. In addition, UConn's independence would offer additional chances to defeat UConn throughout the season, or at least to prepare for facing UConn again in the NCAA tournament, and to make the sport seem less fatalistic.
WCBB is basically a money loser at almost every school, so I'm not sure whether UConn's going independent would have any significant financial effects on any school or conference. Football seems to be the prime financial driver of just about everything, followed by men's basketball, which would be unaffected in the AAC. |
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32335
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Posted: 01/19/18 7:47 pm ::: |
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I believe the NCAA 'outlawed' independent a few years back and told all the independents they needed to join a conference. (Not positive about this but maybe someone else knows)
Anyway, I think UConn does fine by scheduling lots of challenging OOC games. If anything, if there was a way for their WBB to belong to a different conference like the ACC, that might be an answer. I think some football teams in non-football leagues are allowed to play in a conference other than their own....but again, not sure about that either.
One thing that seems increasingly weird to me is non-regionality of conferences...ie West Virginia in the B12 makes no sense. UConn with a bunch of Texas teams makes no sense. Temple and Cinncy also for that matter. Chicago St. in the WAC? But then they don't pay me to do alignment. It's almost like NC gerrymandering its congressional districts.
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18029 Location: Queens
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Posted: 01/20/18 8:14 am ::: |
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I don't think they can go independent just in women's hoops. Hell, I don't know if they can just go independent in basketball. The last independent I know of was NJIT, and that was because the Great West disintegrated around them. (Going back to myrtle's point about non-regionality... exactly what is Newark west of other than New York?)
I admit to enjoying UConn fans lamenting their place in the AAC. This is the life your school chose for the sake of football. We tried to tell 'em.
_________________ Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014 Posts: 3511
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Posted: 01/20/18 12:24 pm ::: |
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As an independent, it might be difficult for UConn to schedule games after Christmas when other schools are locked into their own conference schedules. I don't actually see the need for this anyway because UConn consistently has a high SOS. They just play tough OOC teams then conference cupcakes, rather than OOC cupcakes then tough P5 teams like a lot of other schools do. The only real loser here is the second place AAC team who's deprived of an automatic trip to the NCAAT. I wouldn't be averse to the SelCom showing a little favoritism to any AAC team that finds itself on the bubble.
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Ladyvol777
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 248
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Posted: 01/20/18 12:31 pm ::: Re: UConn should go Independent in WCBB |
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GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I don't know if AAC rules would enable or prohibit it, but everyone would be better off if UConn's women's basketball team were to resign from the AAC and become an independent team.
I don't know that any basketball teams are independent at present, but there have been several independents in basketball and football (and maybe other sports) in prior decades, and there have been several schools that have different sports in different conferences.
UConn and it's fans would be better off. UConn could schedule a more competitive and interesting slate of regular season games without being anchored to the 11 other AAC schools that offer no competition and that are unlikely ever to do so in the foreseeable future. UConn would also be able to renew games with traditional rivals in the local northeast, to which its fans can travel by car or bus, such as Rutgers and Villanova.
The AAC would be better off. One can imagine that every other AAC women's basketball team would jump for joy at the prospect of having a real shot at a conference title. Without UConn, the conference could evolve into a very competive one.
TV coverage would be better off. If UConn could schedule a strong schedule made up primarily of top 25 schools, there would be a greater number of strong games available for the TV networks.
The sport would be better off. This follows from the benefits to UConn, the AAC and TV. In addition, UConn's independence would offer additional chances to defeat UConn throughout the season, or at least to prepare for facing UConn again in the NCAA tournament, and to make the sport seem less fatalistic.
WCBB is basically a money loser at almost every school, so I'm not sure whether UConn's going independent would have any significant financial effects on any school or conference. Football seems to be the prime financial driver of just about everything, followed by men's basketball, which would be unaffected in the AAC. |
After Geno retires UCONN will be a has been.
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Ladyvol777
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 248
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Posted: 01/20/18 12:31 pm ::: Re: UConn should go Independent in WCBB |
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GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I don't know if AAC rules would enable or prohibit it, but everyone would be better off if UConn's women's basketball team were to resign from the AAC and become an independent team.
I don't know that any basketball teams are independent at present, but there have been several independents in basketball and football (and maybe other sports) in prior decades, and there have been several schools that have different sports in different conferences.
UConn and it's fans would be better off. UConn could schedule a more competitive and interesting slate of regular season games without being anchored to the 11 other AAC schools that offer no competition and that are unlikely ever to do so in the foreseeable future. UConn would also be able to renew games with traditional rivals in the local northeast, to which its fans can travel by car or bus, such as Rutgers and Villanova.
The AAC would be better off. One can imagine that every other AAC women's basketball team would jump for joy at the prospect of having a real shot at a conference title. Without UConn, the conference could evolve into a very competive one.
TV coverage would be better off. If UConn could schedule a strong schedule made up primarily of top 25 schools, there would be a greater number of strong games available for the TV networks.
The sport would be better off. This follows from the benefits to UConn, the AAC and TV. In addition, UConn's independence would offer additional chances to defeat UConn throughout the season, or at least to prepare for facing UConn again in the NCAA tournament, and to make the sport seem less fatalistic.
WCBB is basically a money loser at almost every school, so I'm not sure whether UConn's going independent would have any significant financial effects on any school or conference. Football seems to be the prime financial driver of just about everything, followed by men's basketball, which would be unaffected in the AAC. |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66900 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 01/20/18 12:32 pm ::: Re: UConn should go Independent in WCBB |
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Ladyvol777 wrote: |
GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I don't know if AAC rules would enable or prohibit it, but everyone would be better off if UConn's women's basketball team were to resign from the AAC and become an independent team.
I don't know that any basketball teams are independent at present, but there have been several independents in basketball and football (and maybe other sports) in prior decades, and there have been several schools that have different sports in different conferences.
UConn and it's fans would be better off. UConn could schedule a more competitive and interesting slate of regular season games without being anchored to the 11 other AAC schools that offer no competition and that are unlikely ever to do so in the foreseeable future. UConn would also be able to renew games with traditional rivals in the local northeast, to which its fans can travel by car or bus, such as Rutgers and Villanova.
The AAC would be better off. One can imagine that every other AAC women's basketball team would jump for joy at the prospect of having a real shot at a conference title. Without UConn, the conference could evolve into a very competive one.
TV coverage would be better off. If UConn could schedule a strong schedule made up primarily of top 25 schools, there would be a greater number of strong games available for the TV networks.
The sport would be better off. This follows from the benefits to UConn, the AAC and TV. In addition, UConn's independence would offer additional chances to defeat UConn throughout the season, or at least to prepare for facing UConn again in the NCAA tournament, and to make the sport seem less fatalistic.
WCBB is basically a money loser at almost every school, so I'm not sure whether UConn's going independent would have any significant financial effects on any school or conference. Football seems to be the prime financial driver of just about everything, followed by men's basketball, which would be unaffected in the AAC. |
After Geno retires UCONN will be a has been. |
A Lady Vols fan would know about the aftermath of losing a legendary coach
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014 Posts: 3511
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Posted: 01/20/18 12:40 pm ::: |
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The Geno comment was a bit snarky, but it does bring up an interesting point. Will UConn basketball decline enough after Geno's retirement that the AAC will then be a good fit? Tenn's experience would say not, because while CHW is no Pat Summitt, I think most would agree that the SEC is still a more appropriate place for the Lady Vols than an AAC-level conference. Does anyone think Geno is any more, or less, likely to step down sooner now that they're in the AAC?
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dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 18815
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Posted: 01/20/18 1:02 pm ::: |
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FrozenLVFan wrote: |
The Geno comment was a bit snarky, but it does bring up an interesting point. Will UConn basketball decline enough after Geno's retirement that the AAC will then be a good fit? Tenn's experience would say not, because while CHW is no Pat Summitt, I think most would agree that the SEC is still a more appropriate place for the Lady Vols than an AAC-level conference. Does anyone think Geno is any more, or less, likely to step down sooner now that they're in the AAC? |
Geno really has nothing to do with their conference placement IMO. If the football program can get on a level with the more "powerful" football schools in the conference (USF, Cincinnati, UCF) then I believe their fan base and market segments will lead them to a bigger conference.
But until the football program succeeds, they are in the AAC with no hope of leaving.
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014 Posts: 3511
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Posted: 01/20/18 1:21 pm ::: |
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No, but Geno has a lot to do with how well UConn WBB fits competitively into any given conference.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012 Posts: 5423
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Posted: 01/20/18 2:53 pm ::: |
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dtsnms wrote: |
FrozenLVFan wrote: |
The Geno comment was a bit snarky, but it does bring up an interesting point. Will UConn basketball decline enough after Geno's retirement that the AAC will then be a good fit? Tenn's experience would say not, because while CHW is no Pat Summitt, I think most would agree that the SEC is still a more appropriate place for the Lady Vols than an AAC-level conference. Does anyone think Geno is any more, or less, likely to step down sooner now that they're in the AAC? |
Geno really has nothing to do with their conference placement IMO. If the football program can get on a level with the more "powerful" football schools in the conference (USF, Cincinnati, UCF) then I believe their fan base and market segments will lead them to a bigger conference.
But until the football program succeeds, they are in the AAC with no hope of leaving. |
The success of the football program will be determined not by it's W-L record but by it's TV ratings. The hopes of UConn lie more in the retirement of Belechek and the NE Patriots sinking to the mediocre level of the Giants and Jets. The Northeast is pro football territory. For decades the south didn't have even one pro football team and a huge allegiance was forged between the people and their college football teams. I'd wager that there are still stonger ties in the Sunshine state to Florida and Florida State than to the Jaguars. College football is all about TV $$$. If TV can get top money from advertisers when your team is on TV, your team will find it's way to a major conference.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7822 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 01/20/18 6:31 pm ::: Re: UConn should go Independent in WCBB |
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Ladyvol777 wrote: |
GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I don't know if AAC rules would enable or prohibit it, but everyone would be better off if UConn's women's basketball team were to resign from the AAC and become an independent team.
I don't know that any basketball teams are independent at present, but there have been several independents in basketball and football (and maybe other sports) in prior decades, and there have been several schools that have different sports in different conferences.
UConn and it's fans would be better off. UConn could schedule a more competitive and interesting slate of regular season games without being anchored to the 11 other AAC schools that offer no competition and that are unlikely ever to do so in the foreseeable future. UConn would also be able to renew games with traditional rivals in the local northeast, to which its fans can travel by car or bus, such as Rutgers and Villanova.
The AAC would be better off. One can imagine that every other AAC women's basketball team would jump for joy at the prospect of having a real shot at a conference title. Without UConn, the conference could evolve into a very competive one.
TV coverage would be better off. If UConn could schedule a strong schedule made up primarily of top 25 schools, there would be a greater number of strong games available for the TV networks.
The sport would be better off. This follows from the benefits to UConn, the AAC and TV. In addition, UConn's independence would offer additional chances to defeat UConn throughout the season, or at least to prepare for facing UConn again in the NCAA tournament, and to make the sport seem less fatalistic.
WCBB is basically a money loser at almost every school, so I'm not sure whether UConn's going independent would have any significant financial effects on any school or conference. Football seems to be the prime financial driver of just about everything, followed by men's basketball, which would be unaffected in the AAC. |
After Geno retires UCONN will be a has been. |
I wouldn’t go that far, but i do think tere will be a significant decline. Nonetheless, I don’t think any of their teams belong in the AAC...and that includes MBB and football. They need to be in a P5 and if they can’t find one, maybe the NCAA should step in and assign them to one Now that would be novel, wouldn’t it?
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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RavenDog
Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Posts: 6878 Location: Home
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Posted: 01/20/18 7:27 pm ::: |
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...Comment retracted.
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CBiebel
Joined: 23 Dec 2004 Posts: 1055 Location: PA
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Posted: 01/21/18 2:34 am ::: |
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I can tell you as someone from a school who was independent as a basketball program (at least on the Men's side), I can say that nowadays this is a lot harder than it was in the past.
Keep in mind that while ND's Men's Basketball program was independent (Until 1994-95), ND's Women's team was in a conference going back to before McGraw was coach.
In Football, it's possible if you are a "name" program (see ND), but that's because it's only a schedule of 12 games, conference championships aren't requirements for playoff spots, and ND was able to negotiate with the ACC for access to minor bowls. Plus now ND's schedule is about 2/3 full between traditional opponents and the ACC teams that are part of their deal.
However, in Basketball, you're dealing with a schedule of about 27 or so games, and filling up the spots later in the conference season is not easy. Many teams won't want to throw in a nonconference game in February. Having a conference that sets up 16-18 games makes scheduling [b]a lot[/b] easier.
Plus, the conference tournaments have been very important for NCAA bids. Having a few more games at the end can help a team get in and the "glory" of playing in that tournament helps in recruiting.
Now, the latter part might not affect UConn Women's Basketball, but the former part might. Could UConn schedule 27 games as an independent? I know Miami Baseball was able to fill a schedule as an independent back when they were in the Big East (Yes, they were independent in Baseball back then and not in the Big East), but that's a different sport, and I'm not sure the various mechanisms of college baseball scheduling, so it might not apply here.
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CBiebel
Joined: 23 Dec 2004 Posts: 1055 Location: PA
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CBiebel
Joined: 23 Dec 2004 Posts: 1055 Location: PA
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Posted: 01/21/18 2:43 am ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
I believe the NCAA 'outlawed' independent a few years back and told all the independents they needed to join a conference. (Not positive about this but maybe someone else knows)
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It's not outlawed as far as I know. It's just that the way it's set up, it's extremely hard to go independent in basketball.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8225 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 01/21/18 2:48 am ::: |
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RavenDog wrote: |
...Comment retracted. |
Why? It was sarcastic and amusing. This all just entertainment, isn't it? Sheesh, I hope no one takes women's basketball or RebKell seriously. It's not like they're wilderness canoeing or bushcraftusa.com. |
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 Posts: 2819 Location: Indiana
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Posted: 01/21/18 11:30 am ::: |
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CBiebel wrote: |
myrtle wrote: |
I believe the NCAA 'outlawed' independent a few years back and told all the independents they needed to join a conference. (Not positive about this but maybe someone else knows)
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It's not outlawed as far as I know. It's just that the way it's set up, it's extremely hard to go independent in basketball. |
Not to mention I would imagine the AAC would boot all of UConn's other sports out of the league. UConn would then need to find a home for a not so good FBS football team along with all their other sports. Not sure many leagues would jump at adding a basketball-less UConn. I mean, what would that really bring to that league?
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TotalCardinalMove
Joined: 13 Oct 2013 Posts: 1466
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Posted: 01/21/18 12:02 pm ::: |
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Women’s basketball is frankly irrelevant to conference placements. As stated before, until UConn’s football team starts succeeding, they are stuck where they are. And even if football did improve, how likely is it for them to receive an invite to the ACC or Big10?
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Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012 Posts: 4040
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Posted: 01/21/18 12:24 pm ::: |
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purduefanatic wrote: |
CBiebel wrote: |
myrtle wrote: |
I believe the NCAA 'outlawed' independent a few years back and told all the independents they needed to join a conference. (Not positive about this but maybe someone else knows)
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It's not outlawed as far as I know. It's just that the way it's set up, it's extremely hard to go independent in basketball. |
Not to mention I would imagine the AAC would boot all of UConn's other sports out of the league. UConn would then need to find a home for a not so good FBS football team along with all their other sports. Not sure many leagues would jump at adding a basketball-less UConn. I mean, what would that really bring to that league? |
But why would they do that? As TotalCardinalMove suggests, WBB is pretty irrelevant to most colleges. Maybe the other AAC teams would be happy if UConn would make the move. As far as all the games that UConn would have to schedule, maybe they could do something like Notre Dame football does, where they have a partial conference schedule, which would leave fewer nonconference games to schedule. Notre Dame plays 5 ACC opponents a season. UConn could do something where they play only ~10 AAC games a season (vs. the present 16 games), always playing USF, Temple and/or Cincinnati (chosen for geographical and prior conference relationships) and rotating through a schedule with the other teams.
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CBiebel
Joined: 23 Dec 2004 Posts: 1055 Location: PA
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Posted: 01/21/18 1:16 pm ::: |
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GlennMacGrady wrote: |
RavenDog wrote: |
...Comment retracted. |
Why? It was sarcastic and amusing. This all just entertainment, isn't it? Sheesh, I hope no one takes women's basketball or RebKell seriously. It's not like they're wilderness canoeing or bushcraftusa.com. |
Edited because I originally misunderstood the above commentary.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7822 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 01/21/18 1:41 pm ::: |
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Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
purduefanatic wrote: |
CBiebel wrote: |
myrtle wrote: |
I believe the NCAA 'outlawed' independent a few years back and told all the independents they needed to join a conference. (Not positive about this but maybe someone else knows)
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It's not outlawed as far as I know. It's just that the way it's set up, it's extremely hard to go independent in basketball. |
Not to mention I would imagine the AAC would boot all of UConn's other sports out of the league. UConn would then need to find a home for a not so good FBS football team along with all their other sports. Not sure many leagues would jump at adding a basketball-less UConn. I mean, what would that really bring to that league? |
But why would they do that? As TotalCardinalMove suggests, WBB is pretty irrelevant to most colleges. Maybe the other AAC teams would be happy if UConn would make the move. As far as all the games that UConn would have to schedule, maybe they could do something like Notre Dame football does, where they have a partial conference schedule, which would leave fewer nonconference games to schedule. Notre Dame plays 5 ACC opponents a season. UConn could do something where they play only ~10 AAC games a season (vs. the present 16 games), always playing USF, Temple and/or Cincinnati (chosen for geographical and prior conference relationships) and rotating through a schedule with the other teams. |
I bet the AAC would willingly make a trade for Boston College. BC doesn't belong in the ACC in any way, shape, or form. It would fit right into the AAC's scheme of things. and UConn would fit pretty neatly into the lower half of the ACC for many sports and the upper half for some.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8225 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 01/21/18 2:02 pm ::: |
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CBiebel wrote: |
GlennMacGrady wrote: |
RavenDog wrote: |
...Comment retracted. |
Why? It was sarcastic and amusing. This all just entertainment, isn't it? Sheesh, I hope no one takes women's basketball or RebKell seriously. It's not like they're wilderness canoeing or bushcraftusa.com. |
Edited because I originally misunderstood the above commentary. |
I'm confused. Are you RavenDog too? |
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 Posts: 2819 Location: Indiana
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Posted: 01/21/18 4:50 pm ::: |
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Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
purduefanatic wrote: |
CBiebel wrote: |
myrtle wrote: |
I believe the NCAA 'outlawed' independent a few years back and told all the independents they needed to join a conference. (Not positive about this but maybe someone else knows)
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It's not outlawed as far as I know. It's just that the way it's set up, it's extremely hard to go independent in basketball. |
Not to mention I would imagine the AAC would boot all of UConn's other sports out of the league. UConn would then need to find a home for a not so good FBS football team along with all their other sports. Not sure many leagues would jump at adding a basketball-less UConn. I mean, what would that really bring to that league? |
But why would they do that? As TotalCardinalMove suggests, WBB is pretty irrelevant to most colleges. Maybe the other AAC teams would be happy if UConn would make the move. As far as all the games that UConn would have to schedule, maybe they could do something like Notre Dame football does, where they have a partial conference schedule, which would leave fewer nonconference games to schedule. Notre Dame plays 5 ACC opponents a season. UConn could do something where they play only ~10 AAC games a season (vs. the present 16 games), always playing USF, Temple and/or Cincinnati (chosen for geographical and prior conference relationships) and rotating through a schedule with the other teams. |
It was mentioned all basketball, meaning both men's and women's. With a crappy football program and no basketball teams, again, what does UConn bring to the table that would excite any conference?
When you remove those 3 sports from the equation, UConn is a mouth to feed that isn't really bringing much money to the table. That is why they would get booted if basketball went independent.
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Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012 Posts: 4040
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Posted: 01/21/18 5:28 pm ::: |
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purduefanatic wrote: |
Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
purduefanatic wrote: |
CBiebel wrote: |
myrtle wrote: |
I believe the NCAA 'outlawed' independent a few years back and told all the independents they needed to join a conference. (Not positive about this but maybe someone else knows)
|
It's not outlawed as far as I know. It's just that the way it's set up, it's extremely hard to go independent in basketball. |
Not to mention I would imagine the AAC would boot all of UConn's other sports out of the league. UConn would then need to find a home for a not so good FBS football team along with all their other sports. Not sure many leagues would jump at adding a basketball-less UConn. I mean, what would that really bring to that league? |
But why would they do that? As TotalCardinalMove suggests, WBB is pretty irrelevant to most colleges. Maybe the other AAC teams would be happy if UConn would make the move. As far as all the games that UConn would have to schedule, maybe they could do something like Notre Dame football does, where they have a partial conference schedule, which would leave fewer nonconference games to schedule. Notre Dame plays 5 ACC opponents a season. UConn could do something where they play only ~10 AAC games a season (vs. the present 16 games), always playing USF, Temple and/or Cincinnati (chosen for geographical and prior conference relationships) and rotating through a schedule with the other teams. |
It was mentioned all basketball, meaning both men's and women's. With a crappy football program and no basketball teams, again, what does UConn bring to the table that would excite any conference?
When you remove those 3 sports from the equation, UConn is a mouth to feed that isn't really bringing much money to the table. That is why they would get booted if basketball went independent. |
Sorry, but I thought we were talking about just WBB, as the OP suggested when he wrote: "I don't know if AAC rules would enable or prohibit it, but everyone would be better off if UConn's women's basketball team were to resign from the AAC and become an independent team."
Who mentioned the men's basketball team becoming independent? They fit right in. The AAC men's teams are very good!
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