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The Schumer Shutdown
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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 1:51 pm    ::: The Schumer Shutdown Reply Reply with quote

Fits.



LIKE A GLOVE!


pilight



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 2:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pretty impressive that one Democrat can shut down the government when the Republicans hold the house and senate and White House.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 2:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Interesting to me that the key issue that Congress is focusing on is another amnesty for people here illegally, and most are unconcerned about doing anything with regard to enforcing workplace hiring rules such that more amnesties won't be called for in the future. Would like to see poor Americans become a key concern of Congress, but employers being able to hire Latin Americans illegally still has precedence. The Democrats also get voters from it all. The Republicans apparently think that someday the Latin Americans will switch parties or they would rather save money on illegal workers now, regardless of losing political races in the future.


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 2:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Pretty impressive that one Democrat can shut down the government when the Republicans hold the house and senate and White House.


That's just rhetorical nothingness and actually not how it works. If Republicans (or either party) were in control there would be no shut down. Same as the Dems. What makes the Schumer Shutdown so golden and this 'counterpoint' rhetoric so impotent isn't necessarily fact-based anyway. It's really comes down to the political tradecraft as represented in the branding effort. Schumer Shutdown wins that one going away. But... unfortunately... there's truth to it as well. I don't have to tell anyone how I feel about Mitch McConnell, he's a slimy turtle-headed worm. But he NAILED IT on the floor of the senate this morning. NAILED IT. Politically and TRUTHFULLY.

This is a SICK moment in American political history. We are going to shut the United States government down, Democrats are going to shut the government down, because we're not dealing with the needs of a group of illegal immigrants in the precise way in which the Democrats, which is to say their resistance minded progressive base, want those Dreamers dealt with. We're going to shut the government down because of a disagreement about dealing with under a million illegal immigrants. That's madness. And political poison. And the devil is in the details. It doesn't even come down to what we're going to do with the Dreamers. It comes down to the fact that that BECAUSE Trump said some unacceptable shit the progressive base and the Democrats THINK they can get a DACA deal with little or no border security. There have been protests BY Dreamers, nasty protests against Nancy Pelosi, wherein in Dreamers protested ANY DACA deal that included border security or funding for a wall.

Shocked

That is some batshit crazy shit. And even Nancy Pelosi was freaked and pissed.

This is what this is all about. No attaching much in the way of border security to a DACA bill. Let's shut down the fucking government. For illegal immigrants. So we don't dare add to the border fencing or wall or anything. Because Trump said some countries are shitholes.

You couldn't make this shit up.

You look at this Trump voters NYTimes letter feature and read those perspectives, plus a lot of the comments to those letters from Trump voters, watch the CNN report where they interview some Trump voters... you look at all this shit and (okay, I'll stop saying YOU) 'I' really am afraid we are at a political breaking point where enough FRESH people are going to turn on the Democrats and the agenda they are advocating to MORE than make up for people who are drifting away from Trump. Trump is a half a madman. And the other half is an idiot. But the Resistance and fighting him on border security is an ongoing act of mass political suicide.


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 3:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Trump and Schumer are meeting at the White House. Hopefully they are alone. Please God let them be alone. Laughing I don't like either one of them but on some level I do believe if left to themselves they will make a deal.


justintyme



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 3:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sure. It's the Democrats' fault. That is beyond silly.

The simple truth is that the Republicans should not expect Democratic votes if they include things that are unpalatable to the Democrats. When you have the numbers to not require a single Democrat to vote on your bill, and you can't get it done, you can't blame the other party. Well, you can, but it is eyeroll worthy bullshit.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 3:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Gee - haven't I seen this movie before.


Queenie



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 4:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Sure. It's the Democrats' fault. That is beyond silly.

The simple truth is that the Republicans should not expect Democratic votes if they include things that are unpalatable to the Democrats. When you have the numbers to not require a single Democrat to vote on your bill, and you can't get it done, you can't blame the other party. Well, you can, but it is eyeroll worthy bullshit.


Co-signed. Republican House, Republican Senate, Republican President, and somehow it's the Democrats' fault? For fucking serious? We can't even get shit done when we *do* have power, and these guys think we can get shit done when we don't?

Also, more than a few Democrats are also making this about CHIP, not just DACA/DREAMers.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 5:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

lol. Pretty much the reality is one party will rarely be able to prevent the other party from shutting down the gov. Plus people can’t imagine that the Republicans, who are, as you guys are pointing out, in control of the exec branch and both houses of Congress, are shutting the gov down themselves. It doesn’t make sense as a picture. Optically. Quinippiac poll says more Americans will blame the Dems. It’s pretty simple. Dems want a clean DACA bill with no border security because their base does not want them to give any concession to Trump, who said something about some countries being shitholes. What am I getting wrong here. Teach me.


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 5:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

New CNN numbers. Conducted between Jan 14-18.

Who would be responsible for a government shutdown?

31% Dems
26% Repugs
21% Trumpilicious


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 5:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CNN’s Dana Bash, right now.

“The other thing is that the dynamic among Democrats right now is push, push, push, resist, resist, resist. Use this moment of leverage to get what they want because the feeling is that that’s the mood in the Democratic base.”


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 5:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dana Bash continues.

“One of the things that really surprised me about our brand new poll today is that among Democrats — just Democrats were asked, which is more important, avoiding a shut down or continuing DACA? [the results were] 42% and 49% [respectively] They’re weren’t that different and I wonder if Democrats are misreading the base.”


justintyme



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 6:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
New CNN numbers. Conducted between Jan 14-18.

Who would be responsible for a government shutdown?

31% Dems
26% Repugs
21% Trumpilicious

In other words, only 31% would blame the Democrats. That is a very low number for this sort of thing. For the vast majority that doesn't blame the Dems, it seems they are split on who to blame.

Either way it is good news for the Dems. Why negotiate against themselves when the Republicans will look like the fools who can't govern? The narrative will go "give the government to the Republicans and it all goes to shit". The more the Republican government looks like the dumpster fire it is, the better for the Dems in 2018 and 2020. If the Republicans want Democratic votes, they need to be willing to do it on Democratic terms.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 7:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That’s a kind perspective on those numbers. You can’t put the Republicans and Trump together and say there’s more people blaming them. The respondents had distinct choices of who to blame. Trump faired the best and the Dems did the worst. End of story.


justintyme



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 7:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
That’s a kind perspective on those numbers. You can’t put the Republicans and Trump together and say there’s more people blaming them. The respondents had distinct choices of who to blame. Trump faired the best and the Dems did the worst. End of story.

No. By nature Trump and the Republicans were going to split votes. The idea that Americans are going to blame the minority party yhat controls zero of the government is not grounded in reality. They see the Republicans in control. The blame the Republicans or Trump. 31% basically represents the hardcore Republican base who blame the Dems.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 7:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We’ll see. Cool


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 7:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

nm


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 7:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
That’s a kind perspective on those numbers. You can’t put the Republicans and Trump together and say there’s more people blaming them. The respondents had distinct choices of who to blame. Trump faired the best and the Dems did the worst. End of story.


Of course you put the two together and say more people blame the GOP than the Democrats. Trump is the GOP. He is the leader of the party. They are one and the same.


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 8:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Trump came out the least to blame for the shutdown in a CNN poll. Mark it up any way you want.


justintyme



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 9:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Trump came out the least to blame for the shutdown in a CNN poll. Mark it up any way you want.

That is as it should be. The budget is on congress unless he is threatening to veto it. Which he's not. This falls squarely on the shoulders of congressional Republicans.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 9:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Trump came out the least to blame for the shutdown in a CNN poll. Mark it up any way you want.


Republicans take the most blame by a wide margin. Mark it up any way you want.


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 01/19/18 10:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
Trump came out the least to blame for the shutdown in a CNN poll. Mark it up any way you want.

That is as it should be. The budget is on congress unless he is threatening to veto it. Which he's not. This falls squarely on the shoulders of congressional Republicans.


Um. Congress? Yes. Congressional Republicans and NOT the Democrats? I don't believe there's a chance of that. Those polls show the Dems will get their share of the blame. This is more, IMO, going to come down to does the American people blame the president or congress. They're going to blame congress. But we're just arguing here about where the fallout might land for a shutdown. This is related, but this is what EVERYONE knows in Washington and it's said here by Rich Lowry on CNN. CNN is actually, for the first time in months, worth watching as something actually political is going down instead of the other never ending shit like Russia and all of that.

Rich Lowry: Your [Schumer] caucus is, if you're looking at it, objectively, forcing a shutdown of the government. Codifying DACA is definitely very popular. Shutting down the government to try to force the codification of DACA, as the CNN poll showed today, is not necessarily very popular etc.

And to this, I might add, Maggie Haberman was nodding in agreement. WHO ARE YOU to disagree if Maggie Haberman was nodding in agreement. Think about that, Rebkellioristas.


justintyme



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PostPosted: 01/20/18 12:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Again, how is this on the Dems in any way? The Republicans couldn't get their shit in order so they went looking to the Dems to bail them out. The Dems told them exactly what their votes would cost: a clean DACA bill. That is all the Republicans needed to add and they would have their budget.

They couldn't do that, so why should the Dems bail out the Republicans? How is it the fault of the party that has no control over any part of the current federal government? If your party owns both houses and the presidency, governing is your responsibility and any failures in doing so (like a government shutdown) belong solely to you and your party.

Think about it. What we are seeing here is unprecedented. Never has one party controled all of Washington and yet not be able to keep the government running.



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Howee



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PostPosted: 01/20/18 12:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And it's now official.

The Government is shut down.

We're. All. Gonna. Die.

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 01/20/18 10:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I went outside at midnight (9PM here) and yep, I could feel it in the air. “Shut down! We’re all shut down,” I said to myself. Then they came and brought me back inside and I had some delicious applesauce.


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