| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Ay Mate
Joined: 12 Nov 2016
Posts: 1280
Back to top |
 Posted: 01/19/18 8:16 am ::: |
Reply  |
|
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
And once again it's so obvious that the rest of the team freezes out Russell for the entire second half that the announcers are making jokes about filing missing persons reports.
Russell needs to get herself to the WNBA asap. |
Russell as always, disappears in games like she has her entire career with Tennessee. She’s barely WNBA material. I give her a few years in the league before she busts like other Tennessee bigs (Anosike comes to mind). Who ever pics her, it’ll be a waste of a draft pick.
She’s no better than she was last year and the year before. Way over hyped.
|
|
FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3516
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/19/18 8:22 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| linkster wrote: |
One of my favorite bloggers uses the phrases "high octane speculation" and I'll steal it to use here. Russell seems to start games like she's going to break Tenn's single game scoring records but lately her scoring disappears in the second half.
Tonight the announcers spoke endlessly about getting her the ball in the second half but frankly I have been reading that about her for all 4 years she has played. She also seems to have a hard time running down the floor in the second half, her strides looking short and awkward. I wonder if her feet are giving her problems. I say this because it reminds me of the play of the other Duke player to transfer to UConn, Brittany Hunter. She spent 2 years at UConn, averaging about 10 minutes/game. When on the floor she was outstanding at both ends, shooting about 60% and cleaning the boards. But her knees were bad and she couldn't play more than that due to the pain. Now I have no information that Russell's feet are bothering her but it wouldn't be unusual for a tall player who has had to have surgery on both feet that involved the placement of pins to continue to be troubled with pain. And Tenn has a history of keeping injuries under wraps. It would explain what is otherwise inexplicable, how such an effective and efficient scorer turns into a statue in the second halves of important games. |
I know nothing of foot injuries, but Russell always slows down considerably in the second half and is frequently out of position on both ends of the court. The rest of the team doesn't "freeze her out" so much as they throw the ball away trying to force it inside to her. IMHO, CHW needs to use Green much more to spell Russell. Green doesn't have the offensive skills that Russell does but she's more mobile, a better defender sans the shot-blocking ability, and a tenacious rebounder. And Green shouldn't be in there with Hayes and Dunbar...Tenn has shown time and again that they stink up the place with only 2 starters on the floor, which happened last night in the second quarter when their death spiral began.
|
|
Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
Posts: 4040
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/19/18 9:26 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
One of my favorite bloggers uses the phrases "high octane speculation" and I'll steal it to use here. Russell seems to start games like she's going to break Tenn's single game scoring records but lately her scoring disappears in the second half.
Tonight the announcers spoke endlessly about getting her the ball in the second half but frankly I have been reading that about her for all 4 years she has played. She also seems to have a hard time running down the floor in the second half, her strides looking short and awkward. I wonder if her feet are giving her problems. I say this because it reminds me of the play of the other Duke player to transfer to UConn, Brittany Hunter. She spent 2 years at UConn, averaging about 10 minutes/game. When on the floor she was outstanding at both ends, shooting about 60% and cleaning the boards. But her knees were bad and she couldn't play more than that due to the pain. Now I have no information that Russell's feet are bothering her but it wouldn't be unusual for a tall player who has had to have surgery on both feet that involved the placement of pins to continue to be troubled with pain. And Tenn has a history of keeping injuries under wraps. It would explain what is otherwise inexplicable, how such an effective and efficient scorer turns into a statue in the second halves of important games. |
I know nothing of foot injuries, but Russell always slows down considerably in the second half and is frequently out of position on both ends of the court. The rest of the team doesn't "freeze her out" so much as they throw the ball away trying to force it inside to her. IMHO, CHW needs to use Green much more to spell Russell. Green doesn't have the offensive skills that Russell does but she's more mobile, a better defender sans the shot-blocking ability, and a tenacious rebounder. And Green shouldn't be in there with Hayes and Dunbar...Tenn has shown time and again that they stink up the place with only 2 starters on the floor, which happened last night in the second quarter when their death spiral began. |
I think that Russell has been unfairly maligned in this thread. I don't think she's a superstar, but she is a very solid post. She was killing Notre Dame early and then Notre Dame adjusted their defense to stop her, committing at least 2 defenders on her from then on out. That SHOULD have freed up other options for the LV's offense, but they just kept forcing the ball into her, mostly resulting in turnovers. Could she have expended more energy getting great position inside? Yes. Perhaps spelling her with Green would have helped there.
I think the real problem is that Holly insisted on going to what worked earlier in the game (those glorious first 23 minutes) despite the fact that Muffet had changed what she was doing defensively.
Notre Dame has some of the same problems when Turner is available. They try SO hard to get her the ball that they become predictable and the defense collapses on Turner, leading to lots of turnovers. Holly really needed a plan B once Muffet changed up the defense. Did Holly have a back-up plan?
|
|
Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
Posts: 4040
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/19/18 10:46 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Highlight video produced by Notre Dame (only contains good plays by ND, so there are very few plays from the first half): https://youtu.be/PY39p0ZyqL0
|
|
Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
Posts: 4040
Back to top |
|
joetro
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 334
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/19/18 11:09 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Watching Holly's conference I was stunned by the number of times she said something like "I don't have an answer for that" or "I don't know". Just seemed a bit frozen as to what to do.
I truly hope ND/TENN keeps this series up, because I will enjoy seeing Westbrook play for the losing team, just like I enjoy seeing ND beat Duke with Greenwell on the team.
|
|
Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
Posts: 4040
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/19/18 11:34 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| joetro wrote: |
Watching Holly's conference I was stunned by the number of times she said something like "I don't have an answer for that" or "I don't know". Just seemed a bit frozen as to what to do.
I truly hope ND/TENN keeps this series up, because I will enjoy seeing Westbrook play for the losing team, just like I enjoy seeing ND beat Duke with Greenwell on the team. |
This is a common refrain from Holly and drives LV fans crazy. Perhaps Holly is just an example of the Peter Principle. Maybe she is a great assistant coach that cannot handle all the juggling of the responsibilities that come with being the head coach. Perhaps she is not a good disciplinarian. Maybe she was the good cop to Pat's bad cop and she cannot switch roles.
|
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/19/18 11:48 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
One of my favorite bloggers uses the phrases "high octane speculation" and I'll steal it to use here. Russell seems to start games like she's going to break Tenn's single game scoring records but lately her scoring disappears in the second half.
Tonight the announcers spoke endlessly about getting her the ball in the second half but frankly I have been reading that about her for all 4 years she has played. She also seems to have a hard time running down the floor in the second half, her strides looking short and awkward. I wonder if her feet are giving her problems. I say this because it reminds me of the play of the other Duke player to transfer to UConn, Brittany Hunter. She spent 2 years at UConn, averaging about 10 minutes/game. When on the floor she was outstanding at both ends, shooting about 60% and cleaning the boards. But her knees were bad and she couldn't play more than that due to the pain. Now I have no information that Russell's feet are bothering her but it wouldn't be unusual for a tall player who has had to have surgery on both feet that involved the placement of pins to continue to be troubled with pain. And Tenn has a history of keeping injuries under wraps. It would explain what is otherwise inexplicable, how such an effective and efficient scorer turns into a statue in the second halves of important games. |
I know nothing of foot injuries, but Russell always slows down considerably in the second half and is frequently out of position on both ends of the court. The rest of the team doesn't "freeze her out" so much as they throw the ball away trying to force it inside to her. IMHO, CHW needs to use Green much more to spell Russell. Green doesn't have the offensive skills that Russell does but she's more mobile, a better defender sans the shot-blocking ability, and a tenacious rebounder. And Green shouldn't be in there with Hayes and Dunbar...Tenn has shown time and again that they stink up the place with only 2 starters on the floor, which happened last night in the second quarter when their death spiral began. |
Notre Dame has some of the same problems when Turner is available. They try SO hard to get her the ball that they become predictable and the defense collapses on Turner, leading to lots of turnovers. Holly really needed a plan B once Muffet changed up the defense. Did Holly have a back-up plan? |
That's because neither Russell nor Turner have a game more than 6 ft out, unless you count Turner starting at the FT line for an alley-oop pass.
Based upon seeing HW w/ a look of bewilderment so many times over the last few years, it's doubtful back-up plans come easy to her.
Russell is one of those good players that should be better. Similar (not in talent level) to DeShields, but for different reasons. They usually leaving you wanting more.
_________________
Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/19/18 1:00 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| linkster wrote: |
Fatigue on the part of Tenn played a huge part of the late game. When Mabrey can take Westbrook off the dribble for a layup it says something about Westbrook's conditioning. And how many times did Ogunbowale drive right through the Tenn zone without any trouble?
|
Mental fatigue perhaps. Watching the game a second time it become obvious that, especially when ND tied, but even before that in the 4th Q as ND was charging, Tenn basically quit while ND players were incredibly energized. Once the lead got into single digits, even though they were still ahead, Tenn players played almost like they considered the outcome inevitable. I don't think it was physical fatigue or conditioning.
In the Louisville game, the ND players were the ones who looked defeated and exhausted. In this game, as they got closer, they got even more motivated and fired up. But in the last 8 minutes or so, with the possible exception of Westbrook, most of the Tenn team just looked like they were wearing cement boots and didn't even try to stop Ogunbowale and Young and Mabrey from driving largely uncontested to the rim.
BTW, I think Russell is often out of position out of resignation that she's not part of the play. Lawson made the comment in the 4th Q that basically whoever happened to have the ball in her hands at half court for Tenn acted like it was her responsibility to take the shot. Nobody was even looking to pass. On one play I watched Russell fighting for position in the paint and pointing to herself to signal she wanted the ball, but when it became obvious that the ball handler (Narid iirc) had every intention of shooting it herself, she took a few step out above the key in order to get out of Narid's way on her drive. So if you don't see the whole motion, it just looks like Russell being in the wrong place, but in actually she was trying to make the best of a bad situation and give Narid the best chance to penetrate. (Narid turned it over I seem to recall).
|
|
calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 5155
Location: Carson City
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/19/18 1:10 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Conway Gamecock wrote: |
| adamj95 wrote: |
| Tennessee is playing great basketball. How much credit does Holly Warlick get for the improvement this season? |
She should get all of it. Everything. Every bit........ |
I know she is in as a player, but maybe she should be removed from the WBHOF.
|
|
Davis4632
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 861
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/19/18 1:26 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| cthskzfn wrote: |
| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
One of my favorite bloggers uses the phrases "high octane speculation" and I'll steal it to use here. Russell seems to start games like she's going to break Tenn's single game scoring records but lately her scoring disappears in the second half.
Tonight the announcers spoke endlessly about getting her the ball in the second half but frankly I have been reading that about her for all 4 years she has played. She also seems to have a hard time running down the floor in the second half, her strides looking short and awkward. I wonder if her feet are giving her problems. I say this because it reminds me of the play of the other Duke player to transfer to UConn, Brittany Hunter. She spent 2 years at UConn, averaging about 10 minutes/game. When on the floor she was outstanding at both ends, shooting about 60% and cleaning the boards. But her knees were bad and she couldn't play more than that due to the pain. Now I have no information that Russell's feet are bothering her but it wouldn't be unusual for a tall player who has had to have surgery on both feet that involved the placement of pins to continue to be troubled with pain. And Tenn has a history of keeping injuries under wraps. It would explain what is otherwise inexplicable, how such an effective and efficient scorer turns into a statue in the second halves of important games. |
I know nothing of foot injuries, but Russell always slows down considerably in the second half and is frequently out of position on both ends of the court. The rest of the team doesn't "freeze her out" so much as they throw the ball away trying to force it inside to her. IMHO, CHW needs to use Green much more to spell Russell. Green doesn't have the offensive skills that Russell does but she's more mobile, a better defender sans the shot-blocking ability, and a tenacious rebounder. And Green shouldn't be in there with Hayes and Dunbar...Tenn has shown time and again that they stink up the place with only 2 starters on the floor, which happened last night in the second quarter when their death spiral began. |
Notre Dame has some of the same problems when Turner is available. They try SO hard to get her the ball that they become predictable and the defense collapses on Turner, leading to lots of turnovers. Holly really needed a plan B once Muffet changed up the defense. Did Holly have a back-up plan? |
That's because neither Russell nor Turner have a game more than 6 ft out, unless you count Turner starting at the FT line for an alley-oop pass.
Based upon seeing HW w/ a look of bewilderment so many times over the last few years, it's doubtful back-up plans come easy to her.
Russell is one of those good players that should be better. Similar (not in talent level) to DeShields, but for different reasons. They usually leaving you wanting more. |
Why chooses not to Holly to run the pick and roll for Russell and iso plays for Nared and the taller guards like Westbrook?
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/19/18 1:33 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Why not just lob it to her? With Russell's long reach in addition to her height, nobody last night was going to block or intercept a properly thrown lob pass over the defenders, even if ND was fronting her. Let her roll to the basket and lob it up to her near the rim. Not many teams could defend that.
Tenn is hardly unique. It used to drive me nuts watching how ill used Griner was at Baylor too.
|
|
summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7845
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Back to top |
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8227
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/19/18 2:45 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Geno said about the same exasperated things as Holly if you watch his post-game presser. His huddles are useless, no messages are ever sent or received, he doesn't bother with sending messages anymore because the team won't pay attention to them and do whatever they want, and practices have been lousy since October. He only wins because he has more All Americans than anyone else, who play really well when and if they feel like it.
Now as to this continued whining about Notre Dame's players missing due to injuries, I think that's been counterbalanced by unexpected gifts from god. Thompson was a gift from god -- and why didn't she spend her fifth year at Stanford, anyway? Shepard, who may be better than Turner, was not only a gift from god but a legally manipulated gift from the NCAA transfer waiver gods. |
|
myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/19/18 3:49 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Why not just lob it to her? With Russell's long reach in addition to her height, nobody last night was going to block or intercept a properly thrown lob pass over the defenders, even if ND was fronting her. Let her roll to the basket and lob it up to her near the rim. Not many teams could defend that.
Tenn is hardly unique. It used to drive me nuts watching how ill used Griner was at Baylor too. |
I don't think Russell has any 'lift' whatsoever which helps shorter players front or at least make the lob a lot riskier than might appear at first. And it looked like whenever Tenn attempted to get the ball in to her, it often resulted in TOs. Some of that is simply bad passing, or telegraphing passes but some has to do with her positioning as well. I think Tenn depends too much on driving. If the drive is stopped and they kick out, it's a crap shoot as far as whether or not the outside player can actually make a shot. If they drive and manage to get it to Russell, that tends to work a bit better. But opponents can pretty much predict what is coming so if they have the wherewithal to stop it, they can. Tenn does seem to have a little more in the way of outside shooting threat than they have had, which helps. Nared would be so much more effective if she could make the outside shot!
_________________
For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
|
|
myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/19/18 4:00 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Now as to this continued whining about Notre Dame's players missing due to injuries, I think that's been counterbalanced by unexpected gifts from god. Thompson was a gift from god -- and why didn't she spend her fifth year at Stanford, anyway? |
But the gift got withdrawn thru injury. She and Tara didn't see eye to eye about what her role should be with the trees. She wanted to play me-ball or a nicer way of saying it, hero ball, and Tara wants team players. Of course she found that Muffet wants the same thing but I think it's good that she got to experience the change in venue. Kinda like Diamond leaving UT, I think Stanford was just as well off without her. But hopefully she's gotten to complete her education. I'm not sure, but suspect she can't redshirt this year so will be done?
_________________
For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
|
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8227
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/19/18 5:09 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| myrtle wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Now as to this continued whining about Notre Dame's players missing due to injuries, I think that's been counterbalanced by unexpected gifts from god. Thompson was a gift from god -- and why didn't she spend her fifth year at Stanford, anyway? |
But the gift got withdrawn thru injury. She and Tara didn't see eye to eye about what her role should be with the trees. She wanted to play me-ball or a nicer way of saying it, hero ball, and Tara wants team players. Of course she found that Muffet wants the same thing but I think it's good that she got to experience the change in venue. Kinda like Diamond leaving UT, I think Stanford was just as well off without her. But hopefully she's gotten to complete her education. I'm not sure, but suspect she can't redshirt this year so will be done? |
Right, Thompson was a net gain for Notre Dame. She was a gift from god who then got injured, but they got 14 games out of her. I believe that's too many to qualify for another season under the medical hardship rule.
The center position is a net neutral because the loss of Turner is balanced very closely by the gift of Shepard from god.
So, ND's effective net losses are Johnson, a three-year bench player with a career average of about 3 PPG, and Vaughn, an unproven freshman, who did play six games. Vaughn should be eligible for a medical redshirt. Although Johnson may be a better ball handler, Mabrey is surely a better all-around player to have on the court.
Besides, the Bombshell at Purcell proved that the Irish have a swell of a, hell of a chance to overcome any basketball death knell without a schnell bench belle. |
|
joetro
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 334
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/19/18 5:30 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| For all the ACL focus, it's worth noting that three other players (Young, Westbeld and Shepard) have been nursing injuries for weeks and in one case since last season.
|
|
Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
Posts: 4040
Back to top |
| Posted: 01/19/18 5:32 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Now as to this continued whining about Notre Dame's players missing due to injuries, I think that's been counterbalanced by unexpected gifts from god. Thompson was a gift from god -- and why didn't she spend her fifth year at Stanford, anyway? |
But the gift got withdrawn thru injury. She and Tara didn't see eye to eye about what her role should be with the trees. She wanted to play me-ball or a nicer way of saying it, hero ball, and Tara wants team players. Of course she found that Muffet wants the same thing but I think it's good that she got to experience the change in venue. Kinda like Diamond leaving UT, I think Stanford was just as well off without her. But hopefully she's gotten to complete her education. I'm not sure, but suspect she can't redshirt this year so will be done? |
Right, Thompson was a net gain for Notre Dame. She was a gift from god who then got injured, but they got 14 games out of her. I believe that's too many to qualify for another season under the medical hardship rule.
The center position is a net neutral because the loss of Turner is balanced very closely by the gift of Shepard from god.
So, ND's effective net losses are Johnson, a three-year bench player with a career average of about 3 PPG, and Vaughn, an unproven freshman, who did play six games. Vaughn should be eligible for a medical redshirt. Although Johnson may be a better ball handler, Mabrey is surely a better all-around player to have on the court.
Besides, the Bombshell at Purcell proved that the Irish have a swell of a, hell of a chance to overcome any basketball death knell without a schnell bench belle. |
Patberg never (publicly) stated the reason she decided to transfer from Notre Dame, but it was announced after a few months after Lili had committed to the Irish as a graduate student. Thus it's possible that Ali decided that with Lili coming in for this season, and hot shot Jenna Brown coming in the following year, that her playing time would be limited. She may have interpreted Muffet's pursuit of Lili as a negative assessment of Ali's future with the program. Thus that "gift" from heaven may not have been such a beneficial gift. Lili was injured early in the season and Jenna flipped to Stanford.
|
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
|
Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
Posts: 4040
Back to top |
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
|
Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
Posts: 4040
Back to top |
|
|
|
