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#9 Oregon at #14 UCLA - 1/7/18
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dinkytown



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 6:11 pm    ::: #9 Oregon at #14 UCLA - 1/7/18 Reply Reply with quote

8:00 PM ET
Pac 12 Network


An early Pac 12 showdown tonight in LA. A UCLA win would leave Arizona State the lone unbeaten in the conference.


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PostPosted: 01/07/18 8:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

UCLA scoreless 4 minutes in



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 8:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

amazing how Mary can talk non-stop and say nothing about the game.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 8:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

exciting game considering it's 11-8 at the end of one quarter. Lots of up and down, but no finish.



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Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 8:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Laughing Man Ionescu really carries the ball.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 8:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

27-23 halftime. Oregon goes out to a lead, all their bigs get in foul trouble and UCLA makes a big comeback.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Laughing Man Ionescu really carries the ball.


She's having a shitty game, and seems like making bad decisions too.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

guess the East Coasters have gone to bed. It's really an entertaining game.



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Cazorla seems to be more of the PG this year than Ionescu


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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If basketball were merely running and jumping, ucla might go undefeated.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

UCLA got a good one with Dean. Really like her play.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
If basketball were merely running and jumping, ucla might go undefeated.


so true. They are really good at that. Not so good at putting the ball in the basket consistently. They also seem to get away with a lot of fouls. Billings with zero fouls is really absurd.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

3q: UCLA shooting 31, 25, 64 but the game is competitive and close.

Ionescu working on a triple -- nay, an octuple -- single.

Mary Murphy with incisive and entertaining analysis.
linkster



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's too bad Oregon has to play McGwire. She plays scared. Throws the ball away under pressure. No shot. Bad hands. No foot speed. Reminds me of Hamblin for OSU. decent against weaker teams but not ready for primetime.


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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Heberd walks alot.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Heberd walks alot.


so does Billings. They both have happy feet.



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linkster



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I thought that if a defender has their arms vertical and has position established that there is no foul if the shooter makes body contact and yet I've seen it called a foul several times today.

That must have been Billings' spastic clone I saw playing at Maples last week Rolling Eyes


myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ionescu needs to drive instead of settling for the long ball. She's shooting so poorly but good things happen when she drives.

I wonder how Gilden got so far in the doghouse. I thought she used to give them some good minutes but she seems glued to the bench. Not impressed with malley.



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
I thought that if a defender has their arms vertical and has position established that there is no foul if the shooter makes body contact and yet I've seen it called a foul several times today.



That has long been modus operandi for UCLA. Fling your body into defender and get the foul called. Seems to work.



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Cazorla and Ionescu dribble too much. Top defenses will turn Oregon over.

Who's better, Billings or Hebard?
myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Cazorla and Ionescu dribble too much. Top defenses will turn Oregon over.

Who's better, Billings or Hebard?


Hebard, she's a couple years younger and she's 2 or 3 inches taller too. Billings is like a lesser GloJo. I remember GloJO was pretty spastic and couldn't shoot for shit in college, so I guess there's hope for Billings.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Finally they get Maley out of there. She is just dead weight anyway.



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fancy_daniel



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
linkster wrote:
I thought that if a defender has their arms vertical and has position established that there is no foul if the shooter makes body contact and yet I've seen it called a foul several times today.



That has long been modus operandi for UCLA. Fling your body into defender and get the foul called. Seems to work.


Every veteran player does this. Kelsey Plum was notorious for this


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Cazorla and Ionescu dribble too much. Top defenses will turn Oregon over.

Who's better, Billings or Hebard?


Hebard, she's a couple years younger and she's 2 or 3 inches taller too. Billings is like a lesser GloJo. I remember GloJO was pretty spastic and couldn't shoot for shit in college, so I guess there's hope for Billings.


So, you're saying Billings will marry Griner?
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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Another pedestrian game by the triple double queen vs an "athletic" defense?!?



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 9:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've seen many lucky shots. Io gets a lucky assist.
myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 10:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I really thought UCLA would pull this one out. Surprised. Well congrats to Oregon.

Fun to watch a game like this, but heart attacks for fans on both sides.



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 10:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
I've seen many lucky shots. Io gets a lucky assist.



Lucky?? According to Mary Murphy, there might be one other player in all of wcb who could have made that pass.



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 10:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Definitely NOT Ionescu's best game. But somehow they pulled it out. Cazorla and Hebard both with really nice performances.



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 10:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
I've seen many lucky shots. Io gets a lucky assist.



Lucky?? According to Mary Murphy, there might be one other player in all of wcb who could have made that pass.


Mary meant only one other player out of 5000 in D1 could have been that lucky.
myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 10:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
I've seen many lucky shots. Io gets a lucky assist.



Lucky?? According to Mary Murphy, there might be one other player in all of wcb who could have made that pass.


She has made some pretty spectacular passes so I wouldn't discount it as totally luck.



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linkster



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 10:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

31% 24% 58%

UCLA shoots like shit.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 10:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
31% 24% 58%

UCLA shoots like shit.


As against Stanford, they couldn't get the ball inside nearly enough against a zone from their half court offense, they blew most of the layups they did get, and they are not that good from the arc. I suspect UCLA does a lot better when they play against teams they can rebound and run against.
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PostPosted: 01/07/18 10:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
31% 24% 58%

UCLA shoots like shit.


They've been known more for athleticism than for shooting prowess for quite some time. But they've been pretty successful with that formula. Realistically they may not lose another P12 game this year! IMO they're still the favorites to win the league.

They rely a lot on Canada to make something happen. And she does a pretty good job of it. They have some good underclass(wo)men and I'm wondering if they will be playing more team ball once Canada and Billings are off to try their skill in the W. I think a lot of teams rely so heavily on their seniors that they forget to work efficiently with the rest of the team, and sometimes it looks that way with UCLA.



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PostPosted: 01/07/18 11:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well darn, you guys. Darn darn darn.


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PostPosted: 01/08/18 10:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
I'm wondering if they will be playing more team ball once Canada and Billings are off to try their skill in the W.


Are they going to have a new coach next year?


ucbart



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PostPosted: 01/08/18 10:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
myrtle wrote:
I'm wondering if they will be playing more team ball once Canada and Billings are off to try their skill in the W.


Are they going to have a new coach next year?


Canada has nice talent, but basketball is a team game....and I've never once seen her play that way.


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PostPosted: 01/08/18 11:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Close's contract is said to be up in April. It will make for some interesting decisions in Westwood, as the mens soccer coach Salcedo is equally underachieving.

Close has had Canada and the #1 class for four years. If they're still not playing team ball and have no half court offense, Close isn't teaching correctly, her plays are too complicated or she doesn't have the respect of the team. Maybe all of them. She's had seven years at UCLA and four with this class. That's enough time and talent to demonstrate who you are as a coach.

I don't think UCLA and Close are the best fit, anyways. For both, it may be best to thank each other and walk away.


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PostPosted: 01/08/18 12:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Close seems like a really nice person, maybe too nice, which makes it hard to fire her. I think the players like her, the admin like her, the fans like her...as a person, if not as a coach. Hard decision to make there. And while we may think she underachieves, this team will be good enough to get into the ncaas and win a game or two...which will likely be enough to keep her employed.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/08/18 12:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Also Mary said something at one point in the game that I actually agreed with. UCLA misses having Korver as a kick out shooter.



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PostPosted: 01/08/18 12:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They didn't do that well with Korver as the kick out shooter either. They definitely miss her leadership and poise but it didn't change their results. Last year, they finished fourth in the Pac.

Olivier was nice, Mora was nice, Neuheisal was nice. Howland was not, Caldwell was not. So what.


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PostPosted: 01/08/18 12:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
linkster wrote:
31% 24% 58%

UCLA shoots like shit.


They've been known more for athleticism than for shooting prowess for quite some time. But they've been pretty successful with that formula. Realistically they may not lose another P12 game this year! IMO they're still the favorites to win the league.

They rely a lot on Canada to make something happen. And she does a pretty good job of it. They have some good underclass(wo)men and I'm wondering if they will be playing more team ball once Canada and Billings are off to try their skill in the W. I think a lot of teams rely so heavily on their seniors that they forget to work efficiently with the rest of the team, and sometimes it looks that way with UCLA.


____________

I can't be more in agreement. It is seeming this season that some of the players have been disappearing in these big match ups (excluding Baylor where everyone seemed to step up). Unfortunately, it also forces Billing and Canada to be hero's and go into crazy one-on-one situations.


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PostPosted: 01/08/18 12:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There's something about the way Billings plays w/ the ball that bugs me. It's like having no court vision or something.

Granted I've had limited views over her 3+ years, but it seems like she's too quick to try to score each time she touches the ball.

I of course defer to our resident PAC12 experts.



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PostPosted: 01/08/18 12:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
Close's contract is said to be up in April. It will make for some interesting decisions in Westwood, as the mens soccer coach Salcedo is equally underachieving.

Close has had Canada and the #1 class for four years. If they're still not playing team ball and have no half court offense, Close isn't teaching correctly, her plays are too complicated or she doesn't have the respect of the team. Maybe all of them. She's had seven years at UCLA and four with this class. That's enough time and talent to demonstrate who you are as a coach.

I don't think UCLA and Close are the best fit, anyways. For both, it may be best to thank each other and walk away.


I can agree with a lot you said. I've often wondered if Canada has had a bit of strained relationship with Close. I used to sit near her father her freshman year and I heard a lot of criticism about the coaching. And I know that Jordin mentioned all the people in her ear after her freshman year. I am glad she stuck it out though. Regardless of what happens, UCLA is a better program and I actually believe the criticism we're hearing is good because now, there are actual real expectations unlike before.

In terms of new coaches, I think it's very much throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Unlike in other sports, UCLA can't afford to get the very best coach so the situation would have to be get another assistant or go after a coach that has won at another level. It's all a crapshoot though. How many top assistants out there that have moved on to the head spot gone on to immediately take a program and turn it around? Only Jeff Walz comes to mind when he took Louisville to the Final Four pretty quickly in his tenure. So, even if the naysayers get what they want, the team goes through another transition and then rebuilding and then having issues with recruiting. I'm not sure that's the best idea.


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PostPosted: 01/08/18 1:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This isn't football where winning is all that matters, this is WCBB where, unfortunately being "nice" and liked is often at least as important and mediocrity is often good enough to keep your job forever.

My rhetorical question was intended to make the point that if they have the same coach I don't expect to see any meaningful improvement in their quality of play. She'd better kill it on the recruiting trail because success will continue to depend on the raw talent of her players, just as it does now.


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PostPosted: 01/08/18 1:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
There's something about the way Billings plays w/ the ball that bugs me. It's like having no court vision or something.

Granted I've had limited views over her 3+ years, but it seems like she's too quick to try to score each time she touches the ball.

I of course defer to our resident PAC12 experts.


I think you're on to something. I've noticed that she rushes more when facing bigger posts as I think she's closer to 6-2 versus an actual 6-4 so she tries to compensate with her athleticism. However, in the match-ups vs Oregon and Stanford, she's faced multiple posts that are her size or bigger and I think she's trying to do a bit too much.


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PostPosted: 01/08/18 1:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Billings has always been raw. She is better now than she was but there is only so much you can catch up on as a player and you cannot give someone an IQ, just look at this years Stanford team.

I thought Canada blew the game with a couple of bad decisions on offense.


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PostPosted: 01/08/18 2:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Looks like you all got this one covered...



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PostPosted: 01/08/18 3:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think right now there is a serious recruiting issue at UCLA. It's not an accident that the staff is now focusing out of the area. While there are now more talented players outside the Socal area than before, the fact that top local players and coaches are turning a blind eye to this staff isn't good. Trakh is more popular and USC may be a much bigger local recruiting threat than before. If the program passes UCLA within the next few seasons, which is definitely possible with Close at the helm, that becomes even more of a problem.

But is this staff simply chasing numbers instead of evaluating talent, potential and appropriateness? They didn't offer Amber Melgoza, who is tearing it up at UW this season and she often said UCLA was her dream school. They offered her a preferred walk-on and she wisely told them to take a hike. Even still, I would seriously doubt if she could have risen to the challenge as a bench player. She needed time to play, as grad transfer Paulina Hersler said and she's now in the midst of surpassing all her UCLA totals in a few months at Florida. Plum and Osahor were not offered but neither was Kelsey Minato or even a 3 point specialist like UCSB's Sarah Porter. But as it turns out, they all made the right decisions because I seriously doubt UCLA could have developed any of them the way their programs did.

Close has a middle of the Pac salary, which means she's paid what she's worth.


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PostPosted: 01/08/18 9:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
----------------------------------------------------
I wonder how Gilden got so far in the doghouse. I thought she used to give them some good minutes but she seems glued to the bench. Not impressed with malley.

Gildon is a tweener who was able to dominate her position in high school via her physical strength against smaller competition thus her #37 Hoopgurls rating. At her listed 6'1" in college her effectiveness depends on match ups. Against Miss. St her defensive liabilities were really exposed against Mc Cowan who scored most of her points off her 12 Offensive rebounds. Even though Gildon had Mcowan blocked out McC still had the height to not only reach over her for the rebound but also to score on the put back.
Gildons is the type of player who often hits their ceiling early in high school and ends up just being a back up in college on a team with a loaded roster. When Sabally came into the program she was pushed down the roster.

Mallory's for her height is not really that effective on the low block but when she is on the floor with Hebard she can play on the high post. She is often a liability on defense against quicker teams. She was in the starting line up because she is a good shooter from mid range and beyond. Which helps spread the floor. Once Sabally came into the picture it was inevitable that she would replace Mallory as a starter. Especially when Mallorys defensive liabilities and offensive limitations were exposed against Miss State.

Sabally is a better all round offensive player and far superior on defense. This is what I saw from her in the Jordan classic. Even though she only scored 3 points she impacted the game with her speed and quickness on the defensive end, so that the coaches started her in the second half. I tend to also notice the impact players have on the defensive end of the game.

I was glad to see Graves give Giomi some none junk time min at the end of the first half, even if it was just because of foul trouble on the other post players. She is not effective offensively but she covers a very large area on defense. She is very fast and can get from point A to point B very quickly. She can also run the floor and would have scored on a break away if Sabrina would not have overthrown that pass. I think if they ever have to face Baylor or Miss State they will have to use her to keep Brown or McCowan from killing them on the offensive glass. Giomi always puts a body against her man and with her height they wouldn't get all those offensive rebounds and put backs. She is also quick enough for help defense against drives. I certainly hope that is the reason Graves gave her those min. He has to realize that sometimes defense is more important than offense.


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