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BCBG25
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dtsnms
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CamrnCrz1974
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 Posted: 12/06/05 2:15 pm ::: |
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When I won WVGM, Fred Carter stayed at the same hotel. I remember talking to him about Elton...Fred usually sang his praises, and I thanked him for it. Fred confessed he thought Elton would be a bust as a 6-8 power forward, but he failed to recognize his length and soft hands...and nose for rebounding. Pretty big of Carter to admit he was wrong, especially because I had never previously heard him say those things (before he changed his tune).
Elton does not have a lot of flash to his game, which might hurt him in MVP ballots. And then there is the other non-flash player...TIMMY.
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Admiral_Needa
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BCBG25
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| Posted: 12/06/05 2:40 pm ::: |
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| The All-Star game selections have little to do with team records. Brand's problem was always the depth of the PF position in the West. He got overlooked because having Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Webber (back when he was happy with the Kings), Shawn Marion, Rasheed Wallace play the same position was and will always be competition enough. Let's see who will be the odd man out this year in the ASG. I'm betting it'll be Marion.
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Admiral_Needa
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| Posted: 12/06/05 2:58 pm ::: |
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| BCBG25 wrote: |
| The All-Star game selections have little to do with team records. Brand's problem was always the depth of the PF position in the West. He got overlooked because having Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Webber (back when he was happy with the Kings), Shawn Marion, Rasheed Wallace play the same position was and will always be competition enough. Let's see who will be the odd man out this year in the ASG. I'm betting it'll be Marion. |
Well when a team is doing well, it brings media publicity and fan attention to the star player, which helps pump up the votes and influence the coach's selection for the bench. Similarly, Marion probably won't make it because the Suns are rather mediocre this year, even though Marion has been putting up the same numbers as he did last year, ~20, 12, 2 and 2. 
The media mantra is that you're an All-Star if you make your team better. The Clippers have been a bad team for quite a while even though Brand has always been a good player. Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, and Chris Webber were all selected when their repective teams were doing well.
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BCBG25
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| Posted: 12/06/05 3:03 pm ::: |
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| Yes, media attention counts, but I still think the records are not as important. We're not talking awards. Vince Carter, Kobe, et al, will always be selected regardless of where they are playing. I think the depth of the position and limit on how many players you can pick for a given position have more influence on the coaches' selections. If there were no such limitations, it'd be a game of the West forwards against the East guards.
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harlem_basketball
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el_barrio_96_125
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| Posted: 12/07/05 9:44 am ::: |
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| harlem_basketball wrote: |
Might have been coming from church. Believe it or not, some of us can worship in under 8 hours unlike your girl. I go in, she's there. First service is over, I go out to eat, and she's still there. After this weekend, she might be in there til Monday morning.  |
LOL Church does seem to be an all day event with Spoon but at least she keeps her faith to herself. As for Becky, that doesn't explain the conductor's hat. As for Steph, why go to school when everyone will do the work for you? |
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el_barrio_96_125
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| Posted: 12/07/05 9:46 am ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
Harlem and FBC...
1) Where would you put late 1990s Gary Payton on the list?
2) Would you play Pippen at the point over many of today's NBA point guards? |
1) Only Stockton was better than Payton in the late 1990s.
2) I am a Knick fan so I hate Pippen. |
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el_barrio_96_125
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| Posted: 12/07/05 9:48 am ::: |
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| BCBG25 wrote: |
Talkin' 'bout Dukies, is Elton Brand a legit MVP candidate yet?
Wow, playing with I am Sam has totally changed his style. The Clippers are the best team in town now.  |
Elton has to be an MVP candidate. If he isn't, then there's something wrong. |
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el_barrio_96_125
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| Posted: 12/07/05 9:51 am ::: |
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| harlem_basketball wrote: |
| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| Elton does not have a lot of flash to his game, which might hurt him in MVP ballots. And then there is the other non-flash player...TIMMY. |
 There's only one Timmy and it ain't Duncan. |
Forgive him, for he knows not what he does. LOL Is that almost as blasphemous as calling Vince Carter Half Man, Half Amazing? |
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harlem_basketball
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Admiral_Needa
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Admiral_Needa
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el_barrio_96_125
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| Posted: 12/07/05 1:30 pm ::: |
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| harlem_basketball wrote: |
Calling Vince Half-Man Half-Amazing is a million times more blasphemous. One, Tim isn't even Headache's real first name but he is still the only Timmy as far as I and most of Harlem are concerned. Two, the real Half was known as Half-Man Half-Amazing long before Vince was even at Carolina. Kenny Smith should have been ashamed of himself for allowing and promoting Vince's use of the name. Of all people, Kenny should have known better.
What makes it really bad is that Vince came to Rucker and was scared to play Half. Half was like, we can play for the name. And1 even did the commercial with all the guys in the limo and Half calling Vince out. Vince knew Half would have embarassed him. Vince gave him his respect though once he heard about the original Half and started telling people who didn't know that he isn't the original Half and prefers Vinsanity. |
I remember that commercial. It was so funny because it used to always come on during a nationally televised Raptors game. LOL
Half was one of the few streetball players that played real fundamental basketball just as well as he did streetball. Half, Alimoe, Skip and Headache were the only guys with the original And 1 who even had an NBA type game. Main Event was always bitching about not getting his shot, but he's what, 6'4 with a power forward's game? He had no handle and his jumper was suspect, so that wouldn't have worked in the NBA. The rest of the guys with And 1 couldn't even beat the EBC who I always thought had the better players after their top 5 than And 1 did after their top 5. It shouldn't have happened the way it did since he helped start the whole thing, but in a way it's good Tim's no longer with And 1 because now the whole thing has become a commercialized joke. After the second tour and Volume 5, the whole movement started to suck. The streets don't even respect those guys anymore besides Half and Ali. |
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CamrnCrz1974
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| Posted: 12/07/05 1:45 pm ::: |
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| But what incentive did Vince have to play him? If he won, he may have more street cred, but he is in the NBA...arguably expected to do really well. If he lost, Vince's merchandise sales would have gone down.
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el_barrio_96_125
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| Posted: 12/07/05 2:09 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| But what incentive did Vince have to play him? If he won, he may have more street cred, but he is in the NBA...arguably expected to do really well. If he lost, Vince's merchandise sales would have gone down. |
It's so much bigger than that. |
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CamrnCrz1974
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| Posted: 12/07/05 2:37 pm ::: |
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FBC and Harlem_basketball:
1. Which female basketball players are Rucker regulars? Was Holdsclaw there? What about Cappie? I am assuming Epiphanny Prince has been there a few times...
2. Can you give me some more background on Tim...HS career, college, other background info on his playing days?
3. In your estimation, how does Telfair compare to the two other PGs in his year...Shaun Livingston and Darius Washington, Jr.?
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harlem_basketball
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| Posted: 12/07/05 3:03 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
| But what incentive did Vince have to play him? If he won, he may have more street cred, but he is in the NBA...arguably expected to do really well. If he lost, Vince's merchandise sales would have gone down. |
First Timmy, now this.
No one in Harlem cares about merchandise sales or believes NBA players are better or arguably expected to do well. There are more than a few guys who we all know are better than the best NBA players but will never be in the League. And there are many more who are better than 50% of the players in the League at their position.
It's not about street cred. Street cred is some media made nonsense. It's like neo-soul. No one in Harlem or any other "hood" is walking around talking about who has street cred. It doesn't make any sense. Spoon is the countriest person I've ever met and can walk through Harlem like a patron saint or like she grew up on 205th with some 54-11's and a supply of quarter waters, so street cred is nothing but a figment of someone's imagination. Probably someone who has none of whatever this street cred is supposed to be.
The purpose of a guy like Vince coming back to battle for his name was about him respecting the game and the rules of the game. Respecting the fact that Connie Hawkins had to play for the name Hawk. Fly Williams had to earn the name Fly. No one just annointed Earl as The Goat by saying, gee that sounds cool, ok, you're The Goat now. Dr. J earned that name. Headache didn't walk in a park one day and say, ok, my name is Headache.
Half-Man earned his nickname by doing shit that made him look like some kind of superhero. People weren't supposed to be able to do what he was doing. And this was without 3 Blind Mice to bail you out. You don't just "get" a nickname. You earn one. And just like you can earn one, you can lose one.
Vince couldn't go around milking the tradition of a nickname if he didn't earn it and wasn't the originator of it without playing for it. If he had no incentive, why come Uptown in the first place?
If he had lost, it wouldn't have really threw anyone since it's not like back then Half was a slouch. We expect NBA players to lose. Most times they're playing against men who have been playing on the same team together since they were kids. Half's teammates would have made sure he won and looked better than Vince if something was on the line.
Just like Vince's teammates were going to play their asses off and make him look good because they knew playing with Vince was going to give them some shine. If Vince had won, nobody was going out and buying some rinky dink Pumas. But how are you going to come Uptown and not even play the man whose name you're renting? That's like someone coming on here with the screenname, CamrnCrz1974b.
He should have done it for the same reason Dr. J battled Fly Williams all those times. For the same reason Kareem never hesitated to battle The Goat. For the same reason AI, Steph, and Kobe come out to battle Bone Collector, A-Butta and Homicide. Fans out here will not hesitate to tell you you suck. When Steph gets cut up by some cat without a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, he isn't Starbury anymore until he goes down the other end and returns the favor. You can't supposedly embrace this "street cred" thing and then be scared.
Guys like Kobe, Baron, and Gilbert can do no wrong in Harlem off of what they did at Rucker. Then, those games don't just stay in Harlem. You've got kids in Japan spending $50 for DVD's with shotty camera work just to watch what their favorite NBA player did at Rucker or Pro City.
Every brotha who makes his living on the asphalt thinks he's better than the brotha who made it. And every brotha who made it wants to prove that he not only is better and made it for a very good reason, he also wants to prove he didn't forget where he came from or where the revolutionaries of the game came from. That's why these NBA guys will break their necks trying to find out where the best runs are from NY to Chicago. These guys will hound me for months about getting them on a team or hooking them up with a coach and making sure the street league gets the proper documentation into the League before the deadline so he can play.
I'll give Vince credit for respecting his history though. Vince came to Rucker and got rained out so he ended up playing at the legendary and historic Gauchos Gym where he kinda did his thing. At least he gave more effort than he does for his employer.
Playing at Rucker and Gauchos isn't about selling your sneakers to kids in the "hood". It's about understanding that generations of great NBA and non NBA players played right there. Most, if not all NY born and bred current and former NBA and WNBA players would not be where they are without places like Rucker, Gauchos, Elmcor, Baisley, Soul in the Hole, W4th or Riverside Church.
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harlem_basketball
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| Posted: 12/07/05 3:24 pm ::: |
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| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
FBC and Harlem_basketball:
1. Which female basketball players are Rucker regulars? Was Holdsclaw there? What about Cappie? I am assuming Epiphanny Prince has been there a few times...
2. Can you give me some more background on Tim...HS career, college, other background info on his playing days?
3. In your estimation, how does Telfair compare to the two other PGs in his year...Shaun Livingston and Darius Washington, Jr.? |
1. Female basketball players were always bigger at W4th than Rucker. That's starting to change. Rucker has stepped their game up. No true high school ball player of he last 15 years from any of the big schools in the city has not played at Rucker or W4th. Some of those illegal immigrants* from CTK get away with it sometimes, but they even have a team of mostly CTK players.
Kia Vaughn and Epiphany Prince owned Rucker this year. Cappie was more W4th but I heard she was up at Rucker too. Matee Ajavon and all those other girls have done their thing. Niesha Butler kills everybody up at Rucker. I'm almost positive Mique played while she was at CTK.
A lot of WNBA players don't play up there because the season starts in June. But they're still cool with a lot of the players and coordinators of the tournaments. Spoon financially supports at least one of the tournaments and has always come to games all over the city since she came to NY.
Tamika Whitmore stroked a check for one league too I believe. Chelle plays with the Pro Am in their national tournament in Vegas but that's usually around April. Other players like the Liberty obviously come through. And the Sparks have always come through but they've got connections since a couple of their employees are from the area.
*illegal immigrants = players not from the 5 boroughs and CTK's penchant for poaching
Last edited by harlem_basketball on 12/07/05 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dtsnms
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| Posted: 12/07/05 3:25 pm ::: |
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| harlem_basketball wrote: |
| CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
FBC and Harlem_basketball:
1. Which female basketball players are Rucker regulars? Was Holdsclaw there? What about Cappie? I am assuming Epiphanny Prince has been there a few times...
2. Can you give me some more background on Tim...HS career, college, other background info on his playing days?
3. In your estimation, how does Telfair compare to the two other PGs in his year...Shaun Livingston and Darius Washington, Jr.? |
1. Female basketball players were always bigger at W4th than Rucker. That's starting to change. Rucker has stepped their game up. No true high school ball player of he last 15 years from any of the big schools in the city has not played at Rucker or W4th. Some of those illegal immigrants* from CTK get away with it sometimes, but they even have a team of mostly CTK players.
Kia Vaughn and Epiphany Prince owned Rucker this year. Cappie was more W4th but I heard she was up at Rucker too. Matee Ajavon and all those other girls have done their thing. Niesha Butler kills everybody up at Rucker. I'm almost positive Mique played while she was at CTK.
A lot of WNBA players don't play up there because the season starts in June. But they're still cool with a lot of the players and coordinators of the tournaments. Spoon financially supports at least one of the tournaments and has always come to games all over the city since she came to NY. Tamika Whitmore stroked a check for one league too I believe. Chelle plays with the Pro Am in their national tournament in Vegas but that's usually around April.
*illegal immigrants = players not from the 5 boroughs and CTK's penchant for poaching |
How about Tina Charles
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harlem_basketball
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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| Posted: 12/07/05 3:28 pm ::: |
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| dtsnms wrote: |
| How about Tina Charles |
She's a legend already.
It'd be much easier to name the scrubs that don't play. If a girl is from NY and she's not at some summer school Upstate, she's probably played at Rucker or W4th by her sophomore year.
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CamrnCrz1974
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| Posted: 12/07/05 3:37 pm ::: |
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| How does Telfair compare to the two other PGs in his year...Shaun Livingston and Darius Washington, Jr.?
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harlem_basketball
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| Posted: 12/07/05 4:15 pm ::: |
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2. Tim aka Headache aka Spoon's little brother, let's see.
Pops was a Globetrotter. Him and Spoon are as close as any blood brother and sister.
He played for legendary Manhattan Center High School in the mid 90's and averaged 18 points and 8 assists as one of the best defenders in the city. Started on a team where every position goes 3 deep with guys that can start anywhere else in the city.
He ended up going the JuCo route at the Fashion Institute of Technology, played 3 positions, averaged 15 points, 7 assists, 5 rebounds and 5 steals, got his A.A. Then he went to UW-Milwaulkee, played there for a while, got his B.A. and bounced because him and the coach hated each other.
Earned his rep playing at Rucker, EBC at Rucker, Dyckman, Pro City, Pro Am, 141st, W4th, BBC, Kingdome and every other spot in NY. He's 29 going on 30 pretty soon. I remember watching him play for the first time back when we were like 14. He's from that group of Marbury, Tinsley, Shamgod, Odom, Artest, Alston and all those other guys that grew up playing together. And one player who I have miserably failed to mention the late great Conrad McCrae
He's played for the Globetrotters, the USBL for half a second, played overseas to get his paper, helped start the And1 craze. Did the And1 tours for a while. Was one of the most popular players on the tour. Then questioned why the players were making a millifraction of what the company was getting off of the tours and tapes. Did that one too many times and left/got kicked off depending on who you believe.
Has his own team, Team Headache with some pretty good players. Does different shows/exhibition games with them when he feels like it. Does camps for kids, helps out a lot with the Manhattan Center girl's team. Wants to coach women. Jeff Van Gundy had him come to Houston to help Yao with his ball handling. Mark Jackson's one of his mentors. Helped Becky on her game a lot. Used to work with the Liberty players a lot. Always bigs up the WNBA, the Liberty and Spoon, even on the And1 shows. Has his own foundation for kids. Does a whole bunch of different things. One day you might see him with the Court Jesters, the next he might turn up on a USBL team, the next he's in Asia.
Runs with Czar Entertainment which is a bunch of guys who play ball, are cool with NBA players and put on various events and parties for athletes and entertainers.
Still widely considered one of the best one on one players and defenders in the city when he plays during the summer. Came in 3rd in the Knicks and McDonald's Last Man Standing Competition this past September at The Garden. Had a tryout off of a personal invite by Isiah with the Knicks in summer '04. Now does commercials for the Knicks, has a great relationship with Isiah. Friends with a lot of NBA and WNBA players. Everyone knows him. Loves attention. Loves to talk. Will play anyone, anywhere, anytime.
You'll hardly ever see him without Spoon. A lot of Liberty fans know him because of that. Thinks very highly of the women's game. Always has a hustle, you'll never see him broke. A real playground legend unlike a lot of these players coming up now that just annoint themselves.
So now you're asking, well shit if he's that good, why isn't he in the League?
His early chances were ruined by injuries. Got hurt before he could make an impression on Callhoun. Competed with his coach at Milwaulkee to see who could be the bigger prick.
Grew up eventually, had other chances, again injuries. Then he always ends up working out for teams that don't really need him but you take what you can get. Also, most teams aren't trying to sign a "streetball" guy. Skip and Tinsley both played for good programs so technically aren't "streetball" guys but they're the only 2 to make it from the streetball game.
I don't think he's given up on making the league but he understands the reality. He understands the politics and the fact that he didn't always do EXACTLY what he should have done, making the most of his opportunities. Unlike most of these guys he goes about his business and lives his life rather than wasting away waiting for the League to call. Uses his education and the contacts he's made and does his thing so he lives better than most of these other streetball legends. When he gets the itch, he goes overseas or to a semi pro league here in the States to play or does a show for kids in the south or midwest somewhere. A name WNBA fans should get to know.
Last edited by harlem_basketball on 12/07/05 4:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Right after signing his multi-year extension, he's averaging 9 points a game and couldn't even score more than 2 points against the Bobcats... The Warriors could easily be #1 in the division if he actually balled.