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Stephanie White (where are you?)

 
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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 12/24/17 1:07 pm    ::: Stephanie White (where are you?) Reply Reply with quote

Many said White was a gifted technical coach in the WNBA, who knew how to get a lot out of less than elite players on both offense and defense.

So far at Vanderbilt, she was 14-16 last season and has fizzled to a 3-10 record this season against mediocre teams, most recently getting crushed 111-74 by Belmont.

Does she have excuses? What?

She is a very good TV analyst.
LitePal



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PostPosted: 12/24/17 2:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

She also has Carolyn Peck with her. Take that whatever way you want.

I do think that White ticked off a lot of boxes and excited people but she has not yet delivered. She's only in her second season so she has time but you do start to wonder if college coaching is her thing, being she had no experience at that level when she was hired.


pilight



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PostPosted: 12/24/17 2:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I thought she was overrated as a WNBA coach. She had one good year after taking over a perennial playoff team only two years removed from a championship.



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Jlcarter



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PostPosted: 12/24/17 4:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The cubbar was bare when she got there.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 12/24/17 4:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

^^^This. The cupboard was bare, her team is very young (11 of 14 players are FR, SO, or transfer), she only got one ranked recruit last year, and only 2 for next year. I think the jury is out for another 3 years at least, until she gets some decent recruits of her own into her system with a couple years experience under their belts.


calbearman76



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PostPosted: 12/24/17 6:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
^^^This. The cupboard was bare, her team is very young (11 of 14 players are FR, SO, or transfer), she only got one ranked recruit last year, and only 2 for next year. I think the jury is out for another 3 years at least, until she gets some decent recruits of her own into her system with a couple years experience under their belts.


That is an awfully long leash for a program with as much history as Vandy. Taking a step backward in your second year is not a good sign. Neither is such a poor recruiting class with two big coaching names. I don't know how long her contract is, but if she can't find some top recruits soon I can't imagine her getting another one.


NoDakSt



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PostPosted: 12/24/17 7:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Some Speculation on the Vandy 14 Powers board was this hire was done to diffuse a potential Balcomb discrimination suit. Not certain the truth of that.

There isn't a lot of experience on the team so ejecting White likely to happen. But maybe she needs to get in some new assistant coaches. Cheek is supposed to be an excellent recruiter but cN she recruit to a culture like Vandy? Peck has more Miss than hit in my estimation and should have stayed on sidelines.

I'll be surprised if they win more than 2-3 games in SEC. also would expect some transfers out of the program because it doesn't appear the team is having fun.



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bucks4now



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PostPosted: 12/24/17 9:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was very disappointed when Joy Cheek left OSU for Vandy. She was the lead recruiter for us and I think Lewis and McCoy might have stayed if she stayed. I'm surprised that she hasn't been able to bring in better talent.


purduefanatic



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PostPosted: 12/26/17 9:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
Taking a step backward in your second year is not a good sign.


Not true at all. In fact, you kind of expect a step backwards in year 2. The first year, there is a lot of renewed excitement, everything is fresh, etc. In year 2, it doesn't have all that excitement, the coach barely had time to recruit so the recruiting class probably isn't strong and kind of thrown together, you are likely to get a player or 2 that wants to transfer out, etc. Year 2 is definitely the toughest when taking over a program.

By the way, I'm not saying that because of Purdue & Stephanie. I am saying that from a perspective of having been a coach. The 2nd year is by far the toughest. I'm also not one that was on the "Purdue needs to hire Stephanie White" bandwagon. She is a great person but not sure the college coaching gig is right for her.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 12/26/17 2:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

See the second note in my sig line. Stephanie is only in her second year. Of course things look like they're going backwards. She has to sweep out the detritus (look that up in your Funk & Wagnall's!) left from Balcomb first.

PS. I don't love Vandy. I'm a Tennessee fan. But I do respect Steph. Give the girl a break.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 12/26/17 3:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Look at the top coaches in their second year compared to their first. Almost all of them had improved records in their second season, some of them dramatically improved.

Dawn Staley went from 10-18 to 14-15 in her second season at South Carolina. Muffet McGraw went from 21-11 to 23-6 (including a perfect conference record). Kim Mulkey went from 21-9 to 27-6. Brenda Frese went from 10-18 to 18-13. Geno Auriemma went from 12-15 to 14-13. Jeff Walz look Louisville to the national finals in his second season. Vic Schaefer went from 13-17 to 22-14. Karen Aston went from 12-18 to 22-12. Kelly Graves went from 13-17 to 24-11. Cori Close went from 14-16 to 26-8. Kevin McGuff went from 17-18 to 24-11.

There are a few who took a small step back in year two. I haven't found any good coaches whose teams regressed significantly in the coach's second season.



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Howee



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PostPosted: 12/26/17 7:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Look at the top coaches in their second year compared to their first. Almost all of them had improved records in their second season, some of them dramatically improved.

Dawn Staley went from 10-18 to 14-15 in her second season at South Carolina. Muffet McGraw went from 21-11 to 23-6 (including a perfect conference record). Kim Mulkey went from 21-9 to 27-6. Brenda Frese went from 10-18 to 18-13.....

This is a little bit like comparing Apples to .... Bananas.

Okay. Let's just take Dawn, for example. Her first 2 seasons at SC were bust, especially within conference. It took seven years for her to get to the FF. AND SHE CAME FROM A (mostly) STELLAR 8-YEAR CAMPAIGN AS HEAD COACH AT TEMPLE. How many people on your list of comparison were in THEIR FIRST COLLEGIATE HEAD COACHING POSITION?

There are so many layers to what creates success in this milieu. And there's a range of People:Backgrounds:Long Range Success stories. You have everything from the likes of Sherri Coale, who went from coaching High School to coaching a NC contender at Oklahoma, on down to Cynthia Cooper, who excelled as a player at all levels, and was given ample opportunities at multiple places to demonstrate her coaching talent in a P
5 conference, with no stellar success. I'm thinking Steph is somewhere in between those 2 extremes, with probably more fuel to be successful than not.

I'm not necessarily a Steph fan, nor a Vandy fan, but....hellz bells....I wouldn't cut her outta the future just yet!



Razz



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pilight



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PostPosted: 12/26/17 8:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
pilight wrote:
Look at the top coaches in their second year compared to their first. Almost all of them had improved records in their second season, some of them dramatically improved.

Dawn Staley went from 10-18 to 14-15 in her second season at South Carolina. Muffet McGraw went from 21-11 to 23-6 (including a perfect conference record). Kim Mulkey went from 21-9 to 27-6. Brenda Frese went from 10-18 to 18-13.....

This is a little bit like comparing Apples to .... Bananas.

Okay. Let's just take Dawn, for example. Her first 2 seasons at SC were bust, especially within conference. It took seven years for her to get to the FF. AND SHE CAME FROM A (mostly) STELLAR 8-YEAR CAMPAIGN AS HEAD COACH AT TEMPLE. How many people on your list of comparison were in THEIR FIRST COLLEGIATE HEAD COACHING POSITION?


Auriemma, Walz, and Schaefer were all on their first head coaching jobs. Major conference schools are less apt to hire women who don't have prior head coaching experience to take the top job.

Staley took over a program in much worse shape than the one White got. Vandy went 18-14 in Balcomb's last season and made the NCAA's in 12 of her 14 seasons. Staley took over a moribund Gamecock program that had only two NCAA appearances in 11 seasons under Susan Walvius.

Quote:
There are so many layers to what creates success in this milieu. And there's a range of People:Backgrounds:Long Range Success stories. You have everything from the likes of Sherri Coale, who went from coaching High School to coaching a NC contender at Oklahoma, on down to Cynthia Cooper, who excelled as a player at all levels, and was given ample opportunities at multiple places to demonstrate her coaching talent in a P
5 conference, with no stellar success. I'm thinking Steph is somewhere in between those 2 extremes, with probably more fuel to be successful than not.


Coale's record also improved in her second season at Oklahoma. Cooper at USC, not so much. I still haven't found a coach with a large second season drop off who went on to be successful at a major.



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 12/26/17 9:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The point I made about her second year is not just about her record. Certainly one would hope the record would improve, or at least be roughly comparable. But the problems at Vanderbilt seem to run deep and don't seem to be improving. First, while it is true she is a first time DI head coach, she was a head coach in the WNBA. She also brought in two assistants with strong backgrounds including one with prior major college head coaching experience and another with major college recruiting experience. They were in place by May, 2016 so they had time to establish their regime for last season.

Last season they had a very young team, a result of the cupboard being left bare, but this season, with their 4 leading scorers back, the team went 3-10 non-conference vs 10-3 last season. And while they did play a tougher schedule this season they were only 1-4 vs power 5 teams and 3-6 vs others.

Stephanie White is only the fourth coach at Vandy since 1980-1. The other three coaches were all there more than 10 years. And she will almost certainly tie the record for most losing seasons (2) and become the first coach to win fewer than 11 games. That is not a good start.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 12/26/17 10:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Vandy also has what might be called the “Stanford problem” in that they can’t hand out scholarships to just any good athlete...they alsohave to meet Vandy’s rather rigorous entrance requirements. So there’s that. Not making excuses, just pointing out facts.



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Howee



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PostPosted: 12/26/17 11:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Howee wrote:
pilight wrote:
Look at the top coaches in their second year compared to their first. Almost all of them had improved records in their second season, some of them dramatically improved.

Dawn Staley went from 10-18 to 14-15 in her second season at South Carolina. Muffet McGraw went from 21-11 to 23-6 (including a perfect conference record). Kim Mulkey went from 21-9 to 27-6. Brenda Frese went from 10-18 to 18-13.....

This is a little bit like comparing Apples to .... Bananas.

Okay. Let's just take Dawn, for example. Her first 2 seasons at SC were bust, especially within conference. It took seven years for her to get to the FF. AND SHE CAME FROM A (mostly) STELLAR 8-YEAR CAMPAIGN AS HEAD COACH AT TEMPLE. How many people on your list of comparison were in THEIR FIRST COLLEGIATE HEAD COACHING POSITION?


Auriemma, Walz, and Schaefer were all on their first head coaching jobs. Major conference schools are less apt to hire women who don't have prior head coaching experience to take the top job.

Staley took over a program in much worse shape than the one White got. Vandy went 18-14 in Balcomb's last season and made the NCAA's in 12 of her 14 seasons. Staley took over a moribund Gamecock program that had only two NCAA appearances in 11 seasons under Susan Walvius.

Quote:
There are so many layers to what creates success in this milieu. And there's a range of People:Backgrounds:Long Range Success stories. You have everything from the likes of Sherri Coale, who went from coaching High School to coaching a NC contender at Oklahoma, on down to Cynthia Cooper, who excelled as a player at all levels, and was given ample opportunities at multiple places to demonstrate her coaching talent in a P5 conference, with no stellar success. I'm thinking Steph is somewhere in between those 2 extremes, with probably more fuel to be successful than not.


Coale's record also improved in her second season at Oklahoma. Cooper at USC, not so much. I still haven't found a coach with a large second season drop off who went on to be successful at a major.


....and all these points/counterpoints can be hashed ad infinitum, BUTTTT....Vandy's current season might turn out decent, improved even (?)...as there's a lot to go. And then, maybe a late recruitment coup, and voila! Bright Horizons suddenly become believable.

Debating the hypothetical particulars of such a situation quickly reaches the point of being an exercise in futility. Tho data trends may *imply* the warning, a stinky second season is not necessarily the Divine Oracle of Doom. Cool



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bucks4now



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PostPosted: 12/27/17 3:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

True, but Stephanie and Peck were both at Purdue and Joy Cheek was at Duke, so understanding the type of player they need should not be a problem. Plus the past coaches didn't have that problem.



summertime blues wrote:
Vandy also has what might be called the “Stanford problem” in that they can’t hand out scholarships to just any good athlete...they alsohave to meet Vandy’s rather rigorous entrance requirements. So there’s that. Not making excuses, just pointing out facts.


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PostPosted: 12/27/17 12:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

On a sidebar....the only time I've been to Nashville was during the 2014 FF. A bunch of us were given a quick tour of Vanderbilt by friendly espn board poster Vandywhit. (I've always wanted to stand on that whacked raised basketball court). Laughing

Given the general vibe of the Nashville area, I don't understand why more talented athletes don't land at VU. Seems like a relatively easy sell to me.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 12/27/17 1:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bucks4now wrote:
True, but Stephanie and Peck were both at Purdue and Joy Cheek was at Duke, so understanding the type of player they need should not be a problem. Plus the past coaches didn't have that problem.



summertime blues wrote:
Vandy also has what might be called the “Stanford problem” in that they can’t hand out scholarships to just any good athlete...they alsohave to meet Vandy’s rather rigorous entrance requirements. So there’s that. Not making excuses, just pointing out facts.


Didn't they? Vandy has never been a top destination for top players regardless if they could meet entrance requirements. Why that is, is obviously up for debate. Balcomb's system is not White's system so getting the right players for a totally different philosophy takes time. At any rate a program needs to gain momentum in order to attract top players. Plus who wants to wear ugly grey unis? (trying to think like an 18 year old here)

Quote:
“It was a very structured system, and ours is a little bit different,” White said. “You don’t change that mentality overnight. So we are just giving our players the freedom to understand that they can use their instincts.”
from http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/college/vanderbilt/2017/10/20/vanderbilt-womens-basketball-stephanie-white-robotic/780555001/


calbearman76



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PostPosted: 12/27/17 4:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I checked and she was given a six year contract. That gives her some time, but Vandy can't become a perennial bottom tier SEC team, let alone the second best team in Nashville.


Howee



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PostPosted: 12/27/17 5:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
....Plus who wants to wear ugly grey unis? (trying to think like an 18 year old here)


Lordy, Myrtle. After the Bloomers you sported back in the day, those grey unis are a Godsend. Laughing But really....don't half the schools these days do "ugly grey unis" for their home stands?? The silly trends....



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mzonefan



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PostPosted: 01/06/18 10:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/college/vanderbilt/2018/01/05/whats-wrong-vanderbilt-womens-basketball-tennessee-lady-vols-stephanie-white-sec/1001266001/


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