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stever
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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 Posted: 02/02/18 12:25 pm ::: |
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| bless her. respect.
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SO ...I lost a bet with Rock about how many wins Chicago would get this year. My punishment - T. Young as my avatar. Well it could be worse!
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 02/02/18 12:28 pm ::: |
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| And at the same time, they announce Tiffany Mitchell added to the Team USA pool.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 02/02/18 12:34 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| And at the same time, they announce Tiffany Mitchell added to the Team USA pool. |
The Dawn Effect has begun .
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mavcarter
Joined: 02 Sep 2010
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| Posted: 02/02/18 12:58 pm ::: |
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| Good, it's about time for a new PG to be integrated for USA.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 02/02/18 1:08 pm ::: |
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| Now Bird needs to also step aside.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 02/02/18 1:12 pm ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
| Now Bird needs to also step aside. |
We need a veteran PG to show the new kids the ropes of international play. Otherwise they might run crying off the court when they get pressured by mighty Uruguay.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 02/02/18 1:16 pm ::: |
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| Diggins must be doing back flips today.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 02/02/18 1:18 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| Now Bird needs to also step aside. |
We need a veteran PG to show the new kids the ropes of international play. Otherwise they might run crying off the court when they get pressured by mighty Uruguay. |
Don't be silly. Uruguay didn't qualify for the Worlds. |
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 02/02/18 1:47 pm ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
| Now Bird needs to also step aside. |
along with Mone and DT.
_________________
“Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud.”
― Maya Angelou
SO ...I lost a bet with Rock about how many wins Chicago would get this year. My punishment - T. Young as my avatar. Well it could be worse!
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 02/02/18 1:49 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| Now Bird needs to also step aside. |
along with Mone and DT. |
Agreed .
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 02/02/18 2:13 pm ::: |
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| Different people have different needs, which shouldn’t be established by anyone other than themselves.
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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| Posted: 02/02/18 2:47 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| Now Bird needs to also step aside. |
along with Mone and DT. |
I wouldn't be surprised by either.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 02/02/18 3:28 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| Different people have different needs, which shouldn’t be established by anyone other than themselves. |
Since USA basketball doesn't have the balls to let the aged move on gracefully, it's left to the players to do the right thing. Whalen did the right thing.
_________________
“Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud.”
― Maya Angelou
SO ...I lost a bet with Rock about how many wins Chicago would get this year. My punishment - T. Young as my avatar. Well it could be worse!
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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| Posted: 02/02/18 3:40 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| Different people have different needs, which shouldn’t be established by anyone other than themselves. |
Since USA basketball doesn't have the balls to let the aged move on gracefully, it's left to the players to do the right thing. Whalen did the right thing. |
Tbh if Bird and Taurasi would retire right now aswell and this team would be lead by Diggins and Gray then i could see them having a 2006 slipup in the semi's or finals
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Last edited by Michelle89 on 02/02/18 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 02/02/18 3:48 pm ::: |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| Different people have different needs, which shouldn’t be established by anyone other than themselves. |
Since USA basketball doesn't have the balls to let the aged move on gracefully, it's left to the players to do the right thing. Whalen did the right thing. |
Tbh if Bird and Taurasi would retire right now aswell and this lead would be lead by Diggins and Gray then i could see them having a 2006 slipup in the semi's or finals |
Whalen could have played in Worlds, but she couldn’t see herself making it to the 2020 Olympics. So she figured she’d give a newer player the opportunity in the less important Worlds so they’d be better prepared for 2020.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 02/02/18 8:15 pm ::: |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| Different people have different needs, which shouldn’t be established by anyone other than themselves. |
Since USA basketball doesn't have the balls to let the aged move on gracefully, it's left to the players to do the right thing. Whalen did the right thing. |
Tbh if Bird and Taurasi would retire right now aswell and this team would be lead by Diggins and Gray then i could see them having a 2006 slipup in the semi's or finals |
There are a ton of players to "lead" the team that would not require newbies to assume the role.
Losing DT, Bird, and Augustus for younger, better players would only make the team less likely to have a "slipup".
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 02/02/18 10:12 pm ::: |
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| I'd be fine with Bird on the 2018 team, but either or both of Taurasi & Augustus need to also retire from team USA.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 02/03/18 1:49 pm ::: |
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They can retire when they want to.
No one pushed Dawn to retire when she clearly should have.
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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| Posted: 02/03/18 3:43 pm ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| Different people have different needs, which shouldn’t be established by anyone other than themselves. |
Since USA basketball doesn't have the balls to let the aged move on gracefully, it's left to the players to do the right thing. Whalen did the right thing. |
Tbh if Bird and Taurasi would retire right now aswell and this team would be lead by Diggins and Gray then i could see them having a 2006 slipup in the semi's or finals |
There are a ton of players to "lead" the team that would not require newbies to assume the role.
Losing DT, Bird, and Augustus for younger, better players would only make the team less likely to have a "slipup". |
You underestimate the role of true PG's and how their leadership can effect a team. Who is going to lead this team? Maya? Charles?
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"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
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miller40
Joined: 29 Jun 2006
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| Posted: 02/03/18 6:53 pm ::: |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| Different people have different needs, which shouldn’t be established by anyone other than themselves. |
Since USA basketball doesn't have the balls to let the aged move on gracefully, it's left to the players to do the right thing. Whalen did the right thing. |
Tbh if Bird and Taurasi would retire right now aswell and this team would be lead by Diggins and Gray then i could see them having a 2006 slipup in the semi's or finals |
There are a ton of players to "lead" the team that would not require newbies to assume the role.
Losing DT, Bird, and Augustus for younger, better players would only make the team less likely to have a "slipup". |
You underestimate the role of true PG's and how their leadership can effect a team. Who is going to lead this team? Maya? Charles? |
Why couldn't Maya? She's a leader.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 57516
Location: Where the action is
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| Posted: 02/03/18 7:09 pm ::: |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
| You underestimate the role of true PG's and how their leadership can effect a team. Who is going to lead this team? Maya? Charles? |
You underestimate the leadership ability of some of the younger PGs
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Don't take no rhythm,
Don't take no style
Gotta thirst for killin',
Grab your vial
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 02/03/18 7:44 pm ::: |
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I'd be happy with this line-up for 2018:
PG: Bird/Diggins/CGray
SG: Taurasi/Sims or Loyd
SF: Moore/Delle Donne
PF: Charles/NOgwumike/Stewart
C: Fowles/Griner
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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Location: Holland
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| Posted: 02/04/18 6:45 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| You underestimate the role of true PG's and how their leadership can effect a team. Who is going to lead this team? Maya? Charles? |
You underestimate the leadership ability of some of the younger PGs |
I am? Sims and Gray are not even (the vocal) leaders of their own teams let alone lead a team full of players who are better then them and have more weight on the team and league. Only player that has experience of leading her team is Diggins and this would be her first time with USA in a big tournament and i first have to see how the team will respond to her before thinking that all goes well
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"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 7070
Location: Northfield, MN
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| Posted: 02/04/18 5:23 pm ::: |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| You underestimate the role of true PG's and how their leadership can effect a team. Who is going to lead this team? Maya? Charles? |
You underestimate the leadership ability of some of the younger PGs |
I am? Sims and Gray are not even (the vocal) leaders of their own teams let alone lead a team full of players who are better then them and have more weight on the team and league. Only player that has experience of leading her team is Diggins and this would be her first time with USA in a big tournament and i first have to see how the team will respond to her before thinking that all goes well |
The PG needs to be an on the floor leader as far as keeping play moving smoothly, but there is no need for them to be the "vocal leader" of the team as long as another player fills that role. And with players like Nneka and Maya on the team, it will be well served in that area.
Both Gray and Diggens are more than capable of being a floor general.
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justintyme
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| Posted: 02/04/18 5:24 pm ::: |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| You underestimate the role of true PG's and how their leadership can effect a team. Who is going to lead this team? Maya? Charles? |
You underestimate the leadership ability of some of the younger PGs |
I am? Sims and Gray are not even (the vocal) leaders of their own teams let alone lead a team full of players who are better then them and have more weight on the team and league. Only player that has experience of leading her team is Diggins and this would be her first time with USA in a big tournament and i first have to see how the team will respond to her before thinking that all goes well |
The PG needs to be an on the floor leader as far as keeping play moving smoothly, but there is no need for them to be the "vocal leader" of the team as long as another player fills that role. And with players like Nneka and Maya on the team, it will be well served in that area.
Both Gray and Diggens are more than capable of being a floor general.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 02/04/18 5:31 pm ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
Both Gray and Diggins are more than capable of being a floor general. |
Neither have senior-level international experience. As backups, fine.
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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| Posted: 02/04/18 5:39 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
I'd be happy with this line-up for 2018:
PG: Bird/Diggins/CGray
SG: Taurasi/Sims or Loyd
SF: Moore/Delle Donne
PF: Charles/NOgwumike/Stewart
C: Fowles/Griner |
Sims is not a SG she is a PG and better defender than Gray, plus Loyd doesn't pass.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 02/04/18 6:13 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
Both Gray and Diggins are more than capable of being a floor general. |
Neither have senior-level international experience. As backups, fine. |
So? That is really not a necessity for this team. Plus one will get this during the upcoming worlds.
The idea that we need over-the-hill players instead of significantly better younger players just doesn't make sense.
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Luuuc
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 02/04/18 7:28 pm ::: |
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To me it's a balance between what is best to win right now, vs what is best as preparation for the future. Personally I think it would be wise to keep Bird if she's healthy enough, because losing both her & Whalen at the same time is pretty extreme change. Retaining Bird for a while would smooth the transition and I think that has real value when it's someone of her calibre.
But then if you take a moment to consider who you're going to be playing against, it quickly becomes apparent that you can pick whoever the heck you want because who out there is going to remotely challenge you? And then the politics kick in, because they can, virtually without consequence.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 02/04/18 7:46 pm ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
| But then if you take a moment to consider who you're going to be playing against, it quickly becomes apparent that you can pick whoever the heck you want because who out there is going to remotely challenge you? And then the politics kick in, because they can, virtually without consequence. |
Probably true, but also probably exactly what they were thinking 12 years ago... |
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Luuuc
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 02/04/18 8:10 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| Luuuc wrote: |
| But then if you take a moment to consider who you're going to be playing against, it quickly becomes apparent that you can pick whoever the heck you want because who out there is going to remotely challenge you? And then the politics kick in, because they can, virtually without consequence. |
Probably true, but also probably exactly what they were thinking 12 years ago... |
True, but IMO the gap (between USA & the next best team) is significantly wider today than back then. I also get the impression that the Americans (in particular, but probably true of most countries) care a lot less about the Worlds than the Olympics. Now that there's an extended winning streak maybe the care factor is higher to keep extending it.
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
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| Posted: 02/04/18 8:26 pm ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
The PG needs to be an on the floor leader as far as keeping play moving smoothly, but there is no need for them to be the "vocal leader" of the team as long as another player fills that role. And with players like Nneka and Maya on the team, it will be well served in that area.
Both Gray and Diggens are more than capable of being a floor general. |
Exactly! Bird was the starting point guard in 08, but the vocal leaders of the team were La Leslie, Tina Thompson, and Katie Smith. Not to mention Kara Lawson outplayed Bird for significant stretches during that Olympic run.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 02/04/18 10:03 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
Both Gray and Diggins are more than capable of being a floor general. |
Neither have senior-level international experience. As backups, fine. |
| justintyme wrote: |
| So? That is really not a necessity for this team. |
I gotta believe most reasonable people would disagree with this. Those at USAB will definitely disagree.
| justintyme wrote: |
| Plus one will get this during the upcoming worlds. |
Maybe they both can... just not as starters.
| justintyme wrote: |
| The idea that we need over-the-hill players instead of significantly better younger players just doesn't make sense. |
You’re a fan of the oldest team in the WNBA (at least they were last year). Do you think Whalen should be immediately replaced?
I guess now that Whalen has retired from USAB, “better player” in Team USA is defined by youth over experience.
How old is Tom Brady? The Patriots had Jimmy Garoppolo as a starter quality backup and got rid of him. The Patriots win all the time, but I guess they don’t make sense.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 02/04/18 10:42 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
You’re a fan of the oldest team in the WNBA (at least they were last year). Do you think Whalen should be immediately replaced? |
If they could replace her with a player that was younger and better? Hell yeah. I love Whalen, but you got to put together the best team you can.
But as far as I know there are no UFAs that fit that discription.
| Quote: |
| How old is Tom Brady? The Patriots had Jimmy Garoppolo as a starter quality backup and got rid of him. The Patriots win all the time, but I guess they don’t make sense. |
Terrible example for your point. Brady went to Kraft and demanded they trade Garoppolo and commit to him for the next few years. Belichick was furious as he saw Jimmy as the future. This will likely bite NE in the butt going forward as Garoppolo becomes a star and Brady regresses.
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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| Posted: 02/05/18 5:28 pm ::: |
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| justintyme wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| You underestimate the role of true PG's and how their leadership can effect a team. Who is going to lead this team? Maya? Charles? |
You underestimate the leadership ability of some of the younger PGs |
I am? Sims and Gray are not even (the vocal) leaders of their own teams let alone lead a team full of players who are better then them and have more weight on the team and league. Only player that has experience of leading her team is Diggins and this would be her first time with USA in a big tournament and i first have to see how the team will respond to her before thinking that all goes well |
The PG needs to be an on the floor leader as far as keeping play moving smoothly, but there is no need for them to be the "vocal leader" of the team as long as another player fills that role. And with players like Nneka and Maya on the team, it will be well served in that area.
Both Gray and Diggens are more than capable of being a floor general. |
If we go by that then its maybe even less of a fit because Diggins, Gray and Sims all look first for their own opportunities before involving their teammates while Bird and Whalen are pass first pointguards.
Nneka the vocal leader? She might not even be on the team  The best players on this team are not really true leaders or have big personalities to keep everybody in check like LLL, Thompson, Smith did in the past.
Maya will lead by example but Charles, Fowles, EDD, Griner, Stewart are no leaders..
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"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
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pilight
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Michelle89
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mavcarter
Joined: 02 Sep 2010
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| Posted: 02/06/18 10:15 am ::: |
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| I think people really underestimate how players can adapt and change their games for the greater good of USA. Yes, the PG position has adopted a score first, pass second mentality for a while but it's not like it's impossible for these players to change.
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Nixtreefan
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 02/06/18 12:58 pm ::: |
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| mavcarter wrote: |
| Yes, the PG position has adopted a score first, pass second mentality for a while but it's not like it's impossible for these players to change. |
If you saw Dawn Staley in college you would never have described her as a pass-first player
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Don't take no rhythm,
Don't take no style
Gotta thirst for killin',
Grab your vial
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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| Posted: 02/06/18 1:37 pm ::: |
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| I believe she explained that and said she had to change.
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 02/06/18 4:09 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
I'd be happy with this line-up for 2018:
PG: Bird/Diggins/CGray
SG: Taurasi/Sims or Loyd
SF: Moore/Delle Donne
PF: Charles/NOgwumike/Stewart
C: Fowles/Griner |
I'm with you. Barring injuries, this would be an ideal roster. Would say Loyd over Sims at the 2 - and you have the 1 covered here with Gray, Diggins and Bird.
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Howee
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